Thursday, 2014-06-26

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locusfmorning all :)06:42
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gogetagood morning guys08:06
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gogetafaenil: and dns be with you08:07
locusfok, now to explore the Nemo rootfs on Jolla possibility08:10
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faenilgogeta, ahah08:10
gogetasecurefishnet isn't open ....08:11
gogetaWhen I got some times I wrote a simple application for that .....08:12
gogetafor irc mail and chat simply rocks08:12
faenillocusf, may the force be with you08:14
faenilI wish I could help08:14
locusffaenil: thx :)08:14
faenilbut no time :/08:14
locusffaenil: :/08:14
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egrepIs there any way to *not* dual boot nemo, and instead to just have the entire device be nemo?08:31
locusfegrep: on which device?08:31
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hurrianegrep: definitely, load up MOSLO, partition the device, untar Nemo onto the phone, then copy the current zImage from /boot and flash it with Flasher08:34
egrepLemme try...08:35
sledgesand g00d morning!08:36
sledgesegrep: only Alt_OS partition is being exported via MOSLO, so it pays to make other but very small08:37
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egrepsledges: I know the first bit, but I don't get that second bit after the comma.08:37
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sledgesmmcblk0p4 is what needs to be massive08:38
egrepsledges: Yeah... is it possible without harmattan at all?08:38
hurrianegrep: flash Ubiboot and it'll expose the entire emmc device08:39
sledgesegrep: yes, but  you'll still need to make 1 2 and 3 partitions, just make them as small as possible when repartitioning08:39
sledgeswhat hurrian said above08:39
sledgesor what hurrian said just now ;)08:39
sledgesyou got options08:39
egrephurrian: Well, that's what's flashed right now. ubiboot.08:39
hurrianin that case, just connect to a Linux PC via USB while phone is powered off and it'll send you straight into rescue mode08:40
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egrepWait... so let me get this straight... I make 4 partitions, 1 2 3 contain nothing and are as small as possible, 4 is everything else and contains nemo... right?09:08
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sledgesegrep: if you have ubiboot, you don't need to do that09:09
egrepOkay, let's say I have ubiboot. Then I do what?09:10
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egrepLet's say I have one huge partition which cointains nemo.09:10
sledgesdelete all partitions and create partition 1 for whole09:10
egrepOkay, I have that. And it's got nemo.09:10
sledgesand set ubiboot to boot from it09:10
egrepOh. Hrm. Any way to do it without ubiboot?09:11
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egrepWell... hold on, first, how did harmattan boot?09:12
egrepBecause if I'm understanding how this works correctly, harmattan just booted through whatever system is already in place... is it possible to get nemo to boot through that?09:12
egrepOr am I understanding this incorrectly.09:12
sledges!seen juiceme09:14
Merbotsledges: juiceme was last seen in #nemomobile 3 days, 2 hours, 33 minutes, and 37 seconds ago: <juiceme> sledges, :)09:14
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sledgesegrep: needs studying how ubiboot works. if phone is in factory state, i think MOSLO boots harmattan with its kernel params etc, so there might not be a straightforward way to shovel nemo in there instead09:15
sledgesi'd just hope is as easy as "default boot OS" in ubiboot ;)09:16
egrepWell, it is if I don't go around and changing stuff around too much in ubiboot.conf.09:17
* egrep tries one more thing before resorting to ubiboot09:18
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* egrep gives up and goes to ubiboot09:20
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locusfseems that sbj-packages can't be cached09:32
* locusf goes back to writing his thesis09:34
