14:30:09 <cybette> #startmeeting SailfishOS, open source, collaboration: 26-Nov @ 14:30 UTC
14:30:09 <merbot`> Meeting started Thu Nov 26 14:30:09 2015 UTC.  The chair is cybette. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Meetings.
14:30:09 <merbot`> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
14:30:21 <cybette> #info Welcome to another week of SailfishOS OSS and collaboration meeting
14:30:27 <cybette> #info Meeting info and agenda: http://lists.sailfishos.org/pipermail/devel/2015-November/006760.html
14:30:38 <cybette> I'm the meeting chair for today and will be keeping time and order. Please behave and show mutual respect, and let's have a productive discussion!
14:30:43 <cybette> #topic Brief introductions (5 min), prefix your information with #info
14:30:45 <Stskeeps> #info Carsten Munk, Jolla CTO, R&D, for a few days still
14:30:50 <Tofe> #info Christophe Chapuis, community member
14:30:55 <situ> #info Siteshwar, community
14:30:58 <locusf> #info Aleksi Suomalainen, community
14:31:02 <kimmoli> #info Kimmo Lindholm, community
14:31:03 <cybette> #info Carol Chen, community member, hatless meeting chair today
14:31:10 <ghosalmartin> #info Martin Ghosal, community
14:31:11 <stephg> #info Steph Gosling, community
14:31:13 <sunweave1> #info Mike Gabriel, Debian developer and software developer, new Jolla owner..., community
14:31:16 <vgrade> #info vgrade, community
14:31:20 <mattaustin> #info Matt Austin, community
14:32:20 <cybette> if you're just joining, please intro yourself with #info
14:32:40 <gcobb> #info Graham Cobb, community
14:32:40 <lainwir3d> #info Richard Rondu, community & app developer
14:32:56 <a1kar> #info Amilcar Santos, app developer
14:33:02 <pketo> #info Pami Ketolainen, backend developer @ Jolla
14:33:04 <mikelima> #info Luciano Montanaro, community, hobby developer
14:33:16 <DylanVanAssche> #info Dylan Van Assche, community, hobby developer
14:34:13 <cybette> one more minute for intros (prefix with #info)
14:35:17 <cybette> ok let's get on with the topics
14:35:37 <cybette> #topic Explore options to decentralize Jolla, SailfishOS and Mer essential infrastructure - bobsummerwill (15 min)
14:35:43 <cybette> #info - repositories, web-sites, automated build infrastructure, together.jolla.com, etc. Having any single individual or company solely responsible for such foundational infrastructure is a risk in any situation, let alone in the current situation.
14:35:49 <cybette> #info Backups are always good. Simplest case we would look to "copy". Better would be an ongoing multi-site "mirror". Best would be something truly decentralized based on IPFS as a long-term aim.
14:36:08 <Stskeeps> so, did M-bobsummerwill manage to make it here? :)
14:36:21 <cybette> bobsummerwill is not here, we can still discuss this in general
14:36:28 <Tofe> We can also quite his mail: "How can we de-risk and decentralize essential infrastructure for Sailfish and Jolla?   How can the community help keep Sailfish alive whatever happens to Jolla Inc?"
14:36:35 <Stskeeps> else i'll just summarize in general the current situation, overlapping a bit into next topic
14:36:45 <cybette> Stskeeps: please do
14:37:04 <iekku> o/
14:37:09 <Stskeeps> so for everyone on the same page, we published https://blog.jolla.com/open-letter-jolla-community/ and https://cdn.jolla.com/wp-content/uploads/bsk-pdf-manager/Jolla_press_release_20112015_FINAL_62.pdf since last
14:38:02 <Stskeeps> naturally the dust has now settled a bit down and we have as we always have, reorganised ourselves in the software organisation under our glorious software lead veskuh, with functioning sdk, ui team, hw team, testing team and release guys
14:38:19 <Stskeeps> not as many people as we used to be, but hey :)
14:38:55 <cybette> #info since last meeting, Jolla has published a press release and blog post
14:39:03 <cybette> #link https://cdn.jolla.com/wp-content/uploads/bsk-pdf-manager/Jolla_press_release_20112015_FINAL_62.pdf
14:39:08 <cybette> #link https://blog.jolla.com/open-letter-jolla-community/
14:39:09 <Stskeeps> we're spending this time taking a look at our infrastructure usage, documenting things in the software asset (sailfishos), cleaning up a few things, talking and helping talking to investors and potential investors and figuring out what we really do
14:39:28 <Stskeeps> we have an upcoming release still we're seeing what we can do about
14:40:07 <Stskeeps> we've also moved to a new location in helsinki (planned for a while) that some of you have helped actually moving, so, send those GPL compliance requests to the new address
14:40:18 <Stskeeps> so, the lights are still very much on in Jolla Oy.
