15:00:21 #startmeeting SailfishOS, open source, collaboration: 3-February @ 15:00 UTC 15:00:21 Meeting started Tue Feb 3 15:00:21 2015 UTC. The chair is cybette. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Meetings. 15:00:21 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 15:00:37 #info Welcome to another week of SailfishOS OSS and collaboration meeting 15:00:46 #info Meeting info and agenda: http://lists.sailfishos.org/pipermail/devel/2015-February/005594.html 15:00:58 I'm the meeting chair for today and will be keeping time and order. Please behave and show mutual respect, and let's have a productive discussion! 15:01:04 #topic Brief introductions (5 min), prefix your information with #info 15:01:09 #info Andrea Bernabei, nemo contributor and jolla user 15:01:16 #info Aleksi Suomalainen Nemo Mobile community contributor 15:01:19 #info Siteshwar, community 15:01:21 #info Steph Gosling, community 15:01:25 #info Simonas Leleiva, Sailfish for Everyone sailor (on Android devices, SFE) 15:01:31 #info vgrade, communtity 15:01:50 #info Carol Chen, Community chef at Jolla, hatless chair today 15:02:49 ah merbot is not op, so no topic set 15:02:50 17:01 < cybette> #topic Brief introductions (5 min), prefix your information with #info 15:02:57 (for those who just joined) 15:03:20 sledges: thanks. need some ops around here... 15:04:07 vgrade: you aren't op here ? 15:04:17 #info Thomas Ruecker 15:04:25 #info Bernd Wachter, Jolla release guy 15:04:40 #info Pami Ketolainen, Bugzilla, TJC, etc. development @ Jolla 15:05:34 one more min for intro (prefix with #info) 15:05:46 #info Leif-Jöran Olsson, free software dev and porter 15:06:01 #info Marko Saukko - Hw adaptation @ Jolla 15:06:32 #info Nazanin Mirarab - Quality assurance engineer 15:06:55 ok ops or not, let's continue 15:07:00 #topic Discussion about the proposal for the Mer package maintainers to 15:07:06 oops 15:07:09 #undo 15:07:09 Removing item from minutes: 15:07:18 #topic Discussion about the proposal for the Mer package maintainers to support vendor tracking of changes in Mer - nazanin (30 min) 15:07:45 Damn I'm late 15:07:51 #info Jolla proposed and requested from Mer package maintainers to please adopt a policy of requiring bug numbers in some commits to Mer packages for supporting vendor tracking of changes in Mer. 15:07:59 I'm here today for any questions or further discussions about the proposal sent to the mailing list last week...more info : https://lists.sailfishos.org/pipermail/devel/2015-January/005571.html 15:08:00 #info Read more in here: https://lists.sailfishos.org/pipermail/devel/2015-January/005571.html 15:08:51 so let's discuss this and direct your questions to nazanin 15:09:04 :) 15:09:55 anyone? 15:09:58 first question: is there any known mer-nemo community who's using Mer/Nemo? 15:09:59 first question, what's currently in place ? I got some unofficial news that the bot is in place and that the mer bz -> jolla bz bridge is in place 15:09:59 #info David Greaves; sailor and Mer guy (was on a call :) ) 15:11:03 SK_work: yes, the bridge is in place to make things work for now. of course, not all is automated for now... some parts will be done manually, and automation will make its way in eventually 15:11:20 what's important for now is that the infra is ready for a good start 15:11:20 nazanin: can we have a crash test ? 15:11:56 ie: one case that is solved by using the new bridge, with external and internal tracking 15:12:25 SK_work: we've tested the infra internally, pketolai_ more on this ^ 15:12:26 SK_work, nazanin: sorry the bridge is not yet in place but I'll deploy it tonight :) 15:12:51 :( 15:12:52 ok 15:12:59 faenil had a question ^ 15:13:14 #info Mer bz -> Jolla bz bridge will be deployed tonight by pketolai_, not everything will be automated right now, some parts require manual work, and automation will make its way in eventually 15:13:26 nazanin, is there any known mer-nemo community who's using Mer/Nemo? 15:13:41 faenil: Aard lbt might have clearer answer for this 15:13:42 fwiw there's no real infra changes needed mer-side 15:13:52 #info Kimmo Lindholm, TOHs et al. 15:14:04 cybette: is the bot down? no topic changes... 