13:25:46 #startmeeting Plasma Active and Mer Community OBS 13:25:46 Meeting started Tue Mar 12 13:25:46 2013 UTC. The chair is lbt. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Meetings. 13:25:46 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 13:26:00 Afternoon all 13:26:09 \o 13:26:11 will just ping sage again 13:26:18 vgrade_: hey :) 13:26:30 hey everybody ;) 13:26:47 * w00t eyes the channel 13:27:04 :) 13:27:22 * aseigo eyes w00t 13:27:22 So, as you all know meego.com is not long for this world 13:27:40 and that means we'll be losing that Community OBS at some point. 13:28:49 poweroff is 20/May 13:29:10 but that is vacated racks etc - so services will go before 13:29:43 Mer has set up a small community OBS 13:30:07 our contribution policy is basically usage-based 13:30:31 so the point of this meeting is just to see what the active project wants to do 13:30:59 aseigo and I chatted and talked about sponsoring build server(s) 13:31:09 well, for sure going on the new obs 13:31:25 that will involve sponsoring some workers i guess 13:31:30 yep :) 13:31:47 o/ 13:31:50 sry 13:32:33 so the thing is basically how many servers you feel happy to sponsor - obviously something for build -- but you may be in a position to add something for general infra - or you may not :) 13:32:47 we use Hetzner machines 13:32:48 servers for everyone! :) 13:32:57 yeah, same place we host our things too :) 13:33:04 http://www.hetzner.de/en/hosting/produkte_rootserver/ex4s 13:33:27 how many servers are there in the pool currently? 13:33:30 I've sorted things out to allow VAT to be reclaimed if you're setup for that 13:33:32 (in the COBS) 13:33:36 just 3 13:33:54 each one is about 0.5 one of the meego builders 13:34:08 so this is a fairly big drop in power 13:34:18 * aseigo cocks his head to one side... 13:34:28 I think - I'm not a HW guy 13:34:43 3 currently, but more booked for sponsorship already? 13:35:07 no 13:35:17 https://build.merproject.org/monitor 13:35:50 vs https://build.pub.meego.com/monitor 13:35:59 yes 13:36:43 lbt: does it have to be a ex4s? there are quite good ones available in hetzner's occasion marked: https://robot.your-server.de/order/market 13:37:17 kontio: I'm happy to use them if we find them - never tried yet 13:37:26 Amount is RAM is the limitation here I think. 13:37:30 no backup included... but I guess for a worker not mandatory... 13:37:32 for workers though I'd like to stick to standard ones so I can puppet them 13:37:48 ex4s was selected because of 32G of ram. 13:37:51 yes 13:37:56 and workers are using tmpfs to build 13:38:09 basically cost/performance seems best there at the moment 13:39:17 ok seems such ones are not in the offer atm :-) 13:39:19 the meego build servers are each 2x an ex4s? that's fairly impressive in terms of infrastructure investment at the time.. i suppose intel has quite a few servers kicking around though 13:39:20 ex10 might be quite close to that 13:39:32 I also mentioned this to aseigo : https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Donation_Policy 13:39:35 in any case .. yes, 3 would not be great.. 13:39:44 aseigo: something like dell r710 13:39:44 aseigo: yep - they were beasts 13:40:04 and adam kept finding trays of top-end CPUs to plug into them 13:40:17 lbt: i thought last night you had said that various people/companies were already sponsoring other machiens? 13:40:19 er, machines 13:41:09 btw: the meego.com machines would in theory be available, but that's at OSUOSL and from previous conversations I know that a US hosted location for an OBS is not preferred in the community 13:41:12 aseigo: yes, we have a number of other ones doing frontend/backend www, wiki, bz, bz2, image building, ldap andd of course the Mer CI OBS 13:41:48 dm8tbr: I've spoken to them about it - they'd charge us about $60/month to host the machines 13:41:59 looks like the closed meego ones have gone, http://build.meego.com/monitor 13:42:13 to tizen? 