14:40:35 <Stskeeps> how long remains to be seen, but for now, we're good
14:40:36 <sunweaver> Good to hear!!! Thanks for keeping the heads up!!!
14:40:39 <stephg> my understanding is that there are two infras here: the mer one inc the public OBS and a jolla internal one:- I presume you're talking about the latter? (infra wise)
14:40:49 <Stskeeps> jolla internal one, but merproject could need donations too
14:40:52 <Stskeeps> talk to lbt for that
14:41:13 <stephg> #link http://merproject.org/donations.html
14:41:39 <vgrade> #link https://www.mail-archive.com/mer-general@lists.merproject.org/msg01485.html
14:42:03 <cybette> #info Jolla has reorganized its software organization with functioning SDK/UI/HW/testing/release teams, taking a look at infra usage, documenting software assets, etc.
14:42:14 <Tofe> are there, currently, things that could be mirrored ? TJC maybe ?
14:42:44 <Stskeeps> mmm, that one is challenging since it's a dynamic website
14:42:48 <Stskeeps> also
14:43:05 <Stskeeps> with our release cycle going out, we've pushed stuff to our community cbeta people as well, to help them test a bit deeper than usual
14:43:10 <Stskeeps> so, machine is even running
14:43:14 <Stskeeps> much thanks to them
14:44:52 <Stskeeps> also, as an additional note, since you guys have asked - many of you have backed the tablet and through that the sailfishos 2.0 development process, to make it fit to tablets
14:45:20 <Stskeeps> and i'd like to emphasise that this same code is available for you, in non-commercial means, to work together with the sailfishos porters to put it on existing android tablets
14:45:38 <cybette> #info Lights are still on in Jolla Oy even with a reduced crew, with help from community cbeta members in testing, community members lending a hand in the Helsinki move etc.
14:45:46 <Stskeeps> it's all one codeline, so same one that people use to make let's say, nexus 5 port
14:46:56 <Tofe> (still for TJC) I guess even a snapshot would reassure people; but mainly I wonder if that would cause IP issues of some sort
14:46:57 <Stskeeps> but getting back on topic.. we're still getting visibility in the company about what we can do; so i don't have much to propose right now
14:47:13 <Stskeeps> as it also requires effort from our part
14:47:36 <stephg> Stskeeps: presumably many of the potential actions are dependent on legal consultation and obviously ongoing stuff with investors...
14:47:39 <Stskeeps> stephg: yup
14:47:53 <Stskeeps> but naturally we're taking a look at worst case scenario too
14:48:26 <stephg> so with a worst-case in mind should we, the community be doing stuff already, I suspect we already are, if so, what etc.
14:48:26 <Stskeeps> in the end most of it will need a factual release to go out
14:48:30 <cybette> 2 more min (we can continue some of this in next topic as well)
14:48:39 <Stskeeps> to switch over server locations or whichever
14:49:49 <sunweaver> so what services are there that Jolla could hand over / delegate to community people?
14:50:36 <Stskeeps> sunweaver: it's a bit unclear just yet what exactly is problematic, but we could theoretically take for example the online checkers (the ones your phone connects to to verify if it's really online), or perhaps, release mirroring, etc
14:51:19 <Stskeeps> perhaps better for next week's meeting with a little more visibility
14:51:30 <Stskeeps> dust has settled but it's still foggy :)
14:51:33 <cybette> #info About what services Jolla can handover to community, it is a bit unclear right now. Perhaps online checkers, release mirroring etc.
14:51:38 <stephg> +1 if you're also documenting interally atm
14:51:49 <Tofe> Yes, it looks like it's a bit early to ask
14:51:55 <cybette> #info Topic might be better for next week's meeting with more visibility
14:51:57 <Stskeeps> and i'm the wrong person to ask personally
14:52:01 <kimmoli> harbour QA?
14:52:05 <cybette> ok, with that, let's move on to next topic
14:52:10 <sunweaver> Making an OS survive requires the code to be publicly structured, I fear.
14:52:10 <pketo> Tofe: re TJC mirroring/snapshot, from the top of my head I would say that is probably very difficult to do
14:52:12 <M4rtinK> I will note there are existing checkers (Fedora one, etc.)
