Sunday, 2012-06-24

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rcgwhen is the next release planned?12:41
rcgjust asking because qmlcalendar is currently undergoing quite some rework that should significantly improve the usability12:42
rcgand if you plan a release in the near future i would put additional effort in packaging and submitting the current version12:42
rcgthere is still very much that needs to be done12:52
phaeronwell releases won't happen unless there's something to warrant a release :)12:53
rcghowever, i really think, that this is a pretty big improvement over what we had before12:53
rcgalright :)12:53
Venemorcg: same is true for irc-chatter12:53
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rcgVenemo: :) nice to see we are not alone in this boat ;)12:54
rcgi guess that's the faith of open source projects being developed in very scarce spare time...12:54
Venemotrue.12:54
phaeronyeah, I'll try to push more updates if I can find any :)12:56
Venemophaeron: where are the instructions on getting Nemo to the N950?13:00
Venemoahe13:01
Venemofound 'em13:01
Venemohttp://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Nemo/Installing13:01
Venemosorry13:01
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phaeronsorry wasn't looking13:09
Venemono problem13:20
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Venemophaeron, how familiar are you with the sw architecture of Nemo?13:21
phaeronI know about it but Sage_ is ther mastermind13:23
Stskeepsmm?13:24
VenemoI'm looking for some sort of architecture diagram, or an overview about the packages which consist the UX13:25
phaeronStskeeps: nemo architecture13:25
Venemonot sure if something similar exists at all13:25
phaeronVenemo: you can start at http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Architecture13:26
phaeronsince nemo is based on mer13:26
Venemoas I said, I'm specifically interested in the UX :)13:26
VenemoI know it's similar to what harmattan has (meegotouchhome, sysuid, etc.) but I've never seen an overview of that one either.13:27
phaeronI vaguely remember seeing something like that in the wiki13:28
Venemoyup, I'm searching in the wiki13:29
Venemoalso13:29
VenemoI'm not even sure what is the upstream for Nemo nowadays.13:29
phaeronVenemo: http://sage.kapsi.fi/Mer/misc/Nemomobile-OBS-project-structure-draft.png13:29
Stskeepstraditionally harmattan13:29
VenemoStskeeps, what do you mean?13:30
Stskeepswell, as in, many of our components are shared with harmattan13:30
Stskeepsbut we kinda have our own life13:31
VenemoStskeeps, where are the upstream sources of those components?13:31
VenemoI recall they used to be at meego gitorious, is that still the case?13:31
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Stskeepsyes, or wheneever they were in sdk13:32
Venemobtw, it's flattering to see my little app as an example on that diagram :)13:32
Venemoso, is this the right place? http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-handset-ux13:33
Venemoor this? http://meego.gitorious.org/meegotouch this seems to be more like it13:34
Stskeepsmeegotouch probably better13:34
Stskeepsbut MTF is so dead it's incredible :P13:34
Venemotrue, but nemo still uses MTF for its desktop, doesn't it?13:34
Stskeepsit fdoes13:35
Stskeepsfor now13:35
Venemoon the longer term, I've always wanted to create a poc ux of my own, based on qml13:35
Venemobut anyway, that's not what I'm looking for right now.13:36
Stskeepsyou saw lipstick, right?13:36
Venemoyep13:37
Venemoit seemed to be a very good thing to base my stuff on.13:37
Stskeepsyep13:37
Venemobut it still needed a lot of work, last time I checked.13:37
Stskeepsit's just a template13:38
Venemoyep, it's a proof of concept that proves that qml can be used for making a desktop.13:38
Venemobut it's not something that actually is usable.13:38
Venemodoes Nemo use meegotouch-systemui for its lockscreen?13:39
Stskeepsyes13:39
Venemothat's what I was looking for13:39
Venemo:)13:40
Venemofortunately now that I have an N9 that I can use for personal purposes, I can devote my N950 to Nemo hacking13:43
Stskeepsyes13:44
Venemobtw, do you guys actually have a plan to replace meegotouch with something new?13:45
phaeronhopefully :)13:46
Venemoso is there something that's being worked on?13:46
phaeronwell you can see some applications being replaced with QML stuff13:47
VenemoI can, yes13:47
phaeronbut I think there is no official plan or roadmap13:47
StskeepsVenemo: i'm working on wayland+qml compositor on top on llvmpipe/virtualbox for  future tornado-like experiences13:48
Stskeeps:P13:48
VenemoI'm personally more interested in replacing meegotouchhome to something more useful, than replacing individual mtf apps13:48
VenemoStskeeps, that sounds real awesome13:48
Venemoand I'll also wait for Sage_ - the mastermind13:50
* Stskeeps was defacto architect :P13:57
VenemoStskeeps, of the UX too?13:57
