Tuesday, 2019-03-12

T4<DibyaXP> https://ubports.com/blog/ubports-blog-1/post/ubuntu-touch-ota-7-release-19203:39
Leif_EriksonHello Nemo friends. I just tested a Sailfish phone with the Glacier UX and can't make phone calls. I think the reason is, that I don't get a prompt to enter the PIN for the SIM. I installed the Nemo dialer without solving the problem.09:03
Leif_EriksonDid someone manage to make phone calls with the Glacier UX? Maybe Sailfish OS is incompatible with the pure Nemo Mobile?09:04
*** sledges_ is now known as sledges10:20
r0kk3rzdoes the dialler even do anything?10:33
tbrLeif_Erikson: the workaround (from MeeGo times, sic!) is to disable PIN for the SIM. :-/10:35
tbralso if it's still the ugly plain nemo dialer, then I've used it for some testing years ago... (that dialler supported choosing the actual backend, so not just cellular, but also SIP and XMPP)10:36
NeoChapayr0kk3rz: i was trying update some code on dialer but now i don't have free time now10:49
Leif_EriksonIs the problem really the dialler? Which component is managing the unlock of the SIM card? Are this the settings? I couldn't see SIM settings in the Nemo settings, only the Sailfish Settings. I assume some conflict.11:24
Leif_EriksonOr is it the Lipstick implementation. Than the problem is Glacier itself11:24
Leif_EriksonIf I install the Glacier UX, another settings app is installed either. Are the Glacier settings app and the Sailfish app using the same system API and data sources? Further more I realised, that installing the Nemo dialler required the deinstallation of at least one Sailfish library. It seems, that Sailfish and Nemo are using different libraries for thge phone features.11:25
Leif_EriksonOr is it the Lipstick implementation. Than the problem is Glacier itself11:25
Leif_EriksonIs the problem really the dialler? Which component is managing the unlock of the SIM card? Are this the settings? I couldn't see SIM settings in the Nemo settings, only the Sailfish Settings. I assume some conflict.11:26
tbrmmmmm, vintage - https://github.com/nemomobile/qmlpinquery11:27
Leif_EriksonThanks. I will try this app out.11:28
tbralso there's this: https://git.merproject.org/yeoldegrove/pinentry11:28
tbr(I have no clue if either will work)11:29
Leif_EriksonDoes someone use a pure Nemo Mobile system? I think Sailfish is more than the closed source Lipstick implementation and default apps in addition to the core OS.11:30
NeoChapayomg....it's so old code :) need update and migrate11:31
tbrIt was a bit of effort to build a completely sailfish/jolla-free image for Hammerhead two years ago11:31
tbr(The UI layer was mostly not Nemo and a commercial prototype that I can't talk about though)11:33
T4<meierrom> Leif_Erikson: What's happening when deactivating pin?11:38
Leif_EriksonIf I deactivate and activate the SIM in the Sailfish settings I can see "nnknown" for a very short time and then "locked"11:54
Leif_EriksonI mean unknown11:55
Leif_EriksonIf we can't find a license agreement with Jolla, we need to find a fall back. It it realistic to make Nemo Mobile running?11:57
Leif_EriksonI realised, that I'm not asked for the PIN, if I start my phone with Glacier UX. This is different to Sailfish.12:03
T4<meierrom> Leif_Erikson: It surely depends on your understanding of 'running'. :)12:34
T4<meierrom> tbr: 'from MeeGo times, sic!' What's sic?13:06
tbrmeierrom: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sic The Latin adverb sic ("thus", "just as"; in full: sic erat scriptum, "thus was it written")[1] inserted after a quoted word or passage indicates that the quoted matter has been transcribed or translated exactly as found in the source text, complete with any erroneous, archaic, or otherwise nonstandard spelling. It also applies to any surprising assertion, faulty13:10
tbrreasoning, or other matter that might be likely interpreted as an error of transcription.13:10