15:14:24 op issues 15:14:30 kimmoli: i didn't have ops just now.. yeah 15:16:04 lbt / Stskeeps should have the most knowledge about who's using mer 15:16:45 hi sorry to be late 15:17:00 because, if there's nobody using it, or there's nobody *here* using it, then there's no point discussing it? :) 15:17:01 #info Fabio Isgrò sf/nemomobile user 15:17:31 faenil: well, technically, nemomobile (glacier) guys are the one using it the most 15:17:35 and they benefit from this 15:17:41 well "we" benefit from this 15:17:44 gogeta: it's ok, welcome :) 15:17:47 heheh 15:17:50 SK_work, aside from glacier guys 15:18:10 faenil: the other people were KDE folks, but they went away 15:18:17 I have seen noone else "officially" 15:18:25 me neither...so... 15:18:31 faenil: I think the question is, do these potentially other people have a chance to find out about this meeting? 15:18:34 I was curious 15:18:41 there are 2/3 other groups who are using Mer 15:18:45 as Stskeeps or Aard said (maybe), see this proposal as an enabled for more people being interested 15:18:48 what about maui? 15:18:49 hawaii/maui 15:18:50 lbt: have some project name ? 15:18:53 maui yeah 15:18:54 it's for them to talk about themselves 15:18:56 ah right Maui! 15:18:57 vgrade, exactly 15:18:57 isn't the maintainer here ? 15:19:02 plfiorini 15:19:04 is here ? 15:19:10 lbt, do they know about this meeting? :) 15:19:27 gogeta: no, and it has been a long time not seeing him 15:19:41 KDE plasma 5 also building on 15:19:48 SK_work: I see him on #mer from time to time 15:19:52 faenil: probably ... 15:19:56 vgrade: really ? 15:20:11 is om #sailfishos-porters right now 15:20:47 i asked him to join here 15:20:56 ok :) 15:21:16 so he didn't know? 15:21:33 gogeta, is he online? 15:21:37 yep 15:21:38 another question: does this process requires the mer-nemo merge for work on nemo ? 15:21:41 would it make sense to reschedule this topic for next meeting with relevant people being aware and invited? (15 min left) 15:21:44 gogeta, I mean, is he active? 15:21:47 his IRC client is, but is he active? 15:21:49 cybette, yeah, probably 15:21:58 and send an invitation to mer-general too 15:22:00 faenil, sometimes 15:22:02 for example, does this require the nemo components to move to gitlab for exampel ? 15:22:05 cybette, I mean, I can just say that the move looks good to me 15:22:06 sledges++ 15:22:31 I doubt anyone from glacier side dislikes the move 15:22:41 if anyone does, please speak : 15:22:42 :) 15:22:44 sledges: at least the original proposal went to mer-general 15:22:53 but there were no follow-ups on those emails when nazanin sent them out first, i'm sure Pier read at least the one on mer-general 15:23:05 if we can benefit from it, I mean we really don't directly contribute to mer that much 15:23:24 no dislikes otherwise 15:23:30 SK_work: it will happen for the nemo:mw projects that are being merged into mer... HW adaptation part of nemo bz is not being merged 15:23:54 locusf: we might require contribution to nemo mw 15:23:59 SK_work: nemo-mer merge is not required for this, but probably would make it easier for contributors to find things. the assumption is that the merge will happen, though 15:24:02 SK_work: yes 15:24:04 or need to track contribution from nemo 15:24:13 Aard: ok 15:24:15 SK_work: mer components live in mer gitlab, yyes 15:24:18 Aard, I wish the merge was only needed to help "finding" things :D 15:24:47 so if a component merges then the mer _service repo becomes the gitlab one 15:24:52 faenil: I see mainly two reasons for the merge a) clean up things b) make repos available in countries where github is blocked 15:25:24 Aard, was just kidding, I meant that at the moment it blocks much more (nemo packages not webhooked anymore!) 15:25:31 I kinda didn't realise that the ldap group/gitlab group thing was seen as a blocker 15:25:36 hello 15:25:40 so I'll push that up my list 15:25:40 hi plfiorini 15:25:41 :) 15:25:42 faenil: uh, what? 15:25:48 SK_work: hi 15:25:58 Aard, let's talk about this later ;) 15:26:01 hi plfiorini , sorry we didn't invite you to this meeting earlier by forgetting to write to mer-general 15:26:02 i have like 10 seconds, i was about to go out 15:26:10 ew 15:26:29 hum, maybe reschedule is better than fitting the discussion in 10s 15:26:31 sledges: don't worry 15:26:31 plfiorini: just in case you have any questions about using MER#xxxx in the bug names during contribution 15:26:47 *commit names 15:26:53 plfiorini: re https://lists.sailfishos.org/pipermail/devel/2015-January/005571.html 15:27:12 sledges: ah no just tell me what to do and i'll do it 15:27:25 that's the spirit:) 15:27:36 ahahaha 15:27:36 haha :) 15:27:41 this whole change is certainly for better and more open collab 15:27:50 not without hurdles, but hence we discuss them now 15:30:05 something important with this proposal is that it do not impact others 15:30:07 * sledges hopes from this change we'll have much more mer/nemo adopters replying if faenil asks the question in #mer-meeting after a year:D 15:30:10 opinions on having this topic again next meeting or is it ok we continue discussions/questions if any on mer-general and irc? 15:30:13 just adding some commit messages 15:30:19 ok gotta run now, but as far as i remember meeting logs are recorded somewhere, so i'll be able to catch up 15:30:27 sledges, :D 15:30:31 so, it sould be ok for some people to adopt it, and for other to do it if they see benefits 15:30:40 sledges: :) 15:30:50 plfiorini, if you read the original proposal 15:30:50 Aard: does MER#xxxx reference (and [tag] also) can be in commit description instead? 15:30:51 oh crap 15:31:00 in case a vendor wants to keep commit msgs clean 15:31:03 SK_work: yes, that's the main point of this. we just proposed one way and asked for adaptation 15:31:06 I would say: let's go with this proposal, and see how this works 15:31:13 sledges have a good point indeed 15:31:37 5 more min 15:31:39 nazanin: sledges: personally I feel that it should be in description by default instead of summary of git commit. As git removes [] stuff because of patch X/y 15:32:01 Sage__: removes [] when? 15:32:01 nazanin: sledges: do commit that has that in summary and then do git format-patch -1 and check the patch file. 15:32:02 Sage__: does git removes the [] ? 15:32:07 wasn't it ised for tagging ? 15:32:14 Sage__: but isn't it in the commit msg for on the internal side? 15:32:37 for ones on* 15:32:52 nazanin: depends how pketolai_ implemented it:) and it's easy to extend 15:32:58 i saw today a commit with [mce] in desc ;) 15:33:20 sledges: right :) 15:33:25 SK_work: it can be anywhere in the git message, or part of an annotated tag 15:33:30 sledges: does it works in desc ? 15:33:34 Aard: ah ? 15:33:35 \o/ 15:33:47 yes it works in desc as well 15:33:49 then better allow the MER#xxx be everywhere too 15:33:58 never knew that this was allowed 15:34:15 hmmp... or was it that git am removes it 15:34:22 #info the MER#xxx can be anywhere in the git message, or part of an annotated tag 15:34:27 can someone edit the wiki to have these guidelines be clear too ? 15:34:38 SK_work, I think it's written there already :) 15:34:39 SK_work: yeah, I'll do that 15:34:40 * faenil checks 15:34:50 * sledges hides 15:34:59 don't know how is the state of contribution wiki these days 15:34:59 nazanin: do you think another meeting is needed? 15:35:01 * SK_work checks 15:35:01 SK_work: also see the proposal for the issue of scaring off drive-by contributors, we'd like to have the responsibility of ensuring that there is a bug reference by whoever is maintainer of that component & merges (i.e., accept, add bug if necessary and explain for next time over "go away, you forgot a bug") 15:35:17 or is everyone ok with SK_work's suggestion "let's go with this proposal, and see how this works" 15:35:29 +1 15:35:30 cybette: I guess yes, but maybe some time after we've started adapting to the changes, so we'll see what will come up 15:35:42 nazanin: sounds like a plan 15:35:52 I'm not sure, it depends on how many other Mer community there are out there 15:35:52 yes 15:36:02 maintainer can also merge PR by editing its description with added MER#xxx 15:36:03 I would also love to see a "crash test" 15:36:09 like a rather simple bug 15:36:15 to be done in this fashion 15:36:17 as an example 15:36:27 #info Topic will possibly be revisited at some time, after we've started adapting to the changes and to see what comes up 15:36:29 there are some nice nemo bugs being fixed ATM, without tracking 15:36:36 so having one being tracked could be nice 15:36:41 wiki updated: https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/FAQ#What_is_the_format_of_the_bug_included_in_the_commit_message.3F 15:36:50 wrapping up topic now! 15:36:51 #link https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/FAQ#What_is_the_format_of_the_bug_included_in_the_commit_message.3F 15:36:55 SK_work, https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Nemo/Development#Changelogs 15:37:17 hum ... scattered in two placves 15:37:24 nazanin: http://pastie.org/9883649 15:37:37 could be nice to have a wiki/Developement that groups this 15:37:42 it was git am that removes it if in summary 15:38:00 SK_work, I was talking about [], sledges is pointing to MER# 15:38:06 faenil: ok 15:38:07 yeah 15:38:33 times up. let's continue this discussion another time if needed. 