Thursday, 2017-04-13

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SergeyChupliginThttps://github.com/neochapay/qtquickcontrols-nemo/blob/theming/src/controls/theme.h add theming prototype05:56
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eetuTelegram[m]👌Nice !:)06:44
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locusfgood :)06:53
kimmoliwhat's the e5 ?06:55
eetuTelegram[m]Copypaste accident ?:D06:59
SergeyChupliginTooops07:03
SergeyChupliginTfix :)07:06
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FabioIsgrTelegragood morning all08:36
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mal@SergeyChupliginT after that there is the huge task of replacing the hardcoded values everywhere in the current code08:58
SergeyChupliginTyeap...not huge...just big :))))09:07
NeoChapaywhy on matrix show my nick show as "SergeyChupligin" i have normal alias @neochapay like irc....09:08
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locusfits due to the matrix integration to telegram09:43
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locusfhttps://asteroidos.org/wiki/porting-guide/ if anyone likes to take a try at porting with open embedded to regular mobile devices, kido has made a swell tutorial09:52
eetuTelegram[m]Nice !09:52
stephgcool09:55
locusfthe process is potentially 1:109:56
qwazixSergeyChupliginT, yep, will do09:59
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qwazixmal, I'd do last view visible as default09:59
qwazixbe back in a while10:01
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mal@SergeyChupliginT should the themeing also contain the background image support or something11:19
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NeoChapayqwazix: i did not forget any constants11:28
NeoChapay?11:28
NeoChapaymal: i thnik background set in setting application not in theme...or not ?11:29
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malNeoChapay: could be11:39
qwazixNeoChapay, about what?11:46
qwazixtheme.h?11:47
malI think that11:51
qwazixI think that the text constants should be QML elements with size, weight and transform set, instead of using size as a constant11:53
qwazixso that you just use NormalText { text: "Hello World!" } instead of having to remember to set Text { text: "Hello World!"; font.pointSize: theme.fontSizeMedium; font.weight: Font.Light }11:56
malqwazix: well we should normally use Label which should have the default values set already and then if user wants something different then that can be set11:57
qwazixokay, maybe I'm suggesting too much abstraction. Then it seems fine. We can always add values later.11:59
malhttps://github.com/neochapay/qtquickcontrols-nemo/blob/theming/src/controls/Label.qml11:59
qwazixyep, no need for another level12:00
qwazixThis was an early idea for a dialer (before glacier was a thing) http://play.qwazix.com/grog/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/newNemoFirstGlance.png12:05
qwazixI'd really like to have an option to neural-style all the contact avatars (https://github.com/jcjohnson/neural-style)12:09
malqwazix: did you ever make any message app design or mockup12:11
qwazixmal, don't think so. Let me search though12:13
malI think it's quite important to have at least a working apps for calling and messages so the basic usage of a mobile phone can be achieved12:15
qwazixYou are right, I'm starting work on those right away.12:16
malqwazix: at least some kind of preliminary design to use for initial implementation, the dialer app work already but has no proper appearance12:19
qwazixmal, won't take long12:25
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malas I was investigating the permission issues yesterday I was thinking if we should have the needed permissions included for each glacier app separately or in some central file with all of the base apps?13:14
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qwazixmal, I was giving a thought to that and I think that what we really need to do is fix the underlying issue. Treat the device as a phone, not as a server. On phones (and personal computers for that matter) controlling the hardware is done by the user depending on the circumstances, there must be a way to allow the user to turn bluetooth on and off without requiring giving privileges to the settings app.13:34
