09:00:27 #startmeeting Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration – April 5th 2017 09:00:27 Meeting started Wed Apr 5 09:00:27 2017 UTC. The chair is Jaymzz_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Meetings. 09:00:27 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 09:00:39 #info Meeting information and agenda can be found here: https://lists.sailfishos.org/pipermail/devel/2017-April/007813.html 09:00:48 I am the meeting’s chairperson today and will be doing my best to keep time and order. Please behave, respect the timings and be gentle. 09:01:01 #topic Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with # info 09:01:09 #info James Noori, Community Manager, Jolla 09:01:12 #info Aleksi Suomalainen, community 09:01:49 #info Chris Adams, developer at Jolla 09:02:10 #info Vesa-Matti Hartikainen, Program Manager at Jolla 09:03:22 Where has everyone gone xD 09:03:23 #info luca247 , sailfish os user 09:03:38 #info tadzik, sailfish user and app developer 09:04:02 # info PureTryOut, SailfishOS user, has a Jolla 1 09:04:03 #info Martin Ebnöther, SailfishOS User 09:04:29 # info PureTryOut, SailfishOS user, has a Jolla 1 09:04:36 sorry for that first time, messed up 09:04:54 #info Tommi Keisala, community 09:04:55 #info atlochowski, sailfishos user 09:05:00 #info Matti Koskimies, user 09:05:07 PureTryOut: think you messed up the second time, space between hash and info 09:05:13 #info jwalck, community member 09:05:26 #info PureTryOut, SailfishOS user, has a Jolla 1 09:05:27 #info Mikaela Suomalainen, community member (SailfishOS Fan Club) 09:05:28 last time 09:05:38 PureTryOut[m]: Now we're talking ;) 09:05:52 sorry for that mess :( 09:05:57 No worries! 09:05:57 #info Leif-Jöran Olsson, community 09:06:05 #info Steph Gosling (community, porter) 09:06:11 #info pavi,community 09:06:27 #info Andrey Kozhevnikov, community, omprussia 09:06:49 #info Thomas, mer community 09:06:57 First topic, coming up! 09:07:15 #topic Sailfish Browser / Servo, asked by mh1402 (20 min) 09:07:18 #info Servo components are slowly being added to Firefox, WebRender, Quantum etc. on target to be added some point this year. I think we should jump straight to these components once they are stable enough, and bypass these old versions of embedlite/firefox. 09:07:42 #info Drummer12 community member, early adopter 09:07:56 I meant nh1402, bad typo 09:08:07 #info Simonas Leleiva, running late 09:08:28 #info Fabio Isgrò ... Power user 09:08:36 #info Andre Walker, user 09:09:26 nh1402: It's your topic man, the stage is yours! 09:10:27 * jwalck crickets 09:10:52 * PureTryOut[m] makes quiet nature noises 09:10:55 #info Raine M�kel�inen, developer at Jolla 09:10:57 Right, 3 minutes gone! Anyone has a say? :) 09:10:57 sorry for being late 09:11:15 #info Lewis Rockliffe, community 09:11:16 Jaymzz_: well I have a question which is browser related, but not so much Servo 09:11:57 I guess nh1402 is not here yet so... this is a bit awkward 09:12:06 Veskuh do you have a comment on this topic? 09:12:15 Jaymzz_: he was just in sailfishos-porters... 09:12:19 Jaymzz_: skip and return later if nh1402 came late 09:12:22 Jaymzz_: rainemak would be the expert in browser 09:12:38 PureTryOut[m]: Let's see if rainemak has a comment here and we'll move on 09:12:48 sure 09:12:58 I'm perfectly ok if community would like to work on servo but I do not think it's ready yet for commercial use 09:13:23 And this is when we need nh1402 to reply :D 09:13:24 eventually we could switch to Servo based gecko 09:13:40 do mozilla even use it in a product yet? 09:13:48 nope 09:14:10 #info We could eventually switch to Servo based gecko but it isn't ready for commercial use yet. Community, feel free to work on it 09:14:43 "once they are stable enough" - then we talk :D 09:14:53 mozilla merged the brances if i understood correctly so does this mean that is easy to build in sfos? 09:15:01 Alright, rainemak if you have no further comments, we can move on since nh1402 isn't present. 09:15:50 have something like an experimental servo sfos browser 09:16:13 PureTryOut[m]: Since rainemak is here, you can ask your browser related question and tag him :) 09:16:39 rainemak: did you ever hear from MZ about accepting embedlite? 