Saturday, 2016-02-27

faenilpavelm_ left... mm00:09
M4rtinK2faenil: I *think* that was probably Pavel Machek00:15
faenilM4rtinK2: I hope he comes back :) thanks for the headsup00:15
M4rtinK2faenil: he is running mainline kernel on his N900 & contributes to N900 kernel mainlining00:16
faenilI see...00:16
M4rtinK2I saw his talk about that back in November00:16
faenilcool stuff00:16
M4rtinK2pretty interesting00:16
M4rtinK2sure00:16
faenillet's hope he tries again tomorrow ;)00:16
M4rtinK2but unfortunately still not that usable00:17
M4rtinK2hopefully00:17
M4rtinK2he should be in the EU timezone00:17
M4rtinK2so no wonder he went offline00:17
faenil:)00:18
M4rtinK2it might actually also be a good idea to hit the deck :)00:19
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locusfm2ko: eekkelund: any other reports than status bar size increase?10:51
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faenillocusf: I'm going to build Nemo with OE today :) or, well, try to get it to build12:15
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locusffaenil: cool :)12:48
faenillocusf: finally received the hdd enclosure, can free some hdd space, because that was my problem XD12:49
locusfhahah yes12:51
locusfthose multiple source trees do kinda get pretty big12:52
locusffaenil: just ping my way if you need help, kido too13:08
kido:)13:09
faenillocusf: any known blocker?13:09
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locusffaenil: hmm14:01
locusfI don't really know14:01
locusfother than we don't have that many bsp's14:01
faenillocusf: I'll be building for n95014:02
locusfok14:02
locusfI hope I got something to git in order to help your work14:03
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tbrhmm, if we have something for N950, I'd give it a try14:06
faeniltbr: well, we have images built with mic, but I want to get OE (mainly because of Qt5.6) building an image for n95014:10
faenilso that I can resume the work on glacier components14:10
tbrah14:11
tbrnice idea14:11
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tbrespecially if you have the machine to pull this off on14:11
tbroe is hungry hungry hippo14:12
faeniltbr: I'm trying to get rid of a 320gb image I have on my hdd to make space for hacking experiments14:13
faenilbut it's got 7h left....14:13
tbrugh14:13
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locusfmy image builds generally take 20 minutes from clean14:53
locusfbut it fails since the rpi2 egl headers are wrong14:53
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faenillocusf: how can it take 20mins? you have to compile Qt, webkit, everything15:02
locusf750 raid1 + -j815:03
locusfoe is good at parallelizing15:04
locusf(dunno if thats we way to say it)15:04
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faenillocusf: j8 is nowhere near enough to build a whole OS in 20mins15:06
faenilyou can *maybe* build only webkit, in 20mins, with j815:06
locusfhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZ_f35bVFCM15:06
locusfthe video sucks since its just systemd15:07
locusfhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ua4AP67yppk15:10
locusfmemory -> nvme ssd15:10
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locusfhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Wlqz_wMHI015:11
locusfmy old desktop15:12
locusfz7715:12
faenillocusf: no caching? I can't believe that15:16
locusfwell all caching is done by zfs I can say that15:16
faenilI mean if you have cached object files then surely it can take 20 mins15:17
faenilbut that's not "from scratch"15:17
locusfwell there aren't any15:18
locusfI did rm -rf tmp-glibc15:18
locusfah bloody hell15:18
locusfit starts compiling some after fetch15:18
locusfbut still15:18
locusflemme time that in a moment15:19
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faenillocusf: did you publish the n950 OE files anywhere?16:16
locusfI did16:16
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locusfcheck my oe branches on my profile16:17
faeniloki thanks16:17
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pavelm_Hello, everyone.16:43
pavelm_..and sorry for leaving without saying goodbye yesterday.16:43
pavelm_M4rtinK2, faenil: Yes, that's me. And yes, EU time zone.16:44
faenilpavelm_: o/16:44
M4rtinK2hi! :)16:44
faenilno worries :)16:44
