13:25:46 <lbt> #startmeeting  Plasma Active and Mer Community OBS
13:25:46 <Merbot> Meeting started Tue Mar 12 13:25:46 2013 UTC.  The chair is lbt. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Meetings.
13:25:46 <Merbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
13:26:00 <lbt> Afternoon all
13:26:09 <vgrade_> \o
13:26:11 <lbt> will just ping sage again
13:26:18 <aseigo> vgrade_: hey :)
13:26:30 <notmart> hey everybody ;)
13:26:47 * w00t eyes the channel
13:27:04 <lbt> :)
13:27:22 * aseigo eyes w00t
13:27:22 <lbt> So, as you all know meego.com is not long for this world
13:27:40 <lbt> and that means we'll be losing that Community OBS at some point.
13:28:49 <lbt> poweroff is 20/May
13:29:10 <lbt> but that is vacated racks etc - so services will go before
13:29:43 <lbt> Mer has set up a small community OBS
13:30:07 <lbt> our contribution policy is basically usage-based
13:30:31 <lbt> so the point of this meeting is just to see what the active project wants to do
13:30:59 <lbt> aseigo and I chatted and talked about sponsoring build server(s)
13:31:09 <notmart> well, for sure going on the new obs
13:31:25 <notmart> that will involve sponsoring some workers i guess
13:31:30 <lbt> yep :)
13:31:47 <Sage_> o/
13:31:50 <Sage_> sry
13:32:33 <lbt> so the thing is basically how many servers you feel happy to sponsor - obviously something for build --   but you may be in a position to add something for general infra - or you may not :)
13:32:47 <lbt> we use Hetzner machines
13:32:48 <aseigo> servers for everyone! :)
13:32:57 <aseigo> yeah, same place we host our things too :)
13:33:04 <lbt> http://www.hetzner.de/en/hosting/produkte_rootserver/ex4s
13:33:27 <aseigo> how many servers are there in the pool currently?
13:33:30 <lbt> I've sorted things out to allow VAT to be reclaimed if you're setup for that
13:33:32 <aseigo> (in the COBS)
13:33:36 <lbt> just 3
13:33:54 <lbt> each one is about 0.5 one of the meego builders
13:34:08 <lbt> so this is a fairly big drop in power
13:34:18 * aseigo cocks his head to one side...
13:34:28 <lbt> I think - I'm not a HW guy
13:34:43 <aseigo> 3 currently, but more booked for sponsorship already?
13:35:07 <lbt> no
13:35:17 <lbt> https://build.merproject.org/monitor
13:35:50 <vgrade_> vs https://build.pub.meego.com/monitor
13:35:59 <lbt> yes
13:36:43 <kontio> lbt: does it have to be a ex4s? there are quite good ones available in hetzner's occasion marked: https://robot.your-server.de/order/market
13:37:17 <lbt> kontio: I'm happy to use them if we find them - never tried yet
13:37:26 <Sage_> Amount is RAM is the limitation here I think.
13:37:30 <kontio> no backup included... but I guess for a worker not mandatory...
13:37:32 <lbt> for workers though I'd like to stick to standard ones so I can puppet them
13:37:48 <Sage_> ex4s was selected because of 32G of ram.
13:37:51 <lbt> yes
13:37:56 <Sage_> and workers are using tmpfs to build
13:38:09 <lbt> basically cost/performance seems best there at the moment
13:39:17 <kontio> ok seems such ones are not in the offer atm :-)
13:39:19 <aseigo> the meego build servers are each 2x an ex4s? that's fairly impressive in terms of infrastructure investment at the time.. i suppose intel has quite a few servers kicking around though
13:39:20 <Sage_> ex10 might be quite close to that
13:39:32 <lbt> I also mentioned this to aseigo :  https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Donation_Policy
13:39:35 <aseigo> in any case .. yes, 3 would not be great..