T4<eekkelund> @tbr [(The UI layer was mostly not Nemo and a commer …], HiOS + tsaikka UI ?:)13:11
tbreekkelund: you seem to have good imagination13:11
T4<eekkelund> 😃13:12
T4<meierrom> Leif_Erikson: Closed source Lipstick implementation? Are you referring to Silica?13:14
T4<meierrom> tbr: Right! :)13:17
Leif_EriksonWith closed source I mean the whole system UI of Sailfish as an implementation of the Lipstick API. It contains the compositor, lock screen, home screen and a lot of more UI elements for many use cases13:17
Leif_EriksonSailfish is closed source like the Google Layer of Android or macOS13:18
T4<meierrom> Leif_Erikson: I'm getting you now! :)13:26
T4<meierrom> I like to install sfos and consequently nemo/glacier on hammerhead. Should I follow the instructions on https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Adaptations/libhybris/Install_SailfishOS_for_hammerhead?13:43
T4<neochapay> https://neochapay.ru/blogs/zapiski-utkonosa-programmista/instructions-to-update-nexus5-to-latest-.html13:44
tbrnote that this will leave you with a quite mixed system that still contains bits of sailfish. A few of them more academic in their nature, but with a proprietary license tacked on nonetheless13:45
T4<meierrom> tbr: all nemo/glacier installation instructions I came across so far require prior installation of sfos. Is there another way?13:51
Leif_EriksonMaybe my problem was, that I have installed the dev branch of Glacier UX on Sailfish OS
Leif_EriksonI may have to use the latest Sailfish OS 2 release13:52
tbrmeierrom: I'm not aware of any public effort to write replacements for all components that are "non-free" originating in sailfish. So yes, that's likely the only easy way.13:53
Leif_EriksonI can't wait to get the Necunos developer device. It comes with a pure Nemo Mobile pre-installed.13:54
T4<NotKit> tbr, not sure which components do you mean, but Nemo can be ported on OpenEmbedded base for example13:55
tbrNotKit: There are various RPMs which are not under open source license. Replacing quite a few of them is trivial, others maybe a bit work. It's more of a plumbing job.13:56
tbrand yes, outside of Mer+Nemo/Glacier there are such, like that watch thing based on an OE built system13:57
T4<DibyaXP> Jolla is selfish13:57
tbrthey are a for profit company, so this should come as no surprise13:58
T4<DibyaXP> Does meego UI was open-source?14:00
T4<m_aurel> It's totally ok to pay a license fee. The challenge is to close an agreement as a startup. We hope, that we can convince Jolla.14:01
Leif_EriksonI'll reset the developer device and try it again with Sailfish 2.something14:02
T4<NotKit> @DibyaXP [Does meego UI was open-source?], MeeGo was, but not Harmattan14:04
T4<DibyaXP> Does updated meego could completely replace closed source sailfish components?14:06
T4<locusf> thats a lot of components14:06
T4<DibyaXP> I wish android never existed and meego never died14:06
T4<DibyaXP> Sailfish is not good at licensing too. … One Indian start-up made a device with following specs  … Qualcomm Snapdragon 429 … REAR :   Omnivision OV13B10 13MP 1.12um … FRONT: Omnivision OV08B 8MP 1.12um … 2GB RAM/16GB Storage … 5.2 INCH HD+ 720P  … 2750MAH … Jolla denied completely as they don't have big daddy company14:09
T4<m_aurel> Nemo Mobile is a complete OS, isn't it? So we could use Nemo Mobile for a mobile device with all core features, couldn't we? There are also alternative core apps lile dialler or calender available, aren't they?14:09
T4<NotKit> UBPorts are working with PinePhone, for example14:10
T4<m_aurel> Indeed, DS, this is the issue.14:10
T4<m_aurel> Yes, TheKit, this is another option. We are in contact with the UBports foundation.14:11
T4<m_aurel> UBports needs a lot of polishing of the UI14:11
T4<DibyaXP> If sailfish wishes to be third player then why don't they allow small start-up like my friend's to continue.14:11
