09:00:31 <Jaymzz> #startmeeting Sailfish OS, Open Source, Collaboration 9th of January 2017
09:00:31 <merbot> Meeting started Mon Jan  9 09:00:31 2017 UTC.  The chair is Jaymzz. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Meetings.
09:00:31 <merbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
09:00:42 <Jaymzz> #info meeting information and agenda can be found here: https://lists.sailfishos.org/pipermail/devel/2017-January/007648.html
09:00:50 <Jaymzz> I am the meeting's chairperson today and will be doing my best to keep time and order. Please behave, be gentle and show due respect.
09:00:59 <Jaymzz> #topic Brief introduction (5 minutes) . Please prefix your name/handle with # info
09:01:16 <Jaymzz> #info James Noori, Community Manager, Jolla
09:01:43 <DylanVanAssche> #info Dylan Van Assche, developer
09:01:54 <ljo_> #info Leif-Jöran Olsson, community porter
09:01:56 <Jaymzz> seems like bot did not register the topic, but it will be okay in minutes later on
09:01:59 <Venty> #info Martin Ebnoether, Jolla/SailfishOS Fanboy
09:02:04 <otsaloma> #info Osmo Salomaa, app developer
09:02:05 <sledges> #info Simonas Leleiva, hw'n'l10n@jolla
09:02:46 <occirol> #info occirol, SailfishOS supporter
09:02:47 <M4rtinK> #info Martin Kolman, community & modRana developer
09:02:56 <pketo> #info Pami Ketolainen, backend developer @ Jolla
09:03:34 <r0kk3rz> o/
09:03:49 <abranson_> #info Andrew Branson, dev @ Jolla
09:04:02 <Aldrog> #info Andrew Penkrat, app developer
09:04:05 <r0kk3rz> #info Lewis Rockliffe, community
09:04:11 <RodSeq> #info Rodolphe Sequeira, community
09:05:10 <Sage__> #info Marko Saukko, Sailor @ Jolla
09:05:21 <oniongarlic> #info Kaj-Michael Lang, app developer
09:05:41 <veskuh> #info Vesa-Matti Hartikainen, Program manager at Jolla
09:05:48 <dcaliste> #info Damien Caliste, community
09:06:20 <Jaymzz> Thanks all, moving on ->
09:06:24 <Jaymzz> #topic Google Play Services (10 min, asked by RodSeq)
09:06:33 <Jaymzz> #info  The Gplay services app is not well integrated in the OS yet. Would it be possible to have a stable "frozen" Gplay services app on the Jolla Store to be downloaded like other Android apps ? There is already a great solution developped on OpenRepos (https://openrepos.net/content/coderus/opengapps-pico-installer#comment-16413) that would really help simplifying the Saiflish user experience for basic users while to my view granting all the necessary
09:06:33 <Jaymzz> Gplay services permissions.
09:07:55 <Jaymzz> RodSeq: the stage is yours :)
09:08:08 <RodSeq> Thanks, Hi all !
09:08:44 <RodSeq> think the question is well resumed in my post in TJC
09:09:11 <Sage__> link to the post?
09:09:44 <r0kk3rz> well the aqua fish came with gplay stuff out of the box, so perhaps its something the carriers can do if they choose
09:09:50 <r0kk3rz> s/carriers/oems
09:11:18 <Jaymzz> RodSeq: Do you have a link to the TJC post? Time is ticking :)
09:11:33 <RodSeq> yes
09:12:09 <DylanVanAssche> maybe because Intex has permission from Google to include it in their Android devices and they used that to include it in the Aqua Fish? As far as I know, Jolla doesn't have this permission? Just an idea...