13:39:44 <dm8tbr> aseigo: something like dell r710
13:39:44 <lbt> aseigo: yep - they were beasts
13:40:04 <lbt> and adam kept finding trays of top-end CPUs to plug into them
13:40:17 <aseigo> lbt: i thought last night you had said that various people/companies were already sponsoring other machiens?
13:40:19 <aseigo> er, machines
13:41:09 <dm8tbr> btw: the meego.com machines would in theory be available, but that's at OSUOSL and from previous conversations I know that a US hosted location for an OBS is not preferred in the community
13:41:12 <lbt> aseigo: yes, we have a number of other ones doing frontend/backend www, wiki, bz, bz2, image building, ldap andd of course the Mer CI OBS
13:41:48 <lbt> dm8tbr: I've spoken to them about it - they'd charge us about $60/month to host the machines
13:41:59 <vgrade_> looks like the closed meego ones have gone, http://build.meego.com/monitor
13:42:13 <vgrade_> to tizen?
13:42:20 <lbt> so realistically Hetzner is best option now
13:42:21 <dm8tbr> lbt: ok
13:42:47 <aseigo> lbt: ah, ok .. so there are currently 3 systems for the OBS itself .. image build systems are separate from that?
13:43:35 <lbt> aseigo: yes
13:44:23 <lbt> and CI is seperate too
13:45:27 <aseigo> ok, this starts to make more sense again :)
13:46:22 <aseigo> notmart: the jenkins instance backup you installed .. that was for CI services being hosted @ basyskom, yes?
13:46:57 <lbt> so 2 machines dedicated to infra/services (access, mail/dns, boss, bz, bz2, gerrit, gitlabhq, irc,ldap, monitoring,puppet, shell, web, wiki, admin, qa reports)
13:46:58 <notmart> aseigo: yes a ci service that actually doesn't do the build but updates the packages on obs
13:48:02 <notmart> (so takes relatively little cpu resources, just network)
13:48:45 <aseigo> notmart: would be nice if we could put all that together in one place .. is there anything there that would make sense for integration with the mer COBS?
13:49:58 <aseigo> lbt: so if we pop another 2 ex4s systems into the build pool, that starts to get us a little bit closer to happy .. do we have any idea on what sort of load we can expect on these machines? will 5 be enough for nemo + sailfish + PA needs?
13:50:15 <notmart> aseigo: you mean that jenkins instance ona same machines as mer cobs or the ci part done by obs instead of jenkins?
13:50:28 <lbt> aseigo: I think so - Sage_ has seen more of the active impact
13:50:39 <aseigo> notmart: the latter .. just wondering if we can centralize our CI work as much as possible so we have fewer tails to chase
13:50:46 <aseigo> Sage_: ?
13:51:24 <Sage_> 2 should be enough for PA needs, though we should really check the need after a while.
13:51:38 <lbt> that makes sense
13:51:44 <notmart> i thnk obs had an option to download tarballs remotely instead of having to be uploaded there, don't know how much sophisticated of ci features it has tough
13:51:47 <Sage_> there has been quite a lot of extra burden in meego community obs from the stuff that isn't used but is just left by users there
13:52:04 <Stskeeps> or harmattan builds
13:52:05 <Stskeeps> :P
13:52:08 <lbt> notmart: we use git source service mostly now
13:52:11 <lbt> Stskeeps: :D
13:52:16 <Sage_> Stskeeps: well that is the most pain actually :P
13:52:52 <Sage_> nemo is moving to git source services as well soonish when the move is done we start to convert packages to git format.
13:53:13 <notmart> lbt: if is something that could meet the needs we could migrate to that, yes..
13:53:39 <lbt> notmart: lets discuss in #active later
13:53:52 <notmart> would like to migrate one thing at a time tough (ie making the current structure that is in meego cobs building correctly on the mer one may be already a long thing per se)
13:53:57 <notmart> lbt: sure
13:53:58 <vgrade_> https://build.pub.meego.com/monitor select 1 month history gives a view of usage
13:56:33 <Sage_> notmart: I would like to propose that lets not drag the current project structure to new obs but create plasmaactive: and everything you guys use under that or similra
13:56:34 <lbt> so it sounds like 2 workers for build load and maybe see about a machine to move jenkins to at some point? I'm fine letting trusted people admin a subset of systems.
