15:00:14 <faenil> #startmeeting SailfishOS, open source, collaboration: 07-October @ 15:00 UTC
15:00:14 <Merbot> Meeting started Tue Oct  7 15:00:14 2014 UTC.  The chair is faenil. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Meetings.
15:00:14 <Merbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
15:00:23 <faenil> #info Welcome to another week of SailfishOS OSS and collaboration meeting
15:00:30 <faenil> #info Meeting info and agenda: https://lists.sailfishos.org/pipermail/devel/2014-October/005097.html
15:00:37 <faenil> I'm the meeting chair for today and will be keeping time and order. Please behave and show mutual respect, and let's have a productive discussion!
15:00:39 * tbr looks
15:00:45 <faenil> #topic Brief introductions (5 mins), prefix your information with #info
15:00:57 <lbt> #info David Greaves, sailor and Mer guy
15:00:59 <faenil> #info Andrea Bernabei, nemomobile contributor and Jolla user, chairman today!
15:01:06 <tbr> #info Thomas Ruecker, community person
15:01:12 <vgrade_> #info martin brook, community guy
15:01:13 <SK_work> #info Lucien Xu, community
15:01:22 <BasilSemuonov> #info Basil Semuonov, community
15:01:23 <stephg> #info Steph Gosling, community
15:01:27 <daitheflu> #info François Kubler, community
15:01:38 <Nokius> #info Julius-Paul Jann, community
15:02:04 <locusf> #info Aleksi Suomalainen
15:02:11 <cybette> #info Carol Chen, wearing jolla sailor hat today
15:02:19 <kimmoli> #info Kimmo Lindholm, toh-tailor, community
15:02:28 <eleroux> #info Eric Le Roux, Bugzilla & TJC admin @ Jolla
15:02:28 <pdanek> #info Peter Danek, community
15:02:32 <marxistvegan> #info Stephen Mahood, just became a sailor on the nexus 4
15:02:46 <cybette> Iekku sends her apologies for not being able to make the meeting today due to family commitments
15:03:48 <SK_work> oow
15:04:12 <faenil> we forgive her :D
15:04:56 <faenil> let's get to the first topic, shall we :)
15:05:01 <faenil> #topic How about a SailfishOS stand at FOSDEM15 ? (by community) What about the Idea? Who is in? - Nokius (30 mins)
15:05:07 <faenil> Nokius: the stage is yours!
15:05:14 <Nokius> Thanks
15:06:24 <Nokius> yeah I was wondering if we as community will take the change to present SailfishOs at FOSDOM 2015
15:06:54 <dr_gogeta86> #info Fabio Isgrò, community
15:07:24 <SK_work> with the HADK thing and people on #sailfishos-porters, I think it makes sense
15:07:25 <Nokius> I found out that a lot of people  are intrested in SailfishOS but they dont have the chance to get in touch with it
15:07:40 <SK_work> and it will show that SailfishOS is not Jolla-controlled
15:07:51 <cybette> I really like the idea, if we can have 5-6 people who are committed to being at the event, we can demo Sailfish on Jolla and Android devices
15:07:58 <Nokius> Yes SK_work you are right
15:08:14 <tbr> my question is: jolla driven or community driven
15:08:22 <SK_work> tbr: good point
15:08:23 <cybette> the stand needs at least 2 people present at all times
15:08:36 <Nokius> cybette you just takes my words
15:08:36 <tbr> if community driven, then Nemo, Mer _and_ Sailfish
15:08:43 <cybette> Nokius: :)
15:08:49 <tbr> If Jolla driven, then I don't care for it.
15:08:55 <SK_work> tbr: fact is Sailfish drains much effort on Mer Nemo
15:09:05 <lbt> drives, not drains :)
15:09:08 <SK_work> however, Mer Nemo and Sailfish makes more sense in FOSDEM than just sailfish
15:09:10 <SK_work> lbt: both
15:09:13 <lbt> +1
15:09:21 <Nokius> +1
15:09:26 <faenil> ahah :D
15:09:47 <faenil> yep, it would be cool to have a Nemo/Mer/Sailfish stand
15:09:51 <tbr> then I motion for it to be a community effort with Jolla being invited to support it. Not the other way around.
