Thursday, 2015-12-17

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tortoisedocis today THE day?07:47
iekkumeeting, yes07:48
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tortoisedocis Antti going to be there? :)08:03
* tortoisedoc has the nagger cap on08:04
tortoisedoccoderus invited Antti Saarnio to join the meeting via twitter and apparently he accepted?08:11
* tortoisedoc pokes coderus08:11
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Armadillotortoisedoc why THE day?08:30
Armadilloany important things I missed the last days?08:30
tortoisedocArmadillo :  <tortoisedoc> coderus invited Antti Saarnio to join the meeting via twitter and apparently he accepted?08:32
Armadillook and he has important news to tell us?08:33
ArmadilloI hope my internet connection in the train will be stable enough to participate08:34
tortoisedocArmadillo : I have no idea :/08:34
Armadilloah ok :D08:34
tortoisedocthat's what I would like to know too :P08:34
tortoisedoctime will tell I guess08:35
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coderuswhat the time of meeting?10:03
coderushope i can visit it myself..10:03
kimmolicoderus: /topic10:04
coderussame time, oay10:05
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tortoisedoccoderus : if not, pass your questions here so we can ask them :P10:35
coderusjust same what i asked in last meeting :D10:36
tortoisedoccoderus : do you think antti will attend?10:37
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coderusi think no10:49
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kimmoliwhat are the odds?10:54
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ApBBB_odds of?11:00
kimmoliof antti attending11:05
tbrjust for curiosity/fun, someone™ should ask about the taobao sightings.11:06
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ApBBB_slim i guess. and i don't mind tbh as long as he sorts out the financial stuff11:07
Stskeepstbr: someone did on twitter11:09
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Stskeepsalbeit a bit of a non-answer11:09
ApBBB_if he had no idea this happened up to that point (or shortly before) what did you expect in 140 characters?11:10
tbrwell, by the time the meeting rolls around 12h will have passed. maybe they saw something while "looking into this"11:11
ApBBB_you seem to forget that the world around isn't moving in internet speeds11:11
tbrofc given their transparency track record, I wouldn't expect any further comment11:11
Stskeepsspooky: i went to subway (sandwiches) earlier today; now youtube shows me a subway commercial..11:12
ApBBB_i haven't seen a youtube ad in ages. don't you use an adblocker or something?11:12
tortoisedocStskeeps : lol you paid with your card or cash?11:13
Stskeepsno, i hate ads but i also prefer seeing the internet for what it is11:13
ApBBB_internet = content so this is why i use adblock plus11:13
Stskeepsit makes me able to bitch about it better11:14
ApBBB_consensual abuse :P11:15
ApBBB_tbr: don't be like that. i don't know what kind of level of transparency you expect but at the end of the day they are a company. and it their decision to what they will do11:17
Stskeeps(though tbr has a point)11:18
tbrApBBB_: I'd prefer to give you a coherent counter argument, but I can't stop laughing.11:20
ApBBB_once you stop laughing i'd like to hear it11:20
ApBBB_and to be more clear my comment wasn't about the tablet but for the whole "lack of transparency" comments i read about jolla11:22
tbrmaybe let's just say, that given how often jolla has promised and emphasized transparency, while subsequently failing either mostly or completely. Expectations have to be adjusted.11:22
M4rtinKone can see it also from the other side - why should people from the community care ?11:23
M4rtinKmany of them backed the tablet or want to contribute11:24
M4rtinKignoring that makes it more likely that the (remaining...) community members will find something else to do11:25
ApBBB_What jolla says doesn't matter to me at all. Its your problem if you believe whatever is thrown at you. And personally i am not here about the FOSS or the transparency. Is because i really like Sailfish.11:25
tortoisedocwell FOSS from a company does not imply full disclosure on strategy and business aspects, does it?11:30
tortoisedocI mean they GPL their code, not the company11:31
M4rtinKsure, but the expectations need to be set accordingly11:35
M4rtinKlot of #doing-it-together, #co-creation, #unlike & #soon does not help a lot there11:36
M4rtinKespecially if followed by lack of communication11:36
tortoisedocI agree on the kickstarter things should have been more clear11:38
M4rtinKAFAIK there has still not been an official update for campaign backers for example11:39
ApBBB_while i don't know how jolla works internally i suspect the lack of communication comes from them having too much on their plates. I cant expect someone working/coding 8-10 hours a day having the energy to do community related stuff Could be wrong though.11:40
M4rtinKwell, one can kinda expect it now11:40
tbrApBBB_: yes, but then they can't go and set the expectation in a way that people do expect community interaction11:40
M4rtinKbut the communication was quite bad even before the current crisis11:41
ApBBB_that was their mistake i agree11:41
tbrIt's pretty obvious that they were overworked and understaffed for at least a year by now, probably forever11:41
M4rtinK(and one can argue the crisis might not have happened if communication was better handled)11:41
tbrstill they chose their priorities, while not making sure to readjust people's expectations11:41
M4rtinKeven "screw you, we are overworked" would work I guess11:42
M4rtinKrather than silence or "soon"11:42
tbras the saying goes: you can't have the cake and eat it too11:42
M4rtinKwell, you kinda have it once you eat it :)11:42
kimmolifor a while11:43
tbrafter which it might just become an IoT tweet11:43
ApBBB_am i the only one that thinks that IoT is a canser about to spread :/11:45
daithefluM4rtinK: cannot agree more11:47
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pavi95 users + a bot , whats the maximum this channel has seen ?12:31
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Tofemerbot: ^12:32
merbotTofe: Error: "^" is not a valid command.12:32
Smarbad bot12:34
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merbotkimmoli: On #mer-meeting there have been 96143 messages, containing 2790307 characters, 426570 words, 3879 smileys, and 5422 frowns; 753 of those messages were ACTIONs.  There have been 44750 joins, 978 parts, 43500 quits, 3 kicks, 344 mode changes, and 1849 topic changes.  There are currently 99 users and the channel has peaked at 134 users.12:44
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JollaTgBotERROR: No chat_id set! Add me to a Telegram group and say hi so I can find your group's chat_id!12:51
toxipconfiguring telegram relay, don't mind me12:51
JollaTgBotERROR: No chat_id set! Add me to a Telegram group and say hi so I can find your group's chat_id!12:51
JollaTgBotJollaIrcBot was added by: toxip12:52
toxipso people can follow on telegram12:52
Nicd-that is not a good idea12:52
toxipmade a separate group12:52
Nicd-if they can talk this way12:52
JollaTgBot<toxip>: test12:52
Nicd-if it's one-way IRC -> telegram then I don't mind12:52
toxipoh, it seems to work fine on this channel o.O12:53
toxiptwo ways12:53
toxiphow weird12:53
SmarNicd-: why it would be bad?12:53
M4rtinKyeah, I think it should be fine12:53
Nicd-Smar: they cannot use the commands for example12:53
Smarcommands like KICK, BAN, KICKBAN and so on?12:54
M4rtinKwe can always kick the bot it it starts acting funny12:54
Nicd-no, like #info12:54
Nicd-meeting commands12:54
toxipcan they?12:54
SmarNicd-: I can’t use them either12:54
JollaTgBot<toxip>: #info12:54
Smarsince I know nothing about them :P12:54
toxiptrue that12:54
M4rtinKthe meeting is not on12:54
Nicd-they are explained at the start usually12:54
SmarI’m just reading them, so I don’t want to butt in to them :)12:54
M4rtinKthe command can only be used once the meeting has been started12:54
Nicd-I am talking about when the meeting is on. users also cannot tab complete the telegram users and following the conversation will be more difficult since all messages come from JollaTgBot12:56
SmarNicd-: is that better than those people not participating at all?12:56