09:17:15 ApBBB, there's Servo Android build instructions... I'd assume that you can build it on top of arm linux as well 09:17:24 rainemak: Is there a plan to support WebRTC in the near future? Now that gecko version is recent? 09:17:30 aah well. as just a simple user I don't know much about it, but I see the browser is a fork of Firefox. is there any chance we'll see the ability to add plugins to the browser (AdBlock, NoScript, others) somewhere in the future? rainemak 09:17:42 Keep in mind that there is only 10 minutes left on this topic 09:17:48 #info Kimmo Lindholm, Late 09:17:54 plugins used to work at some point :/ 09:18:15 ublock origin would be awesome to have 09:18:37 #info eekkelund, late as well 09:18:45 ApBBB, yeap they used to work... I'd assume that could get them working also now if you'd utilize ff plugins that are compitible for esr38 09:18:47 ApBBB: yeah I mostly care about uBlock, but I have some more I'd like 09:18:54 #info ghosalmartin just curious, and also late it seems 09:18:58 ApBBB, but not officially supported 09:19:23 rainemak: any plans to move to newer ESR? 09:19:40 #info Nokius community also late 09:19:45 PureTryOut[m], partially difficult as SFOS Browser's ui is written in QML and we do not have xul ui 09:20:19 ApBBB, yes at some point... next target is ESR45 but schedule is open 09:20:23 What about Firefox's planned move to WebExtensions? 09:20:38 thanks 09:21:50 whoops, got busy with work 09:22:17 #info Andrew Branson. Sailor. Latest. 09:22:20 nh1402: No problem, there's 5 minutes left only so I think we can move your topic to the next meeting? 09:22:28 fair enough 09:22:56 nh1402: Good. At least we got some other questions answered ;) 09:22:58 Yaniel, let's see what happens there... there seems to be at least some consensus between different players 09:23:29 rainemak: but it's a possibility? thanks for your answer! 09:23:33 abranson: totes late 09:23:59 laterest 09:24:48 Alright we shall move on in a few seconds 09:25:03 PureTryOut[m], I don't have good answer if that's doable / feasible 09:25:23 #info this topic will be revisited during the next meeting 09:25:43 rainemak: fair enough, thanks 09:25:52 Moving on :) 09:25:55 #info Chupligin Sergey, omprussia, glacier develioer 09:25:56 #topic Matrix client need for a native client, asked by Pavi and PureTryOut (15 min) 09:25:57 thanks rainemak :) 09:26:07 #info Matrix is an open protocol for decentralised communication on http. It allows users to see a backlog of messages, it also supports voice and video calls. It's designed to support group communication and additionally offers bridges to various other protocols/services like IRC, XMPP, slack etc. There is already one QML based client Tensor which in its 0.1 version has Sailfish Os implementation. Other clients which are Qt based 09:26:07 are Nachat. The main client Riot is JS based. It would be nice to have a native client 09:26:27 Thanks rainemak for being present during the previous topic and answering questions :) 09:26:50 pavi[m]: PureTryOut[m]: the stage is yours for 15 minutes 09:26:51 (Quaternion is a client also willing to accept patches for SFOS compatibility) 09:27:04 So tensor the matrix client worked in its 0.1 version https://together.jolla.com/question/127769/tensor-matrix-client/ 09:27:31 https://github.com/davidar/tensor 09:27:45 "worked" but yeah it changed 09:27:57 #link https://together.jolla.com/question/127769/tensor-matrix-client/ 09:28:08 #link https://github.com/davidar/tensor 09:28:15 it never worked very well, not for regular use 09:28:31 r0kk3rz: Yes it changed and here is the issue on the change. https://github.com/davidar/tensor/issues/4#issuecomment-222780172 09:29:04 PureTryOut: can you link quaternion? I'm on mobile atm 09:29:16 #link https://github.com/davidar/tensor/issues/4#issuecomment-222780172 09:29:22 Matrix has lately been gaining a lot of traction, and it might be "the one solution/standard to rule them all". Sadly right now it's lacking any sort of native client for SFOS, and we're stuck with running the F-Droid version of Riot for Android 09:29:23 Adding/making a Matrix client would allow SFOS users to use both Matrix, but also other networks which are bridged to it via a single client and account. 