malqwazix: well the issue is here https://git.merproject.org/mer-core/bluez/blob/master/bluez/plugins/jolla-dbus-access.c#L5913:35
qwazixNot only being unable to allow settings applets in an open OS is sub-optimal, but I'm sure there will be a security issue some time in the future from that design choice. The settings app has a huge attack surface13:35
malunless we rewrite a custom dbus plugin13:35
qwazixby privileged I was assuming root am I correct?13:38
malnot sure exactly, maybe it's not a real root13:38
malwe can define in configs which permissions each app needs13:38
eetuTelegram[m]Im concerned about security of giving priviledged access to settings app13:39
malthere is only certain set of permissions13:39
maleetuTelegram[m]: but not having any control is even worse imo13:39
qwazixeetuTelegram[m],  I was expressing the same thing but if it's a special uid which has a bit more power that the uid running other apps it might be okay13:39
malqwazix: I think it's gid not uid13:39
qwazixmal, yep, I can see that now13:40
qwazixdo we know how jolla is handling the granular permissions thingie?13:41
malqwazix: "Each line consists of the full path to an application followed by a comma and then a list of permissions. Valid permission categories are: a = accounts/signon data, c = calendar data, e = email data, h = communication history data, i = image data, l = location/gps data, m = messaging data, n = events/notifications data, p = people/contacts data, r = rpm packages data, s = settings data, u = multim13:41
maledia/music/video data"13:41
malso quite limited stuff can be made with those afaik13:42
qwazixmal, implementation-wise, running everything under different uid/gid?13:42
qwazixI never thought I'd say that but was aegis OSS?13:42
eetuTelegram[m]How permissions are checked? DAC is not 'enough' imo :D13:48
malqwazix: those apps run as the normal nemo user but with a separate group13:49
qwazixmal, got it13:49
qwazixeetuTelegram[m], if the settings gid isn't root and just gives access to wifi/bt on off then it's not too bad, is it?13:51
malqwazix: we also need to give it some other of those permissions I listed but none are really bad13:52
eetuTelegram[m]qwazix, yeah just got it. It is not that bad, always could be better:) i can study this13:53
qwazixmal, and there are enough groups to address all possible combinations of those permissions?13:54
qwazix(I just think that a 50yo permission system is starting to be inadequate for modern uses)13:56
malqwazix: just one groups afaik, something is checking if the permissions for that specific feature are set in the configuration14:05
qwazixah, okay, let's not speculate more if eetuTelegram[m] is willing to study it. Though if it's not terrible I'm not inclined to deviate from jolla's implementation. More work for us and possible compatibility nightmare with sailfish apps14:08
malqwazix: I think it would cause a lot of changes to move to some other permission method14:09
qwazixyep14:10
eetuTelegram[m]Reply to qwazix (IRC):14:16
eetuTelegram[m]>qwazix (IRC): (I just think that a 50yo permission system is starting to be inadequate for modern uses)14:16
eetuTelegram[m]MAC ?;D14:16
qwazixmac as in macOS or am I missing something?14:22
qwazixalso, http://qwazix.com/shared/nemo/dialer.pdf14:22
malqwazix: looks good, what is the point of that top part if there is a separate log?14:25
qwazixautocomplete14:26
malah14:26
qwazixdefault state is empty14:26
NeoChapayqwazix: add to wiki :)14:33
qwazixNeoChapay, it's just a first draft. I have two more pages to do and I'm sure there will be some revision. I'll add to wiki once done.14:34
qwazixfor now please share comments/ideas14:35
NeoChapayqwazix: on top tabs or some else ?14:36
qwazixwhatever. If we discuss it now we won't have to change it later14:37
SamTelegram[m]So is Swordfish OS & Turing Phone boiling snake oil?14:39
eetuTelegram[m]Reply to Sam (Telegram):14:50
eetuTelegram[m]>So is Swordfish OS & Turing Phone boiling snake oil?14:50
eetuTelegram[m]Seems like that:D14:50
eetuTelegram[m]qwazix: Mandatory access control :)14:54
eetuTelegram[m]There should be seperate keyboard made for numbers14:55
eetuTelegram[m]I have been boing nemo maliit keyboard:) scaling mainly14:56
eetuTelegram[m]Seperate keyboard layout for numbers* Like in that dialer14:57
maldoes that need to be a maliit keyboard14:58
malsince that is supposed to be always visible14:58