pavelm_M4rtinK2: and ... the n900 _is _ getting better. Can even do voice calls now ;-).16:44
pavelm_M4rtin: Hi!16:45
M4rtinK2cool! :)16:45
faenilpavelm_: filippz spent a lot of time on n950's kernel, he first worked on 3.5.3, which is what we're using, and months ago he started focusing on v4.X mainline support for n950 :)16:45
M4rtinK2I think it was still one-way back in November :)16:45
pavelm_Its just that... I now got n9/n950, too, and am wondering what to do with them. I'd prefer something usable so that I could focus on N900, but....16:46
faenilpavelm_: let's hope Sony speeds up upstreaming of xperia devices, that would be super cool :)16:46
pavelm_faenil: I have not seen any real progress there :-(. Samsung is doing something, that might be usable sooner.16:46
faenilpavelm_: mm no, we can't give you something to use as daily driver, sorry :/16:46
* M4rtinK2 would also like to give his N950 a new life :)16:46
faenilpavelm_: no progress on Sony's side? they seem quite proactive :/16:47
faenilworking on 4.x support..16:47
pavelm_faenil: I did not see anything reasonable, but I don't watch that closely.16:47
faenilok16:47
locusfhttp://developer.sonymobile.com/2016/02/17/work-on-the-mainline-kernel-for-open-xperia-devices/16:47
pavelm_faenil: N950 should be in pretty good shaepe.16:47
faenilpavelm_: the kernel maybe, not Nemo16:47
faenilnot even sure you can make calls on 3.5.3 btw16:48
faenil(on n950)16:48
M4rtinK2what about Nemo images ? are there any recent ones for the N950 ?16:49
pavelm_locusf: Well... Sony... cool, but they don't even have graphics and wifi, and they don't even mention GSM/UMTS...16:50
faenilnot uploaded, but you can build one easily, the kickstarter file is at my repo16:50
M4rtinK2pavelm_: well they at least mentioned working on Freedreno16:50
locusfpavelm_: for graphics theres freedreno16:50
locusfyeah16:50
pavelm_What is the "canonical" hardware to run Nemo on? Jolla?16:53
locusfheh16:53
locusfwell fp2 is the newest16:53
locusfJolla port is not for the faint of heart16:53
pavelm_N9/N950 seems to be pretty useless without nokia servers. I can't even get terminal installed :-(. But it has need for speed...16:54
locusfhttps://locusf.wordpress.com/2014/12/11/nemo-mobile-distribution-installation-on-a-jolla-device/16:54
pavelm_So... N950 is still the best hardware to run Nemo on, but could not be recommended for daily use?16:54
M4rtinK2pavelm_: IIRC is is possible to use third party mirrors to get around that16:55
pavelm_I had Nemo on N900, and it was surprisingly usable... (but a dead end due to graphics).16:55
M4rtinK2pavelm_: https://openrepos.net/content/ancelad/n9-repomirror16:55
* filippz reads backlog16:57
faenilpavelm_: the problem is, we're missing a reliable UI toolkit, let alone core apps16:57
faenilpavelm_: I think that was when Jolla sailors were basically developing the core apps16:58
faenilbut they haven't been touched since16:58
pavelm_M4: Yes, I found and installed n9repomirror_0.7.2_armel.deb , and some stuff can be installed, but could not find any terminal :-(17:00
faenilwe've been blocked for a couple of years because of the Nemo-Mer merge happening17:00
locusfwaking up from hibernation :)17:01
faenilhehe17:02
pavelm_faenil: Qt5 does not work well? I'm using python+gtk3+X11 on N900. That's rather old stuff, but seems to work well.17:02
faenilpavelm_: it does, you still have to develop apps though...17:02
pavelm_I don't need that many apps. Give me keyboard, emacs, mutt, web browser, ofono client and I'll be mostly happy...17:03
pavelm_faenil: is it easy to run gtk3 applications? (Perhaps under X11 emulation?)17:04
M4rtinK2well the possibility of the Jolla apps & Silica being open sourced is still being discussed17:04
M4rtinK2but in any case I would not bet on that17:05
M4rtinK2at least for now17:05
locusfhttp://images.devaamo.fi/nemo/n9/nemo-armv7hl-rnd-02272016.tar.bz217:05
M4rtinK2pavelm_: I started rebuilding GTK3 packages from Fedora on the Mer OBS a while ago, but haven't got very far17:05
faenilpavelm_: I don't think anyone has ever tried17:05
M4rtinK2pavelm_: https://build.merproject.org/project/show/home:MartinK:sailfish:gtk3-f2217:06
faenillocusf: oh so we do have an updated image :)17:06
faenilthat should go on the wiki :)17:06
M4rtinK2locusf: cool! :)17:06
r0kk3rzthere was some work into wayland anyway17:06
r0kk3rzxwayland17:06
* M4rtinK2 is connecting his N95017:07