Nicd-using a web chat interface is not difficult. if they wish to just listen they can also read the notes later12:57
SmarI’m at least too lazy to do any effort, like installing telegram, for it ;)12:57
toxipI think it just good for people to follow the conversation even if they're not participating12:58
toxipif they want to participate they would probably join the IRC anyway12:58
Nicd-that's why I said I would not mind a one-way connection :P12:58
coderusno tgbot here plz12:59
coderusyou can join irc or read meeting log after12:59
coderus if you dont have irc client13:00
toxipok, find out why it was only one way13:01
toxipso now I can make it one-way13:01
toxipwell, seems like one-way connection13:01
toxipdepends on the name13:02
toxipif you change the name of the group it stops working13:02
toxipyeah, it's one-way now :)13:03
toxipit's probably for the better :)13:03
toxipI wanted to make it one-way so people could follow it more easily.13:05
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r0kk3rztoxip: i understand what you're trying to do, but i dont think this is the place for experiments13:20
c-laHi, corporate proxy blocks freenode, typing from jphone13:21
c-laOne hour to go, right ?13:21
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toxipr0kk3rz: it's not really an experiment since I've done the experiments on #jollafanclub already :P13:22
daithefluc-la:  yep13:23
pavir0kk3rz: all experiments are finished and what we have is a stable version of the bot which just relays one way to a telegram channel13:23
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toxipI will take full responsibility on the bot, I promise it won't cause any trouble13:28
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c-laWhat app do you suggest me for irc on jolla ?13:37
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ApBBB_there is an irc client on the store or openrepos13:37
dirkvlno antti yet13:37
toxipthe one on the store is pretty good13:37
c-laDon't see it on warehouse tho13:38
c-laOk, I'm gonna try it13:38
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ApBBB_its also on the store13:40
ApBBB_search > irc13:40
urjamanApBBB_: he left13:40
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ApBBB_at least we tgot him covered13:40
toxipbest client on jolla is ssh to shell and use irssi from command line lol13:41
toxipjust because you can13:41
paviApBBB_: coincidentally I was posting an old review
paviI really <3 this app, it makes IRC such a pleasant experience.13:42
Nicd-toxip: would be better to use weechat then ;)13:42
urjamanthe sailfish irc isnt that bad, but yeah ... i prefer a shell13:42
urjamanit is pretty atleast13:42
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c-la_I have to wait for the c-la session time out13:43
toxipI think telegram would work as an irc replacement13:43
toxiptg has bot support and everything13:44
toxiponly thing is that you need a phone number13:44
urjamanc-la_: c-la already left13:44
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toxipjust left when you joined13:44
urjamanoh but maybe didnt quit ..13:44
Nicd-it has quit13:45
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toxipc-la_: why don't you use chanserv? you can always take back your nick with it13:45
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c-la_don't know about nickserv13:47
pavic-la_:  type this  /msg Nickserv help register13:48
c-la_but freenode on login said that c-la was already in use13:48
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urjamanand start with the / ...13:48
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c-la_will do it once c-la comes back available13:50
urjamanit should be13:51
urjamanjust /nick c-la13:51
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kimmolitg to replace irc? O_o13:58
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c-laurjaman: thank you13:59
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M4rtinKkimmoli: not likely :P14:02
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M4rtinKat least as long as their servers are not open source & can be self hosted14:03
M4rtinKwhich AFAIK is still not the case14:03
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Antoninohi all14:03
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c-lawhat's the difference in using telegram instead, say, xmpp? just asking14:15
Aciidis Antti coming?14:15
dirkvlno idea14:15
Aciid(saw this on IRC a while ago)14:15
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urjamanthat was right after(/during?) the last meeting14:17
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dirkvlwell, lets see14:19
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c-ladirkvl: well done14:20
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daitheflugood job coderus :)14:22
SfietKonstantinWnot missing the meeting this time14:23
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daithefluhi SfietKonstantinW o/14:23
iekkuSfietKonstantinW, you forgot last week too due day change?14:24
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SfietKonstantinWiekku: more due to work14:24
paviWho is the chair for the meeting ?14:25
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chem|stpavi: cybette is14:25
chrisx2dswhat didi I miss~ :D14:26
merbotpavi: On #mer-meeting there have been 96323 messages, containing 2795361 characters, 427486 words, 3890 smileys, and 5428 frowns; 753 of those messages were ACTIONs.  There have been 44798 joins, 979 parts, 43515 quits, 3 kicks, 344 mode changes, and 1849 topic changes.  There are currently 131 users and the channel has peaked at 134 users.14:26
cccpeakeGood to "see" ya, cybette o/14:26
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cybetteStskeeps: can you op me please?14:26
iekkuSfietKonstantinW, well. that's better reason than mine (forgot day change)14:26
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o cybette14:26
cybettecccpeake: you too \o14:27
Stskeepscybette: done, sadly i have to go personally14:27
cybetteStskeeps: thanks, ok, maybe next time :)14:27
dr_gogeta86god bless  kiwiirc14:28
cybetteif Antti joins, i'll move the Jolla (+tablet) status topic up so we can get his responses as soon as possible (also it's late in HK)14:28
cybette4 more min14:29
dr_gogeta86got some serius problems with ssh today14:29
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kimmoli4 mins?14:29
cybettesorry wrong clock14:29
cybettenow we start14:30
cybette#startmeeting SailfishOS, open source, collaboration: 17-Dec @ 14:30 UTC14:30
merbotMeeting started Thu Dec 17 14:30:12 2015 UTC.  The chair is cybette. Information about MeetBot at
merbotUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.14:30
*** merbot changes topic to " (Meeting topic: SailfishOS, open source, collaboration: 17-Dec @ 14:30 UTC)"14:30
cybette#info Welcome to another week of SailfishOS OSS and collaboration meeting14:30
cybette#info Meeting info and agenda:
cybetteI'm the meeting chair for today and will be keeping time and order. Please behave and show mutual respect, and let's have a productive discussion!14:30
cybetteWe also have a full agenda today so I will be keeping very strict time. Kindly cooperate and stay on topic.14:30
cybette#topic Brief introductions (5 min), prefix your information with #info14:30
*** merbot changes topic to "Brief introductions (5 min), prefix your information with #info (Meeting topic: SailfishOS, open source, collaboration: 17-Dec @ 14:30 UTC)"14:30
coderus#info Andrey Kozhevnikov, community coderus14:30
kimmoli#info Kimmo Lindholm, Community .....14:30
Tofe#info Christophe Chapuis, Community member14:30
chem|st#info Rüdiger Schiller, Maemo Community e.V. Board14:30
cybette#info Carol Chen, community member, hatless meeting chair today14:30
SfietKonstantinW#info Lucien Xu community SfietKonstantinW14:30
dr_gogeta86#info Fabio Isgrò, community ...14:30
eugenio#info Eugenio Paolantonio, community member14:31
urjaman#info Urja Rannikko, community14:31
ced117#info Cedric Heintz, community member14:31
iekku#info Iekku Pylkk, community member14:31
stephg#info Steph Gosling, community14:31
daitheflu#info François, Community14:31
pavi#info pavi community member14:31
dirkvl# Dirk van Leersum, community14:31
c-la#info Claudio Campeggi, community member14:31
