Sunday, 2018-12-16

*** ChanServ sets mode: +v T402:32
*** Leif is now known as Guest7596008:12
*** ChanServ sets mode: +v T408:29
T4<meierrom> Leif_Erikson: Landscape mode is rather new thanks to @neochapay AFAIK :)09:32
T4<eekkelund> Landscape had been there quite long iirc :F09:52
T4<eekkelund> :D*09:52
T4<akaWolf> btw, what is happening here?10:17
T4<akaWolf> https://necunos.com/blog/necuno-solutions-and-nemo-mobile-collaboration/10:17
Guest75960Exiting stuff. My colleage has met them in Heldinki.10:42
T4<akaWolf> but what is from Nemo side?10:42
T4<akaWolf> Glacier is pretty in early stage of development10:42
Guest75960Yes, but my company and Necunos may leverage the communuty and push the development. We think about hosting a Nemo boot camp or hackathon.10:45
Guest75960I'm looking forward to have a new Nemo developer device.10:45
Guest75960Bay tve way: I don't know why I'm shown as Guest. I'm Leif10:46
T4<akaWolf> I think the best way to push dev is to commit something :D10:49
T4<akaWolf> also we need a roadmap10:53
Guest75960Indeed. We think about working on the convergence use case and contribute the solution. Further more, the Nemo and,Sailfish community needs an urgent update of the standard browser10:54
T4<akaWolf> in SFOS too hard to do something10:55
T4<akaWolf> in Nemo we can up Qt version10:55
Guest75960Modern web apos are not working any more. It's a no go for a commercial product.10:55
T4<akaWolf> ofc. we need to ip gcc and qt versions10:56
T4<akaWolf> and use web engine from latest qt10:56
T4<akaWolf> up*10:56
Guest75960I think Sailfish 3 has done this, but only for develiprs using a web view based on the chrome engine. Unfortunately Jollahadn't updated the standard browser. But I think, the browser is open source and the community could updaze the app.10:59
T4<akaWolf> well if that app uses Silica it will not helpfull globally et all11:01
T4<akaWolf> I would concetrate at Nemo dev only, it's much more promising11:02
r0kk3rzsailfish browser is kinda at a dead end11:03
r0kk3rzand tbh nemo is a million miles from being ready for commercial product11:06
T4<akaWolf> that's true :)11:07
T4<akaWolf> but this is possible to done11:07
T4<akaWolf> I think few full-time devs can afford that11:08
r0kk3rzwell, you think of where sailfish is now, and realise they've had 50-100 full time employees working on it since 2013 ish11:11
r0kk3rzsome of that stuff nemo can leverage, a lot of it we cant11:12
T4<akaWolf> what do you mean?11:12
T4<akaWolf> I need to clarify that topic: they did a lot of wrong engineering errors11:13
T4<akaWolf> what results in many man-hours of dev, what can be leveraged otherwise11:14
T4<akaWolf> s/errors/solutions11:14
r0kk3rzengineering is about trade-offs, always, just because you don't understand the trade-off doesnt make it 'wrong'11:15
T4<akaWolf> oh cmon11:15
T4<akaWolf> forking instead of upstreaming11:15
T4<akaWolf> that's totally wrong decition11:16
r0kk3rzthey upstream quite a lot11:16
T4<akaWolf> s11:16
T4<akaWolf> but also not upstream much more11:16
r0kk3rzlots of patches went upstream to qt for insance11:16
r0kk3rz*instance11:16
T4<akaWolf> cool11:16
T4<akaWolf> but why they still have own fork of Qt?11:16
r0kk3rzjolla has always has a policy of getting things upstream11:16
T4<akaWolf> I saw when trying to add 802.1x...11:17
T4<akaWolf> connman not upstream11:17
T4<akaWolf> wps_supp also11:17
T4<akaWolf> Qt and so on11:17
T4<akaWolf> I can continue that list11:17
T4<akaWolf> why the hell they invent own Qt Creator11:18
T4<akaWolf> with VM11:18
T4<akaWolf> instead of crosscompiling11:18
r0kk3rzbecause windows and mac11:18
T4<akaWolf> there are Qt for Windows and Mac11:18
T4<akaWolf> take a look at Qt Creator fork11:22
T4<akaWolf> https://github.com/sailfishos/sailfish-qtcreator/commit/364605bbb1c2626e07db5289d865b2b74bc61b5e#diff-25d902c24283ab8cfbac54dfa101ad3111:22
T4<akaWolf> https://github.com/sailfishos/sailfish-qtcreator/commit/8ce8c5e3418647e5baa7edf24719266f240499e9#diff-25d902c24283ab8cfbac54dfa101ad3111:22
T4<akaWolf> very usefull changes and very required11:22
T4<akaWolf> all they have to is creating own plugin11:23
T4<akaWolf> which they would send to upstream11:23
T4<akaWolf> returning to our topic... I think just a few devs (not more five) is enough for getting Nemo dev to production state in one year11:25
r0kk3rzi also believe in faeries11:25
T4<akaWolf> :)11:25
T4<akaWolf> why exactly do you think I'm wrong11:26
r0kk3rzexperience11:28
T4<akaWolf> how much work needed by your estimation?11:31
r0kk3rzdepends, you need to choose your 'minimum viable product' carefully11:38
r0kk3rzif you want to compete with android and ios, theres a ton of stuff people expect to be there11:39
T4<akaWolf> yeah11:41
T4<akaWolf> but I dont think such compete is possible11:41
T4<akaWolf> just basic apps11:41