M4rtinK2r0kk3rz: well, GTK3 should work fine with Wayland only17:07
filippzregarding an image - I thing that we still don't have a solution for statefs (http://www.merproject.org/logs/%23mer/%23mer.2016-01-19.log.html#t2016-01-19T23:25:24)17:10
pavelm_locusf: Thanks for the link.17:10
filippzif I understand it correctly kmod got updated but systemd didn't - hence they don't work well together17:10
pavelm_M4: Well.. there's still chance to run fedora (or debian) in chroot ;-)17:11
faenilfilippz: yeah I think that's what happened17:11
pavelm_What is "silica"?17:12
filippzand without statefs we don't have battery information and other sensor related stuff :/17:12
M4rtinK2pavelm_: the Qt Quick component set used on Sailfish OS17:13
M4rtinK2pavelm_: https://sailfishos.org/develop/docs/silica/17:13
filippzI think we should really think about next target device(s)17:13
pavelm_M4: thanks!17:13
M4rtinK2np :)17:13
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r0kk3rzfilippz: i think pi2 was suggested at fosdem17:15
M4rtinK2what about VMs ?17:15
locusfargh vms17:16
M4rtinK2having a working VM image could help a lot17:16
M4rtinK2especially to application developers17:16
locusfI started to look at VMs before FOSDEM 2015, then forgot17:16
locusfyeah17:16
filippzVM could prove really useful17:18
M4rtinK2the easier it is for people to run Nemo17:18
M4rtinK2in any form17:18
pavelm_VMs make sense.17:18
M4rtinK2the more likely it is people will contribute17:18
faenilyeah...17:18
pavelm_qemu should have reasonable support for N900, maybe it can support N950 too?17:18
M4rtinK2for example I would like to try running modRana & Universal Components on Nemo17:19
r0kk3rzM4rtinK2: should work with qtcontols just fine17:20
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pavelm_Ideally, the applications should be usable on desktop, too. (You still want your address book). Should make development easier, too.17:20
M4rtinK2r0kk3rz: yep, but a Glacier backend for UC might be also nice ;-)17:21
M4rtinK2pavelm_: I wrote this: https://github.com/M4rtinK/universal-components17:21
M4rtinK2pavelm_: if you use that instead of a specific component set, you can run your app on mobiles & desktop without the need for app code changes17:22
M4rtinK2more or less :)17:22
pavelm_M4: Nice!17:22
pavelm_M4: Actually, i'd be ok with application running on desktop but using phone widgets. It does not have to be perfect, just good enough for development.17:23
M4rtinK2currently covers Silica & Qt Quick Controls component sets17:23
filippzlocusf: regarding Pi2 - do you have some sort of BOM for tablet? Ie what else besides Pi2 itself do I need?17:24
M4rtinK2tha covers Sailfish OS (Silica) and Nemo/Desktop/Android (Controls)17:24
r0kk3rzM4rtinK2: faenil wants to qtcontrols2 the components so no point yet17:24
faenil:)17:24
M4rtinK2r0kk3rz: I guess that makes sense17:24
M4rtinK2r0kk3rz: also I guess making a Controls2 UC backend could be also useful :)17:25
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locusffilippz: it needs the official touchscreen17:38
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locusffilippz: or well, just run it via hdmi17:39
locusfits not really that necessary17:39
locusfkeyboard + mouse do work17:39
locusfor at least _should_17:39
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deztructor_filippz: what it is the problem /w statefs? from the log you referencing faenil is interested where conf files are coming from. If so, they are updated by the package in the postinstall phase, see statefs.spec17:49
faenildeztructor_: but systemd fails to parse them17:50
faenil(as you can see in the log)17:50
faenilI don't even remember how that discussion is related to statefs, fwiw :)17:51
faeniloh, I think they're two separate discussions...17:52
filippzlocusf: thanks17:53
deztructor_systemd fails to parse? it should be just basic env setup files var=value17:54
filippzfaenil, destructor_: statfs can't start without no conf files, as systemd refuses to start it17:55
filippzI'm not sure what should create those conf files - I figured that it might have something in common17:55
faenilfilippz: though this is not related to the /run/tmpfiles.d/kmod.conf:2] Can't parse device file major/minor '- 10:236' error...is it?17:56
faenil(that's what your link points to)17:56