15:09:57 <cybette> how about community driven, but I will try to get some support from Jolla in things like swag
15:09:58 <SK_work> IMO, community based will help Mer/Nemo/Sailfish gain recognition, FLOSS SW are community based :)
15:09:59 <lbt> I think that Jolla should have a stand because that's how companies attend
15:10:01 <SK_work> tbr: +1
15:10:12 <lbt> but I think that the community should drive talks and suchlike
15:10:15 <tbr> cybette: very much welcome
15:10:21 <SK_work> lbt: is there a need of having a community stand ?
15:10:24 <lbt> no
15:10:28 <SK_work> damn
15:10:32 <SK_work> a company stand
15:10:39 <SK_work> I meant a company stand of course
15:10:40 <tbr> that's where I stop caring though
15:10:52 <lbt> well, typically communities don't do stands other than for sales/memorabilia
15:10:57 <SK_work> I see one potential (huge) problem
15:11:03 <tbr> as my paycheque (if I would be getting one) doesn't come from jollahq
15:11:10 <pdanek> It's like Red Hat stand vs Fedora stand, both can I think!
15:11:16 <SK_work> is that: will Jolla allow community to go demo / present their own OS
15:11:58 <lbt> tbr: I think the point is that jolla "attend" and contribute by having a stand - but that just provides a mechanism to get jolla people there. Then the people are all part of the same community
15:12:00 <SK_work> pdanek: fact is that SFOS separation into OSS vs company is more blurry: you have parts of SFOS open, people working on it to port to Android, but the whole OS is closed and supported by Jolla
15:12:09 <SK_work> lbt: hum
15:12:48 <lbt> personally I think SFOS as-such is not fully OSS and should not be a headline at FOSDEM (since it is heavily OSS)
15:13:03 <SK_work> lbt: +1
15:13:03 <cybette> what lbt described is how we had set up at XDA dev con. where community people also participated and certainly allowed to demo Sailfish
15:13:19 <lbt> however I think SFOS drives lots of open stuff like Mer, HADK and nemo and that is all open
15:13:25 <SK_work> but problem is that parts of it is: a lot of HA layer is now opened
15:13:26 <SK_work> yep
15:14:01 <SK_work> cybette: but will community guys be allowed to give a presentation ? that's much more than just demoing
15:14:14 <lbt> of course
15:14:23 <cybette> sure
15:14:28 <pdanek> +1
15:14:43 <SK_work> cool
15:14:45 <SK_work> LGTM
15:14:50 <tbr> then we should have a mer/nemo community meeting, where we discuss a separate mer/nemo stand that may show how on the side how that also enables the commercial sfos
15:15:07 <pdanek> I can easily imagine community who mastered their Sailfish during last 1+ year to demo Sailfish to others and answer questions.
15:15:07 <lbt> tbr: I tend to agree
15:15:35 <AL13N_work> this is not a mer-meeting?
15:15:39 <SK_work> why not
15:15:46 <SK_work> AL13N_work: SFOS community meeting ongoing
15:15:54 <AL13N_work> in #mer-meeting
15:16:05 <AL13N_work> you can see my confusion
15:16:18 <lbt> AL13N_work: mer enables communities built around it to use the mer infra rather than fragment
15:16:20 <tbr> AL13N_work: yes, the mer community allows jolla to have their community meetings here
15:16:21 <SK_work> AL13N_work: yes, this chan is for all mer-related meeting (SFOS based on mer), and for extension, for meetings :)
15:16:34 <cybette> AL13N_work: just as Mer enables Sailfish, #mer-meeting enables SFOS meetings :)
15:16:40 <lbt> haha
15:16:42 <lbt> any more?
15:16:43 <tbr> :)
15:16:48 <AL13N_work> i'll shut up now
15:17:17 <pdanek> Demoing Sailfish OS already happens by community on Linux conferences, examples: OpenSUSE conference: http://youtu.be/y-mwy2iVrjw, or openalt.cz in Brno, Czech Republic
15:17:20 <AL13N_work> my point was, is there a need for seperate meeting for deciding mer stand?