13:42:20 so realistically Hetzner is best option now 13:42:21 lbt: ok 13:42:47 lbt: ah, ok .. so there are currently 3 systems for the OBS itself .. image build systems are separate from that? 13:43:35 aseigo: yes 13:44:23 and CI is seperate too 13:45:27 ok, this starts to make more sense again :) 13:46:22 notmart: the jenkins instance backup you installed .. that was for CI services being hosted @ basyskom, yes? 13:46:57 so 2 machines dedicated to infra/services (access, mail/dns, boss, bz, bz2, gerrit, gitlabhq, irc,ldap, monitoring,puppet, shell, web, wiki, admin, qa reports) 13:46:58 aseigo: yes a ci service that actually doesn't do the build but updates the packages on obs 13:48:02 (so takes relatively little cpu resources, just network) 13:48:45 notmart: would be nice if we could put all that together in one place .. is there anything there that would make sense for integration with the mer COBS? 13:49:58 lbt: so if we pop another 2 ex4s systems into the build pool, that starts to get us a little bit closer to happy .. do we have any idea on what sort of load we can expect on these machines? will 5 be enough for nemo + sailfish + PA needs? 13:50:15 aseigo: you mean that jenkins instance ona same machines as mer cobs or the ci part done by obs instead of jenkins? 13:50:28 aseigo: I think so - Sage_ has seen more of the active impact 13:50:39 notmart: the latter .. just wondering if we can centralize our CI work as much as possible so we have fewer tails to chase 13:50:46 Sage_: ? 13:51:24 2 should be enough for PA needs, though we should really check the need after a while. 13:51:38 that makes sense 13:51:44 i thnk obs had an option to download tarballs remotely instead of having to be uploaded there, don't know how much sophisticated of ci features it has tough 13:51:47 there has been quite a lot of extra burden in meego community obs from the stuff that isn't used but is just left by users there 13:52:04 or harmattan builds 13:52:05 :P 13:52:08 notmart: we use git source service mostly now 13:52:11 Stskeeps: :D 13:52:16 Stskeeps: well that is the most pain actually :P 13:52:52 nemo is moving to git source services as well soonish when the move is done we start to convert packages to git format. 13:53:13 lbt: if is something that could meet the needs we could migrate to that, yes.. 13:53:39 notmart: lets discuss in #active later 13:53:52 would like to migrate one thing at a time tough (ie making the current structure that is in meego cobs building correctly on the mer one may be already a long thing per se) 13:53:57 lbt: sure 13:53:58 https://build.pub.meego.com/monitor select 1 month history gives a view of usage 13:56:33 notmart: I would like to propose that lets not drag the current project structure to new obs but create plasmaactive: and everything you guys use under that or similra 13:56:34 so it sounds like 2 workers for build load and maybe see about a machine to move jenkins to at some point? I'm fine letting trusted people admin a subset of systems. 13:56:45 Sage_: +1 13:56:59 also lets not do caps ;) 13:57:10 hehe 13:57:48 gah.. sorry, phone call :( 13:58:35 so sounds like we'll be able to kill a lot of unecessary load in the process .. go skinny and self-hosted. 13:59:10 ok .. the sys admin team for this .. are there regular meetings or some such that get held? or is it more relaxed than that with a "do what needs doing" approach? 13:59:11 aseigo: hopefully yes. 13:59:20 i ask only so i know what kind of impact to schedule here ;) 13:59:28 so you really want this boss CI for PA? 13:59:32 aseigo: "ping lbt and phaeron" 13:59:33 (and how many meetings i'll force notmart to attend .. hahaa.. jk notmart :) 13:59:45 :p 14:00:21 mdfe: we current have a jenkins based CI thing happening. notmart can explain more. i'm not overly happy with having infrastructure all over the place if we can bring it all closer to home 14:00:25 mdfe: I don't think we're proposing boss CI 14:00:48 in any case, that's probably a separate topic from this, which i should try not to complexify (ah, i love that non-word) 14:01:06 so .. yeah, i think 2x COBS servers is good for us 14:01:15 you'll invoice us in 6 month increments, yes? 14:01:37 yep; can someone mail me @ david@dgreaves.com 14:01:56 and we'll take invoicing details there 14:02:23 what would be very useful for me is if notmart and $SMART_MER_PERSON_HANDLING_COBS could spend a bit of time together familiarizing each other with how the change over will happen from the existing OBS, etc. so we can plan for whatever work / disruptions will occur 14:02:24 when should we start with setting up the new PA project structure on new community OBS? 14:02:39 lbt: i'll email you there shortly :) 14:02:49 mdfe: sooner is better than later 14:02:50 aseigo: yes, Sage_ is migrating nemo so I'd say use lessons learnt there 14:03:07 o/ 14:03:10 mdfe: this is where figuring out the overall schedule is probably useful.. 