15:38:40 #topic General discussions - everyone (15 min) 15:39:13 Any report from fosdem ? 15:39:33 so I was wondering if we need to touch on closed sfos middleware issue? 15:39:34 so we had FOSDEM over the past weekend, and Aard's email today about Early access to SailfishOS release. maybe something to comment on these? 15:40:04 locusf: +1 15:40:18 it used for eg. contacts and I was wondering if Jolla is going to contribute those changes back to qml-plugin-contacts or are they so closely coupled to sfos that its not feasible? 15:40:38 locusf: which lib ? silica-contacts ? 15:40:44 * MSameer missed the meeting :( 15:41:01 just a discussion opener really, I could add something to tjc as a reminder if more people are interested 15:41:04 SK_work: I'll check 15:41:33 I have a question for Aard: the message says "This helps us to improve quality by identifying critical issues which only show up in certain environments or device setups before rolling the update out to the larger crowd" but at the same time, it says that if you spot an issue, that will not stop the release, it will just end up in the "known issues" ...can you elaborate on that? 15:41:50 MSameer: http://merproject.org/meetings/mer-meeting/2015/mer-meeting.2015-02-03-15.00.log.txt :) 15:42:00 faenil: I would say: remember the unofficial bash update from nieldk ? this kind ofissue 15:42:27 sledges: it's in my scroll back buffer but reading logs is more boring then talking to people 15:42:31 SK_work: yes it was silica contacts 15:42:34 faenil: we will investigate the issue, and then decide if we'll fix it _or_ add it to know issues. so basically fixing time vs. regression risk vs. severity of problem 15:42:53 well, if it is serious enough I think it will block the release :) 15:42:55 Aard, great, thanks. I think I misunderstood one of the clauses 15:42:59 locusf: I think that it might be related to the UI, and that it is a small layer 15:43:07 locusf: same with the sailfish-accounts thuing 15:43:13 faenil: pretty standard ops I'd say :) 15:43:18 ew. massive data loss/ vulnerability , etc 15:43:29 (however, /me would like to have more OSS components, eg Silica) 15:43:31 SK_work: true 15:43:33 tbr, as in? 15:43:40 even under a quite restrictive license like GPLv2 + commercial 15:43:47 "Issues found during that period will either be fixed, or added to "known issues" on the release notes" 15:44:00 lbt, yes, I must have misread that before 15:44:02 faenil: what aard described. you triage and then have a result and act accordingly. 15:44:11 tbr, ah yeah, sure 15:44:29 it's cool to see this happening btw :) 15:44:55 MSameer: im sure the 1st topic will come back many times:) 15:44:55 faenil: np - I thought I put that so I just checked in case the edit didn't happen 15:45:05 Aard, I guess this implies early SDK release as well? for the developers part 15:45:17 lbt, :) 15:45:46 anyone wants to comment on 17:39 < gogeta> Any report from fosdem ? 15:45:57 faenil: sdk releases aren't part of this afaik 15:46:14 faenil: not right now, unfortunately, but it's being worked on. we have two problems: a) right now you can only have one sdk target installed b) we're missing some automation for generating sdk targets 15:46:24 lbt, ok, so basically the developer will have to test the eventually failing parts on the device 15:46:27 Aard, ok, thanks 15:46:29 once those are fixed (for which I don't have an ETA) we'll add early sdk access 15:46:37 okay, cool 15:46:39 I see the early access to updates was described as "first step towards a developer program", is anyone able to elaborate on what else / other steps the developer program might include? 15:46:49 aard for sdk you say qtcreator stuff ? 15:46:54 not vms ? 