15:17:35 <AL13N_work> we're all mer people in one way or other
15:17:38 <SK_work> pdanek: cool
15:17:55 <SK_work> I do think that there is a need of stand separation
15:18:01 <SK_work> one side is the full opensource side
15:18:10 <cybette> pdanek: indeed, there have been many community people doing demos and occasionally presentations on Sailfish OS at different local events
15:18:13 <SK_work> (Mer, Nemo and maybe some of the open-sailfish parts)
15:18:19 <SK_work> another is the company
15:18:21 <lbt> SK_work: tbr:  yep -  I have that feeling from time to time
15:18:56 <lbt> just clarify "hey, we're totally not driven by Jolla even though we love 'em (usually)"
15:20:07 <SK_work> lbt: yep
15:20:37 <SK_work> anything more to add ?
15:20:42 <SK_work> when is FOSDEM for instance :)
15:20:46 <lbt> feb
15:20:50 <cybette> who will be in charge from community side?
15:21:05 <cybette> it'll be good to have point of contact
15:21:05 <kimmoli> 31 January & 1 February 2015
15:21:11 <SK_work> thanks kimmoli
15:21:14 <lbt> kimmoli: ooh, early
15:21:19 <cybette> #link https://fosdem.org/2015/
15:21:35 <cybette> #info FOSDEM 2015 in Brussels, 31 Jan - 1 Feb
15:21:37 <lbt> I feel like doing a Mer talk this time
15:21:43 <AL13N_work> i'll attend it
15:21:43 <SK_work> #action better to have two stands, Jolla one and community one (Mer, Nemo)
15:21:57 <SK_work> #action Community presentation on SailfishOS are welcomed
15:22:03 <SK_work> damn
15:22:04 <faenil> thanks SK_work
15:22:05 <SK_work> #undo
15:22:09 <SK_work> #undo
15:22:14 <SK_work> faenil: please undo
15:22:16 <tbr> that's chair only, faenil
15:22:16 <faenil> wanted to #info? :D
15:22:18 <SK_work> wanted to use info
15:22:19 <SK_work> yes
15:22:21 <pdanek> Is there enough content to show with Mer + Nemo?
15:22:25 <faenil> #undo
15:22:25 <Merbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Action object at 0x92d4850>
15:22:28 <SK_work> faenil: please info them :)
15:22:36 <tbr> one more undo
15:22:39 <faenil> #undo
15:22:39 <Merbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Action object at 0x92d4b10>
15:22:44 <SK_work> pdanek: you can show some sailfishos thingie
15:22:49 <SK_work> glacier homescreen too
15:22:56 <SK_work> locusf: ^ ?
15:22:56 <faenil> #info better to have two stands, Jolla one and community one (Mer, Nemo)
15:23:05 <tbr> this happens a lot at fosdem
15:23:06 <Nokius> I 'll attend
15:23:07 <locusf> and even possibly Nemo edition HADK :)
15:23:11 <faenil> #info Community presentation on SailfishOS are welcomed
15:23:15 <tbr> where you have the underlying open source projects
15:23:21 <SK_work> HADK also could be quite nice to showcase
15:23:27 <tbr> and still see some things from commercial products on top as showcase
15:23:28 <SK_work> even if it is just for running sailfishos
15:23:34 <tbr> primary should be mer/nemo though
15:23:49 <lbt> I must say I think a double stand would be nice - somewhere we could congregate and hopefully share manning them both too
15:23:49 <SK_work> tbr: it is true that there are not nice demos for Mer Nemo
15:24:00 <lbt> SK_work: we have until jan31
15:24:05 <SK_work> :D
15:24:08 <AL13N_work> lbt: ask for them next to eachother
15:24:12 <AL13N_work> then you have 2 tables
15:24:18 <lbt> AL13N_work: yep
15:24:37 <cybette> #info Deadline for stands: 20 November 2014 https://fosdem.org/2015/news/2014-09-19-call-for-participation-part-two/
15:24:38 <lbt> #info Try and get the stands adjacent to ease manning them
15:24:41 <locusf> SK_work: we just gotta wait for the mer + nemo merge to be complete for armv7hl in order to build images for the N9 for example
15:24:54 <SK_work> locusf: +1
15:25:24 <SK_work> this time I think that I will come too
15:25:25 <locusf> HADK needs a lot of work to become a wikipage to eg. wiki.merproject.org
15:25:50 <locusf> so that we can have a nemo edition pulling middleware from official merged repositories
15:26:04 <SK_work> yep
15:26:08 <cybette> can we have a representative/point of contact on the community side? it's easier from organization perspective. of course everyone is welcome to get involved in the planning.