14:52:21 <cybette> #topic Status report from Jolla the company - SfietKonstantinW (30 min - 10 min for state, 20 for QA)
14:52:27 <sunweaver> And requires the packages being hosted decentralized.
14:52:27 <cybette> #info Since Jolla is having some troubles recently, and that the light has not yet been casted on all the details, I would like to have a report from sailors about the state of the company.
14:52:31 <M4rtinK> also configurable checker path might help
14:52:35 <cybette> #info Maybe not the full picture, but at least to inform us how is the real state of the company (good ? bad ? waiting for something to happen ? etc)
14:52:37 <Stskeeps> M4rtinK: it is, connman.conf
14:52:50 <Stskeeps> i think
14:52:59 <cybette> #info Status update has been shared by Stskeeps in previous topic, please see meeting minutes/logs
14:53:04 <M4rtinK> Stskeeps: that should probably be enough
14:53:10 <Stskeeps> oh, and, it kinda varies, but we actually sell phones still!
14:53:20 <Stskeeps> M4rtinK: but now for average joe consumer :)
14:53:26 <Stskeeps> now=not
14:53:43 <Stskeeps> we have a very good adoption rate in people upgrading, so we're likely to get most people sorted out
14:53:52 <sunweaver> I will advertise Jolla smartphones whereever I can...
14:54:01 <Stskeeps> #link http://shop.jolla.com/eu_en/cat-jolla.html
14:54:05 <Stskeeps> it goes in and out of stock occasionally
14:54:06 <M4rtinK> an app can be made worst case to set it :)
14:54:23 <cybette> SfietKonstantinW: do you have something additional to ask/add to this topic?
14:54:35 <sunweaver> Can the tabled be pre-ordered still/again?
14:54:36 <cybette> or is he around..
14:54:47 <Stskeeps> sunweaver: sadly no, as we haven't also delivered those who already pre-ordered
14:54:59 <sunweaver> Ok....
14:55:20 <Stskeeps> there's a bit less sailors here today but that's because our irc client box is moving office too :)
14:55:33 <Tofe> :p
14:55:36 <Stskeeps> and i can't represent jolla in the next meeting, personally, so we didn't postpone
14:55:42 <Coolgeek> can you still do some repair ?
14:55:49 <Stskeeps> Coolgeek: i don't have visibility on our care side
14:55:51 <Stskeeps> sorry
14:56:08 <Coolgeek> no pb
14:56:13 <Stskeeps> i can offer reflashings locally in warsaw, poland, though ;)
14:56:26 <iekku> :D
14:56:36 <Stskeeps> or perhaps at fosdem if needed
14:56:54 <Stskeeps> which is another great place you all should go; http://fosdem.org
14:57:00 <cybette> #info Jolla phones are still on sale, in and out of stock occasionally. Jolla tablets cannot be pre-ordered, as they haven't delivered earlier pre-orders.
14:57:01 <Stskeeps> and submit talks, if you have something to talk about
14:57:34 <sunweaver> Is there a donation link for Jolla?
14:57:45 <Stskeeps> sunweaver: it's kinda hard for a finnish company to receive donations
14:57:59 <Stskeeps> which is why indiegogo campaign has been to our hong kong office
14:58:07 <Stskeeps> (as that's, technically, a donation, with perks)
14:58:13 <sunweaver> well, I rather mean: a shop item that costs some money with nothing to be delivered.
14:58:17 <Stskeeps> donation is the wrong view
14:58:25 <Stskeeps> not at the moment
14:58:30 <M4rtinK> that reminds me - devconf (www.defconf.cz) takes place week after FOSDEM & the same applies :)
14:58:32 <sunweaver> maybe that's an option.
14:58:47 <Stskeeps> we sadly need a little more amount of money than donations could bring in :/
14:58:56 <iekku> Stskeeps, deadline for talks has gone already.
14:58:57 <sunweaver> I understand.
14:58:57 <M4rtinK> www.devconf.cz is correct, sorry
14:58:59 <cybette> #info Stskeeps recommends FOSDEM event for all, where he can offer reflashing of Jolla devices
14:59:00 <Stskeeps> iekku: nop, not devrooms
14:59:04 <locusf> yep
14:59:19 <sunweaver> My impression is that many people in the FLOSS realm have not noticed the Sailfish OS, yet.
14:59:20 <situ> iekku: I think you can still submit lightning talks.