egrepWell, it works. Now if only ubiboot just skipped straight ahead to nemo without any annoying animations...09:35
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sledgesegrep: good stuff, posting a question on ubiboot tmo thread could be good; as juiceme is not around atm09:39
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hurrianegrep: NOLO has hardcoded boot parameters which it uses to boot Harmattan, these are mostly the same for Nemo.09:44
hurrianHOWEVER, iirc Wayland needed some configuration of the video memory, so it might not be totally compatible.09:44
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egrephurrian: Hrm... interesting... so why not make something that's the equivalent of that but with nemo boot params?10:03
hurriannobody really cares enough to go and patch NOLO with those boot args, it's comfy enough using MOSLO/Ubiboot10:03
hurrianalternatively you can hardcode them into the kernel and ignore NOLO's bootargs, but the kernel would be device-specific because it had the IMEI and HW-serial (WTF, Nokia?)10:04
egrepUsing moslo/ubiboot seems... I dunno... dirty... I would actually personally go with either of the options that you just gave, if I knew how.10:06
hurrianyou'll need to prep a MerSDK VM, install the cross-compiler and just build n9_mer_defconfig with your cmdline in the kernel10:06
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egrephurrian: Which one of the two options is that?10:17
sledgesegrep: 2nd:)10:18
egrepYeah... that's what I thought. ._.10:19
egrepFirst option seems... better, though.10:19
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jmlichHi, I was about to rebuild my package in OBS, but I don't see trigger service button anymore. Any ideas how run git service in mer obs?10:31
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kimmolii manually edited service file with new commit sha10:46
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gogetawho is here caldav master ?13:27
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SK_workbut he is away13:29
SK_workgogeta: chriadam|away13:29
gogetaI've published my carddav/caldav server13:31
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SK_workand ?13:35
SK_workgogeta: ah ?13:35
SK_workdo you want to test something ? :)13:35
gogetaSure for sure13:35
gogetaI'm working for a company who also sells opensource collaboration platform13:36
SK_workgogeta: which company (ooc) ?13:36
sledgesand is it funambol? ;)13:48
sledgesggabriel from #jollamobile has a caldav server at home too btw13:48
sledgeslots of api hell :/13:48
sledgesas every implementation of caldav interprets RFCs differently13:49
gogetasledges: funambol caldav was implemented by my master13:50
gogetayou know ?13:50
gogetaWe got a home13:50
gogetaapple calendar server13:50
gogetafor now ... the most effective is davical13:51
sledgesggabriel uses owncloud13:51
gogetabedework is super massive black hole13:51
gogetabased on sabredav13:51
gogetaas owncloud and baikal13:51
sledgescrikey ^_^13:51
gogetabut the best is calendar server and bedework13:52
gogetathe also have freebusy13:52
gogetaand all nuts and bolts13:52
gogetaevery kind of server have their caveats13:53
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* sledges nods13:54
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locusfhmm interesting, when using launcherfoldermodel from lipstick, the spinner starts on homescreen startup and stays that way forever15:09
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locusfhad to dig up the object type from it and not show the spinner when tapping on folders15:16
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DeformatHello everyone, long time, no see. I'm currently busy with exams, so haven't done much (well, qwazix, I hope that you see this). Another thing that I'd like to leave around here:18:41
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DeformatAlso, did I miss a lot of work in the past 2 months?18:43
DeformatGraphics, at least18:43
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DeformatScrew me sideways, that looks way better than expected18:46
DeformatIt's on the Jolla, right?18:46