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dirkvl#info Dirk van Leersum, community14:31
SfietKonstantinWhello veskuh_ !14:31
JvD__#info Tommi Keisala, community14:31
tathhu#info Tatu, community & low on battery14:31
nodevel#info Jakub Kozisek, community member14:31
eekkelund#info Eetu Kahelin, community14:31
r0kk3rz#info Lewis Rockliffe, community14:31
Copernicus#info John Pietrzak, community member14:31
fravaccaro#info fravaccaro, community14:31
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Fellfrosch#info Fellfrosch, community14:32
veskuh_#info Vesa-Matti Hartikainen, SW Program manager, Jolla14:32
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moofang#info Lim Yuen Hoe, community14:32
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kimmolitathhu: it is bad for your lithiums14:32
Nokius_work#info Julius-Paul Jann, community14:32
rainemak#info Raine Mkelinen, SW Engineer, Jolla14:32
jlassila#info Juhani Lassila, Head of Communications, Jolla14:32
cybettehi AnttiSaarnio !14:32
pketo#info Pami Ketolainen, backend dev @ Jolla14:32
c-laI'm at work, pls be patient as I type on jphone and doing stuff14:32
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AnttiSaarnioHello Everybody!14:32
chrisx2ds #info ChrisNg, community fans~14:33
wazdAnttiSaarnio: hello14:33
ced117hello AnttiSaarnio :-)14:33
daithefluHi o/14:33
cccpeake#info Chris Peake, customer care @ Jolla14:33
dr_gogeta86hi AnttiSaarnio14:33
*** cybette sets mode: +vvvv veskuh_ rainemak jlassila AnttiSaarnio14:33
eekkelundHi AnttiSaarnio14:33
dirkvlparty has started!14:33
fravaccaroHello Antti!14:33
tortoisedoc#info tortoisedoc Developer & community supporter14:33
c-laAnttiSaarnio: nice to see you here14:33
tortoisedocHello Antti!14:33
M4rtinK#info Martin Kolman, community member, modRana developer14:33
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chrisx2ds#info Chris Ng, community fans~14:33
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dirkvlHello to Antti, but also to everyone else, you are all beautiful peoplez14:33
dirkvlso much luvv wow14:34
cybetteAnttiSaarnio: we'll have couple more minutes of introductions, and then we'll get to topic :)14:34
ced117hello dirkvl ;-)14:34
cfb014#info Carmen Fdez.14:34
wazd# info Andrew Zhilin, community member, TOHKBD and stuff14:34
kimmoliwazd: no spaces14:34
wazd#info Andrew Zhilin, community member, TOHKBD and stuff14:34
ced117tohkbd <314:34
coderuswow, so much peoples today, cheers everyone :)14:34
chrisx2dsHello all, I can feel the Wave~14:34
spatialbitshi all!14:34
iekkunice to see so many sailors here today, as well as so many community members14:34
toxxip#info Topias Vainio, jollafanclub telegram group founder14:34
pdanek#info Peter Danek, community member14:35
daithefludirkvl: are you high ? :P14:35
iekkucoderus, indeed14:35
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tortoisedocdeserves an awesome soundtrack14:35
chrisx2dsHigh 5~14:35
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chem|stdaitheflu: he is always high14:35
cybettealright! let's get to the first topic (moving it up as mentioned before meeting)14:35
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ced117nsuffys o/14:35
cybette#topic Status update on the delivery of Jolla Tablets + general Jolla status - Antti Saarnio (10 min)14:35
*** merbot changes topic to "Status update on the delivery of Jolla Tablets + general Jolla status - Antti Saarnio (10 min) (Meeting topic: SailfishOS, open source, collaboration: 17-Dec @ 14:30 UTC)"14:35
ApBBB_Antti brings all the boys to the yard14:35
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nsuffysHi all :)14:35
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cybetteAnttiSaarnio: please take the irc 'stage' and share with us current status :)14:36
AnttiSaarnioOk, Thank you.14:36
AnttiSaarnioAnd thanks for inviting me here14:36
JoshStrobl#info Joshua Strobl, community14:36
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dirkvlcue suspensefull music14:37
AnttiSaarnioI have quite good news, some of those I can share today, but as we need to inform media and community and customers on equal bases, most of the information will come tomorrow14:37
c-laAnttiSaarnio: can't wait..14:38
chrisx2dsWoooHoooooo~!! :D14:38
AnttiSaarnioWe are just preparing a blog update to be sent out tomorrow, where most of the new information will be14:38
cfb014Great news!!!14:38
TofeThat's already news :)14:38
tortoisedocwait for it..14:38
paviPlease share whatever you can , the community is waiting to hear something.14:38
AnttiSaarnioSo here are the news :)14:38
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ced117*Jolla song in the background* :-D14:38
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tortoisedocAntti : can you share some details?14:39
tortoisedoc(minor ones?)14:39
kimmoliPATIENCE YOU MUST HAVE my young padawan14:39
chem|stpavi: he already got me with "good news"14:39
cybetteeveryone, let Antti speak :)14:39
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tathhuIRC needs something like "Antti is typing..."14:39
chrisx2dsThe boat is sailing higher and higher :D14:39
fravaccaro@cybette looks like there's some excitement in the air xD14:39
AnttiSaarnioWe have received financing to continue Sailfish OS development from our investors. THIS means that reports about Jolla's death are greatly exaggerated :)14:40
SfietKonstantinWare the news good, or like super good news14:40
SfietKonstantinWsuper good news :)14:40
ced117Great :-D14:40
wazdAnttiSaarnio: congratulations14:40
JoshStroblThat is fantastic news14:40
Naranekcongrats :)14:40
TofeNow he has to kill us all so news doesn't spread too early :p14:40
c-laAnttiSaarnio: by what time should we expect the news to be out?14:40
nsuffysNiiiiiice <314:40
dr_gogeta86wait  ....14:40
fravaccaroThat sounds AWESOME! Congrats!14:40
ced117Time to party !14:40
chrisx2dsmy christmas wish granded :D14:40
dr_gogeta86isn't so awesome14:40
nodevelThis is amazing!14:40
AnttiSaarnioYes, it is truly Christmas :)14:41
r0kk3rzgood work AnttiSaarnio!14:41
cybette#info Jolla has received financing to continue the development of Sailfish OS. More info on the news will be shared in blog post tomorrow. Merry Christmas :)14:41
ced117good work everyone !14:41
JoshStroblAnttiSaarnio, will details about the financing be available in the blog tomorrow?14:41
daithefluchampagne !14:41
dr_gogeta86the rockstars gone ....14:41
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chem|stAnttiSaarnio: Congrats! Good job!14:41
tortoisedocAnttiSaarnio : no funds to complete tablets yet?14:41
M4rtinKcool! that should make many things much easier, at least in short to medium term14:41
TofeI'm bringing a big wine bottle to Finland right away :p14:41
c-laAnttiSaarnio: so, will the laid off staff be hired back full time?14:42
nodevelAnttiSaarnio: Congrats! Does it affect tablets as well, or just SailfishOS?14:42
cybetteAnttiSaarnio: could you comment on the delivery of Jolla Tablets, or it's too early in the process to say for now?14:42
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AnttiSaarnioIts early to share details about the financing yet, and might be that we can't share all because of confidentiality matter. But we will share what we can14:42
* nsuffys kiss all Jolla Team <314:42
ApBBB_c-la: some already got jobs elsewere14:42
M4rtinKbut lessons learned should still be applied - so that more crises like this can be avoided in the future14:42
yestoallare there any strings attached to this financing, like a new strategic direction?14:42
tortoisedocM4rtinK +114:42
c-laApBBB_: yeah but not all ;)14:42
chrisx2ds<3 to Jolla TEAM14:42
daithefluM4rtinK: +114:42
cybette3 more min14:43
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AnttiSaarnioThis financing troubles have of course impacted the company and we need to repair the ship, but most important thing is that Sailfish OS work will contineu14:43
SfietKonstantinWM4rtinK: +114:43
wazdAnttiSaarnio: If it is possible, can you please clarify current satus for the Jolla Adventures program?14:43
nodevelM4artinK: this14:43
AnttiSaarnioAbout tablets then14:43
* tortoisedoc braces for impact14:43
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AnttiSaarnioWe only got the financing confirmed yesterday, and we are now busy analysing different alternatives what to do with TabletGate14:44