15:26:18 <locusf> I'm still thinking a lot about attending FOSDEM
15:26:25 <SK_work> speaking of this, maybe for the next section, to do a point about how the merging is going :)
15:26:27 <locusf> its a bit of a logistical issue
15:26:37 * faenil is not sure he can attend, depends on what happens after graduation
15:26:47 <pdanek> WHat are the restrictions to attend FOSDEM in general? Do you need an expensive ticket?
15:26:59 <SK_work> pdanek: FOSDEM is free iirc
15:27:03 <kimmoli> free
15:27:06 <SK_work> going to Brussels, not free
15:27:11 <pdanek> :D
15:27:20 <vgrade_> some free beer
15:27:20 <faenil> :D
15:27:29 <lbt> pdanek: overall it's one of the lowest cost events
15:27:31 <SK_work> vgrade_: really ? free beer ?
15:27:37 <lbt> yep
15:27:38 * pdanek Will perhaps attend this year if his new job allows.
15:27:48 <kimmoli> it says only "beer" nowadays
15:27:53 <MSameer> And a bed. It will be cold :)
15:27:57 <SK_work> :(
15:28:14 <Nokius> Just checked the the Stands  section here (https://fosdem.org/2015/news/2014-09-19-call-for-participation-part-two/) not sure if Jolla can get a stand. Stands are for open source projects
15:28:14 <tbr> if you are lucky you can usually score some beer at the beer event on friday
15:28:16 <AL13N_work> percona /mariadb stand had free beer last year
15:28:27 <SK_work> I guess we won't have contact point for Jolla as cybette want
15:28:37 <AL13N_work> and heavy beer too, you did have to fill in a questionaire
15:28:44 <tbr> traditionally larger projects and companies hand out some beer tokens to their community there *hint* *hint*
15:28:52 <SK_work> I can't unfortunately, not even have time to hak :(
15:28:56 <SK_work> tbr: :D
15:29:18 <cybette> Nokius: we had a stand in 2013
15:29:30 <Nokius> cybette: okay
15:29:39 <AL13N_work> this reminds me, mariadb and percona had a shared stand, while mariadb is open source, percona is not
15:29:43 <AL13N_work> it's sort of similar
15:30:35 <cybette> contact person doesn't have to confirm s/he's going to FOSDEM right now. I help organize/plan a lot of events that I don't even get to attend personally :P
15:30:47 <Nokius> cybette: gave "project" to match attention
15:31:08 <pdanek> http://youtu.be/Ed8duAnlwHc - Presentation by Carsten Munk, recorded during FOSDEM at 1 February 2014.
15:32:05 <Nokius> cybette: Never did something before like this but I can try my best hope community will help :)
15:32:43 <locusf> what was the next topic?
15:33:00 <cybette> Nokius: great :) it's not tough work if others in the community chip in and help *hint* *hint*
15:33:28 <Nokius> ^.^
15:33:32 <cybette> #info FOSDEM planning: Contact point for community is Nokius, contact point from Jolla side is cybette
15:34:01 <SK_work> :)
15:34:10 <tbr> Nokius: a wiki page listing things and status quo helps a lot
15:34:12 <faenil> wanna switch to the next one?
15:34:18 <faenil> 1min left actually :D
15:34:19 <SK_work> faenil: come back on this chan instead of compiling xulrunner
15:34:22 <SK_work> ah !
15:34:27 <cybette> :D
15:34:30 <SK_work> faenil: yep, switching to next one is a good idea
15:34:36 <faenil> I'm working for mer! :D
15:34:41 <faenil> #topic General discussion - all (20 mins)
15:34:47 <faenil> all yours :P
15:35:09 <faenil> if anybody has a question for sailors, or want to discuss about something sailfish-related, this is the right moment :D
15:35:17 <Nokius> lbt:  can we use the wiki to organize the community stand?