13:56:45 <lbt> Sage_: +1
13:56:59 <Sage_> also lets not do caps ;)
13:57:10 <lbt> hehe
13:57:48 <aseigo> gah.. sorry, phone call :(
13:58:35 <aseigo> so sounds like we'll be able to kill a lot of unecessary load in the process .. go skinny and self-hosted.
13:59:10 <aseigo> ok .. the sys admin team for this .. are there regular meetings or some such that get held? or is it more relaxed than that with a "do what needs doing" approach?
13:59:11 <Sage_> aseigo: hopefully yes.
13:59:20 <aseigo> i ask only so i know what kind of impact to schedule here ;)
13:59:28 <mdfe> so you really want this boss CI for PA?
13:59:32 <lbt> aseigo: "ping lbt and phaeron"
13:59:33 <aseigo> (and how many meetings i'll force notmart to attend .. hahaa.. jk notmart  :)
13:59:45 <notmart> :p
14:00:21 <aseigo> mdfe: we current have a jenkins based CI thing happening. notmart can explain more. i'm not overly happy with having infrastructure all over the place if we can bring it all closer to home
14:00:25 <lbt> mdfe: I don't think we're proposing boss CI
14:00:48 <aseigo> in any case, that's probably a separate topic from this, which i should try not to complexify (ah, i love that non-word)
14:01:06 <aseigo> so .. yeah, i think 2x COBS servers is good for us
14:01:15 <aseigo> you'll invoice us in 6 month increments, yes?
14:01:37 <lbt> yep; can someone mail me @ david@dgreaves.com
14:01:56 <lbt> and we'll take invoicing details there
14:02:23 <aseigo> what would be very useful for me is if notmart and $SMART_MER_PERSON_HANDLING_COBS could spend a bit of time together familiarizing each other with how the change over will happen from the existing OBS, etc. so we can plan for whatever work / disruptions will occur
14:02:24 <mdfe> when should we start with setting up the new PA project structure on new community OBS?
14:02:39 <aseigo> lbt: i'll email you there shortly :)
14:02:49 <aseigo> mdfe: sooner is better than later
14:02:50 <lbt> aseigo: yes, Sage_ is migrating nemo so I'd say use lessons learnt there
14:03:07 <Sage_> o/
14:03:10 <aseigo> mdfe: this is where figuring out the overall schedule is probably useful..
14:03:19 <mdfe> I did in update to marcos home projects for some days
14:03:31 <notmart> aseigo: yeah, the new project can even done beforehand, like the dump copy of the meego project i did, can just be left disabled when not needed to not kill too much resources before the new workers
14:03:40 <lbt> one issue : meego usernames != mer usernames
14:03:48 <lbt> so just be careful there
14:04:01 <mdfe> ack
14:04:32 * lbt is happy then .... welcome to your new overlords :D
14:05:24 <aseigo> we could do worse for overlords i suppose
14:05:40 <Sage_> mdfe: notmart: aseigo: We should also check the some things together with you Mer and Nemo. You seems to have some copies of Nemo and Mer stuff under :Mer_Extras and :Adaptations: that could be merged and we would save the load there as well
14:05:55 <notmart> yeah
14:06:05 <aseigo> Sage_: notmart: can i leave it to you 2 guys to guide each other / share info and get the PA needs sorted to the Mer COBS? that'd be terrific.
14:06:07 <aseigo> Sage_: yes.