09:29:32 Yaniel: http://github.com/fxrh/quaternion 09:29:44 We kind of have 3 choices to get a native SFOS client. 1. Tensor 2. Nachat (Qt) 3 Quaternion. 09:29:44 #link http://github.com/fxrh/quaternion 09:30:00 #info Matrix has lately been gaining a lot of traction, and it might be "the one solution/standard to rule them all". Sadly right now it's lacking any sort of native client for SFOS, and we're stuck with running the F-Droid version of Riot for Android 09:30:00 Adding/making a Matrix client would allow SFOS users to use both Matrix, but also other networks which are bridged to it via a single client and account. 09:30:20 I understand its hard for Jolla to be working on apps but having a matrix client would solve many communication needs. 09:30:43 is this something that needs to be in the main OS??? Isn't this just something that needs an app? 09:30:52 It acts as IRC bridge and also a VOIP/videoconference solution. 09:31:18 never used matrix in my life, no idea why i should switch to it :D 09:31:19 has anyone built a telepathy module? 09:31:31 imo an app would be enough, but seeing it bridges a lot of separate networks together, it'd probably be nice if it were an officially by Jolla supported app 09:31:37 r0kk3rz: sfos doen not support MUC, so forget 09:31:40 ApBBB: its trying to replace XMPP, but its not there yet 09:31:44 coderus: One good reason is that matrix can be your IRC bouncer. 09:32:29 Matrix can be your IRC Bouncer, connect other protocols or services. Have group chats with message history. And also have voice/video chat. 09:32:43 a quick "What is Matrix?" FAQ from matrix.org itself: http://matrix.org/docs/guides/faq.html#what-is-matrix 09:32:51 pavi[m]: what irc bouncer means? i have VPS with weechat cli + relay on it, and i am 24/7 online, can read any backlogs and access my weechat irc remotely via relay using client application or web client 09:32:58 that FAQ also compares itself with existing networks like IRC, XMPP, etc 09:33:01 Infact right now me PureTryOut Mikaela locusf are all connected to this particular meeting via Matrix. 09:33:24 I'm a bit sceptical to all these one protocol to rule them all solutions, but know very little about matrix 09:33:29 r0kk3rz: if it doesn't get traction on big oses (ios android) it will be DOA. 09:33:44 in general i do not see any *actual* question to discuss. someone just can start develop/port existing client. 09:34:00 if anyone has some more time, I recommend watching their recent FOSDEM talk https://fosdem.org/2017/schedule/event/encrypting_matrix/ 09:34:23 coderus: Its a request for Jolla to make or help support an existing client. 09:34:39 #link https://fosdem.org/2017/schedule/event/encrypting_matrix/ 09:34:42 coderus: agreed. if there's traction, and developers, and users, this ought to happen just from that 09:35:06 pavi[m]: the issue with this is that the matrix API is quite fluid. its not trivial to keep up with all the changes 09:35:07 pavi[m]: did you ever seen Jolla as a company making ANY official clients to ANY services? (except most common facebook and google ones) 09:35:28 sorry, is gwneral discussion? 09:35:33 c-la_: no 09:35:38 coderus: its a request its up to them. 09:35:39 a bigger thing would be allow community added protocols (be it chat or remote storage...) to integrate with the account management in sailfish 09:35:51 pavi[m]: as r0kk3rz says do any of the libs have telepathy support/has anyone written one 09:35:54 pavi[m]: fairly sure we don't have the resources to devote to that, veskuh can disagree 09:35:55 for me it's quite not understandable why peoples asking such small company like Jolla to develop over 9000 possible clients for every network officially 09:35:56 pavi[m]: that was the main reason i stopped looking at Tensor, the features i wanted werent there yet and the basic stuff kept changing 09:36:08 jwalck: good point. and an entry in the contact book for adding Matrix addresses I guess 09:36:58 LarstiQ: pavi[m] Yes, this is an interesting concept, but at the moment it does not look like something Jolla would be developing. 