09:12:15 <RodSeq> https://together.jolla.com/question/54157/sailfishos-open-source-collaboration-meeting-planning/?answer=152943#post-id-152943
09:12:31 <Jaymzz> #link https://together.jolla.com/question/54157/sailfishos-open-source-collaboration-meeting-planning/?answer=152943#post-id-152943
09:12:44 <RodSeq> on the Intex phone, the Gplay services are present on Aptoide
09:13:17 <RodSeq> if you install it, you don't have any icon in the App Menu like for other Android apps
09:13:57 <DylanVanAssche> Is the Aptoide store enabled with the Jolla repo or with an Intex repo? In the Jolla 1 the Aptoide store has a repo 'jolla'
09:14:23 <RodSeq> while if you install the pico-installer developped by coderus, then you have Google play installed like any other standard app
09:14:24 * kimmoli is late
09:15:04 <r0kk3rz> RodSeq: on aquafish you can just generate an app icon, i assume its deliberately hidden for a reason
09:15:17 <RodSeq> @DylanVanAssche Jolla repo
09:16:33 <DylanVanAssche> Then Jolla should explain this why since they are maintaining these repos.
09:17:30 <Jaymzz> I will give this topic another 5 minutes since it isn't concluded yet. Sage or Veskuh any replies? :)
09:18:23 <veskuh> #info Jolla does not distribute GPlay services, and this is not likely to change.
09:18:40 <Jaymzz> thanks veskuh
09:18:55 <nh1402> Intex might have the license for it in their Android devices, but I don't think there is a loophole to allow them to put it on their Sailfish device tbh
09:19:23 <Jaymzz> RodSeq: Any more questions? :)
09:19:30 <DylanVanAssche> No idea then why the Google Play Services are visible then in the Jolla repo on Intex Aqua Fish
09:19:55 <nh1402> India don't tell to follow copyright law that closely, like China and Pakistan.
09:20:12 <veskuh> Aptoide’s repo names and contents are not somehting we control.
09:20:24 <nh1402> tend*
09:20:25 <RodSeq> @veskuh thanks, so Google is still somehow not allowing to use the Google Play Services like a standard Android app ?
09:20:32 <DylanVanAssche> Thanks for the info @veskuh
09:20:38 <Jaymzz> #info Aptoide’s repo names and contents are not somehting we control.
09:20:52 <nh1402> you need their license to use the Google Play Services
09:20:59 <coderus> afaik by Google policy services can be preinstalled only on Android based  devices. And intex Google services is a dark hack.
09:21:09 <nh1402> indeed
09:21:41 <coderus> afaik Google just never allow manufacturers to include google services on any non-Android based device
09:22:01 <veskuh> RodSeq: Yes, like nh1402 said. You need a license and pass some requirements from them.
09:22:02 <Jaymzz> Alright time is almost up guys
09:22:17 <Jaymzz> We should move on in a few moments
09:22:22 <nh1402> yes
09:22:39 <RodSeq> @coderus @veskuh even installed post-prodution ?
09:23:02 <Jaymzz> RodSeq: hope you got your answer, otherwise continue in general discussion, we can't stay on this topic any longer
09:23:16 <Jaymzz> Will move on after the last question is answered
09:23:39 <RodSeq> @Jaymzz thanks, my question has been answered 95%, thanks !
09:23:55 <nh1402> well Google Play services isn't an app to begin with, it's a library thats packaged as an apk
09:24:05 <Jaymzz> OK than the rest can be discussed in general discussion towards the end. Moving on
09:24:12 <Jaymzz> #topic Promotion of polished Sailfish Ports on Sailfishos.org (15 min, asked by r0kk3rz )
09:24:19 <Jaymzz> #info I have recently been taking a look at the available device ports on the Mer Wiki and for the most part its fairly confusing with a mix of out dated and abandoned device ports and a bunch of well working and maintained ones (i have a list here).It would be great if we could come up with some criteria and put device images and descriptions on Sailfishos.org somewhere so they are more visible to people investigating Sailfish.
09:24:37 <Jaymzz> r0kk3rz: here you go!
09:24:52 <r0kk3rz> hi everyone, so in the last meeting there was a comment about there being too many unfinished ports
09:25:12 <r0kk3rz> which got me thinking that we do a bit of a poor job of promoting the best ones
09:25:50 <r0kk3rz> and on top of that, the only thing on sailfishos.org is the HADK and nothing about available ports
09:26:27 <DylanVanAssche> that's a good idea since people are searching for a way to have a SFOS device which is difficult at the moment so a port is a solution for this.