14:59:37 <cybette> #info There is no donation link for Jolla as it is problematic for a Finnish company to receive donations
14:59:47 <Stskeeps> sunweaver: also possibly due to us having closed UX, which turns off some, but many have a jolla
14:59:53 <Stskeeps> or are happy enough about Android
14:59:53 <iekku> Stskeeps, it says 9th of october on their call for participation
15:00:04 <Stskeeps> iekku: yes - but the individual developer rooms are open still :)
15:00:09 <Stskeeps> embedded devroom sometime in december
15:00:21 <locusf> yep phdeswer knows about that
15:00:26 <sunweaver> is there any reason for keeping the UX closed (still)?
15:00:35 <locusf> I do have one talk pending but I probably have to cancel it
15:00:43 <iekku> Stskeeps, ah ok
15:00:44 <Stskeeps> sunweaver: well, we spoke about that at least meeting, it's now at investor/board level to discus
15:00:44 <a1kar> can we "flattr" Jolla apps ?? It could be another way to donate...
15:00:56 <Stskeeps> a1kar: i think that'd fall to same category
15:00:57 <sunweaver> +Stskeeps: ack.
15:01:08 <Stskeeps> sunweaver: it's a bit difficult to talk about open sourcing when you're in debt restructuring
15:01:14 <cybette> #info M4rtinK mentions DevConf event, occurring a week after FOSDEM
15:01:15 <sunweaver> You could get more devs in when code would be publicly available.
15:01:18 <cybette> #link https://fosdem.org/2016/
15:01:21 <Stskeeps> yeah, that's understood
15:01:23 <cybette> #link http://www.devconf.cz/
15:01:39 <sunweaver> +Stskeeps: I get that.
15:02:00 <Stskeeps> so, yeah, one week later after massively bad news, we're still here and lights are still on
15:02:05 <Stskeeps> any questions?
15:02:05 <Stskeeps> :P
15:02:16 <kimmoli> what is the new address?
15:02:27 <mikelima> Stskeeps: you understand, what about the shareholders?
15:03:00 * sunweaver would really love to pre-order a tablet... ;-)
15:03:02 <Stskeeps> kimmoli: in kamppi area in helsinki, i don't recall the exact address
15:03:16 <Stskeeps> mikelima: well, i can't know the state of shareholder or board minds at any point in time :)
15:03:29 <SfietKonstantinW> damn, I missed the meeting
15:03:39 <Stskeeps> mikelima: when there's debt restructuring there's usually a creditor's board and an administrator who 'helps' you making the 'right' decisions..
15:03:54 <Stskeeps> (to get the debts paid, etc)
15:04:03 <cybette> I think it's Fredrikinkatu 42 (new address for Jolla Helsinki office)
15:04:13 <mikelima> Stskeeps: of course, it is a bad time discussing this *now*...
15:04:15 <cybette> let me info that..
15:04:33 <Stskeeps> mikelima: it was never supposed to go in this direction, and trust me, it has been a loooong discussion topic :)
15:05:04 <cybette> #info New address for Jolla Helsinki office is Fredrikinkatu 42, 00100 Helsinki
15:05:05 <M4rtinK> btw, what about selling some swag for slightly inflated prices ? ;-)
15:05:14 <Stskeeps> M4rtinK: we're quite low on swag, sadly
15:05:26 <Coolgeek> what about Intex, does the partnership still exist ?
15:05:29 <cybette> SfietKonstantinW: do you have more questions for this topic? We're in the Q&A part now.
15:05:38 <Stskeeps> Coolgeek: i can't comment that, sorry, you have customer confidentiality..
15:05:42 <Coolgeek> ok
15:06:01 <Stskeeps> (and yes, we all love the '42' in the office location name)
15:06:06 <stephg> heh
15:06:11 <sunweaver> ;-)
15:06:15 <M-bobsummerwill> Hello everyone!