14:06:19 <Sage_> if there is need to for/clone/copy any packages we are doing somethign wrong somewhere
14:06:24 <aseigo> there is a fair amount of coordination there that could be handy to coordinate on
14:06:29 <aseigo> agreed
14:06:32 <Sage_> of course there might be exceptions but in general that is the case
14:06:38 <lbt> it sounds like we can close up this meeting and move back to BAU
14:06:43 <aseigo> basically i think in the past things were slightly more chaotic and disconnected
14:06:50 <aseigo> this is a good opportunity to close those gaps
14:06:54 <Sage_> yes
14:07:03 <aseigo> lbt: you have mail
14:07:14 <aseigo> lbt: say it out loud in the AOL voice. you know you want to. ;)
14:07:18 <lbt> I think we need to schedule some more 'keep in sync' meetings - every 1/2 months?
14:07:35 <Sage_> I'm hoping to get the nemo moved to new obs today with process tested but lets see how it goes. with the current amount of workers it is a bit slow while building 100 packages to couple of architectures
14:07:40 <lbt> *blush* I did....
14:07:46 <aseigo> at least once a month at the beginning; it may even make sense to do bi-weekly for the first month or two as we shift over
14:08:03 <notmart> yeah, when a plasmaactive project can be createdwe'll probably want to get kickstarted in the right way, so if we can start the thing together would be great
14:08:08 <aseigo> can be quick ones, hopefully would even be just people saying "yep, this is done. that's done. see ya next time"
14:08:11 <notmart> mdfe can be in the lop as well
14:08:24 <aseigo> lbt: lol
14:08:47 <notmart> err, *loop
14:09:13 <lbt> ok, notmart can you arrange those meetings?
14:09:20 <aseigo> lbt: ah, sth i forgot to mention in my email .. we'll need SWIFT id for the bank transfer due to where our co. is currently doing its main banking
14:09:33 <lbt> np
14:10:19 * lbt asks CFO ... she say "yes"
14:10:24 <aseigo> well, how about we just schedule the next one right now? seems that with Sage_ being in process this week, it could make sense to meet up early next week to take a pulse?
14:10:51 <notmart> lbt: yeah, just tell me when the first can be (ie project created, we can go on with obs stuff)
14:10:52 <Sage_> sure
14:11:07 <aseigo> tuesday works ok? we already have team meets on monday ..
14:11:18 <lbt> notmart: it's open now - nothing needs doing there as such
14:11:19 <aseigo> we could even do "same time, same channel" :)
14:11:21 <notmart> so maybe isn't that useful to do one like, tomorrow, but when we can actually start to do stuff, so can be guided..
14:11:28 <notmart> ah, ok
14:11:53 <notmart> yep, could be tuesdays here..
14:11:53 <lbt> this is mainly so you guys don't fall off the fiscal^H^H^H meego cliff
14:12:08 <aseigo> Sage_ could fill us in on how the nemo progress is, and if things are generally settling in, hopefully we can even have the 2 new machines in the pool, and we can get readied for the PA move
14:12:17 <aseigo> lbt: yeah, we appreciate that
14:12:26 <aseigo> damn republicans. er.. intel.
14:12:28 <aseigo> ;)
14:12:51 <aseigo> Sage_: next tuesday same time works ok for you?
14:13:01 <lbt> no email yet - could be greylisted
14:13:19 <Sage_> aseigo: I think so
14:13:45 <notmart> ok, so let's try to keep tuedays here and let's see if we can form a good habit :p
14:15:27 <aseigo> lbt: let me know if it doesn't arrive
14:15:38 <lbt> will do
14:15:44 <aseigo> Sage_: great...
14:15:52 <lbt> OK - are we done?
14:15:53 <notmart> train your pidgeons ;)
14:16:00 <mdfe> :)
14:16:03 <lbt> groan
14:16:16 <aseigo> notmart: agreed.. i assume in short order we can move it once every other week, and then every month .. but in the short term more often is probably good
14:16:25 <aseigo> lbt: i think so .. cheers!
14:16:43 <lbt> OK, thanks everyone
14:16:47 <notmart> okie, so see you next time :)
14:16:54 <lbt> #endmeeting