09:26:29 <kimmoli> (link to the mentioned Mer wiki) https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Adaptations/libhybris
09:26:51 <Jaymzz> #link https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Adaptations/libhybris
09:27:06 <r0kk3rz> i compiled a list of what I think are the worthy ones
09:27:08 <pseudodev> Well, I ported for my device two days ago.... https://forum.xda-developers.com/moto-e-2015/orig-development/rom-sailfish-os-2-0-t3534208
09:27:09 <r0kk3rz> #link https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Adaptations/libhybris_reboot
09:27:25 <r0kk3rz> which is a decent chunk
09:27:27 <M4rtinK> I could see some criteria that if satisfied would promote the port to an official port list
09:27:34 <sledges> r0kk3rz: what was the criteria?
09:27:59 <r0kk3rz> all major features working, available recent image
09:28:15 <piggz_> Glad to see mine on there
09:28:20 <kimmoli> r0kk3rz: that table could contain sfos release
09:28:23 <oniongarlic> a good idea, having sfos port on merwiki is confusing if you don't happen understand the relationship
09:28:23 <r0kk3rz> but now we have things like store and OTA available to be developed, perhaps those should be requirements as well
09:28:30 <M4rtinK> still one would have to take into account that this might change, eq. port getting stuck at old Sailfish OS version/no maintainers, etc.
09:28:41 <r0kk3rz> M4rtinK: OTA helps this greatly
09:29:11 <kimmoli> and i would say up-to-date info in the wiki, yesterday were looking for hammerhead and bacon recent info, and could say it is scattered around the internetz
09:29:27 <pseudodev> r0kk3rz: I just ported with all features working. Can it be official?
09:29:37 <nh1402> speaking of OTA are there any plans to update via a GUI
09:29:46 <r0kk3rz> kimmoli: yeah ive been trying to collect as much information scatterd from around the web onto the wiki for that reason
09:29:47 <pseudodev> *almost all
09:30:20 <kimmoli> and imho we need proper way to host CM base images too
09:30:54 <nh1402> well moving forward wouldn't it be Lineage?
09:31:03 <piggz_> Yes, and an official page for each.... i find xda not the best platform for this
09:31:12 <sledges> I once suggested to add score for ports: points for green boxes, more points for important features, even more for recent sfos version, and OTA
09:31:23 <r0kk3rz> pseudodev: make a nice wiki page for your device :)
09:31:29 <sledges> then even mer wiki could simply be sorted according to those points by default, entering a nice race/competition altogether
09:31:50 <pseudodev> r0kk3rz: how do I do that!?
09:32:09 <kimmoli> sledges throwing a challenge?
09:32:23 <sledges> kimmoli: and we need prizzes :D
09:32:34 <kimmoli> fame and honey?
09:32:34 <tortoisedoc> sledges : + 10+
09:32:37 <sledges> sadly mediawiki is not as scripty
09:32:43 <r0kk3rz> sledges: porter of the year awards
09:32:53 <kimmoli> that is mal already
09:32:54 <r0kk3rz> sledges: every year it goes to mal
09:33:16 <sledges> :D
09:33:22 <mal> :D
09:34:03 <r0kk3rz> anyway, it sounds like we agree on the cleanup
09:34:10 <kimmoli> i think xda is ok'ish for discussion, or tmo, or together, or whatever the porter prefers
09:34:14 <Jaymzz> awesome
09:34:14 <sledges> returning back to adding champion ports to sailfishos.org: nice but extra maint. overhead, and has a risk to go just as stale (even more risky than wiki, as it would be probably 1-2 sailors only maintaining that bridge, as opposed to mer wiki community effort)
09:34:15 <r0kk3rz> what about promotion on sailfishos.org?
09:34:35 <piggz_> Can Jolla get stats from the store regarding downloads per port? This could indicate port popularity
09:35:00 <M4rtinK> shouldn't there be eventually a sailfishos.org wiki ?
09:35:05 <tortoisedoc> piggz_ +100
09:35:10 <sledges> piggz_: let's wait for new hadk+official jolla store opening/rules/announcement, and try that;)
09:35:19 <r0kk3rz> sledges: is it possible to get community accounts for the sfos wiki?
