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Uninstall | Hello | 08:35 |
---|---|---|
Stskeeps | hewwo | 08:35 |
Uninstall | I have a question: on the header of the project config I see that there is a "Do not edit... autogenerated" | 08:36 |
Uninstall | do you have any idea where is the template? | 08:36 |
Stskeeps | check out mer/project-core | 08:36 |
Uninstall | I mean MDS project config | 08:36 |
Uninstall | Stskeeps: git repo? | 08:36 |
Stskeeps | that's what i mean :) | 08:36 |
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Uninstall | cool | 08:37 |
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Punk_Joker_ | test | 09:18 |
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vgrade_ | phaeron: ping | 11:33 |
phaeron | pong | 11:33 |
vgrade_ | hi | 11:33 |
phaeron | hello | 11:33 |
vgrade_ | I'm interested in copyprj, and see osc patches at https://github.com/mer-tools/osc/commits/master | 11:34 |
vgrade_ | are there any related OBS patches? | 11:34 |
phaeron | yeah that needs my patch to obs 2.3 | 11:35 |
phaeron | not yet ported to 2.4 | 11:35 |
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vgrade_ | could you link me to those | 11:36 |
phaeron | https://github.com/Merproject/open-build-service/commits/mer-pending | 11:36 |
phaeron | vgrade_: ^^ | 11:36 |
vgrade_ | thanks | 11:37 |
phaeron | we haven't really capitalized on that feature yet. it was supposed to be used in mer's build trials | 11:37 |
phaeron | but imho with _service git based packaging it is much easier to just recreate the structure with a script | 11:38 |
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phaeron | vgrade_: mostly this patch https://github.com/Merproject/open-build-service/commit/53fbdfb651a4296f040cdb73da4d63551fc88336 | 11:39 |
vgrade_ | thanks | 11:40 |
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vgrade_ | phaeron: we don't have git here | 11:43 |
phaeron | I don't know where here is :) , but yeah if you depend on obs for "book keeping" then copyprj might be useful | 11:44 |
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bfederau | Hey. Does the debian:7.0 project on build.merproject.org provide ARM arch builds? If no is it possible to add this, say on a local mer obs instance? | 11:56 |
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phaeron | bfederau: it currently doesn't provide arm targets. I am not sure I know how to setup those for debian :) | 12:02 |
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bfederau | phaeron: So it is not possible resp. not that easy to use the cross-compiling way of Mer for ARM builds on the obs server? | 12:06 |
Stskeeps | rather, for debian | 12:06 |
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bfederau | On the meego obs there were build targets for Harmattan. That was ARM- and deb-based too when i remeber correctly. Does those Harmattan ARM builds differs from those for standard Debian? | 12:22 |
Stskeeps | yes, they were not cross compiled in practice | 12:24 |
Stskeeps | no qemu arm, | 12:24 |
Stskeeps | and since they take up massive amount of power/build time, we don't have it | 12:24 |
Stskeeps | :P | 12:24 |
bfederau | I see :) | 12:26 |
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bfederau | Any plans to support Debian ARM cross-compiling on Mer obs in future? | 12:28 |
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Stskeeps | bfederau: not really, it requires quite a lot of work from somebody's side | 12:40 |
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xavinux | Hi everyone, would like yo know how can I help mer project | 13:03 |
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sledges | xavinux, you can choose to test touchable/usable/visible distribution, which is based on the Mer Project -- for example, a Nemo Mobile (on Nokia N9 if you have one). IRC channel - #nemomobile | 13:08 |
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sledges | spotting some bugs might lead to have them fixed in as low levels as Mer project itself - good way to help! :) | 13:09 |
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xavinux | great, heve some linux knowledge and I´m very interested in low level works! | 13:11 |
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sledges | with this family here you will experience it all: high level(UI), middleware and low level :) | 13:11 |
sledges | all GNU/Linux :) | 13:12 |
xavinux | great read that Sailfish use Mer core | 13:12 |
sledges | true, let me introduce the architecture briefly of the two: | 13:13 |
xavinux | ok | 13:13 |
sledges | Nemo Mobile: | 13:13 |
sledges | high-level user experience (UX) - nemo:ux | 13:13 |
sledges | middle-level - middle-ware - nemo:mw | 13:13 |
sledges | low-level - core - mer project | 13:14 |
sledges | Sailfish OS: | 13:14 |
sledges | high-level user experience (UX) - sailfish:ux | 13:14 |
sledges | middle-level - middle-ware - nemo:mw (yes, sailfish is re-using nemo mw) | 13:14 |
sledges | low-level - core - mer project | 13:14 |
sledges | btw: UX and UI (user interface) are merely synonyms | 13:14 |
xavinux | very interesting | 13:15 |
sledges | Sailfish looks awesome, but is available only for Intel platforms at the moment | 13:15 |
sledges | Nemo Mobile looks still OK :) but already available for Nokia N900/N950/N9 and quite a number of other arm/x86 phones/devices | 13:16 |