15:06:24 <Stskeeps> and i personally love it too, since it's much closer to the hotel i usually stay at :p
15:06:32 <kimmoli> if someone is interested about legislation, http://www.finlex.fi/en/laki/kaannokset/1993/19930047
15:07:32 <cybette> M-bobsummerwill: hi :) we already covered your topic, hope you can find good info in the logs
15:07:35 <Stskeeps> http://www.expat-finland.com/pdf/legal_framework_for_doing_business_in_finland.pdf is an interesting if you want to know the challenges of doing busienss in finland
15:08:15 <Stskeeps> section 10 on insolvency and corporate reorganisation
15:08:30 <SfietKonstantinW> cybette: my questions got already answered I guess
15:08:42 <SfietKonstantinW> sadly, no news from "the financial part"
15:08:55 <SfietKonstantinW> but I guess transpacency can't go up to that level
15:08:59 <Stskeeps> as you can also understand that investor discussions are quite sensitive
15:09:12 <M4rtinK> closer to Harbor too ;-)
15:09:21 <cybette> SfietKonstantinW: yes those are more sensitive questions
15:09:23 <Stskeeps> so we're doing much more than it seems, not just sit around and read reddit
15:09:24 <Stskeeps> :P
15:09:24 <SfietKonstantinW> Stskeeps: indeed
15:09:40 <mikelima> uh... Is the harbour still functioning? I may try to update some of my apps, not that it will help
15:09:58 <Stskeeps> i'm not sure
15:10:03 <Stskeeps> ask on mailing list?
15:10:06 <cybette> 10 more min for this topic (Q&A about current status in Jolla)
15:10:16 <SfietKonstantinW> a bit sad that we are clueless about what's going on
15:10:21 <Tofe> Can we know when there'll be next news? Or do you even know?
15:10:37 <Stskeeps> Tofe: i know as little as you do, the right puzzle pieces can fall into place whenever
15:10:41 <iekku> SfietKonstantinW, i think sailors have same feeling.
15:10:56 <Stskeeps> and of course we're all hoping for the best :)
15:11:05 <Tofe> yup
15:11:43 <stephg> Stskeeps: I guess with an administrator therer is a good chance for the wrong peices too
15:11:46 <SfietKonstantinW> do you know how much time we need to wait
15:11:47 <SfietKonstantinW> ?
15:11:47 <M4rtinK> btw, people right now seem to be willing to help
15:11:51 <SfietKonstantinW> approximatively ?
15:11:55 <stephg> but about that there is nothing anyone can do
15:11:56 <Stskeeps> SfietKonstantinW: i don't know
15:12:04 <SfietKonstantinW> broad estimate ?
15:12:08 <SfietKonstantinW> weeks, months ?
15:12:12 <SfietKonstantinW> (years ?)
15:12:20 <Stskeeps> SfietKonstantinW: it's probably best to keep weekly meetings for now
15:12:22 <iekku> SfietKonstantinW, wait for what?
15:12:31 <Stskeeps> there's a .. lot that can change, for worse, or for good, at any point
15:12:31 <M4rtinK> as for example the office move help shows
15:12:36 <Stskeeps> M4rtinK: yep
15:12:39 <Tofe> They talked about the december financial round in the blog, so it's one month at most, I'd say
15:12:50 <SfietKonstantinW> ok
15:12:59 <coderus> #info hello i missed meeting too :D
15:13:01 <M4rtinK> so it might be good to give people something they can help with
15:13:15 <M4rtinK> to keep the dynamic
15:13:27 <M4rtinK> resource permitting of course
15:13:37 <Stskeeps> M4rtinK: i'll pass that on, right now we just need visibility on what is possible and what's not
15:13:44 <coderus> Any news on tablets delivery?
15:14:03 <Stskeeps> coderus: i don't have any news, there's a post by saarnio at https://blog.jolla.com/open-letter-jolla-community/
15:14:05 <M4rtinK> like helping translate, some early alpha testing builds
15:14:18 <Stskeeps> M4rtinK: nod
15:14:38 <rweickelt> When can we expect paid apps in harbour? What are the hindrances? Why has this been left open for so long?
15:14:38 <Stskeeps> M4rtinK: we were very close to deploying our solution for this, so we need visibility on that
15:14:50 <Stskeeps> rweickelt: i think that's quite uncertain given the company situation
15:14:53 <M4rtinK> even just "help us bz writing guides/howtos/guides/docs"
15:14:56 <cybette> M4rtinK: I think sailors (and recent ex-sailors) are aware of community's desire to help and we'll do our best to share such info when we have them
15:15:17 <coderus> Stskeeps: okay, just need to wait next year, i thin :D
15:15:17 <M4rtinK> definitely
15:15:58 <kimmoli> i just hope we do not need to arrange blankets and soup
15:16:02 <cybette> 5 more min
15:16:04 <Stskeeps> rweickelt: i know this isn't a very satisfactory answer, but we're in survial mode at this point
15:16:04 <M4rtinK> just noting it wil e a waste to just keep people waiting until the big things are decided :)
15:16:14 * sunweaver would volunteer with finding bugs / providing patches.