tortoisedocTabletGate :D14:44
* kimmoli plays smashup of loveboat and jaws14:44
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cybette#info Regarding tablets, as the financing was only confirmed yesterday, Jolla is now analysing alternatives for "TabletGate"14:45
JoshStroblAny comments on the alleged Jolla Tablets being available on third-party marketplaces?14:45
c-laand laid off staff?14:45
AnttiSaarnioWe will have a board meeting after Christmas which is to decide between alternatives.14:45
r0kk3rzAnttiSaarnio: there were some reports of Jolla Tablets surfacing on TaoBao being sold with Android 4.4. Can you comment on this?14:45
tortoisedocAnttiSaarnio : can you share the alternatives?14:45
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paviAnttiSaarnio: Could we know something about the Intex deal and when would the new phone come out in India?14:45
cybette(extending topic for 5 more minutes in this exceptional circumstance :))14:46
tdb-Or at least tell what's the worst case for tablet backers?14:46
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JoshStroblcybette, <314:46
tortoisedoctdb- I think worst case scenario is obvious14:47
AnttiSaarnioOptions are: refunding or to continue with tablets, but then even more delays are to be expected.14:47
coderusAnttiSaarnio: was tablets produced and stuck on factory/warehouse?14:47
tortoisedocmore relevant, what are the chances for best-case scenario14:47
AnttiSaarnioIts a tough call.14:47
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cybetteAnttiSaarnio: recap of questions: Jolla tablets on taobao, what's the status of Jolla Adventures, what about the Intex deal? If you can answer some of them.14:47
TylerTempThere are two kinds of Jolla tablet on Taobao, one is Android-pre-installed, one is Sailfish OS pre-installed. Any info about this?14:47
tortoisedocbut not imposible :)14:47
AnttiSaarnioIntex project will continue, we have confirmed that yesterday and there will be new Sailfish phone coming.14:48
* tortoisedoc decided to skip doubles to type faster14:48
TylerTempThe salers all says it's from factory14:48
rpiwaperfect news!14:48
ced117yay :-)14:48
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cybette#info Intex project will continue, there is confirmation yesterday that new Sailfish OS phone will be coming14:48
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Myrttiohai cybette14:48
cybettehai Myrtti :)14:48
dr_gogeta86AnttiSaarnio: with this round ... how much will last ?14:48
coderusTylerTemp: android tablet is more likely black Aigo X86, sailfishos tablet should be confirmed first.14:49
ApBBB_this thing happening here today is like an apple event in the jobs days in a way. at least feels somehow like this14:49
pdanekDoes it mean that Intex project was frozen for few weeks due to financing issues? So it will continue now, but with some delay to original plan?14:49
AnttiSaarnioyes, nothing to do with Jolla, but it seems that our production partner from China started selling some tables which were already produced and in their stock. We are discussing with them that they would stop sales immeadiately14:49
cybette2 more min, and we continue with other topics (6 more today)14:49
daithefluOk, I propose to officially rename AnttiSaarnio to Santa Saarnio14:49
iekkudaitheflu, :D +114:49
dr_gogeta86AnttiSaarnio: you need to gain our trust14:49
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tortoisedocdaitheflu +10 .D14:50
tdb-tortoisedoc: What I'm interesting in is whether there's an option to deliberately screw the tablet backers.  Of course new unforeseen issues may arise.14:50
dr_gogeta86Is remarkable what are you doing ...14:50
JoshStrobldr_gogeta86, he never lost mine14:50
AnttiSaarnioThe financing is solid, but we are still very tight. Important is that big partners are starting to support us in China, India and Russia14:50
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cybette#info Sales of Jolla tablets on taobao has nothing to do with Jolla. The production partner in China had stock and they stated selling them, Jolla is discussing with them to stop sales immediately.14:50
ced117+1 JoshStrobl14:50
dr_gogeta86but honestly ... from the outside ... too many worg things happened14:50
coderusAnttiSaarnio: so, tablets really exists? Is there any option to pay extra to actually receive our tablets?14:50
ced117excellent news14:51
r0kk3rzAnttiSaarnio: given that the hardware partner is doing this without jollas permission, isnt there a legal problem with them selling jolla branded hardware?14:51
cybetteAnttiSaarnio: please share any last thoughts in the next minute :)14:51
chrisx2dsAnttiSaarnio: thank you so much , Captain14:51
tortoisedoccoderus +1; id be willing to fund to get my favourite tablet :)14:51
Aciidso is "premium shipping" and processing the VAT responses manually the thing were stuck on now?14:51
tdb-r0kk3rz: When has that ever stopped the Chinese?14:51
ApBBB_probably what is being sold is from the preliminary batch and not a full batch of tablets14:51
AnttiSaarnioSo final words: Force awakens :)14:52
JoshStroblAnttiSaarnio, I assume part of the evaluation is determining if Tablet development would continue to push Jolla into the red? As it has been.14:52
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TofeAnttiSaarnio: if tomorrow's blog post could contain some statement about open-sourcing status (has it been discussed, what timeline to expect, etc), that would be great.14:52
cybetteeveryone, for more detailed questions, let's open a topic on TJC after the meeting. and also wait for the blog post tomorrow14:52
r0kk3rzAnttiSaarnio: Thank you for accepting the communities invitation today, its much appreciated :)14:52
cybette#info Antti has spoken: The Force Awakens :)14:52
ced117thank you for all the informations AnttiSaarnio :-)14:52
dirkvlnoting about jolla adventures?14:52
stephgr0kk3rz: +114:52
c-ladirkvl: +114:52
paviAnttiSaarnio: Thanks a lot for the news. You have given us lot of information. We would wait for the blog post.14:53
iekkur0kk3rz, +114:53
eugeniothank you indeed14:53
cfb014+1 r0kk3rz14:53
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JoshStrobl+1 cybette and thank you AnttiSaarnio for answering the community's questions. Glad Jolla is continuining to practice one of it's core values of transparency.14:53
cybetteWe have to move on to other topics14:53
Nokius_workthanks AnttiSaarnio for the words14:53
tortoisedocAnttiSaarnio +1000 amazing news14:53
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cybetteAnttiSaarnio: THANK YOU for joining us and I hope we see you more in future meetings :)14:53
Aciidthis went a lot more smoothly than i thought, thanks Antti for sticking with the community14:53
JoshStrobl*continuing (fixing my spelling mistake :P)14:53
daithefluThank you AnttiSaarnio14:53
cybettebig thanks to AnttiSaarnio and let's move to next topic!14:53
coderusthank you Antti, at least you said much more than we can expect today14:53
AnttiSaarnioThank you all for trusting and supporting us!14:53
ced117thanks again AnttiSaarnio :-)14:54
cybette#topic Bluetooth tethering re-introduction - c-la/moofang (10 min)14:54
*** merbot changes topic to "Bluetooth tethering re-introduction - c-la/moofang (10 min) (Meeting topic: SailfishOS, open source, collaboration: 17-Dec @ 14:30 UTC)"14:54
Sailor11073Thanks for the info AnttiSaarnio14:54
Tofecybette: good luck to keep the excitement at the same level :p14:54
cybette#info With 1.1.7 update bluetooth tethering got disabled, probably by mistake by an undetected regression. Discussion about the effort needed to restore it in next SFOS release.14:54
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wazdAnttiSaarnio: Nothing specific about Jolla Adventures? It's kinda important for us14:54
cybetteTofe: haha, I know14:54
c-laany comment about it from a sailor?14:54
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AnttiSaarnioWill come back to Jolla Adventures on other time, ok14:54
Antoninoi will try to spread jilla and sf2 even more at the university, thank you AnttiSaarnio14:54
cybetteJolla sailors, please refer to topic and comment if you can14:55
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c-lacybette: I'm asking for a comment from a sailor about it14:55
nodevelAnttiSaarnio: Thank you for joining and good luck!14:55