15:35:26 <tbr> anyone from the community or from jolla going to LC/ELCE/CO/...
15:35:28 <tbr> ?
15:35:36 * tbr will be attending
15:35:45 <faenil> what is that?
15:35:49 <cybette> tbr: from Jolla no
15:35:52 <SK_work> Stskeeps + faenil: any report on the grand MerNemo Merging ?
15:36:00 <tbr> Linux foundation conferences
15:36:09 <tbr> this time in Duesseldorf, next week
15:36:11 <cybette> faenil: http://events.linuxfoundation.org/events/linuxcon-europe
15:36:31 <lbt> Nokius: sure
15:36:33 <faenil> NemoMer merge on my side: I've been working on making packages compile on gcc4.8.3
15:36:47 <locusf> and good work you have done :)
15:36:49 <lbt> tbr: I proposed, rejected
15:36:52 <faenil> after more than 20 pull requests, we're close to finish the job
15:36:53 <Nokius> lbt: oky is there a event section?
15:36:57 <tbr> lbt: ok
15:37:00 <lbt> Nokius: not yet
15:37:05 <SK_work> faenil: only xulrunner + QtWebkit5 left ?
15:37:12 <faenil> locusf: thanks!
15:37:14 <Nokius> lbt :)
15:37:19 <tbr> lbt: I'm just attending, nothing more (and looking for a job...)
15:37:22 <lbt> tbr: was quite disappointed about that - ELC NA was good
15:37:25 <SK_work> Stskeeps, faenil what's next phase ?
15:37:37 <tbr> *nod*
15:37:42 <lbt> SK_work: probably the webhooks I'm doing are a blocker
15:37:42 <faenil> SK_work: yes, only xulrunner and qtwebkit5 left, and we already know the failure reasons for those, so they should be fixed soon (tm)
15:37:57 <faenil> SK_work: don't know about that :)
15:38:11 <lbt> #info I'm working hard on the open webhooks implementation to enable easier work on mer/nemo
15:38:12 <SK_work> #info Mer-Nemo merge: faenil fixed compilation issue with gcc4.8.3, only xulrunner qtwebkit5 left
15:38:23 <SK_work> #info they will be fixed soon (tm)
15:38:29 <SK_work> lbt: good
15:38:42 <pdanek> +1 for Nemo + Mer merge
15:38:42 <lbt> I need to update the wiki to allow Nokius to do device template things too
15:38:44 <locusf> and all other architectures will probably follow once i486 is done
15:39:01 <lbt> x86_64 needs love in mer-tools iirc
15:39:41 <SK_work> btw cybette
15:39:52 <SK_work> + eleroux
15:40:05 <SK_work> I think some info about update delay could be nice
15:40:13 <faenil> indeed :D
15:40:15 <SK_work> what's wrong, what's going on, next ETA ?
15:40:32 <faenil> we like details! you know, picky people :p
15:42:50 <SK_work> cybette: eleroux ^ ?
15:42:53 <SK_work> anything ? :(
15:43:02 <cybette> I just know it's probably not going to be this week, we're up to RC10 internally
15:43:06 <cybette> or was it 11
15:43:15 <faenil> 11
15:43:19 <cybette> :D
15:43:33 <SK_work> :D
15:43:41 <cybette> so many RCs, lost count
15:43:50 <vgrade_> too many bash patches
15:44:22 <cybette> some important fixes need more testing
15:44:59 <SK_work> thanks
15:45:15 <SK_work> basically no ETA (as it happens often in SW dev :))
15:45:43 <eleroux> SK_work: no ETA :)
15:46:15 <cybette> we want an update to be an upgrade, not downgrade. and we have a tough QA team to deal with (which is a good thing)
15:46:41 <SK_work> ok :)
15:46:43 <daitheflu> I see more and more of mispleased people on TJC, are you planning on doing something about that ? (Im not talking about censorship, of course)
15:47:01 <stephg> daitheflu: unhappy how
15:47:02 <stephg> ?