deztructor_just because it uses standard EnvironmentFile=/etc/sysconfig/statefs/*.conf17:56
deztructor_it should be fine17:56
deztructor_systemd service file has std directive to use env file17:57
filippzwe don't have anything in /etc/sysconfig/statefs/ and systemd wont' start because of it17:57
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filippzare those conf files meant to come from some package or created at runtime ?17:59
deztructor_they are created by package, see statefs.spec17:59
deztructor_of course, you can just use EnvironmentFile=-<path_here>18:00
deztructor_but it'd be better to setup env vars properly18:00
deztructor_while it should use some default values (and these values are not universally suitable)18:01
filippzthey seem to be missing from https://git.merproject.org/mer-core/statefs-qt/blob/master/rpm/statefs-qt5.spec18:02
filippzmaybe they should be packaged somewhere else18:02
eekkelundlocusf: No other reports18:04
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deztructor_filippz: statefs-qt are client libs to access statefs, and statefs service code is https://git.merproject.org/mer-core/statefs18:09
locusfeekkelund: ok18:12
filippzdeztructor_: thanks, that makes more sense :)18:18
pavelm_locusf: I don't think Rapsbery  Pi is great idea.18:37
locusfpavelm_: I know18:37
pavelm_...you'd need quite a lot of peripherals to have something usable.18:37
locusfyeah18:37
pavelm_...and then debug the hardware. Best if someone else does that :-)18:38
locusfif I get some of that sony mainline effort useable with fp218:38
locusfthen thats the different story18:38
pavelm_What's wrong with N950?18:38
locusftoo old18:38
pavelm_Well... old is good. It means that there's at least chance for mainline support ;-)18:38
pavelm_(My main complaint would be "no SD card slot")18:39
filippzpavelm_: If interesed, these are patches for N9 (and N950 to some extent) for mainline - https://www.dropbox.com/s/ogx2nbzoxfdhal6/linux.tar.bz2?dl=118:53
pavelm_filippz: I believe mainline support for n950  should be pretty good already.18:56
pavelm_I guess GPS would be reverse engineered.18:58
pavelm_...and bluetooth cleaner up and merged...18:58
pavelm_filipz: ok, it seems there's some more stuff missing.19:04
pavelm_filipz: Against which version are they?19:04
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filippzpavelm_: IIRC 4.5-rc419:23
filippzon N950 primary concern is display support19:24
filippzthen BME on both19:24
filippzand of course PVR stuff is not great - I get timeouts and those kinds of things19:25
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faenillocusf: is this all I need ? https://github.com/locusf/meta-n95019:59
pavelm_filippz: BME is power management?20:01
M4rtinK2I *think* it stands for Battery Management Entity20:10
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faenilpavelm_: what M4rtinK2 says20:19
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pavelm_Heh, actually power management is biggest problem on n900 too. It refuses to sleep in my config, so battery life is poor.20:39
pavelm_And the video... its said. Not even my desktop runs Wayland. And yes I think I do have accelerated graphics, but my desktop would be ok with framebuffer.20:39
pavelm_And now... qt5 on cellphone means it needs the latest and greatest graphics technology :-(20:40
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faenilpavelm_: I don't think it was qt5 that required the move to wayland. It was because X11 is just a pita to work with and is a big beast. Wayland is the future, hence Jolla opened the trail20:42
faenilit could have been that they were forced to move for some other reason that I don't remember atm, though20:43
faenilw00t surely knows ^20:43
pavelm_Yes, I know wayland is the future. But I guess my cellphone should wait to enter the future after my desktop does ;-).20:49
pavelm_Ok, its true that all the acceleration looks really cool.20:49
r0kk3rzfaenil: pretty sure it was hybris that made them use wayland20:52
faenilr0kk3rz: oki20:52
faenilthanks20:52
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M4rtinK2actually there mobile UI usecases where GPU acceleration help quite a bit20:59
M4rtinK2like kinetic scrolling20:59
M4rtinK2various feedback animations also help if used correctly20:59
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