14:03:19 I did in update to marcos home projects for some days 14:03:31 aseigo: yeah, the new project can even done beforehand, like the dump copy of the meego project i did, can just be left disabled when not needed to not kill too much resources before the new workers 14:03:40 one issue : meego usernames != mer usernames 14:03:48 so just be careful there 14:04:01 ack 14:04:32 * lbt is happy then .... welcome to your new overlords :D 14:05:24 we could do worse for overlords i suppose 14:05:40 mdfe: notmart: aseigo: We should also check the some things together with you Mer and Nemo. You seems to have some copies of Nemo and Mer stuff under :Mer_Extras and :Adaptations: that could be merged and we would save the load there as well 14:05:55 yeah 14:06:05 Sage_: notmart: can i leave it to you 2 guys to guide each other / share info and get the PA needs sorted to the Mer COBS? that'd be terrific. 14:06:07 Sage_: yes. 14:06:19 if there is need to for/clone/copy any packages we are doing somethign wrong somewhere 14:06:24 there is a fair amount of coordination there that could be handy to coordinate on 14:06:29 agreed 14:06:32 of course there might be exceptions but in general that is the case 14:06:38 it sounds like we can close up this meeting and move back to BAU 14:06:43 basically i think in the past things were slightly more chaotic and disconnected 14:06:50 this is a good opportunity to close those gaps 14:06:54 yes 14:07:03 lbt: you have mail 14:07:14 lbt: say it out loud in the AOL voice. you know you want to. ;) 14:07:18 I think we need to schedule some more 'keep in sync' meetings - every 1/2 months? 14:07:35 I'm hoping to get the nemo moved to new obs today with process tested but lets see how it goes. with the current amount of workers it is a bit slow while building 100 packages to couple of architectures 14:07:40 *blush* I did.... 14:07:46 at least once a month at the beginning; it may even make sense to do bi-weekly for the first month or two as we shift over 14:08:03 yeah, when a plasmaactive project can be createdwe'll probably want to get kickstarted in the right way, so if we can start the thing together would be great 14:08:08 can be quick ones, hopefully would even be just people saying "yep, this is done. that's done. see ya next time" 14:08:11 mdfe can be in the lop as well 14:08:24 lbt: lol 14:08:47 err, *loop 14:09:13 ok, notmart can you arrange those meetings? 14:09:20 lbt: ah, sth i forgot to mention in my email .. we'll need SWIFT id for the bank transfer due to where our co. is currently doing its main banking 14:09:33 np 14:10:19 * lbt asks CFO ... she say "yes" 14:10:24 well, how about we just schedule the next one right now? seems that with Sage_ being in process this week, it could make sense to meet up early next week to take a pulse? 14:10:51 lbt: yeah, just tell me when the first can be (ie project created, we can go on with obs stuff) 14:10:52 sure 14:11:07 tuesday works ok? we already have team meets on monday .. 14:11:18 notmart: it's open now - nothing needs doing there as such 14:11:19 we could even do "same time, same channel" :) 14:11:21 so maybe isn't that useful to do one like, tomorrow, but when we can actually start to do stuff, so can be guided.. 14:11:28 ah, ok 14:11:53 yep, could be tuesdays here.. 14:11:53 this is mainly so you guys don't fall off the fiscal^H^H^H meego cliff 14:12:08 Sage_ could fill us in on how the nemo progress is, and if things are generally settling in, hopefully we can even have the 2 new machines in the pool, and we can get readied for the PA move 14:12:17 lbt: yeah, we appreciate that 14:12:26 damn republicans. er.. intel. 14:12:28 ;) 14:12:51 Sage_: next tuesday same time works ok for you? 14:13:01 no email yet - could be greylisted 14:13:19 aseigo: I think so 14:13:45 ok, so let's try to keep tuedays here and let's see if we can form a good habit :p 14:15:27 lbt: let me know if it doesn't arrive 14:15:38 will do 14:15:44 Sage_: great... 14:15:52 OK - are we done? 14:15:53 train your pidgeons ;) 14:16:00 :) 14:16:03 groan 14:16:16 notmart: agreed.. i assume in short order we can move it once every other week, and then every month .. but in the short term more often is probably good 14:16:25 lbt: i think so .. cheers! 14:16:43 OK, thanks everyone 14:16:47 okie, so see you next time :) 14:16:54 #endmeeting