veskuh_Support for bluetooth got broken when fixing connman/BT bootup14:56
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fravaccaro@Antti can you confirm the Intex partnership is going on?14:56
cybettec-la: I know, I Was just repeating your request :)14:56
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tortoisedocfravaccaro see log14:56
cybettefravaccaro: topic has changed, please stay on topic14:56
veskuh_Due to the complexity of connman codebase no solution was discovered14:56
fravaccaroops sorry my pc completely stuck and had to reboot14:56
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c-laeven today's feature phones have bt tethering, I think it's important to have it on jolla even if few users use it14:56
veskuh_and unfortunately our developer specializing to that area is no longer working for Jolla14:56
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ApBBB_connman seems to be the biggest POS of SW ever written14:57
tortoisedocApBBB_ : you mean Piece of SW right14:57
cybette#info Support for bluetooth was broken when fixing connman/BT bootup, and due to the complexity of connman codebase, no solution has been found14:57
veskuh_so I don't have an estimate on the effort for fixing14:57
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c-laany solution?  maybe developing an spp with bluez libs to do bt tethering?14:57
c-laspp = app14:58
coderusfravaccaro: 19:48 <+AnttiSaarnio> Intex project will continue, we have confirmed that yesterday and there will be new Sailfish phone coming.14:58
javispedrodo I suspect it is because connman required bluez5?14:58
moofanghmm, so we're not sure exactly what's wrong with it14:58
stephgveskuh_: is it being tracked internally14:58
fravaccarothanks coderus :)14:58
cybette#info unfortunately the developer specializing in the area is no longer with Jolla, so there's no ETA for fix14:58
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moofangis there an upstream project we can try to hit up to help us out? connman or mer or something14:59
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veskuh_stephg: its tracked and I could paste the comment to somewhere to be seen14:59
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moofangor yeah might it be practical to skip connman and build BT tethering separately?14:59
urjamanhire me :P, actually no i dont know connman, but yeah i'd like to have bt tethering work (and i like bt)14:59
javispedrowell, let me guess what's up14:59
javispedroConnman probably now requires bluez515:00
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tortoisedocveskuh_ : is code opensource?15:00
javispedrobluez5 on jolla is a shitload of work15:00
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veskuh_so that's the last comment from the internal bug15:00
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tortoisedocveskuh_ if the code is out there, community could help in fixing it15:00
cybette#link Comment from internal bug
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cybette3 more min15:01
veskuh_tortoisedoc: yeah, I haven't checked but I'm pretty sure all components related are OSS15:01
ced117yep, i think they are15:01
tortoisedocveskuh_ ok but also available in mer / nemo repos?15:01
urjamantortoisedoc: there's liks to github mer in that comment15:01
stephgit seems to me that this needs to go through the normal procedures and should have been flagged in tjc or complained via the normal 'workflow' at least for sfos15:02
urjamanso i guess yes (maybe no longer in github, but anyways in mer)15:02
veskuh_tortoisedoc: yes, all OSS mw we use is there15:02
stephgwhether that workflow is still right and/or if there are people to do the work is another question15:02
ced117here you go tortoisedoc15:02
rainemaknow-a-days connman repo is:
rainemakpastebin has old one15:03
tortoisedocso perhaps it woul dbe great to get a pointer where to look into15:03
tortoisedochuh Intel corp15:03
* tortoisedoc shrugs15:03
tortoisedoc3vil! 3vil15:03
cybetteplease wrap up15:04
cybetteok next topic (also BT related)15:04
M4rtinKwhat about using NetworkManager instead ? ;-)15:04
c-laso can we help somehow?15:04
cybette#topic Inclusion of Bluetooth LE libraries - c-la (10 min)15:04
*** merbot changes topic to "Inclusion of Bluetooth LE libraries - c-la (10 min) (Meeting topic: SailfishOS, open source, collaboration: 17-Dec @ 14:30 UTC)"15:04
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cybette#info the needed libraries useful to use BTLE (QtBluetooth 5.4) have been backported to jolla kernel few months ago, some harbour apps have them included in their app.15:04
cybette#info Discussion about the possibility to have them included in SFOS. BTLE support is necessary to use some new wearables and headphones with Jolla.15:04
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c-laany comment from a sailor?15:05
moofangveskuh_: thanks for the input on this (bt tethering)15:05
veskuh_So Bijjal's and Rainisto's comments on the first TJC link are still valid15:05
veskuh_We'd need to to do non-trivial amount of work, a lot of testing and possibly reapply bluetooth certification for existing devices15:06
veskuh_I don't see this happening in near term15:06
tortoisedocM4rtinK : NetworkManager is glibc right?=15:06
tortoisedoc(or also eglibc?)15:06
chrisx2dsI wonder will it fix the issue on android layer as well?15:07
cybette#info bijjal and rainisto's comments in here are still valid
c-laveskuh_: well no because there are stable Qt15:07
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c-lathere weren't at that time15:07
r0kk3rzredoing certifications :/15:07
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cybette#info The amount of work is non-trivial, with a lot of testing and possibly reapplying bluetooth certification for existing devices.15:08
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veskuh_c-la: yes we have cherrypicked some modules from newer Qt versions and at some point we do need to update Qt too.15:09
c-lais reapply for certification needed? you don't have to claim official btle support but just provide proper software environment to develop on15:09
ApBBB_veskuh_: probably after 5.6?15:09
cybette5 more min15:09
veskuh_c-la: That has been my understanding that it is needed when upgrading BT stack15:09
urjamanumm... but what is still stack and what isnt?15:10
c-laif you claim official support in the specs I guess15:10
c-laif you don't you don't need to imho15:11
r0kk3rzc-la: significant changes will likely invalidate the current certification15:11
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javispedrothe thing is, there are many ways to do this15:11
javispedroand at least one of them doesn't even touch the existing stack15:11
c-lathis is an addon, an additional feature, isn't it?15:11
javispedrono program on the stock firmware uses qtbluetooth fwiw15:11
cybette2 min left15:11
urjamanif i read the intro properly, you dont need to touch bluez or the kernel to do this, so...15:12
javispedrothat is correct, and people have been backporting qtbl 5.4 on their own15:12
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c-laurjaman: yep, my opinion is the same15:12
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javispedronothing from jolla actually uses qtbl15:13
javispedroso backporting it from 5.4 won't break anything (TM)15:13
javispedro(except 3rd party devs)15:13
c-laI suggest veskuh_ looks if new BT certification is actually needed an have this topic for next meeting15:13
javispedro(and those outside harbour only, since qtbl is not allowed on harbour iirc)15:13
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veskuh_Good points, sounds like possibility. We do need to study this more and obviously resources are still quite tight.15:14
M4rtinKyeah, if people are actually doing this now - does it not break the certification already ?15:14
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M4rtinKeq. fox out of the bag15:14
cybette#info Need more study on this keeping in mind that resources are still quite tight15:14
cybettemoving on!!15:14
javispedro(I have to ponder however if these "limited resources" would be better spent on upgrading Qt)15:14
merbotcoderus: Error: "!" is not a valid command.15:14
cybette#topic Email client bug when opening a draft no text - c-la (10 min)15:14