xavinux | yes I´ve read that, I have a Nokia N9 at this moment | 13:16 |
xavinux | the N950 never arrived here in Argentina.... | 13:17 |
sledges | so having nemo on n9 (testing/contributing) is helping its middleware (reused by sailfish), and lowlevel - mer project , as per your original question :) | 13:17 |
sledges | I think N950 was a developer's device, you had to say what good you did to the N900/maemo/etc community, and then you get N950 -- the parent of N9 :) | 13:17 |
xavinux | aha ok | 13:18 |
Jope_ | yes, it was never for sale | 13:18 |
Jope_ | apart from those developers who sold theirs on ebay :-) | 13:18 |
sledges | (facepalm) | 13:18 |
sledges | :) | 13:18 |
xavinux | and where you sugest me to start with to get familar with the OS? | 13:18 |
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sledges | safest is to first run nemomobile on virtualbox (sailfish sdk offers the same) | 13:18 |
sledges | later you can try out nemo on your n9 | 13:19 |
xavinux | I´m just running Nemo in a Virtualbox machine | 13:20 |
xavinux | but don´t know how can I help from this point | 13:20 |
sledges | that's a good start already :) | 13:20 |
sledges | could be helpful if you joined #nemomobile :) | 13:21 |
sledges | 90% of this channel people sit in both rooms, so I'm not kidnapping you or anything :D | 13:22 |
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xavinux | ok | 13:24 |
xavinux | they work will mer too? | 13:25 |
sledges | if you work with nemo, you work with mer, ingenuously | 13:25 |
xavinux | joining.... | 13:26 |
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rozhkov | Stskeeps: what package provides gold in mer? | 15:36 |
Stskeeps | binutils, ld.gold | 15:37 |
Stskeeps | or add -fuse-ld=gold | 15:37 |
rozhkov | got it, thanks | 15:38 |
Bostik | finally without black magic and $PATH manipulation :) | 15:38 |
Stskeeps | +1 | 15:38 |
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rubdos | I was wondering: I don't like the fact that google glass would store everything in googles cloud (especially now NSA is spying on us), like Android does already. What about mer/nemo on glass would that be possible? | 17:45 |
rubdos | (aka, I won't buy AR glasses until I've got FULL control of MY device... Anybody wanting to helping to port Mer and writing a GUI? ;D | 17:48 |
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ali1234 | rubdos: the gui isn't the part you need. if you want you can recompile android or whatever it uses without google service stuff | 18:10 |
ali1234 | the real backdoors are always going to be in the radio rom and you are not going to be able to replace that | 18:10 |
rubdos | ali1234, That 's part one; I'd love to not to run java... | 18:10 |
ali1234 | why? | 18:11 |
rubdos | And yes, we need to find a way to open that load too | 18:11 |
rubdos | 'cause java is sloooow | 18:11 |
ali1234 | not really | 18:11 |
ali1234 | you will never open the radio roms up | 18:11 |
ali1234 | there is far too much platform security in place to prevent you even running an unsigned one, let alone one you compiled yourself | 18:11 |
rubdos | I wont. Fact. But they should be, if we want to avoid the whole mess NSA is doing right now | 18:12 |
ali1234 | it's a completely different thing in fact | 18:12 |
rubdos | And yes, we don't like boot locks :( | 18:12 |
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ali1234 | the radio roms have far more protection than typical applications core bootloader | 18:13 |
ali1234 | they run on a totally isolated CPU core for a reason | 18:13 |
rubdos | I'm still waiting on completely opensource hardware and software phones... and goggles. BTW, google should call it goggles, not glass :O | 18:14 |
rubdos | How's that? What part is running somewhere else? | 18:14 |
ali1234 | the radio rom | 18:14 |
ali1234 | the drivers that communicate with the phone network, and with the microphone on the phone, are all run on a totally isolated core running a proprietary operating system | 18:15 |
rubdos | Which is the software part of the bluetooth and wifi stack? | 18:15 |
ali1234 | i don't know if glass has a built in phone? but i suppose it does, or will | 18:15 |
rubdos | why's that? Why should they run on proprietary software? | 18:15 |
rubdos | I suppose it will too... Don't think it has yet | 18:16 |
ali1234 | and yes often the wifi and bluetooth are also controlled by that stuff too, though not always | 18:16 |
rubdos | Okay, let's limit the size of the ROM on those IC's :P | 18:16 |
ali1234 | there is no reason why they have to run a proprietary OS other than a) the manufacturer wants to maximum security possible, b) the network wants to completely certify every line of code in the rom | 18:16 |
ali1234 | you should read up about this stuff, it's really interesting | 18:17 |
rubdos | Makes it more difficult for them... But you get my point, right? If the software would be open, we'd have much more fun. | 18:17 |
ali1234 | the radio rom isn't really a rom | 18:17 |
rubdos | Yes, I should. And I should be studying my chemistry exam too :D | 18:17 |
rubdos | But this is far more interesting ;) | 18:17 |
ali1234 | for example on old old omap850 the application core is armv5 (or 6 i forget) and the radio core is armv4 | 18:18 |