09:37:02 coderus: well making a Matrix client would also make it an IRC client, a Telegram client, a Slack client, a Gitter client, etc. it removes the need to have clients for all those separate networks 09:37:18 Sorry, I am a little confused on this discussion and I think the best is that I try to explain with my own words what is Matrix rather than try to fit into words of other people. 09:37:21 Matrix is a new federated protocol like XMPP and email, so all homeservers talk to each other. There are many native Matrix rooms like https://voyager.t2bot.io/ (a bot which attempts to join all Matrix rooms it sees and map the Matrix network) shows. In addition to having it's own rooms, there are bridges for other protocols including IRC (various networks as you can see at https://mikaela.info/r/matrixirc ), Slack, 09:37:22 Gitter, Twitter, Discord, Telegram. 09:38:07 protocols come and go way more rapidly than a os can or should handle. I guess matrix is part of the 2017 spring collection so that's nice but then porting and maintaing an app is the way forward 09:38:38 I've seen so many over the years and I mostly use e-mail and IRC.:) 09:38:48 veskuh_: If there is a client it would help the people who are interested in decentralised application or services. Jolla as Unlike would perfectly fit a base of matrix users. We already have Jolla fan club a telegram group bridged pretty actively to Matrix. A native client would really be helpful. 09:39:17 seeing this protocol has been gaining traction since (iirc) 2014, it does not look like it'll be part of "the 2017 spring collection" 09:39:19 pavi[m]: jolla doesn't have the resources for stuff like that 09:39:31 hell even its own apps are problematic in some areas 09:39:35 jwalck: you are mistaken. Matrix has a very strong growth in userbase and it solves many issues of xmpp and IRC with respect to presistant communication. 09:39:53 but I'll accept the point that Jolla doesn't have the resources to develop messenger apps 09:39:58 Matrix has mainly been getting attention recently as it has lower learning curve than IRC and for example coming to this room, you would simply register to your preferred homeserver and join to #freenode_#mer-meeting:matrix.org rather than trying to figure out what are your IRC network name, hostname, port, does it use SSL, whatever is SASL and does your network require password. Depending on the room configuration 09:39:59 (currently configuring IRC room like this would require asking Kegan who maintains the freenode bridge for power level 100) Matrix could be accessed without registration and people coming in the mdidle of meeting could just click a link and see what is being talked about and what talked before they joined rather than having to ask what happened before arriving to meeting late. 09:40:03 PureTryOut[m]: i personally do not trust such bridges. someone is developing matrixx client which is connected to bridge developed by someone else 09:40:05 keeping an OS alive is quite a lot of work already I assume 09:40:10 ApBBB_: I do understand Jolla has resource limitations. Someone has to ask. 09:40:20 2 minutes left on this discussion. pavi[m] do we need to extend it another 5 minutes for wrapup? 09:40:35 PureTryOut[m]: Yes, indeed its a lot of work. We do need to be very careful in picking up what work we do. 09:40:40 pavi[m]: I'm sure it's splendid but in my view XMPP is still a fairly new kid on the block. If it's the magic bullet that solves everything noone else did for decades I'm sure it'll be supported by many well written applications, and could later be integrated in the OS 09:40:42 Jaymzz_: please extend. 09:40:48 pavi[m]: Done. 09:41:06 veskuh: it would be cool if messages could support MUC, would fit into XMPP support and general telepathy support 09:41:11 #info Topic duration extended for another 5 minues to wrap up 09:41:45 If you are interested, SailfishOS Fan Club (aka #jollafanclub at freenode) is bridged to https://riot.im/app/#/room/%23jfc:matrix.org and by clicking this link and joining the discussion, you can enter your display name and use Matrix as a guest and get a feeling of what it's like, seeing the bridges to IRC, Discord and Telegram in action. Of course you won't get the full feeling of Matrix without registering. 