DeformatOr on the N9, locusf?18:46
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locusfDeformat: on the Jolla yes18:47
locusfN9 is horribly broken18:47
faenilwe should really fix n918:47
faenilgah I have to stop wasting time on chat and plan my days better to do both thesis, p2p project, and glacier18:47
locusfI've been trying18:47
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locusfboth? you mentioned 3 things lol18:48
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DeformatQuestion to Jolla users: do you have Here maps with offline abilities?18:48
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DeformatThing is, I'm stuck to getting a W8 tablet for it's offline services and some Nokia stuff. I'd buy a Jolla in an instant if the mapping services were included.18:50
locusfno offline maps for Jolla :/18:50
M4rtinKwell, you can use Android offline mapping apps as a stopgap18:50
DeformatOnly 80 mb :\18:51
tbror that maeps thing18:51
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DeformatOn Here you can basically have the whole road maps of a country for as much as you please18:52
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faenillocusf, right (3 things) :D18:56
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M4rtinKalso modRana :)19:10
faeniland I didn't include time for gf in the equation...she deserves a lot :) <319:12
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qwazix_locusf, btw if nobody objects I suggest to change the gps icon with this
qwazix_Deformat, thanks for the link, lots of useful info21:15
M4rtinKwell, the current one is more technically correct :)21:19
M4rtinKgiant terrestrial dish antennas don't play any role in GPS21:19
qwazix_M4rtinK, it's true21:20
M4rtinKon the other hand even the current icon looks rather weird21:20
M4rtinKno real satellite looks like this21:21
qwazix_if you see that (dish) icon will you grok immediately that it is gps?21:21
qwazix_that is our goal for icons if it does that then it's okay21:21
qwazix_even if no email ever came wrapped in an envelope21:22
qwazix_everybody understands the meaning21:22
qwazix_(though there are some oddities too in that approach)21:23
M4rtinKwell I would rather think "uplink" or "internet" when looking at it21:23
qwazix_I bet most of todays teenagers only ever saw a diskette on a save icon21:23
M4rtinKfor the record I remember already discussing the Nemo icon a few months ago, should be somewhere in the logs21:24
qwazix_M4rtinK, then we might have to reconsider21:24
qwazix_that specific icon doesn't feel at home with the other, rounded icons21:24
M4rtinKsure, it indeed looks weird21:26
M4rtinKBTW, for inspiration, this is the satellite icon I use in modRana:
M4rtinKwhich is a simplified image of the actual GPS satellite :)21:27
qwazix_hmm, too much for a status icon though21:27
M4rtinKor maybe something like this ?21:27
M4rtinKsure, would be too small21:27
qwazix_maybe a crosshair-something, but it might be confused with the nfc icon next to it21:27
M4rtinKanother idea (that already came up in the old discussion) would be to use a compass icon21:28
M4rtinKHarmattan does that IIRC21:28
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qwazix_yeah this one with a bit of rounding could work21:28
M4rtinKor going with the nautical theme a sextant: :)21:29
qwazix_I also thought we might use a POI icon to match the maps application21:29
M4rtinKyeah, that might work too21:29
M4rtinKor the position indicator21:29
M4rtinKindicating "current position acquired"21:29
qwazix_sextant is cool and geeky!21:30
M4rtinKyeah :D21:30
qwazix_and there's the added benefit that the first time someone sees that icon he will probably have just launched maps or something, so even if it's weird it's easy to associate21:30
M4rtinKlooking at the homescreen image, the current satellite icon really has to go :P21:31
M4rtinKI can say I haven't seen sextant being used for a location anywhere yet21:31
qwazix_good that it's not only me :P21:31
M4rtinKso it would be first :)21:31
M4rtinK*a first21:31