15:16:26 <Stskeeps> contributing to the mer side is always useful, as well
15:16:30 <Stskeeps> as that keeps the base system going
15:16:56 <SfietKonstantinW> about mer and base system
15:16:57 <M4rtinK> as we can't really directly influence when these decisions happen ourselves
15:17:00 <SfietKonstantinW> oh I will ask this on #mer
15:17:02 <sunweaver> Is there a chart that shows what's part of Mer, what is part of Sailfish OS and what is part of Jolla UX code?
15:17:09 <cybette> #info Community is more than willing to help, and it would be great to keep these meetings on a weekly basis so we can get updated on what we can do
15:17:11 <Stskeeps> sunweaver: https://sailfishos.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Sailfish_Architecture_v0.5.1.png
15:17:22 <sunweaver> +Stskeeps: thx
15:17:22 <targon> About selling overpriced swag: My company donated to doctor helicopter in lapland (Aslak). Paid 350€ for 2 reflective vests and certuificat in frame. 350€x10 000 would make 3,5 m€ - costs.
15:17:40 <Stskeeps> targon: not bad
15:18:10 <sunweaver> I'd be interested in getting Xwayland run on Jolla, btw.
15:18:18 <vgrade> Stskeeps: how much of the internal processes are open now, thinking https://github.com/bayoteers
15:18:19 <Stskeeps> sunweaver: i think javispedro already tried this
15:18:19 <sunweaver> S-OS, I mean.
15:18:32 <sunweaver> ak, will contact him.
15:18:37 <Stskeeps> vgrade: not sure, i haven't dared to dive into the bugzilla code we're running
15:19:07 <Stskeeps> vgrade: but mer and jolla bugzilla shares a lot
15:19:16 <vgrade> possibiilty there for community have a poke around
15:19:44 <Stskeeps> well, here's a thought, if you guys have ideas for swag, or graphics, or whichever, naturally that's welcome
15:19:45 <sunweaver> +Stskeeps: on that diagram (https://sailfishos.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Sailfish_Architecture_v0.5.1.png) I cannot find "Mer".
15:19:51 <Stskeeps> sunweaver: there's a little blue logo
15:19:52 <Stskeeps> that's mer
15:20:02 <Stskeeps> practically equal to sailfish os
15:20:12 <Stskeeps> i think there was just a bit of inkscape accident
15:20:16 <Stskeeps> err, sailfishos core
15:20:21 <Tofe> Stskeeps: is the bugzilla of Mer currently in sync with the bugs reported to Jolla
15:20:29 <cybette> #topic General discussions - everyone (10 min)
15:20:34 <cybette> carry on...
15:20:50 <Stskeeps> Tofe: for anything related to mer sw we enforce that it should happen in mer bz at integration level
15:21:22 <merlin1991> since we're back in a general topic, I think we have enough space on maemo.org for a potential release mirror
15:21:56 <sunweaver> A mirror httpredir service would be useful, I guess.
15:22:00 <sunweaver> Like http.debian.net
15:22:02 <Stskeeps> merlin1991: the complicated part becomes about the hw adaptation bits
15:22:10 <Stskeeps> main OS is 'easy'
15:22:11 <sunweaver> hw adaptation bits?
15:22:15 <Stskeeps> yeah
15:22:19 <merlin1991> Stskeeps: I know licensing is fun ...
15:22:19 <Stskeeps> you know, closed blob drivers etc
15:22:29 <coderus> yeah, how to mirror repos requires credentials auth?
15:22:41 <sunweaver> so there are repos that require authentication?
15:22:51 <Stskeeps> perhaps we should just put it all out on a torrent with a password we give out in case of doomsday
15:22:54 <Stskeeps> sunweaver: yeah
15:23:01 <SfietKonstantinW> sounds god
15:23:02 <Stskeeps> sunweaver: so jolla1 repos are only available to jolla1
15:23:02 <SfietKonstantinW> good
15:23:09 <sunweaver> aren't the non-free packages in a separate repo?
15:23:14 <Stskeeps> sunweaver: that's basically it
15:23:14 <SfietKonstantinW> no hw adaptation repo, but some packages to be installed in a torrent
15:23:46 <cybette> #info There may be enough space on maemo.org for a potential release mirror for Sailfish OS, however the HW adaptation bits will be problematic
15:24:17 <merlin1991> are there updates in the hw adaption repo, or can a device update to latest sf after a factory reset with just the non hw repos?