09:35:21 <tortoisedoc> sledges : new?
09:35:22 <M4rtinK> IIRC the idea was to have it editable by external people with change review
09:35:23 <sledges> M4rtinK: there is, you mean open to contributions?
09:35:25 <tortoisedoc> sledges : when? :D
09:35:33 <sledges> tortoisedoc: you know when :DD
09:35:37 <nh1402> I would say whichever Sailfish related website has the most traffic should show off the polished ports
09:35:42 <tortoisedoc> sledges : SOON(tm) :D
09:35:45 <sledges> bingo!
09:35:51 <tortoisedoc> sledges : so perhaps never?
09:36:02 <M4rtinK> sledges: yep - open to (reviewed) contributions
09:36:10 <sledges> lol, many SOONs never been never ;)
09:36:21 <sledges> M4rtinK: separate meeting topic;)
09:36:25 <M4rtinK> sledges: should lower the burden to Jolla-people & make it more likely to be up to date
09:36:30 <sledges> unless veskuh has it on the hitlist:)
09:36:32 <DylanVanAssche> sledges: new HADK with support for 64bit?
09:36:32 <tortoisedoc> sledges: its not very helpful to say "lets wait for this to happen" (which implies it will) and then talk about it possibly never happening :P
09:36:36 <M4rtinK> sledges: well, could host the good-port list :)
09:36:36 <jwalck> sorry for a late entry, I had a meeting at ten that was supposed to be 10 minutes... :) hi! I'll keep up with the next part
09:36:51 <sledges> tortoisedoc: new hadk preview is already available for early testers;)
09:37:06 <nh1402> I suppose this is for Android 6
09:37:07 <tortoisedoc> sledges : aha! early internal testers
09:37:11 <tortoisedoc> sledges : ?
09:37:25 <Jaymzz> SO MUCH TEASING GOING ON!!!! :D
09:37:29 <sledges> M4rtinK: sailfishos.org/hadk is going to merge with sailfishos.org/wiki (hw adaptation article) to tell you that the least
09:37:33 <tortoisedoc> lolz OMG
09:37:34 <Yaniel> I think jolla officially adopting community ports would encourage people a lot
09:37:38 <sledges> tortoisedoc: sailfishos-porters
09:37:50 <tortoisedoc> sledges : got it
09:37:58 <Jaymzz> 2 more minutes guys! Let's wrap up!
09:38:07 <kimmoli> yes or no?
09:38:12 <tortoisedoc> YES! _Å
09:38:17 <tortoisedoc> (whatever the question was)
09:38:20 <tortoisedoc> :D
09:38:28 <M4rtinK> sledges: ok, good to know :)
09:38:47 <r0kk3rz> ok, so it sounds like a maybe once the wiki is open to contributions for sfos.org
09:39:00 <sledges> yes, until then i suggest to introduce "porting points" ;)
09:39:08 <r0kk3rz> but there is still work to do, if anyone wants to help with the wiki cleanup
09:39:51 <kimmoli> well, atleast there is link to mer-wiki in sailfishos.org
09:39:53 <sledges> "porcupoints"
09:40:01 <sledges> there's that
09:40:08 <Jaymzz> #info everyone agreed on cleaning up the wiki
09:40:19 <tortoisedoc> rum shots
09:40:25 <Jaymzz> r0kk3rz: We done? :)
09:40:29 <tortoisedoc> thats the one
09:40:39 <r0kk3rz> yep Jaymzz we done, thanks
09:40:46 <Jaymzz> Awesome! Moving on
09:40:56 <Jaymzz> #topic QtLocation and Qt 5.6 licensing in general (20 min, asked by otsaloma)
09:41:03 <Jaymzz> #info There is vague information on the mailing list about Qt modules being kept at 5.2 due to LGPLv3 licensing reasons, despite a general update to 5.6. This raises a few questions. What is the problem with LGPLv3? Which Qt modules will be held back? Is Qt eventually moving all modules to LGPLv3 and what would that mean for Sailfish OS? If modules are frozen, are they effectively stable and fit to be allowed in store (e.g. QtLocation)? And why hold
09:41:03 <Jaymzz> modules back to 5.2 instead of updating to the last LGPLv2 version, 5.4. or 5.5
09:41:21 <otsaloma> Hello
09:41:22 <Jaymzz> otsaloma: The stage is yours! 20 minutes begins now.