Stskeepswell, of the way we put things together/solutions13:57
Stskeepssage knows more than me of the way the repos are outlined though13:57
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VenemoI'm not quite interested in the way the repos are outlined, I'm interested in how the different meegotouch-* pieces interact with each other.13:59
Stskeeps:nod:14:01
Venemoit seems to be largely non-documented, or at least I didn't find any documentation on the subject14:01
Venemothe base OS architecture is also impressive, but I'm more of a UI guy + I trust Stskeeps that the base OS is okay14:10
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niqtrcg: ping15:31
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rcgah, just missed him15:38
Stskeepstegel just made my list of airports i really never want to visit again.. totally insane to navigate15:41
dm8tbrStskeeps: they'd also prefer you to not visit again, too bad that their new airport isn't getting done any time soon...15:42
Stskeepsyess15:42
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Venemohi again21:25
Venemo"You may brick your device to state where it can't be returned to usage" - how's that possible? can't it be always just reflashed?21:26
VenemoStskeeps, have you seen such a message? http://fpaste.org/xKj8/21:32
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Venemoafter this try, the device gives a ridiculous error message but does not boot properly21:34
Venemo"you have modified the device software, making the warranty permanently void" blah-blah :D21:35
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phaeronVenemo: flashing harmattan again should work21:41
Venemoha! it seems that --erase-user-data=secure made this problem go away21:41
VenemoI'm downloading the harmattan image regardless21:41
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Venemook, it failed once again21:59
Venemosame error message22:00
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phaeronVenemo: did you upgrade harmattan22:05
Venemophaeron, the N950 had the latest harmattan version,y es22:07
phaeronhmm and the  autolock thing mentioned ?22:08
Venemoit was off22:08
phaeronI don't have an n950 , so I don't know ..22:08
VenemoI'm reflashing with harmattan and see if it works or not22:08
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Venemowhat the hell22:21
Venemoit says "downgrading is disallowed" after my try to reflash with the latest harmattan image22:21
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VenemoI'm having one more try, then will go to sleep22:26
Venemomeh, I'm an idiot22:28
Venemoit was an old image...22:28
Venemoha! I found a solution22:41
Venemothe N950 landing page on meego.com wiki gave me a hint.22:42
VenemoThere are some problems when flashing from some recent versions of popular distributions. openSUSE 11.4, Ubuntu 11.10 and Fedora 15 are known to cause problems during the rootfs and mmc steps. Error messages contain plenty of "bb5_rdc_cert_read failed". Archlinux, Meego and slightly older versions of the listed above have been used successfully. If you get that error, use the flasher from beta1.22:42
Venemoand indeed, it works with the flasher from beta122:42
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Venemoawesome22:46
Venemothere is one step I don't understand22:46
VenemoMOSLO says "Rootfs now exported via USB" - however the device that I see in USB is 9.5 GB, which seems to be a bit larger than a rootfs.22:47
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Venemook, my N950 now runs on Nemo23:07
Venemointerestingly, Nemo doesn't seem to be able to handle the battery of the device, nor can it charge it23:07
VenemoI'm trying to update the packages and then reboot, and see if anything happens23:08
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Venemothis is not good23:17
Venemoit can't recognize my battery.23:17
Venemoand I found lots of glitches23:20
rcgVenemo: battery issue is well known, unfortunately23:22
rcgwhat kind of glitches do you experience?23:22
rcgdid you try to reboot at least once?23:22
Venemoyes I did after I installed all updates23:22
rcgalright, i just read the rest you wrote here ;)23:23
Venemorcg, so if I plug it in, does it actually charge, or not even that?23:23
rcgit does charge23:23
rcg"just" the indicator is not working23:23
Venemook, that's something23:24
rcgi also tried to have a look at that issue but that is really low level hardware guessing23:24
rcgif you search in the nemo bugtracker there is a bug about this where i also commented and posted my findings23:24
Venemoso, after the Nemo splashscreen but before the desktop loads, some very odd picture appears23:25
Venemothe lockscreen sometimes gets buggy23:25
Venemoit forgot my wifi setting23:25
rcgwrt this issue i am currently stuck half way in between getting some useful info out of the battery gauge chip and patching/writing a kernel module to read the values from it :/23:25