15:24:20 <Stskeeps> tld;r we don't want maemo.org to get sued by somebody (not us)
15:24:28 <Stskeeps> merlin1991: i think it really can't that easily
15:24:30 <Stskeeps> too much tied in
15:24:33 <merlin1991> dang
15:24:49 <Stskeeps> other options include stuff like ipfs
15:25:22 <Tofe> Stskeeps: you like that one, don't you :)
15:25:27 <Stskeeps> Tofe: oh you have no idea :)
15:25:27 <sunweaver> it's not about storage, I guess, but about reachability, right?
15:25:29 <M-bobsummerwill> cybette: yes thanks!  Just finished catching up
15:25:31 <Stskeeps> yeah
15:26:02 <cybette> M-bobsummerwill: great :) if you have further questions, ask now!
15:26:11 <Stskeeps> well, we'll investigate what we can do
15:26:13 <M-bobsummerwill> Stskeeps:  IPFS +1
15:26:13 <sunweaver> so you need designated partners that mirror your site but don't make stuff public?
15:26:31 <Stskeeps> sunweaver: it's complex due to the distribution limitations on those things
15:26:33 <M4rtinK> escrow ?
15:26:34 <sunweaver> and hook the mirrors into auth infrastructure provided by Jolla?
15:26:47 <M-bobsummerwill> \
15:27:26 <cybette> 3 more min for topic
15:27:39 <sunweaver> and if people provide VMs + Storage to Jolla?
15:27:46 <Stskeeps> sunweaver: the problem is that in worse case scenario, there's no jolla :)
15:27:49 <sunweaver> so Jolla stays in charge?
15:27:51 <Stskeeps> as in legal entity
15:28:09 <sunweaver> What will happen to code not yet opensourced?
15:28:21 <M-bobsummerwill> You could encrypt those parts and push them out to IPFS while keeping the key private?
15:28:40 <Stskeeps> sunweaver: it'll be treated as an asset in an bankruptcy situation
15:28:42 <M4rtinK> I think a question should be asked - how to do a CSSU ?
15:28:52 <M4rtinK> worst case
15:28:57 <Stskeeps> M4rtinK: that's probably somewhat easy, ssu.ini adjustments
15:29:05 <M4rtinK> or is that impossble ?
15:29:12 <Stskeeps> but you may need a full repo copy (i'm not sure)
15:29:19 <Stskeeps> to resolve dependencies
15:29:19 <sunweaver> +Stskeeps: okay...
15:29:26 <M4rtinK> in case Jolla goes down
15:29:44 <M4rtinK> eq. worst case scenario
15:30:04 <cybette> great discussions, and we should keep this going regularly, which brings us to the next topic
15:30:04 <Stskeeps> for the closed source bits you can't do any 'tricks' like put it in IPFS before and hand out the password at last day of operation, that may be seen as trying to screw over debtors
15:30:05 <M-bobsummerwill> M4rtinK:  Backup!
15:30:08 <cybette> #topic Wrap up and next meeting (10 min)
15:30:08 <Stskeeps> as in, source
15:30:42 <Tofe> Stskeeps: we could buy that asset afterhand for 1$ :p
15:31:00 <Stskeeps> that's also a solution (and no, don't start planning how to bankrupt us..)
15:31:02 <coderus> just one Q. it's unclear sutuations with tablet deliveries. but what about Lastu Case i backed? Can it be delivered?
15:31:06 <merlin1991> don't remember anymore, but is a repo needed to get usb networking/dev mode up? or is that harmattan I'm thinking about
15:31:07 <M-bobsummerwill> Stskeeps:   Fingers crossed for approval of investor open-sourcing before that then!
15:31:08 <Stskeeps> coderus: that i don't know
15:31:17 <Stskeeps> coderus: (personally)
15:31:27 <Stskeeps> you can try to ask care, which is still active, afaik
15:31:45 <coderus> just regular jolla-care@?
15:31:48 <cybette> some of you might know this already, iekku and I are no longer in the Jolla boat. we are still part of the community like all of you and happy to be chairing these meetings. However, others are welcome to do this as well.
15:31:53 <coderus> means care@jolla?