*** merbot changes topic to "Email client bug when opening a draft no text - c-la (10 min) (Meeting topic: SailfishOS, open source, collaboration: 17-Dec @ 14:30 UTC)"15:14
c-lalol coderus15:15
cybette#info there is a longtime bug in the email client: when opening a draft the email has no text (body) even if there is text. The first words of the body are shown in the email preview when viewing drafts folder,15:15
cybette#info but the text of the body is not copied in the email. This makes editing and sending an email "on the fly" impossible on jolla.15:15
cybette#info request estimation about time needed to fix it and its inclusion in future SFOS release15:15
c-lathis one should be a quick fix, especially for Vdvsx15:15
kimmoliis this a bug triade?15:15
ApBBB_vdvdsx os not with jolla anymore i think15:15
cybettekimmoli: seems like it :-/15:15
stephgkimmoli: appears not15:16
c-laApBBB_: thx didn't know15:16
* cybette needs to consider meeting topic guidelines15:16
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cybetteany comments on this email client issue?15:16
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veskuh_I did not find internal bug for this yet, will file if there isn't any.15:16
stephgcybette: +1 about the guidelines15:16
dr_gogeta86have some problem too even with attacchments ...15:17
dr_gogeta86sometimes are missing15:17
ApBBB_file bugs in TJC15:17
c-lakimmoli: how else can we get in touch with sailors about long standing issues like these? open to suggestions15:17
javispedroaaaand more reason to have more access to the internal bugzilla15:17
chem|stcybette: info on certification of BT well ok, but general bug discussion?15:17
mhall119c-la: #sailfishos ?15:17
urjamani dont mind having a community <-> jolla bug talk meetings...15:17
dr_gogeta86veskuh_: I've got a mail with strange problem got attach but i can't see it on sailfish15:17
cybette#action veskuh_ to check internal bugzilla for this and will file bug if there isn't existing one15:17
ApBBB_sailors usually get them from there and file them internally. However given they are low on resources things might take time15:17
cybettechem|st: yeap, thinking same15:18
stephgc-la: more or less what ApBBB_ said15:18
c-laveskuh_: thx.15:18
c-lacybette: we can move on, I'm okay15:18
cybette#action cybette to come up with clearer guidelines for proposing topics to the community collaboration meeting15:18
cybettec-la: ok thanks :)15:19
M4rtinKI don't think bug triage should be excluded from these meetings15:19
c-lasorry if I misbehaved15:19
javispedrome neither, since this literally fulfilled the intended purpose15:19
stephgc-la: you didn't :)15:19
r0kk3rzstarting to get offtopic guys.....15:19
M4rtinKat least until there are separate regular bug triage meeting established15:19
mhall119M4rtinK: bug triaging really shouldn't wait for weekly meetings15:19
ApBBB_we should at least discuss of a way of streamlining community bugs and submissions15:19
cybetteperhaps there could be a separate triage meeting for bugs for those interested/involved15:19
M4rtinKmhall119: definitely15:19
c-laurjaman: that sounds like a good idea15:19
cybettec-la: you didnt :)15:19
cybettebut yes, let's take this off the meeting15:20
cybettelet's carry on15:20
stephgcybette: jinx! lol etc.15:20
cybette#topic Status of SDL2 support & SDL2 apps in Harbor - MartinK (10 min)15:20
*** merbot changes topic to "Status of SDL2 support & SDL2 apps in Harbor - MartinK (10 min) (Meeting topic: SailfishOS, open source, collaboration: 17-Dec @ 14:30 UTC)"15:20
cybette#info Even though the SDL2 multimedia library has been allowed for Harbor applications since January 2015, it seems to be horrendously broken and all requests for it to be fixed seem to be ignored. Moreover apps working around the breakage are rejected by Harbor QA for spurious reasons. Can something be done about this?15:20
ced117yay SDL2 !15:20
cybette#link see comment nr. 4 for the question15:20
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cybettestephg: ;)15:21
cybettecomments on SDL2?15:21
M4rtinKso basically, this is my reaction on following the SDL2 situation15:21
ced117oh, that's why i couldn't get the landscape mode to work...15:21
M4rtinKthere have been multiple queries from developers wanting to use SDL15:21
M4rtinKthat have been largely ignored15:22
javispedro(you DID have to rotate your window manually on maemo 5, too)15:22
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M4rtinKas SDL more or less equals native games & multimedia apps15:22
M4rtinKthis is IMHO quite an important piece of technology that should work15:23
ced117didn't know that, thanks for the info javispedro15:23
M4rtinKespecially given all the Maemo 5 & 6 SDL legacy15:23
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M4rtinKso I would like to see the situation being resolved in some way15:24
veskuh_Yeah, SDL is important. We haven't had time to properly solve this.15:24
M4rtinKeq. either the various issues being resolved15:24
javispedroand this is no minor issue, since it seems it prevents landscape SDL games from entering the store at all15:24
cybette#info Importance of SDL is acknowledged, however Jolla hasn't had time to properly solve this15:24
M4rtinKor at least some firm guidelines (at least for the time being) being established so that people can actually publish their SDL using apps15:24
mhall119out of curiousity, is there any process to allow people outside of Jolla to contribute to fixing things like this?15:25
stephgmhall119: for middleware and things that are nemo/mer yes15:25
mhall119"haven't had the time" and "that person doesn't work here anymore" seems to be a recurring problem15:25
stephgi.e. via that15:25
veskuh_M4rtinK: Yes, that could be a start15:25
cybette#idea Establish some firm guidelines (at least for the time being) so that people can publish their SDL using apps15:25
r0kk3rzmhall119: given the current exodus, is that very surprising?15:26
veskuh_mhall119: unfortunately true15:26
M4rtinKI think also something like "we thing X needs to be done but we don't have capacity to do it ourselves" might help15:26
mhall119r0kk3rz: I'm not complaining or surprised, just pointing out that allowing external resources to be put to these tasks would help with it15:26
r0kk3rzM4rtinK: +115:26
c-lamhall119: so sadly true..15:26
cybette3 more min15:26
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M4rtinKI'll just note that this issues has been affecting multiple devs and has not been touched by Jolla for ~1-2 years AFAIK15:27
r0kk3rzis there a mer/nemo bug filed on this?15:27
kimmolijolla should be proactive giving community to do things15:27
ApBBB_mhall119: there is no streamlined process for the community to push stuff into jolla. this needs work but i don't expect much given the current situation15:27
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cybettetopic "community helping out" coming up15:28
ApBBB_not only for code but for localization art or whatever.15:28
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cybetteM4rtinK: can we go to the next topic?15:28
M4rtinKI think it should definitely be easier for people to contribute15:28
ApBBB_cybette: i 'll put it on the next meeting15:28
cybetteApBBB_: please do :)15:29
M4rtinKcybette: sure15:29
cybette#topic Out of band updates to allowed libraries for Harbor - MartinK (5 min)15:29
*** merbot changes topic to "Out of band updates to allowed libraries for Harbor - MartinK (5 min) (Meeting topic: SailfishOS, open source, collaboration: 17-Dec @ 14:30 UTC)"15:29
r0kk3rzi see no mer/nemo bug, perhaps that is a solution here15:29
cybette#info In the previous meeting, coderus raised the point that sometimes important libraries are left out from the list of allowed libs by mistake even though they are stable and already included in the released update.15:29
cybette#info The current practice seems to be that the list of allowed libraries is only updated when a new SDK is released. This introduces a big delay, that will probably only be significantly worse now due to the limited resources prolonging SDK development and QA phases, effectively blocking app developers from the default apps store due to process limitations.15:29
cybette#info Can this be changed so that allowed library list updates covering already released stuff take effect immediately ?15:29