rcgVenemo: yeah, wifi is also an issue here.. i figured it is actually associated just lost the ip config23:26
Venemoalso, after connecting to another wifi, some time passed and something happened after which it said that the device doesn't have a wlan module23:26
rcgso i manually configure ip, default gw, and dns when that happens23:26
rcgand afterwards its pretty stable23:26
VenemoI wouldn't call the calendar app a calendar app23:26
rcgVenemo: that's what i am actually working on :)23:26
Venemothe browser is awesome (and also quite fast), but it isn't very user friendly23:27
rcgniqt and me made quite big progress with this one23:27
rcgi think you should like the new version of the calendar app23:27
rcghopefully ;)23:27
Venemothe settings app is non-performant23:27
VenemoI could go on listing the glitches :(23:27
rcgagreed23:27
Venemobut I don't want to23:27
rcgVenemo: maybe i find the time to upload the latest version of the calendar app to my download resposity23:28
rcgtomorrow, that is23:28
Venemocamera app not working at all23:28
rcgwill ping you if you are interested23:28
Venemorcg, no hurries.23:28
rcgyeah, there are many issues23:28
rcgif you like you can try meepasswords and qtodo23:29
Venemoalso irc-chatter doesn't want to connect, ever23:29
rcgthese should actually be available via the default repositories by now23:29
rcgso just: zypper in23:29
rcgshould do23:29
VenemoI can't decide whether the gallery app is plain not working or there are just no pictures. (it's a big white rectangle)23:30
rcgthe new calendar app, e.g., features many improvements23:30
rcgcalendar icon shows the current day of month, you can actually store new entries, you can navigate by swiping, etc.23:30
rcgbut this was all hard work23:31
Venemoyup, the new version of irc-chatter also has a lot of improvements :)23:31
rcgso expect lots of "glitches" if you really wanna use nemo right now23:31
rcg:)23:31
Venemoyeah, I see.23:32
rcgactually, i would consider the current version of the calendar app i got here at least half-way usable23:32
Venemorcg, hey, please don't take any offense on that comment of mine about it23:32
VenemoI didn't mean it like that23:33
rcgi don't, don't worry :)23:33
rcgi know this is a huge construction site23:33
rcgand there are only so many hours in a day ;)23:33
rcgalso the terminal is missing the menu bar, with e.g. tab or esc shortcuts23:33
rcgthat's also one thing i was looking into.. but well.. no time.. i guess you know this issue ;)23:34
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rcgfor now i focused on the calendar, and tried to hack on the other issues that bug me most, at least a little23:34
Venemoyour calendar is in qml, right?23:35
rcgits actually the calendar of niqt23:35
rcgi just jumped on board as co-developer23:35
rcgbut yes, it's qml23:36
Venemo:)23:36
rcgi'll package the whole shebang i have here tomorrow23:36
rcgso you can have a look :)23:36
Venemoall right23:36
VenemoI'll see23:36
rcgfeedback is always appreciated23:37
VenemoI have very little time for this stuff nowadays, but I'd like to allocate more :) so sure :)23:37
rcgit is still very far from being perfect but it is, at the same time, quite an improvement, i think ;)23:37
rcgsame here :)23:37
rcgvery same ;)23:37
rcgbut having a "plain linux" with all this aegis stuff and other issues is just great..23:38
Venemoindeed it is23:39
rcgno need to devel-su, open mode, or inception, as you are already fully open23:39
Venemoyup23:39
rcgand best of it all, nearly everything is open source23:39
rcgso, imho, this is the future23:39
Venemoyes.23:39
VenemoI think I've been saying that for a year or two23:40
Venemobut noone ever listens to me23:40
Venemosome guys just keep hacking on fremantle still...23:40
rcgyeah, that's also a neat thing, no need to hack for different systems... nemo/mer runs on N900, N950, and N923:41
Venemoanyway23:41
rcgso with this you really only code and package once :)23:41
Venemoany chance of the double tap to wake up thing?23:41
rcgchance for sure, just needs a brave soul to implement it.. imho23:42
Venemo:)23:42
rcgbut well.. gotta hit the sack.. it's pretty late here and i wasted much more time hacking on the calendar than i expected23:42
Venemoyep, it's so late here that it's actually early23:42
Venemo:P23:42
rcggotta catch up with the work i ought to have done during the weekend23:42
Venemoanyway, I couldn't sleep with a bricked N95023:42
Venemo:P23:42
Venemoso, good night :)23:43
rcggot a submission deadline tomorrow xD23:43
Venemoand I have a planning meeting tomorrow23:43
rcghehe, neither would have i23:43
rcgalright23:43
rcgthen good night as well.23:43
Venemobye, and let's keep in touch23:43
rcgsure :)23:43
rcgi'll ping you tomorrow once i packaged the new calendar23:43
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