ali1234 | the application core loads a binary blob to a magic memory address and then the radio core starts up | 18:18 |
ali1234 | before that you can't do any radio ops at all, not even emergency calls will work | 18:19 |
ali1234 | you can't even do "AT" or talk to it at all | 18:19 |
ali1234 | the only interface into the armv4 is serial style | 18:19 |
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rubdos | That really is... worth investigating. Anyone tried yet to read the instructions out? | 18:19 |
ali1234 | you could in theory load a linux kernel in to it but you would never be able to reverse engineer the drivers require to make the radio work | 18:19 |
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ali1234 | basically that radio core exists only the prevent you from directly accessing the radio | 18:20 |
rubdos | Or to have something to spy on the user? | 18:20 |
ali1234 | well, perhaps | 18:20 |
ali1234 | you can never know | 18:20 |
rubdos | Because this is what I call non-usefull "overhead" | 18:20 |
ali1234 | but just running andaroid or some other linux isn't going to make any difference | 18:20 |
ali1234 | because if there is a backdoor it is absolutely 100% going to be hidden in the proprietary locked down radio core where you can't see it at all | 18:21 |
rubdos | It would make a difference if we had permission to load our own stuff... and have an open interface to all those things | 18:21 |
rubdos | yes indeed... | 18:21 |
ali1234 | but we absolutely don't | 18:21 |
ali1234 | omap850 is really old any way | 18:22 |
ali1234 | new chips are using a proprietary instruction set on the private core | 18:22 |
ali1234 | for example the chip inside the raspberry pi | 18:22 |
rubdos | Lets see, new instruction in the set "ARMv4NSA": SPY #memory address | 18:22 |
rubdos | sends a byte to NSA | 18:22 |
ali1234 | there the private core is not to protect radio/network but in order to implement codec licensing | 18:23 |
rubdos | Yes, I know they have a NDA, which made me very... can't get to the word | 18:23 |
ali1234 | they call it a GPU but it runs a full OS | 18:23 |
rubdos | suspiciously | 18:23 |
ali1234 | that OS does things like verify the license key you put in is real and lock it to the chip | 18:23 |
rubdos | Yes, indeed... These things can scare the sh** out of me | 18:24 |
ali1234 | it also acts as a mediator between the core you are allowed to run things on, and the core which is physically connected to the actual hardware | 18:24 |
ali1234 | linux on raspberry pi is effectively trapped in a hardware virtualization | 18:24 |
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ali1234 | but anyway that is enough ranting from me | 18:25 |
rubdos | Mind if i dump this text to a .txt and let a friend of mine read this too? | 18:25 |
ali1234 | of course not. this channel is publicly logged anyway i think | 18:25 |
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rubdos | And I can assure you, you can't bore me with this "ranting" :) | 18:25 |
ali1234 | yeah but it's offtopic | 18:26 |
rubdos | Yes, indeed. Now it is | 18:26 |
rubdos | If you want, we can discuss this somewhere else | 18:26 |
Stskeeps | but anyway: if you can boot your own kernel; build an flashable android image for it, yes, you can probably run mer with libhybris on it | 18:26 |
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Stskeeps | and flash your own root file system | 18:27 |
ali1234 | yes, they already ran ubuntu on it that way | 18:28 |
Stskeeps | well that was more of a chroot | 18:28 |
ali1234 | at the developer show | 18:28 |
Stskeeps | from what i recall | 18:28 |
ali1234 | well that's how ubuntu phone still works currently, though the big switch should happen this month | 18:28 |
rubdos | I already read someone rooting the device. If he could install a ssh server on it, you could do anything you want, theoretically? Except for the rom thingy, ofc | 18:29 |
Stskeeps | nah, you need more, ability to flash and boot own kernel | 18:30 |
rubdos | Mmm.. Yes, I was thinking of conventional bios driven systems :/ I'm not really into embedded | 18:30 |
rubdos | You basically need more knowledge from that point :P | 18:31 |
Stskeeps | embedded is hard | 18:31 |
Stskeeps | :P | 18:31 |
rubdos | I'd love to learn more about it. Well, I will next year. Civil engineering/computer science :P | 18:33 |
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Stskeeps | don't worry, you won't learn anything useful in CS | 18:35 |
Stskeeps | :P | 18:35 |
ali1234 | haha | 18:35 |
rubdos | Damned :) | 18:36 |
rubdos | Why not ? :O | 18:36 |
rubdos | What course would you take in my place? :P | 18:37 |
ali1234 | if i could do university again i would do pure mathematics i think | 18:37 |
rubdos | cool :) | 18:37 |
rubdos | What did you do now? | 18:38 |
ali1234 | CS | 18:38 |
ali1234 | i might also do whatever course is all about signal processing which is mostly maths | 18:38 |
rubdos | (I'm starting to think I can pull every conversation to be offtopic...) | 18:39 |
rubdos | And yes, that's probably why I'm taking CS via the engineering way... | 18:40 |
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CosmoHill | night night | 22:10 |
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