09:41:38 <otsaloma> Summary is above, i'll expand on it a bit
09:42:02 <otsaloma> There two questions: (1) QtLocation and (2) Qt >= 5.6 licensing in general
09:42:27 <otsaloma> (1) Thus far, we've assumed QtLocation would be allowed in store apps with 5.6, but is that still the condition and will it ever happen? Considering QtLocation has had much improvements since 5.2, can't you at least upgrade to the last version before the license change, 5.5 or 5.4?
09:43:24 <otsaloma> (2) Can we get a list of modules held back in 5.6? And do we get any new modules?
09:43:27 <piggz_> Sledges: official? I think it works on my port now :)
09:43:40 <otsaloma> That's it. Can we start with QtLocation?
09:44:00 <sledges> piggz_: doesn't mean it's official;p
09:44:22 <sledges> sorry for overlap
09:44:33 <piggz_> Sorry
09:44:49 <tortoisedoc> https://github.com/qt/qtlocation -> seems to list GLPV3 LGPLv3/2.1
09:45:44 <otsaloma> I looke through the Qt website, but I didn't manage to find licenses listed by module. Only conflicting information in non-official sources.
09:46:56 <tortoisedoc> question is, why is LGPLv3 not an option for QtLocation?
09:47:45 <Jaymzz> #link https://github.com/qt/qtlocation
09:47:47 <tortoisedoc> did anyone
09:47:51 <piggz_> Or more generally any lgplv3 code
09:47:52 <tortoisedoc> *not go to lunch yet :P
09:47:55 <Sage__> Hi, we are checking this at the moment. Aiming to have solution for it in the first quarter of 2017.
09:48:15 <tortoisedoc> Sage__ can you detail more on what you are checking on?
09:48:18 <Aldrog> Hasn't whole Qt move to GPLv3/LGPLv3?
09:48:21 <tortoisedoc> (licensing / versions?)
09:48:22 <Jaymzz> #info we are checking this at the moment. Aiming to have solution for it in the first quarter of 2017.
09:48:44 <piggz_> Aldrog: thats 5.7 i think
09:49:27 <veskuh> Traditionally big companies did not like (l)gpl v3. This is why it has been avoided by us so far. Like Sage said, we are analyzing if there is still any reason to avoid and change the policy if we can.
09:49:53 <DylanVanAssche> If you guys find a solution to upgrade QTLocation will it then allowed in the store for devs?
09:50:08 <tortoisedoc> veskuh : is there a particular reason for this (l)glp v3 "allergy"?
09:50:10 <M4rtinK> still, this is about applications, right ?
09:50:11 <sledges> by us and by Mer in general
09:50:17 <Jaymzz> #info Traditionally big companies did not like (l)gpl v3. This is why it has been avoided by us so far.  we are analyzing if there is still any reason to avoid and change the policy if we can.
09:50:26 <tortoisedoc> M4rtinK : and harbour?
09:50:33 <M4rtinK> if app developers are OK with the license
09:50:37 <tortoisedoc> M4rtinK : and sdk? :)
09:50:39 <M4rtinK> then that's the problem ?
09:50:54 <M4rtinK> *what's the problem
09:51:40 <Aldrog> piggz_: yep, looks like they partly changed licenses in 5.6 and finished transition with 5.7
09:51:49 <tortoisedoc> M4rtinK : LGPLv3 blocking QtLocations update -> excluding it from harbour
09:51:51 <otsaloma> Is the license a problem for Jolla or third-party apps? Does Jolla have a commercial license for Qt?
09:52:09 <veskuh> tortoisedoc: Some of the constraints of it has been seen as too much (by big companies), but I think opinions have been changing.
09:52:13 <M4rtinK> tortoisedoc: why should it be excluded from Harbour ?