T4<DibyaXP> They even have complete mer compatible camera App with Insane optimisation. Neither xa2 or X can beat them .14:12
T4<akaWolf> one more reason to "love" Jolla14:15
T4<DibyaXP> Jolla is thinking that big guys like Samsung , Nokia (now HMd global) will licence from Them. …  To be honest harmattan of Nokia was much more advanced for it Times. … Wanna kill Steven elope , that dude cancelled meego for windows Phone ( I never seen more shitty idea).14:18
T4<DibyaXP> I love Nemo UI14:19
T4<DibyaXP> Want to now how to copy iOS. … I think google knows it better14:21
T4<DibyaXP> (Photo, 720x1280)
T4<meierrom> @NotKit: I'm not getting you. Wasn't Harmattan the 1.2 version of Meego? Did they change the licence?14:22
T4<m_aurel> I think, Jolla has to follow the advice of their investors and they do what they can. We already got great encouraging support. I'M still optimistic. However, we need to think about a fallback.14:22
T4<m_aurel> The UX of Amdroid and iOS are different in details but similar in the general app centricc paramdigm. Therefore we love Sailfish, but Glacier is also very promising. In some aspects Glacier is even ahead of Sailfish.14:23
T4<locusf> @meierrom [@NotKit: I'm not getting you. Wasn't Harmattan …], harmattan is more maemo than meego ever was14:24
T4<DibyaXP> @m_aurel if they make their whole UI and components open-source and make their marketplace , android support , apps (like email, phone) available for Money I think they have better chance14:24
T4<DibyaXP> @m_aurel  glacier is awesome but we need strong support . … If glacier had half man power of AOSP , Nemo could change the world14:25
T4<DibyaXP> https://wiki.gnome.org/Attic/Hildon14:27
T4<m_aurel> I agree, but they have to protect their IP and business. We think about a compromise. We think about contributing to Nemo Mobile as a free open source system together with other startups. Some add ons would be published under CC BY-NC-SA 4.0 to protect our economic existence. We already filed some patents to prevent the big duopols to cop14:30
T4y good ideas.14:30
T4<m_aurel> And yes, we would hire developer to maintain Nemo Mobile.14:30
T4<DibyaXP> @m_aurel  … Thanks a lot . Our team is already working on QT based browser . … @akaWolf  … Is this legit? … https://sourceforge.net/projects/harmattan/14:31
T4<m_aurel> I don't now Hilden, yet, just Paris Hilton 😊14:32
T4<m_aurel> Is Hildon something like Qt?14:32
T4<DibyaXP> It gtk actually14:32
T4<DibyaXP> What is licensing cost for Alien dalvik?14:33
T4<m_aurel> I think it is not licencable.14:34
T4<m_aurel> We think about pushing Anbox for Nemo Mobile and have already requested for a proposal.14:34
T4<akaWolf> @DibyaXP [@m_aurel  … Thanks a lot . Our team is already w …], for the time of writing main page it's legit I thing14:35
T4<DibyaXP> Anbox ? Is it  faster than alien dalvik? I am worried about performance14:36
T4<DibyaXP> @akaWolf  thanks14:36
T4<akaWolf> @m_aurel [The UX of Amdroid and iOS are different in det …], the problem here is whole Mer infrastructure, which is totally outdated. and internal architecture of it.14:37
T4<neochapay> @akaWolf [the problem here is whole Mer infrastructure, …], Why not update it ?14:37
T4<DibyaXP> Updated mer core will be heaven on Earth14:37
T4<meierrom> @locusf [harmattan is more maemo than meego ever was], Interesting statement, that I really dont understand. :)) All I know is that my N9 runs Meego Harmattan and my N900 Meamo 5, I think. The OS are quite different but they may have a lot of common stuff under the hood, I guess...14:38
T4<neochapay> use https://build.merproject.org/project/monitor/home:neochapay:mer2:core for start14:38
T4<locusf> @meierrom [Interesting statement, that I really dont unde …], nope, Harmattan had the MeeGo touch UI components ported to Maemo, it has otherwise very little to do with MeeGo14:39