15:47:48 <cybette> daitheflu: no, we don't do censorship (except for obvious spam and obscenity)
15:48:09 <daitheflu> stephg : about the lack of communication, about the lack of features, just read some topics there
15:48:46 <tbr> you can't please everybody, but communications can always be improved, it helps a lot.
15:48:54 <eleroux> daitheflu: people build up amazing level of expectation and it's tricky to please everyone, no matter how much we communicate
15:49:05 <eleroux> tbr: indeed
15:49:32 <SK_work> daitheflu: +1 for communication
15:49:35 <daitheflu> cybette: thankfully :)
15:49:57 <SK_work> yep, speaking about communication issues, some issue management is rather unclear
15:50:06 <SK_work> update delay is a problem
15:50:21 <cybette> we have people going through TJC regularly to take note of bugs and features and make sure the important ones will be attended to (e.g. in internal bugzilla)
15:50:24 <SK_work> but there is the pin issue too, we know the solution is to contact care, but there is no webpage / blog to explain this
15:50:25 <cybette> but yes, ew can't please everyone
15:50:32 <SK_work> and Twitter can reach everybody
15:50:54 <SK_work> so, it seems that officially, Jolla didn't respond (ignore) that issue
15:51:33 <Nokius> *leave* I 'll work on a wiki page for the FOSDM community stand which shows status and other related things
15:51:34 <daitheflu> eleroux: yep, that's also how I understand it (strong expectations), but still, someone interested in Jolla/SailfishOS that comes there and read all that negative (and unanswered) stuff could be easily discouraged (IMHO)
15:51:52 <SK_work> Nokius: please send the wiki to SailfishOS ML
15:51:58 <SK_work> and maybe to TMO too :)
15:51:59 <SK_work> thanks
15:52:50 <pdanek> Will Sailfish/Mer/Nemo forever use TMO? Is there alternate forum planned?
15:52:53 <cybette> Nokius: thanks for taking the initiative!
15:53:01 <SK_work> pdanek: they are using TJC youmean
15:53:12 <tbr> Nokius: mer mailing list too
15:53:12 <SK_work> SFOS community is usually on TJC, part are on TMO
15:53:18 <SK_work> Mer Nemo is more about mer ML and IRC
15:53:20 <Morpog_PC> pdanek, it's the community who chooses it's place
15:53:33 <Morpog_PC> not the company
15:53:43 <SK_work> btw, lbt Mer ML is still full of span, do you know if there is an active way to kill them ?
15:53:52 <SK_work> like moderated or closed ML ?
15:54:05 <lbt> tbr: were you going to take over the ml ?
15:54:07 <tbr> SK_work: move it to mer infra...
15:54:14 <faenil> 1min left warning
15:54:18 <vgrade_> #info I attended the xdadev conference last weekend with Nokius lbt and sjayna.  Talked to a number of folks interested in getting something new on their devices, some have dropped into sailfishos-porters since.  The mix of Jolla and community worked well I think.  My thought at the time was that I should have had a nemomobile device with me.  Mayb
15:54:18 <vgrade_> e at FOSDEM
15:54:24 <lbt> yeah, that's the plan - not actively progressing it
15:54:26 <tbr> lbt: we can move it to mer infra, I have limited time after ELCE
15:54:38 <lbt> ok
15:54:54 <SK_work> mer ML is not on Mer infra ?
15:54:54 <lbt> vgrade_: yes - I'd have liked other UIs too
15:54:58 <faenil> vgrade_: nemomobile UI is not coming back to life until the merge is complete
15:54:58 <SK_work> learned something today
15:54:58 <cybette> vgrade_: thanks for the summary :)
15:55:00 <faenil> so...
15:55:02 <lbt> SK_work: no, sadly
15:55:05 <SK_work> lbt: :/
15:55:06 <SK_work> ok
15:55:10 <Morpog_PC> oh, we're in commnity meeting and I didn't even notice, lol
15:55:10 <SK_work> thanks vgrade_ :)
15:55:20 <faenil> alright, time to wrap up
15:55:29 <faenil> #topic Wrap up and next meeting (5 mins)
15:56:16 <SK_work> :)
15:56:16 <faenil> so, next meeting on 21?