09:52:29 <DylanVanAssche> M4rtinK: if understand correctly, if the update comes through eventually. It will be allowed in harbour?
09:53:02 <M4rtinK> tortoisedoc: I don't think I have seen any reason *why* GPGv3 is problem for Harbour/SDK & applications
09:53:30 <nh1402> are there any plans to add a qtnfc module for ported devices?
09:53:30 <tortoisedoc> M4rtinK: LGPLv3 in this case I assume?
09:54:19 <M4rtinK> tortoisedoc: yeah, at least Qt Location seems to be LGPLv3
09:54:32 <tortoisedoc> compatibility matrix : https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#v2v3Compatibility
09:54:40 <tortoisedoc> (scroll down at the bottom almost)
09:54:45 <veskuh> DylanVanAssche: That’s the intent.
09:55:03 <DylanVanAssche> veskuh: thanks for the info :)
09:55:29 <tortoisedoc> veskuh, M4rtinK im no lawyer, but in non-static linking conditions LGPLv3 code should be ok with LGPLv2.1
09:56:26 <tortoisedoc> so application code as LGPLv2.1 should be ok with LGPLv3 qtlocation
09:56:30 <tortoisedoc> *should* :)
09:57:12 <Jaymzz> 5 minutes remaining
09:57:43 <M4rtinK> well still don't see the issue
09:57:43 <tortoisedoc> can anyone from Jolla side comment on this? :)
09:57:50 <piggz_> So, is that an action on jolla to feedback licence info to the community
09:58:06 <M4rtinK> Poor Maps, which uses Qt Location, for example is GPLv3
09:58:28 <M4rtinK> so that should not be an issue
09:58:35 <M4rtinK> and many other apps are as well
09:59:04 <M4rtinK> or is the problem proprietary applications ?
09:59:14 <piggz_> Also can we get feedback on the modules stuck at 5.2 and why? Is this currently being reviewed?
09:59:37 <M4rtinK> well, the modules can't be used for Harbour at all at the moment so I don't see how this would be an issue
09:59:43 <otsaloma> I'm happy if we get QtLocation for store apps Q1, but would still like to get a module listing, e.g. on the mailing (or is there still a roadmap webpage?)
09:59:46 <M4rtinK> piggz_: +1!
10:00:07 <otsaloma> *mailing list*
10:00:18 <DylanVanAssche> otsaloma: +1
10:00:20 <M4rtinK> otsaloma: yeah, there is a lot of stuff that could be useful, like Canvas 3D for example
10:00:29 <nh1402> nfc
10:00:58 <piggz_> Yeah, im also holding out for qtlocation
10:01:03 <Jaymzz> otsaloma: 1 minute remains, are we almost done? :)
10:01:25 <M4rtinK> did we get any reasonable official answer ? ;-)
10:01:43 <nh1402> i'm holding out for qtnfc for sfdroid reasons
10:01:48 <otsaloma> Yes, I think we're done enough
10:01:59 <M4rtinK> not much info though ;-)
10:02:09 <Jaymzz> otsaloma: Alright then moving on in a few moments
10:02:21 <Jaymzz> M4rtinK: Any more things you wanna know? :) Time's up tho
10:02:52 <Jaymzz> M4rtinK: Let's move on to general discussion and you can discuss it more over there
10:03:05 <Jaymzz> #topic General Discussion (15 minutes)
10:03:47 <otsaloma> I general, what modules are available is the kind of a thing we'd like to know in advance, not after an OS update is released
10:04:00 <M4rtinK> otsaloma: +1
10:04:05 <DylanVanAssche> otsaloma: +1
10:04:12 <ghosalmartin> this might be completely offtopic, but is there any effort for qt5.6? or is that atleast somewhere on the roadmap
10:04:17 <M4rtinK> it rather critical info
10:04:37 <M4rtinK> can be a reason not to write an application if critical modules won't be available
10:04:46 <M4rtinK> or to make it quite a bit harder
10:05:01 <M4rtinK> for example modRana uses it's own map widget instead of Qt Location
10:06:05 <pketo> to summarize: we are reviewing the licenses before we can update the libraries, and we need to update the libraries before they can be accepted in harbour. veskuh, Sage__ , am I right?