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coderusafaik it was told in last meeting, SDK update is blocking allowing libraries immediately15:30
M4rtinKand the question is - does that make sense ?15:31
kimmoliisnt those updateable by user ?15:31
coderussome updates should came to SDK as well15:31
coderusor at least rpmvaliator should update separately15:31
M4rtinKespecially in now when we can expect the update cycles to take (much?) longer15:31
cybette#link topic 4 in last meeting
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M4rtinKend result: apps blocked from official store for months due to a single plaintext config file not being updated15:32
cybetteany comments from Jolla?15:32
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r0kk3rzM4rtinK: agreed, it shouldnt happen very often, but nice to have a process for when it does15:32
M4rtinKI'm sure the QA engineers can manage updating a single config file once in a while :)15:32
M4rtinKFWIW this already happened with the Qt Positioning imports15:33
cybetteshort topic: 1 min left for last words15:33
coderusooor, rpmvalidator tool should sync with some online resource15:33
coderusit will cover all existing issues15:33
M4rtinKit was also delayed by a couple of weeks due to this process15:33
veskuh_It might be doable with relatively minor effort, but did not check with harbour qa yet15:33
M4rtinKall from me15:33
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pketoWell, integrating rpm-validator to harbour binary upload is on the todo-list, so probably in that case it could be updated independent of the releases15:34
veskuh_pketo: yes, that would be good15:34
cybette#info It might be doable with relatively minor effort, but status have not been checkd with Harbour QA yet15:34
cybette#info integrating rpm-validator to harbour binary upload is on the todo-list, so probably in that case it could be updated independent of the releases15:35
cybettenext topic15:35
cybette#topic Community helping out - MartinK (15 min)15:35
*** merbot changes topic to "Community helping out - MartinK (15 min) (Meeting topic: SailfishOS, open source, collaboration: 17-Dec @ 14:30 UTC)"15:35
cybette#info Jolla/Sailfish OS seems to be in crisis and community members might want to help make the ship turn around, but there don't seem to be many concrete and widely accessible ways to do that at the moment:15:35
cybette#info one can buy another Jolla phone and that's about it. Are there some low-hanging-fruit (considering the expected current lack of resources at Jolla) aspects of Sailfish OS that community members can help out with ?15:35
veskuh_As discussed last time we are now building way for community to contribute to harbour qa, obviously it will take some time before it is ready15:37
M4rtinKso even though the current crisis might have been averted - *for now* - it showed that there is a surprising amount of good will still left in the community15:37
cybette#info This has been touched on in the last meeting as well, topics 3 and 6 -
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stephgM4rtinK: +115:38
M4rtinKbut not many ways to actually help, especially due for less technical users15:38
chrisx2dsfan make user review video about the experience of Sailfish Os the engane new potential buyer to join in~15:38
fravaccaro+1 for the QA15:38
veskuh_M4rtinK: Yes, and it was really great help for example when people come and help with helsinki office move.15:38
fravaccaroI think viral campaigns are an important point too. The one set up by Joshua is a great example!15:38
dr_gogeta86fravaccaro: fresh hw is needed15:39
c-lafravaccaro: which one? I missed it15:39
M4rtinKone can take various community projects as an example15:39
cybette#info community has already helped in amazing ways e.g. Helsinki office move and viral campaigns like the one by JoshStrobl15:39
M4rtinKthere can help with a lot of things with different amounts of expertise needed15:40
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fravaccaro@dr_gogeta86 I know, but fresh hw is not something community can help with15:40
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fravaccaro@c-la isupportjolla.com15:40
JoshStroblcybette, I just started a Thunderclap campaign as well. Info available via #ISupportJolla Twitter hashtag and link at isupportjolla.com15:40
stephgM4rtinK: what do you propose then?15:40
M4rtinKnot just code contributions but also localisation, testing, bug triage, documentation writing, helping to novice users, etc15:40
cybette#info there are more/different expertise in the community that can be used to help Jolla, in additional to technical capacity15:40
Copernicusfravaccaro: the hadk effort?15:40
ApBBB_fravaccaro: if anyone in the community have 5-10 millions available they sure can :P15:41
c-lafravaccaro: thx15:41
M4rtinKand I'm afraid then Sailfish OS project it severely lacking in this aspect15:41
fravaccaro@Copernicus yup, but it's not suitable to everybody15:41
M4rtinKespecially if further crises like this one have to be avoided15:41
ApBBB_helping happens in TJC15:41
cybette#info JoshStrobl has just started a Thunderclap campaign, more info available via #ISupportJolla twitter hashtag and isupportjolla.com15:41
fravaccaro@ApBBB_ let me check my bank account.... xD15:41
cybette#info other suggestions include localisation, testing, bug triage, documentation, helping novice users, as well as answering questions on TJC15:42
M4rtinKso are there any near term things people can help about ? or mid term things with some rough estimates when they might happen ?15:42
ApBBB_localization can happen once the pootle thing is ready. there is a call for keyboards in TJC and people test other peoples bugs in tjc15:43
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fravaccarowe should spread out infos. Some days ago I tweet about FFOS dying, somebody replied to me explaining that it's still, alive, just no longer sold by carriers. It may look like something small, but saying to the world that Jolla is still alive may help spread out the message15:43
daithefluM4rtinK: +115:44
M4rtinKor maybe some sort of "how to help make Sailfish OS awesome together" guide ?15:44
fravaccaro(well, sorry for the crappy synthax)15:44
M4rtinKsomething for people who want to help to get started15:44
cybettefravaccaro: +1 and I think the #ISupportJolla campaign has generated many tweets with the same idea15:44
M4rtinKexample of something like this for Fedora:15:45
ApBBB_things like spreading SFOS requires HW15:45
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JoshStroblM4rtinK, I would love to collaborate with you on getting something set up. We could have it on a community section on ISupportJolla or a separate place =)15:46
ced117good idea...15:46
cybette#link one way to help - Keyboard contributions
M4rtinKlist of various topics (& link to more resources) people can help with15:46
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chem|stwasn't there an early tjc with links to everything foss and stuff?15:46
cybette#idea collaborate and gather support on or someplace similar15:47
fravaccaroand this is something even less tecnical users (like me) can do. It may convey the idea that the community is for everybody, as long as there's passion15:47
cybette4 more min15:47
M4rtinKJoshStrobl: sure, but there needs to be something people can help with first15:47
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JoshStroblM4rtinK, of course :)15:47
M4rtinKthere are some thing already, but a lot of stuff needs support from Jolla first...15:47
ApBBB_M4rtinK: we cant expect much given the circumstances15:49
M4rtinKBTW, as for translations - there is already an unofficial l10n project on Transifex:
pketothe community pootle got stalled quite close to going public because of the financial situation, hopefully we can get that forward sometime soon15:49
cybettelet's continue this discussion in e.g. #jollamobile, #jollafanclub, the Jolla fan telegram group15:49
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cybette#info Unofficial l10n project
M4rtinKApBBB_: that's why I mention low-hanging-fruit - my idea is to give people "something" they can help with now15:50
ApBBB_pketo: is it really problematic and can the community do something to make it work?15:50