09:41:57 veskuh_: Yes for MUC as r0kk3rz says. Please atleast help for MUC support for XMPP. I think it would also help Matrix client integration. 09:42:22 pavi[m]: this is a question for future discussions :) 09:42:42 noone cares about xmpp either :/ 09:42:42 coderus: agreed. 09:43:20 we have almost usable telepathy library for telegram, but lack of muc support is not allowing it to be released :P 09:43:47 I guess conclusion is: Jolla doesn't have the resources to support any app like this right now, but the community is free to work on it 09:43:50 anyway, wrapping up: Situation is as before, any pioneering community member can pick this up if they want 09:44:06 at least we tried ;) 09:44:33 Yeah thanks everyone for the answers. 09:44:44 Jaymzz_: veskuh_ final words and then we can wrap up. 09:44:53 pavi[m]: Please go ahead :) 09:45:15 I'll be lurking from here on, other meetings to attend! 09:45:25 keep it up o/ 09:45:29 No I mean I am done asking. Its up to you guys. 09:45:34 the community picked slack telegram and nemo secured services if there is someone how like to se it then there will be a client 09:45:37 imho 09:45:48 I think PureTryOut[m] and r0kk3rz concluded the situation. Anyway, thanks for raising the issue, always learning something new from these discussions. 09:45:48 Please give a closing statement and go to next topic. 09:47:55 #info Conclusion: Community can freely work on a solution. Currently, Jolla is not capable/does not have enough resources to tackle the topic. 09:48:08 #topic General discussion (15 min) 09:48:09 jolla should try to get rid of major blockers to enable community pioneers - as i understood, now it's MUC in this context 09:48:24 so general discussion 09:48:27 sledges: yes it is. 09:48:36 please open up mic parts which create lvm images 09:48:51 veskuh: any news on the sony front ?? 09:48:51 locusf +1 09:48:52 I know its possible manually but laborous 09:49:16 locusf: img.merproject.org wouldn't build them, also sfossdk mic wouldn't yet 09:49:18 ApBBB: Can’t tell anything more at this point. 09:49:33 sledges: oh .. 09:49:51 * LarstiQ perks up 09:50:01 locusf, sledges: what am I missing? 09:50:03 When is the stable release of 2.1 coming up? 09:50:30 LarstiQ: mic tool doesn't support lvm which is needed to create images for eg. jolla c 09:50:30 LarstiQ: only our internal img.j.c can build LVM (loop) images 09:50:33 pavi[m]: The latest Early access build is looking ok, so should be quite soon now :) 09:50:36 veskuh: i understand. hopefulle it will go smooth. i am kind of afraid a sony manager will shut it down because he doesn't understand the whole thing :? 09:50:47 could be extended to use for ports too 09:50:48 sledges, locusf: ok, let's discuss this outside of meeting 09:50:55 LarstiQ: okay 09:51:11 Is Jolla still planning on "freeing" (open-sourcing) the base system? so the UI libs, core apps, etc? I see this has been asked before, and I believe the Jolla CEO recently said something about it, but I haven't heard any specific plans 09:51:57 veskuh lastest build of SailfishOs has problems with browser so I'm not sure if it's ready 09:52:01 any plans to add fingerprint sensor shortcuts?, swiping left and right to switch between open apps and such? 09:52:17 these proprietary parts are scaring some people which could really help the system out. right now FOSS-enthusiasts have to flock to Relicant and such, but being Android is not really preferred 09:52:38 veskuh: once the Xperia program goes live, let's say in Q3, is there a plan to discontinue JP01 support? 09:52:44 veskuh_: Nice to hear that 2.1 is getting stable Whats next for SFOS? will there be a roadmap for future releases? We once had a roadmap. Will there be 2.3 , 2.4 and so on? 09:53:59 PureTryOut[m]: We haven’t changed our plans on open sourcing. Doing it just is more complex than we thought. Essentially this: http://www.mindtrek.org/2016/world-needs-options-join-us-creating-one/ 09:54:28 veskuh: or, in general, for how long will JP01 be supported? 