10:06:08 <r0kk3rz> ghosalmartin: next update! which is coming SoonTM
10:06:19 <ghosalmartin> r0kk3rz, I love soon :P
10:06:42 <r0kk3rz> ghosalmartin: this one is probably actually soon, like in the next month or two
10:06:51 <veskuh> pketo: yep
10:06:58 <DylanVanAssche> Will 'pip' installer from python ever be allowed to be used by harbour apps? Python has a lot of fantastic modules we can use but some of them need some special requirements (compiling, ...) which are handled by pip. It's harder for devs to include them in the RPM
10:07:40 <DylanVanAssche> it's already installed in the python3 version of every SFOS device
10:08:07 <r0kk3rz> otsaloma: you can watch the harbour check list on git somewhere, i'll find the link for you
10:08:08 <M4rtinK> DylanVanAssche: but it would need gcc & co to compile C extensions, right ?
10:08:17 <M4rtinK> DylanVanAssche: I don't think that's installed by default
10:08:49 <r0kk3rz> otsaloma: https://github.com/sailfish-sdk/sdk-harbour-rpmvalidator
10:09:33 <otsaloma> @r0kk3rz: the validator is the last thing to be updated. I'd like to know sooner!
10:09:36 <DylanVanAssche> M4rtinK: yes, but if that's not allowed no problem. But pure Python packages installing though PIP is much easier and they are always up-to-date then, now every Python package needs to be manually included into the RPM with the SDK
10:10:23 <Jaymzz> half time ;)
10:10:41 <M4rtinK> DylanVanAssche: so maybe better pip support in the SDK ?
10:10:54 <M4rtinK> DylanVanAssche: to make the packages standalone
10:11:29 <DylanVanAssche> Yes that would be nice, maybe the same thing as you can install packages now in the SDK for every target. Standalone packages are not allowed in harbour sadly
10:13:25 <Jaymzz> 5 mins remaining
10:13:26 <M4rtinK> DylanVanAssche: I mean to make the application package bundle the stuff from pip to make it standalone
10:13:59 <M4rtinK> DylanVanAssche: and indeed - it would be good if one could submit multiple packages for one app
10:14:19 <M4rtinK> DylanVanAssche: that would be often helpful for updates & cleaner (less bundling hacks)
10:14:33 <DylanVanAssche> Yes that's why I mean, you can use pip then in the mer sdk to compile those CPython modules and combine it into one package specific for x86 or arm
10:14:40 <M4rtinK> DylanVanAssche: OpenRepos for example can do that
10:14:57 <M4rtinK> DylanVanAssche: (multiple packages)
10:15:29 <DylanVanAssche> M4rtinK: Openrepos has already several of those packages with Python modules but the whole problem that I can't publish my app to harbour then...
10:16:08 <M4rtinK> indeed
10:16:23 <DylanVanAssche> https://github.com/dasimmet/Sailfish-Python
10:16:57 <DylanVanAssche> here's a template that fixes this but it's using fpm instead of the SDK?
10:17:14 <Jaymzz> 2 minutes remaining guys, let's wrap up :)
10:17:57 <DylanVanAssche> Maybe Jolla can include this into the SDK?
10:18:41 <M4rtinK> I think SDK-based Python packaging could be improved quite a bit in general
10:19:01 <DylanVanAssche> +1
10:19:07 <oniongarlic> is gstreamer now fully 1.x based?
10:19:46 <Jaymzz> Time's up guys, gonna give it a couple more monutes as I see a question here, then Ill move on
10:19:48 <DylanVanAssche> M4rtinK: Will set this as a topic for the next meeting
10:19:54 <sledges> +1
10:20:20 <abranson_> oniongarlic: yeah we're on 1.8 of gstreamer now. the 0.10 packages are disappearing.
10:20:33 <Jaymzz> Alright, moving on in 30 sec
10:20:54 <Jaymzz> #topic Next meeting date (5 min)
10:21:24 <Jaymzz> First Monday of Feb? That will be Feb 6th 2017
10:21:30 <Jaymzz> Same time (0900 UTC)
10:21:33 <Jaymzz> Votes?