15:31:56 <M4rtinK> IMHO hw adaptation bits are less critical if open sourcing can go through
15:32:12 <cybette> coderus: https://jolla.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/requests/new
15:32:17 <w00taK> w00t
15:32:18 <Stskeeps> M4rtinK: it's quite critical for the average user
15:32:22 <M4rtinK> as community can worst case continue developing on hadk devices
15:32:25 <coderus> ah zendesk, thx cybette!
15:32:29 <M-bobsummerwill> Thanks, cybette!   Happy fishing from your lifeboat.
15:32:38 <M4rtinK> Stskeeps: defnitely
15:32:41 <Stskeeps> but yeah, for coder community
15:32:46 <sunweaver> If the Jolla UX'ish phone shall survive in the long run, you need to opensource as much of the code as possible.
15:32:50 <cybette> M-bobsummerwill: thanks :)
15:33:16 <sunweaver> and: I get all your issues being around atm.
15:33:17 <Stskeeps> sunweaver: http://merproject.org/meetings/mer-meeting/2015/mer-meeting.2015-11-19-14.30.html , http://merproject.org/meetings/mer-meeting/2015/mer-meeting.2015-11-19-14.30.txt
15:33:18 <cybette> let's now confirm time for next meeting so we can keep this discussions going
15:33:25 <Stskeeps> cybette: same time next week?
15:33:43 <kimmoli> +1 from here
15:33:48 <Stskeeps> i'm not sure who's representing jolla at this point, but let's try to get somebody out
15:33:56 <cybette> Thurs 3/12 @ 14:30 UTC, any objections?
15:34:03 * sunweaver won't be available then, but in the following Thursdays (in a 2-weeks on-and-off rhythm).
15:34:13 <cybette> (unfortunate timing for M-bobsummerwill as usual I suppose)
15:34:19 <M-bobsummerwill> >>IMHO hw adaptation bits are less critical if open sourcing can go through
15:34:20 * sunweaver will support you guys whereever possible.
15:34:33 <M-bobsummerwill> Yeah - but that's unfixable, so go for it.
15:34:37 <sunweaver> Please consider already coming to next (far-way) DebConf.
15:34:48 <sunweaver> (or I may also volunteer in giving a talk there).
15:34:50 <Tofe> cybette: timing seems ok
15:35:06 <DylanVanAssche> +1
15:35:10 <daitheflu> sounds like I missed everything
15:35:25 <M-bobsummerwill> RE:   HW adaption bits meaning the supporting blobs and closed source for the Jolla Phone and Jolla Tablet?
15:35:31 <iekku> i'm not sure if i can join, so i can't chair
15:35:35 <Stskeeps> M-bobsummerwill: nod, but also third party bits
15:35:45 <Stskeeps> alien dalvik, xt9, exchange support
15:35:49 <cybette> any volunteers for chairing the meeting?
15:36:09 <kimmoli> is the tablet exchange open?
15:36:17 <Stskeeps> no
15:36:20 <Stskeeps> cybette: i guess i can
15:36:24 <Stskeeps> since i won't be representing jolla
15:36:34 <cybette> Stskeeps: that's great, thanks!
15:36:39 <M-bobsummerwill> Right, right, so everything currently unreleased but required to put together the Jolla Phone and Jolla Tablet releases from scratch?
15:36:40 <iekku> Stskeeps, thanks!
15:36:51 <Stskeeps> M-bobsummerwill: tld;r yes
15:37:02 <cybette> #info Next meeting Thurs Dec-3 @ 14:30 UTC, Chairperson Stskeeps
15:37:03 <M-bobsummerwill> Happy fishing to you too, iekku!
15:37:10 <cybette> ok 3 mins to wrap up :)
15:37:17 <iekku> M-bobsummerwill, thanks :D
15:37:52 <sunweaver> one more thanks for keeping heads up.
15:38:23 <mattaustin> Thanks everyone
15:38:28 <stephg> +1
15:38:36 <sunweaver> One feedback/suggestions: If delivery of ordered devices gets delayed: try providing as much transperancy and communication on the reasons behind it.
15:38:43 <M-bobsummerwill> Thanks for the info, everybody!   I've updated my newly arrived Jolla Phone to 2.0 and will be developing on it today :-)
15:39:04 <cybette> M-bobsummerwill: have fun with it!
15:39:23 <sunweaver> when waiting for my device, the communication could have been more transparent. People who order a Jolla atm will wait weeks, if they have to. But it's good to let them know.
15:39:33 <iekku> thanks everyone!
15:40:02 <cybette> ok thanks everyone for the great meeting today. see you next week!
15:40:09 <cybette> #endmeeting