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qwazixmal, it shouldn't be IMO, but a number layout is needed anyway.15:05
qwazixI think we should just steal one though. No need to innovate there.15:05
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malqwazix: yes, we could have some generic number layout for that and pin query for example?15:07
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qwazixmal, pin query is also static, could use the dialer layout (i.e. not maliit), but maliit still needs a number layout for numeric inputs15:09
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malqwazix: yes, that's what I meant15:11
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qwazixso, I'll rip out the keypad from the dialer and commit it to glacier-controls-spec as static-numpad15:12
malqwazix: the current dialer is very bad looking so needs to be fixed before that15:13
qwazixI meant from the dialer mockup15:13
malsure15:13
malmisread the glacier-controls-spec as the actual implementation repo :)15:14
qwazix:nod:15:14
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qwazixhttp://qwazix.com/shared/numpad-static.pdf15:42
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qwazixand updated phone mockup http://qwazix.com/shared/phone.pdf15:59
SamTelegram[m]I dig it :)16:06
SamTelegram[m]I think we could use iconography on the top instead of words though16:06
SamTelegram[m]And I think there's enough room to put the entire phone number without affecting visibility16:07
* SamTelegram[m] uploaded an image: Image_1492099705103.jpg (56KB) - https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/tchncs.de/aXfiVDvMCBoFoXSEbpXunmUO16:07
SamTelegram[m]maybe like this16:07
SamTelegram[m]I don't know how we could present the icons on the top nicely giving a feedback to swipe though16:07
SamTelegram[m]I also liked the faint gray color you had in some of your concepts16:08
* SamTelegram[m] uploaded an image: Image_1492099881776.jpg (61KB) - https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/tchncs.de/aZzSwJNTVETSzGmCdyICwmuu16:10
SamTelegram[m]Gives a nice sense of UI hierarchy16:11
SamTelegram[m]where's the call button though?16:14
qwazixSamTelegram[m], there is, I just thought I'd emphasize the last few digits as usually that's what people use to distinguish phone numbers16:15
SamTelegram[m]Ah16:15
malwell most people would select the numbers from contact list and not from that16:15
qwazixYou're right. There's no way to call the number as typed :P16:16
maland use dialer only for unknown numbers16:16
SamTelegram[m]how will we deal with SIP and multiple simcards?16:16
qwazixgood questions. That's why we need discussion. Let me think about that...16:17
malprobably some setting in settings app to determine which sim to use for calls or something16:17
mallike on jolla phone16:17
mal*jolla c16:18
qwazixWhy did you change little milo's name?16:18
qwazix:-)16:18
SamTelegram[m]N9's solution to that seems pretty elegant but I don't know if we have room for it16:18
malno idea what SIP is :)16:18
qwazixmal Voip16:18
* SamTelegram[m] uploaded an image: Image_1492100393552.jpg (19KB) - https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/tchncs.de/ORiRJCAZHLsahAqfEezCxnja16:18
SamTelegram[m]You tap the top and you change between SIP, skype or mobile data16:18
qwazixi.e. phones that are chars, not digits16:18
SamTelegram[m]mobile call*16:18
qwazixthere's lots of space, the numpad is huge, we can make it smaller16:20
malthe numpad could be something like half of the screen16:20
* SamTelegram[m] uploaded an image: Image_1492100593655.jpg (23KB) - https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/tchncs.de/HVEerNWzZRELYQukFLMCFewR16:22
SamTelegram[m]maybe less than that16:22
SamTelegram[m]there's still enough padding16:22
qwazix/home/qwazix/projects/glacier/glacier-apps/phone/phone.pdf16:24
qwazixsorry16:24
qwazixhttp://qwazix.com/shared/phone.pdf16:24
SamTelegram[m]I think maybe a drop down button right before the dialer16:26
SamTelegram[m]besides the dialer*16:26
malwe also need to check how the sim card for example is even selected in code level16:27
qwazixAnd for typing text there should be a (universal) way of forcing the keyboard up16:28
qwazixgtg, seeya later16:30
* SamTelegram[m] uploaded an image: Image_1492101098664.jpg (71KB) - https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/tchncs.de/aLFiiBjVleGKzRchiUwrWDbN16:30