10:21:33 <DylanVanAssche> perfect!
10:21:37 <sledges> fosdem ;p
10:21:49 <DylanVanAssche> oh that's right :p
10:21:52 <oniongarlic> abranson_: great
10:21:53 <sledges> that makes it Saturday the 4th ;)
10:22:02 <r0kk3rz> well, monday post fosdem
10:22:06 <Jaymzz> sledges: right!
10:22:12 <r0kk3rz> maybe on the tuesday instead?
10:22:23 <sledges> r0kk3rz: https://together.jolla.com/question/154586/fosdem-it-together-2017/?comment=154700#comment-154700
10:22:36 <sledges> it's to do the meeting -there- ;)
10:22:36 <Jaymzz> sledges: 13th of feb?
10:22:41 <sledges> Jaymzz: ^
10:22:45 <Jaymzz> sledges: Oh sorry
10:22:54 <Jaymzz> sledges: totally forgot about that
10:23:01 <sledges> np, that's what i'm here for:D
10:23:02 <r0kk3rz> sledges: heh, not such a bad idea, get people on skype or something
10:23:09 <sledges> youtube style webinar
10:23:10 <r0kk3rz> i think we periscoped it last time
10:23:12 <sledges> if we pull off some 4G
10:23:30 <sledges> was very bad connection on cybette's phone:) so only initial and low-fi periscope
10:23:36 <r0kk3rz> yup
10:23:37 <DylanVanAssche> I have an eduroam pass and I think the ULB has eduroam
10:23:48 <DylanVanAssche> Normally I will come to FOSDEM
10:23:54 <sledges> if everything else fails, we will relay to irc;)
10:23:55 <DylanVanAssche> but no promisses
10:24:11 <sledges> i'll also ping phdeswer, he's always organising embedded room there
10:24:29 <DylanVanAssche> +1
10:24:30 <sledges> s
10:24:30 <sledges> so
10:24:33 <sledges> #link https://together.jolla.com/question/154586/fosdem-it-together-2017/?answer=154587#post-id-154587
10:24:38 <sledges> (the correct link this time;)
10:24:50 <sledges> any vetoes? ;)
10:24:52 <Jaymzz> sledges: So, FOSDEM it is then! Please type the exact time and date here as well (just to be sure it's correct)
10:24:58 <Jaymzz> I vote yes
10:25:02 <Jaymzz> on fosdem
10:25:05 <DylanVanAssche> Me 2
10:25:16 <sledges> we'll have "BoF (birds of feather) classroom and will inform you on its place and time on the day (usually start around 15:00 or 16:00 UTC)"
10:25:21 <sledges> Saturday 4th February
10:26:08 <sledges> please suggest collab/brainstorm-type topics under that link, we'll take any topics from the usual tjc post too
10:26:30 <Jaymzz> Feb 4th between 1500 or 1600 UTC, we can confirm the exact time later in an email
10:26:43 <sledges> ^ on saturday morning ;)
10:27:00 <ljo_> :)
10:27:04 <jwalck> oh, ill have to see if i get to fosdem this year but good!
10:27:22 <sledges> jwalck: if you do, upvote BoF and dinner events ^^
10:27:46 <jwalck> sledges: ait, I'll take a look:)
10:28:02 <sledges> great, see you all there or here ;D
10:28:52 <Jaymzz> Awesome. So the exact time and date will be emailed to you all when it is 100% confirmed. Sledges you fine with this? :)
10:28:53 <dr_gogeta86> sledges, i got both session recorded of last years BOF ... with bad audio
10:29:05 <sledges> Jaymzz: aye aye sir!
10:29:10 <Jaymzz> Let us have a good microphone this year too xD
10:29:15 <Jaymzz> sledges: Awesome!
10:29:19 <Jaymzz> It is a wrap!
10:29:33 <sledges> mm kebab
10:29:42 <Jaymzz> Thank you all for this meeting, minutes will be emailed to you shortly. Cheers!
10:29:52 <Jaymzz> #endmeeting