Guest75960We think about a migration path. Starting with a licensed Sailfish OS and replacing step by step the Lipstickvimplementation and core apps. So we can start with a short term product with a long term open source perspective.11:42
T4<akaWolf> when all is working why any should care about resources for replacing? :)11:43
T4<akaWolf> @r0kk3rz [if you want to compete with android and ios, t …], SFOS is also far far away from Android and iOS state...11:44
r0kk3rzthats my point, yeah11:44
T4<akaWolf> when I made my estimation a mean SFOS state11:46
T4<akaWolf> maybe a little better — adequate browser11:47
r0kk3rzalways with the estimations :P11:47
T4<akaWolf> :D11:47
T4<akaWolf> I'm not a manager, but yeah, I like estimations11:47
r0kk3rzsooner or later you stop planning world domination and just start dominating11:48
T4<akaWolf> I dont want to dominate et all11:48
T4<akaWolf> just want something usable11:48
T4<akaWolf> without closed sources11:48
T4<m_aurel> Hi together, we definately don't have the resources for Hardware Adaption and bringing Nemo Mobile to market maturity. So SFOS is currently the first option. Necunos is promising. They may provide a modern device, that supports Nemo Mobile. If a group of companies collaborate to make Nemo Mobile a mature platform, it could be possible. We12:05
T4'll work on this consortium. SFOS is ready for the consumer market but a high business risk. Depending on their strategy, they could cancel a licence anytime.12:05
T4<akaWolf> that's why you are planning to replace SFOS with Nemo, right?12:10
T4<m_aurel> Yes.12:10
T4<m_aurel> I will depend on the results of our contract negotiation.12:11
T4<m_aurel> The missing Android support if Nemo might be realised with AnBox. This works quite good on UBports.12:12
T4<m_aurel> Android support will be important to get a relevant market share in the consumer market.12:13
T4<akaWolf> what is the current state of Anbox?12:14
T4<akaWolf> do you check level of the integration into system?12:15
T4<m_aurel> I was able to install FDroid on a Fairphone 2 with UBports and install Andoird App conveniently. Yalp Store crashed while the logn process to Play Store.12:15
T4<m_aurel> Good question. I haven't checked the integration of user accounts yet, because Ubports has a poor set of system wide accounts, even no CardDav.12:16
T4<akaWolf> notifications12:17
T4<akaWolf> calls12:17
T4<akaWolf> app icon12:17
T4<NotKit> it does not have any integration at this state besides app icons in launcher12:17
T4<akaWolf> and so on12:17
T4<NotKit> but what Android apps would need calls for?12:17
T4<akaWolf> when you call in What's app12:19
T4<akaWolf> for example12:19
T4<akaWolf> no?12:19
T4<akaWolf> when you getting incoming call12:19
T4<NotKit> never tried that, but I think it does not use system dialer?12:19
T4<NotKit> at least Telegram does not12:20
T4<akaWolf> I mean it should have integration with the UI12:20
T4<akaWolf> so UI should know that there is a call in a process12:20
T4<m_aurel> I don't need any Andoird apps, but most comsumer do or expect. WhatsApp, banking apps, airline apps, remote controls for some devices like fitness tracker, smart home. There are many examples.12:21
T4<akaWolf> I agree.12:22
T4<samzn> I have had this idea to map Android components to native QtQuick ones but it's a gargantuan task I don't even know where to start12:58
r0kk3rzimo if you want android apps, its almost like developing two operating systems in one13:19
r0kk3rz@samzn im pretty sure theres material design style QML components somewhere13:22
T4<samzn> Yeah, ships in mainline Qt, but mapping them all over dalvik + something like apkenv is tough13:23
T4<samzn> While also retaining the expected behavior for them13:23
T4<samzn> Anbox is an easy way to support them13:24
r0kk3rznot sure i understand what you want to achieve there13:25
*** Leif is now known as Guest8550513:39
*** ChanServ sets mode: +v T414:28
T4<K31j0> Is N900 still supported?16:26
bencohnot by nemomobile at least16:27
bencoh(not that I can tell)16:27
T4<locusf> it never has been supported16:27
T4<locusf> meego did support it though, but not newer nomo16:28
T4<locusf> *nemo16:28
bencohnot since nemo moved to wayland16:28
bencoh(and qt5)16:28
T4<K31j0> there were some images :/16:28
T4<locusf> yeah x1116:28
bencohthere were so pre-wayland images, yeah16:28
bencohfor some reason, most of those images were removed (which is kinda sad)16:29
T4<K31j0> So I should either help go maemo leste or pmOS if I want to use my N90016:29
bencohand finding an image where everything worked at once was quite ... tedious (I never found one, but when I started looking for one it was too late already)16:29
T4<K31j0> [Edit] So I should either go help maemo leste or pmOS if I want to use my N90016:29
bencohI'd say maemo-leste16:29
*** ChanServ sets mode: +v T420:19

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.14.0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!