15:47:03 gogeta: the whole package 15:47:42 ok 15:48:03 5 more min 15:48:41 cybette, tnx for you interest ... was just a reminder for who attended it 15:49:02 one side note. If people want to have Chum (aka "Extras" with community QA etc), then this needs community work. E.g. the wiki page needs to be filled and a basic direction/process found. 15:49:09 #info one side note. If people want to have Chum (aka "Extras" with community QA etc), then this needs community work. E.g. the wiki page needs to be filled and a basic direction/process found. 15:49:13 #link https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Sailfish/Chum 15:49:15 mattaustin_: not all details are sketched out / publishable currently, but one part would be giving very early access to releases as well, not only close to releases. also the ability to properly handle all reports coming in from really early access 15:49:30 tbr: +1 15:49:31 gogeta: I was there too, but I'd like to hear what others have to say about it :) 15:49:38 quick qustion: Is there any kind of eta for accounts plugins becomin possible? 15:49:50 I won't be available for Chum, so it needs people to step up and do the work. 15:49:52 my one old idea was to use chum package manager as Nemo package manager 15:50:33 locusf: there was agreement with basil to reuse the package UI of OR in some way as it's open source 15:50:41 warehouse ? 15:50:47 tbr: ok 15:50:50 locusf: another thing that would need people to do the work 15:50:51 gogeta: yes 15:51:00 Aard: Yep, understandable - thanks for this, the access to releases will be very useful for app testing anyhow 15:51:04 TemeV: no, though it is being worked on. problem is that all settings plugin run in the same process, we're currently looking into ways to make privilege separation in those processes possible. once we have that we can open accounts plugins as well as other settings plugins 15:51:16 * lbt has to pop out to be a taxi .. bbiab o/ 15:51:25 gogeta: but it would be essentially a fork of warehouse, a _friendly_ fork that should be maintained in coordination 15:51:36 I hate forks 15:51:43 then you don't understand them 15:51:54 not every fork is evil 15:51:55 Aard: ok, so it's related to that problem. Thanks 15:52:11 tbr is just another blend exsist also for harmattan 15:52:13 anyway, this is no longer my concern and up to whomever picks up chum 15:52:22 user friendliness is needed for chum 15:52:32 tbr, you might want to info that? 15:52:40 or no one will use 15:52:45 faenil: what? 15:52:47 1 min left, wrap it up. 15:52:50 it 15:53:11 disclaimers for users of chum that you won't work on it from now on 15:53:13 and a warehouse-like app will be needed for chum 15:53:15 so it needs someone 15:53:35 #info I'm not available to work on Chum anymore. 15:53:49 #info tbr won't be available for chum, someone needs to step up and do the work. 15:53:50 just so that it doesn't get lost in the logs :) 15:54:13 #topic Wrap up and next meeting (10 min) 15:54:40 2 weeks later on Feb-17 @ 15 UTC? 15:54:51 and please remember to propose topics 15:56:15 i take the silence as yes :) 15:56:53 hehe 15:56:53 #info Next meeting Tues Feb-17 @ 15:00 UTC, Chairperson cybette (or if someone else volunteers) 15:57:08 last call for comments 15:58:26 tbr: pardon me, but what is chum? fishfood? 15:58:36 kimmoli: a community repository 15:58:36 bloody waters 15:58:45 lbt came up with the name 15:58:46 :D 15:59:00 yeah, it's quite self explaining :D 15:59:08 kimmoli: it didn't gather enough traction so far and is heavily work in progresss and needs community work 15:59:08 extras/extras-devel for Sailfish/Nemo :) 15:59:32 kimmoli: in addition I'm no longer available for Saiflish/Jolla community work. So it needs also someone else to push it. 15:59:52 well I pushed modRana to it a while ago 16:00:03 ok 16:00:07 M4rtinK: you'd need to push updates too :) 16:00:18 but nothing seems to be really happening with it 16:00:40 tbr: well, sure 16:00:40 yes, everybody wants saifish:extras, but nobody wants to do the work 16:00:54 but as long as there are no users 16:01:14 might as well point people directly to my repo 16:01:36 tbr: that sums it up well IMHO :) 16:01:39 #info if you want to help with Chum and make it happen, ping tbr for more info 16:01:46 thanks all for joining this meeting! 16:01:51 #endmeeting