SamTelegram[m]aye16:30
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* SamTelegram[m] uploaded an image: Image_1492101885701.jpg (64KB) - https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/tchncs.de/gMInKpxDdvxxFcvrXzRtNAqq16:43
SamTelegram[m]padding is really unoptimal but I was thinking something like this16:43
eetuTelegram[m]Also messaging app should have support different telepathy accounts/plugins :)16:49
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locusfwhaa..17:12
locusfits done already?17:12
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mal@eetuTelegram[m]: let's not make it too complex at first17:24
eetuTelegram[m]Well it should be designed that in mind :)17:31
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SamTelegram[m]What are we using for the backend of the messaging app17:33
malqwazix: for the numpad there wuold have been another option, having the letter below the number17:53
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SamTelegram[m]SIP uses numbers18:05
SamTelegram[m]other VOIP services should call numbers by default, only use names if they are in your contact list18:06
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qwazixSamTelegram[m], SIP uses both and sometimes it's useful to be able to use names (in case you don't remember the number)18:55
qwazixmal, yep but I find it more elegant like this18:57
malqwazix: ok18:57
SamTelegram[m]I like your design a lot18:58
qwazixthanks, I'll play with it a bit more to iron out rough edges18:58
SamTelegram[m]But I think that the font between contact name and location should have the same font size, just different height18:58
SamTelegram[m]makes padding symmetrical18:58
SamTelegram[m]different font weight*18:58
SamTelegram[m]and use icons on the top instead of text19:00
qwazixthe tabbed view of the header isn't implemented yet is it?19:02
locusfshould be19:03
locusfok I suppose not19:04
qwazixok, good. We're ditching it :P19:06
SamTelegram[m]http://ionicons.com/19:13
SamTelegram[m]Do we have a set of icons for contexts of the interface yet?19:14
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qwazixthose icons look good, I suppose we could modify some of them if they are OSS19:35
qwazixcheck this out again http://qwazix.com/shared/phone.pdf19:35
qwazixyeah it says MIT up there19:36
qwazixThis approach also solves the problem of which account is used to call when on the other pages, since the header is independent of the pages19:41
qwazixIt also solves the problem of adding more settings if required19:41
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SamTelegram[m]the license is pretty neat, MIT19:49
SamTelegram[m]a small icon besides the dialer textbox would be more ideal19:50
SamTelegram[m]the average user would almost never really change that19:50
SamTelegram[m]putting contacts/log/etc on the top would be hard to reach for such a essential feature if we drop swipes19:51
SamTelegram[m]small icon besides the dialer for changing simcards/services*19:52
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malqwazix: there is some tabbed view already but it has the tabs under the header19:58
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qwazixmal, in this mockups the tabs are controlled by the buttons on the header20:23
qwazixdo you think that's easy to do?20:23
qwazixalso I'd like everybody's opinion on this: should the contacts page in the phone app and the contacts app be one thing or two separate things?20:24
qwazixhttp://qwazix.com/shared/phone.pdf20:25
qwazixthis one supposes they are two different things, and so keeps things focused on voice20:25
qwazixgtg, talk later20:26
malqwazix: that's a good question, the phone app would become quite complex if it would contain the contacts app also20:26
qwazixSamTelegram[m], that's why it's in the header: it's closed by default. I'm just showing it open here.20:27
qwazixalso I don't think we need to drop swipes with this layout20:28
qwazixanyway, later20:28
SamTelegram[m]contacts app would also contain contacts from other services that are not telephony20:37
SamTelegram[m]email contacts, etc20:37
SamTelegram[m]they can share the same mobile, just use a simple attrib to query contacts with phone in the phone app20:37
SamTelegram[m]share the same module*20:37
malsomething like that probably20:42
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