15:56:28 <SK_work> I miss weekly meetings
15:56:29 <faenil> what time, 10UTC? or should we leave 15UTC?
15:56:43 <eleroux> 10UTC
15:56:45 <SK_work> especially when events like Mer Nemo Merge + Update release etc. are going on
15:56:50 <cybette> SK_work: we haven't been getting many topic proposals for weekly
15:56:50 * tbr votes against 10UTC
15:56:50 <SK_work> 10UTC
15:56:55 <SK_work> cybette: indeed
15:56:59 <faenil> SK_work: me too, but I also see that Jolla is partecipating less and less, so I don't know if it makes sense
15:57:03 <tbr> the people that it's intended for NEVER show up
15:57:15 <tbr> if they want it at 10 UTC, they might at least show up
15:58:10 <lbt> faenil: there weren't a lot of issues raised though
15:58:13 <faenil> so should we got 15utc?
15:58:20 <eleroux> tbr: we earlier decided we alternate between both times
15:58:59 <cybette> yeah and I think more Jolla folks will show up at 10 UTC (I'll try to kick them more either way)
15:59:01 <faenil> lbt: I have personally lost a bit of interest after seeing that the people attending from Jolla side were fewer and fewer
15:59:08 <faenil> and the communication and transparency isn't improving
15:59:16 <faenil> but I should really put this in the topics list
15:59:20 <lbt> faenil: what was asked and not answered?
15:59:24 <eleroux> exactly
15:59:25 <faenil> I forgot once again
15:59:29 <tbr> eleroux: and I challenged that last week and I'm challenging it AGAIN
15:59:46 <eleroux> tbr: put it as a topic no?
15:59:54 <lbt> tbr: raise it for the next meeting and ask for a vote
15:59:58 <eleroux> as well as the ppl you miss in that meeting?
16:00:00 <cybette> lbt: +1
16:00:07 <faenil> agreed
16:00:08 <lbt> tbr: if no-one turns up it will highlight the point
16:00:12 * tbr shakes his head, it WAS in the meeting last time, it will be AGAIN
16:00:15 <faenil> so, for the next time, we should do 10Utc again
16:00:19 <tbr> and I #INFO'd it last time
16:00:32 <faenil> tbr: if you did already, no point in doing it again
16:00:38 <lbt> yes there is
16:00:46 <lbt> these things take time to resolve
16:00:53 <lbt> gently does it
16:01:04 <tbr> #info I motion _again_ for abandoning the 1000 UTC timeslot, it fails to attract the people it was meant for.
16:01:18 <faenil> tbr: I see you proposed it but there was no vote
16:01:22 <lbt> #info seconded and call for a vote next time
16:01:30 <faenil> yeah
16:01:48 <cybette> #action Put the meeting time slot to vote at next meeting, and allow people to vote by proxy if they cannot attend
16:01:58 <SK_work> good
16:01:59 <faenil> who's the chairman at the next meeting?
16:02:11 <lbt> lets see the topics first
16:02:23 <faenil> ?
16:02:30 <lbt> it's good to select a chair that isn't totally active in the discussions
16:02:40 <tbr> indeed
16:02:49 <vgrade_> faenil: thanks for hosting this time
16:02:50 <faenil> I see, okay
16:02:57 <faenil> vgrade_: no problem
16:02:57 <cybette> faenil: yes many thanks for chairing
16:03:10 <lbt> and if anyone wants to chair then just say so on the ml - it's a good way to help out
16:03:15 <cybette> I can chair next time unless someone else volunteers
16:03:17 <cybette> lbt: +1
16:03:31 <faenil> ok thanks cybette :)
16:03:36 <lbt> #info if anyone wants to chair then just say so on the ml - it's a good way to help out
16:04:41 <cybette> #info Next meeting Tues Oct-21 @ 10:00 UTC, Chairperson cybette
16:04:57 <faenil> cybette: gah, I was writing :D
16:05:07 <cybette> faenil: sorry, I wasn't sure :)
16:05:16 <faenil> thanks everyone for attending!
16:05:20 <faenil> #endmeeting