cybette#info Community pootle was stalled quite close to going public due to the financial situation, hopefully this can move forward sometime soon15:50
M4rtinKApBBB_: the more elaborate stuff can sure take more time15:50
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cybettetimes up for topic15:50
cybette#topic General discussions, wrap up, and next meeting - everyone (10 min)15:51
*** merbot changes topic to "General discussions, wrap up, and next meeting - everyone (10 min) (Meeting topic: SailfishOS, open source, collaboration: 17-Dec @ 14:30 UTC)"15:51
eugeniook, so I'll be that guy. Are there news to share about the upcoming update?15:51
pketoApBBB_: afaik it is mostly about syncing bits with our internal tools15:51
ApBBB_veskuh_: one question. what stops jolla from accepting payed apps in the store15:51
fravaccaroApBBB_ +115:52
veskuh_eugenio: In my opinion we are quite close to getting the next update to early access15:52
eugeniothat's great to hear, thank you :)15:52
ApBBB_pketo: can you just publish the tool so people can start and then sort out the sync stuff?15:52
cybette#info Jolla is quite close to getting the next Sailfish OS update for early access users15:53
JoshStroblveskuh_, fantastic news15:53
veskuh_ApBBB_: I don't know details of that plan15:53
ApBBB_also after the next update which items are in the roadmap. I know you are low on stuff but whats next?15:54
M4rtinKfor the record a pre-christmas break update would be nice :)15:54
M4rtinKstuff to hack on during the holidays15:54
ced117that's for sure ;-)15:54
pketoApBBB_: in theory, yes, but in practice it might bring up some unexpected issues15:54
cybetteabout next meeting: next week is christmas and following week is new year. I propose we have the next collaboration meeting after the new year, i.e. Jan 7, 201615:54
ApBBB_pketo: YOLOrelease :P15:55
cybetteany volunteers to chair?15:55
stephgcybette: +1, also hopefully to let the dust settle on money matters on the boat15:55
veskuh_ApBBB_: As Antti mentioned we have stuff coming up with partners and obviously filling those needs have been a big part of our work15:55
c-lacybette: so are youvsailing away for good? :(15:55
c-layou sailing*15:56
cybettec-la: i'm adrift at sea right now :) just asking for volunteers to chair this meeting (anyone can do it)15:56
ApBBB_veskuh_:  anything that will affect end users (ie vpn certificates etc). if you can't share i'll understand15:56
stephgcybette: if noone steps up I can (but I've not done it before)15:57
JoshStroblcybette, can you walk me through using the IRC tools and what the processes are?15:57
cybettestephg, JoshStrobl: i'd be glad to show you the ropes. so since stephg raised his hand first let's have him chair the first meeting of 2016 and JoshStrobl you can take the next :)15:57
cybettethank you both!15:57
veskuh_ApBBB_: There probably would be many things I could share, but can't remember right now.15:57
JoshStroblcybette, sounds good to me!15:58
stephgokies thanks15:58
iekkunice to have new chairs!15:58
cybette#info Next meeting Thurs Jan-7 @ 14:30 UTC, Chairperson stephg15:58
ApBBB_veskuh_: ok thanks no problem :)15:58
cybette#action cybette to send some guidelines for chairing meeting to stephg and JoshStrobl15:59
cybettelast words from anyone?15:59
c-laright within 90 minutes. :(15:59
JoshStroblHave happy holidays!15:59
cybettethis has been a long and exciting meeting. thanks to each and everyone of you for participating. Have a great Holiday season and see you next year!16:00
c-layep JoshStrobl !16:00
M4rtinKmerry xmas! :)16:00
ced117happy holidays everyone ;-)16:00
fravaccarothe topic raised by ApBBB_ is good...I would like to know more in the next meeting16:00
merbotMeeting ended Thu Dec 17 16:00:26 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)16:00
merbotMinutes (text):
*** merbot changes topic to "Next Sailfish OS community meeting Thursday 17th Dec 2015 @ 14:30 UTC"16:00
iekkuthank you everyone and have relaxing holidays16:00
veskuh_Merry Christmas, and thanks everybody!16:00
fravaccaroand merry xmass to y'all!16:00
eugeniohappy holidays :)16:00
cybetteveskuh_: thank you!! you too16:00
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CopernicusHappy Saturnalia to all! :)16:01
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cfb014Merry Christmas to everybody :)16:01
cybetteCopernicus: had to google saturnalia :D16:01
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Antoninonooo i was asking about eduroam wi fi :(16:02
fravaccarohyvää joulua kaikille!16:02
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LarstiQCopernicus: have you got your pilleus ready?16:02
LarstiQcybette: it's quite amazing how many of the traditions are recognizable16:02
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stephgAntonino: add it to the TJC for the meeting16:03
cybettefravaccaro: kiitos!16:03
cybetteLarstiQ: indeed :)16:03
stephgAntonio: the next meet16:03
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stephgAntonio also ask in #sailfishos folks there may be able to help16:03
CopernicusLarstiQ: :)  I'm just listening to The History of Rome podcast by Mike Duncan...16:04
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Antoninook :)16:04
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M4rtinKBTW, we broke the channel record for number of people :)16:05
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urjamanyeah i noticed16:06
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ggabrielnow that I can talk, it was interesting and good news in general16:06
c-lahow many?16:06
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iekkucybette, thank you for hosting meeting16:06
urjamanwhat was the stats command ...16:06
merboturjaman: On #mer-meeting there have been 97091 messages, containing 2834875 characters, 434009 words, 3968 smileys, and 5461 frowns; 759 of those messages were ACTIONs.  There have been 44855 joins, 991 parts, 43550 quits, 3 kicks, 347 mode changes, and 1860 topic changes.  There are currently 141 users and the channel has peaked at 159 users.16:07
cybetteiekku: thank you for being here too :) every presence makes a difference!16:07
iekkucybette, :)16:07
urjaman134 -> 15916:07
stephg+1 :)16:07
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ced117nice !16:08
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sledgesthanks all again, the best Christmas present -- friendly community \o/16:08
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HtheBdid I miss the meeting?16:23
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urjamanunless you secretly didnt, how'd i know16:24
HtheBurjaman: neh, I wish I secretly didn't miss it :(16:25
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*** cybette changes topic to "Next SailfishOS community meeting Thursday 7th Jan 2016 @ 14:30 UTC. Happy Holidays and see you next year!"17:50
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kimmolicybette:  \o/ you're learning :P17:54
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MyrttiI always feel bad if friends have trouble with IRC...18:22
locusfoh I missed it :p18:24
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locusfat least I wasnt on a train as last 4 meetings18:24
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cybettekimmoli: yeah I remembered that usually you'll remind me about something after the meeting :D19:01
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urjaman i'll just drop this here20:14
Stskeepsmer-meeting enters mainstream?20:14
cybetteyep, at least mainstream Finnish media :)20:18
netzviehso that's a mainstream news site?20:21
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netzviehwish every news site would be so clean and work without JS20:21
urjamanthats the national public broadcasting company's site ... they dont need ads, so...20:22
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harhaHyvä Yle :)20:37
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ln-might be the first time that mainstream finnish media refers to an irc conversation as the source of a news item.20:41
Stskeepsln-: well, there was the soviet coup..20:41
ln-hmm, true. but as virtually nobody had even heard about the internet back then, i doubt the media was explicitly mentioning "internet relay chat"20:44
kimmolithis was also referenced somewhere
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