qwazix_btw, it's still early but would you be interested to have modRana be the official nemo maps application? It might require some UI modifications to fit Glacier, but it would be very nice to have it, IMO21:34
qwazix_(and while we still have generic names on mockups etc. I think it's a good idea to have real app names as a default lineup, instead of "web" "mail" "maps" etc.21:35
qwazix_M4rtinK, ^^21:39
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M4rtinKqwazix_: sure, why not :)21:39
qwazix_good! I'll give it a spin on the drawing board then21:40
M4rtinKI actually already have a skeleton prepared for using Glacier as the QtQuick component backend21:41
M4rtinKnot really anything there yet but it is ready to start overriding the default Controls elements as soon as Glacier elements become available21:43
M4rtinKthis is how the GUI looks like with the Controls backend:
M4rtinKand this is with Silica21:44
M4rtinKwith the same declarative GUI code21:44
* qwazix_ goes and looks21:45
M4rtinKso the same thing could be made for Glacier and even more if needed21:45
qwazix_I was always torn whether it is a benefit to try to maintain an abstraction layer for controls or have different qml UI's altogether21:47
qwazix_the "disposable" qml seemed more appealing to me21:47
M4rtinKif your app is a single use one21:47
M4rtinKthe it might21:47
qwazix_especially since mobile UIs differ much more than the desktop UI's do21:47
M4rtinKonce it does something more & is incrementally developed -> no way21:48
M4rtinKwell, this is still really a mobile UI21:48
qwazix_(ie if you theme gnome with a win8 theme or aqua it becomes almost indistinguishable)21:49
M4rtinKjust with the aim to run on as many mobile devices as possible21:49
M4rtinKfunny thing many people call Gnome 3 a "mobile/tablet UI"21:49
qwazix_gnome shell is tablet-y21:49
qwazix_gtk-3 not so much21:50
M4rtinKwhile it is pretty much unusable on a tablet or a mobile phone (I've seen it on both :) ) and even the developers themselves say so :)21:50
qwazix_(and by the way while it looks like it could function very well on a tablet, it doesn't)21:50
M4rtinKwell, the main paradigm is a top left hot corner21:50
M4rtinKtry to do that on a touchscreen :P21:50
qwazix_you can press the activities button21:51
qwazix_which reminds me of maemo21:51
M4rtinKwell, there is a bit of any mobile platform in Gnome 321:51
qwazix_but it doesn't work very well with touch, I don't know why21:51
M4rtinKthe switches come from Harmattan21:51
M4rtinKcombined menu in 3.10 from Android21:51
M4rtinKnotifications and blue/red buttons from webOS :)21:52
M4rtinKBTW, turns out GTK3 has a Hildon-style window stack :)21:52
qwazix_Gnome 3 has one thing that the UI designers deserve a lot of praise for: it's very easy to adopt21:53
M4rtinKif only was GTK not so damned API-unstable21:53
M4rtinKyeah, surprisingly21:53
M4rtinKthe early versions have been almost unusable21:54
qwazix_I switched a couple of people at work to linux, and they adapted in less than a week to the new UI21:54
qwazix_it's simple enough without beeing primitive21:54
M4rtinKbut since 3.6 or 3.8 I have no issues using it with just a few extensions and it is my desktop both at work and at home21:54
qwazix_I prefer Unity @work21:55
M4rtinKas a result I try to use the hot corner on any machine now :P21:55
qwazix_just because of the HUD. It's a pain to search through GIMP's menus for a specific function21:55
faenilI got rid of gnome after the update to f20 broke my system21:55
faenil(because of gnome segfault at boot)21:56
qwazix_if you have every conceivable extension enabled21:56
M4rtinKwindows, games, KDE (well, there it shows ALL windows on all workspaces by default)...21:56
qwazix_but the home laptop has gnome, easier on the eyes and *much* faster21:56
M4rtinKfaenil: from 19 to 20 ?21:56
qwazix_(btw Mac OS has a configurable hot corner that can be set to open a similar overview)21:57
faenilI had to install and setup xfce from recovery cli!21:57
M4rtinKfaenil: if you still have any logs it might be worth to fill a bug21:57
faenilM4rtinK, it was months ago21:57
faenilbut I already had issues with gnome chewing up all my RAM after a few days of resume/suspend (probably a huge memory leak)21:58