T4<akaWolf> @neochapay [Why not update it ?], I think using some popular distribution is better way14:39
T4<akaWolf> as core14:39
T4<neochapay> @akaWolf [I think using some popular distribution is bet …], ha-ha14:39
T4<neochapay> Say me - what popular distibution work on mobile phone ? :))))14:39
T4<DibyaXP> Tizen14:40
T4<neochapay> @DibyaXP [Tizen], ahahahahahahahahahahaha14:40
T4<NotKit> Purism base on Debian testing it seems14:40
T4<DibyaXP> Tizen is designed by lagsung and hangsung so I will not use it14:41
T4<DibyaXP> @NotKit @akaWolf  … Mer is very fast system14:41
T4<akaWolf> you can make the similar using Debian or Arch14:42
T4<DibyaXP> @akaWolf  does Debian works on phone?14:43
T4<m_aurel> I tested Anbox on a FP2 with UBports. It works fairly but it is indeed more a proof of concept and not yet integrated into the host system like Alien Davlik in Sailfish OS.14:44
T4<neochapay> Again, stupid talk about how all is bad in mer but nobody doesn't want do any think14:44
T4<DibyaXP> @m_aurel  … Wishing  your team best  … @neochapay  … That something happens when chef Ramsey only tastes food never make it ..14:45
T4<neochapay> @DibyaXP [@m_aurel  … Wishing  your team best  … @neochapay …], sorry i not understand you14:46
T4<m_aurel> We came to the conclusion, that Sailfish and UBports are the most mature alternative systems. And Nsmo Mobile could even be another alternative. There are some other great projects, but far away from a plattform for a commercial product, if a startup has limited capital. Only companies like Google can afford to create an OS from the scrat14:46
T4ch like Fuchsia.14:46
T4<akaWolf> I would not separate too much Nemo from Sailfish...14:46
T4<DibyaXP> @neochapay  … Ramsey always tastes others food and criticize it but never make his own food14:47
T4<meierrom> @DibyaXP [I wish android never existed and meego never d …], Yeah, at least we have maemo leste. :)14:47
T4<akaWolf> @DibyaXP [@neochapay  … Ramsey always tastes others food a …], https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Ramsay14:48
T4<neochapay> @DibyaXP [@neochapay  … Ramsey always tastes others food a …], hmmmmm...not understand why i read about it here14:48
T4<DibyaXP> @akaWolf  do you watch Ramsey's kitchen nightmares?14:48
T4<akaWolf> @neochapay [hmmmmm...not understand why i read about it he …], it's a parallel...14:49
T4<akaWolf> nope I didn't see nightmares of Ramsey's kitchen :)14:49
T4<neochapay> @akaWolf [it's a parallel...], hm....if you whant say i just criticize but not create code ? O_O14:49
T4<akaWolf> nope, it's not about you, it's what happening here right now :)14:50
T4<DibyaXP> @m_aurel  … I wish Nemo to be enhanced14:50
T4<locusf> (Document)
T4<meierrom> @DibyaXP [Does meego UI was open-source?], I'm not sure, but maemo problably was to a greater extent since we have maemo leste today.14:51
T4<DibyaXP> @neochapay  I doesn't mean to you, you made Qtwebengine possible . You are hero of mer14:51
T4<neochapay> (Sticker, 512x512)
T4<locusf> mr ramsay14:51
T4<locusf> in the gif14:52
T4<akaWolf> okay :)14:52
T4<DibyaXP> Good night everyone14:52
T4<neochapay> (Photo, 474x265) Oh...we have russian version of ramsy show as i just found out14:53
T4<DibyaXP> Haha I have to watch that too then. … I love cooking14:53
Leif_EriksonOh, the first time I see a photo in an IRC chat14:54
T4<DibyaXP> All hail Memo14:55
T4<DibyaXP> All hail Nemo14:55
T4<locusf> (Document)
T4<m_aurel> We will host acommunity event in late spring. I'll post a link as soon we have set up the event page.14:59
T4<meierrom> @DibyaXP [@akaWolf  does Debian works on phone?], Debian works on gemini by planet computers.15:10
T4<DibyaXP> @m_aurel  … What about studying android integration in chrome os ? We might able to integrate15:11

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