M4rtinK/var/log/fedup.log :)21:58
faenilnow I'm a happy xfce user :) finally something which doesn't clog my system21:58
M4rtinKI don|t have issues with Shell itself leaking21:59
faenilM4rtinK, let's see21:59
M4rtinKbut with other apps leaking and making shell stop responding21:59
M4rtinKlike Evolution or Virt Manager21:59
faenil[    50.896] (II) fedup:<module>() /usr/bin/fedup exiting cleanly at Sat Jan  4 18:44:54 201421:59
qwazix_Evolution (and pretty much every mail client) cannot handle my huge gmail inbox22:00
qwazix_but especially evolution dragged the computer with it22:00
qwazix_shame because it's my favorite mail client22:01
M4rtinKfaenil: hmm, that doesn't say much22:01
faenilM4rtinK, no it doesn't22:01
faenilthe version was gnome-shell-
M4rtinKfaenil: I'Ve checked mine and I have there everything - fedup depsolving, downloading packages & installing them22:02
faenilM4rtinK, yes of course I only pasted last line :P22:02
faenilit's a huge file, 4.7k packages22:02
M4rtinKI would suspect some breakage during package installation22:04
M4rtinKanyway I have version 3.10.4 release 5.fc20 on a freshly updated F2022:05
M4rtinKso it might have been fixed since then22:05
M4rtinKalso there is a COPR (the Fedora PPA equivalent) for Gnome 3.12:
M4rtinKuse at own risk of course :)22:07
qwazix_btw Gnome shell desperately needs Mac OS style multitouch gestures...22:07
M4rtinKwell, first it needs some compatible multitouch hardware to run on :D22:08
M4rtinKwell, maybe on some touchscreen notebooks22:08
M4rtinKoh god, no clickpads22:08
qwazix_(unity is a lost cause, it does have the support, it hijacks it and does nothing with it)22:08
M4rtinKit is enough how clickpads ruined the latest THinkpads22:08
qwazix_even the three-finger move window gesture was removed22:09
M4rtinKwho needs separate buttons with tactile feedback22:09
qwazix_and still you can't use touchegg or something because unity eats up the gestures22:09
M4rtinKif you can use a trap trigger from an old RPG :P22:09
qwazix_I like good clickpads22:10
M4rtinK(the latest Thinkpad clickpads move vertically when you click)22:10
qwazix_but *very* few are good22:10
M4rtinKno idea where GTK3 is with gesture support22:10
M4rtinKor Gnome22:10
qwazix_when activities are open it eats the gestures, but does nothing22:11
qwazix_otherwise it just ignores them22:11
qwazix_(at least you can use emulation software)22:11
qwazix_but emulation is not as good as real gestures22:12
qwazix_for example you can't just peek the next workspace, only switch22:12
M4rtinKI've been actually only using pinch to zoom in my apps so far22:13
M4rtinKdue to how hard gestures are to get right22:14
M4rtinKmainly due to discoverability22:14
M4rtinKeven a long press is a problem22:14
qwazix_yeah, gestures should mostly be either system wide, or redundant22:14
M4rtinKhow do you communicate it to the users ?22:14
M4rtinKnot mentioning a counterclockwise 5 finger rotation22:15
qwazix_old symbian had a nice animation for long press22:15
qwazix_an expanding circle when you touched22:15
M4rtinKOpera has/had that circular progressbar22:16
qwazix_yeah, that too22:16
qwazix_it all originated from old Windows Mobile if i'm not mistaken22:16
M4rtinKthat reminds me of the swirl zoom on the N900 :)22:16
qwazix_WM5 or maybe even WM3 had something similar22:16
M4rtinKthat was a nice gesture, shame it was not system wide22:16
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qwazix_yeah, I liked that very much22:17
qwazix_easier to do one-handed than pinch, and with more accuracy too22:17
M4rtinKI think it still has merit for some use cases22:17
M4rtinKlike single hand operation22:17
M4rtinKI think I even found some open source game that implemented the swirl detection algorithm22:18
M4rtinKfound it:
qwazix_cool, I didn't know that22:23
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qwazix_have a good night. o/22:27
faenilM4rtinK, I ported that game to bb during one of the portathons, lol22:29
faenilnot sure if I published it though, as landscape locking via manifest wasn't working at that time22:30
Sfiet_Konstantinhi faenil22:34
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