09:54:44 #info regarding opensourcing: We haven’t changed our plans on open sourcing. Doing it just is more complex than we thought. Essentially this: http://www.mindtrek.org/2016/world-needs-options-join-us-creating-one/ 09:54:52 #link http://www.mindtrek.org/2016/world-needs-options-join-us-creating-one/ 09:54:52 c-la_: until it becomes impractical for them to do so i expect 09:55:11 c-la_: At the moment we don’t have a plan to drop support, but we do need to monitor how many devices are still active. 09:55:19 veskuh: at least some apps like the email would be nice to be open sourced 09:55:24 r0kk3rz: them.. who? 09:55:30 Jaymzz_: thanks for the link, I'll read it 09:55:34 c-la_: jolla obviously 09:55:39 ApBBB: Yes, agreed 09:55:54 i am planning to use the j1 until x compact appears 09:55:54 veskuh: thanks, I refer to official Jolla support of coursr 09:56:00 yep 09:56:07 PureTryOut[m]: Thanks to veskuh :) 09:56:17 i had to juggle around sd cards for backups again recently so this is an old topic popping up again: owncloud/nextcloud/webdav support as cloud storage in sailfish? 09:56:33 ApBBB: me too, maybe getting Xperia for Xmas ;) 09:56:52 I'll take that as a no 09:57:00 hoopefully we will be able to buy one from jolla 09:57:13 next question: why is the default user on SFOS "Nemo"? why can't we make our own user when booting up the device for the first time, and on a reboot "log in" using our pincode? on tablet like devices this would allow multiple users to use the device properly, and makes your devices more personalized 09:57:32 i hate having to go through OS instalations on a phone. 09:58:57 also, a possibility in the future to switch DE's from the "login screen" would be nice, and it'd allow the user to easily switch between say Silica, Glacier and Plasma Mobile 09:59:13 PureTryOut[m]: it's part of the build process, there are several steps that happen when baking an image that require the user to exist and to be pre-defined 09:59:16 jwalck: I'd be more than willing to provide help / support if someone from the community wants to contribute webdav sync plugins for remote cloud storage. 09:59:19 PureTryOut[m]: That was one of those decissions we made early on and chaning it now would require some effort. I agree that having proper own username would be nice 09:59:47 nh1402: clicking fingerprint sensor is just an evdev event, map it just like porters would've mapped camera buttons (spiiroin would be the go-to person); using fingerprint sensor as touchpad is a whole new unexplored concept, feel free to delve in! 10:00:24 stephg: is there any chance on changing the process to allow for a custom defined username, and possibly even multiple users? 10:00:50 3 minutes remains of this topic. 10:01:16 sledges: once I get a phone with one, I'll give it a stab 10:02:43 I think we're done with this one too :) I'll move on in a few seconds 10:03:17 #topic Next meeting’s time and date (5 min) 10:03:19 it shucks that theres no warnings of overwriting the wiki .. 10:03:46 So what do you guys say about April 26th, 3 weeks time from now, same time at 09:00 UTC? 10:04:37 Gimme 5 votes and I'll call it a meeting :) 10:05:01 Jaymzz_: will the Sony related Q&A continue during that meeting? iirc we were supposed to have continued with it in the next meeting, which I believe was this one. 10:05:09 Jaymzz_: aye! if not 8:00 utc? 10:05:56 Maybe a meeting after some new info comes from sony ;) 10:05:56 Jaymzz_: +1 10:06:19 nh1402: The majority voted last tiḿe to bring up a question during general discussion if needed. 10:06:21 it's a couple of weeks from now, so maybe we'll get something by then 10:06:51 pavi[m]: That can be a good idea as well but there may be other topics that we might need to answer three weeks from now :P 10:06:55 fair enough 10:07:41 +1 10:07:42 Jaymzz_: I agree. Maybe a meeting coinciding new 2.1 release also would mean lot of new things to discuss? 10:07:46 Jaymzz_: why three weeks? 10:08:23 LarstiQ: More chance to gather topics. I was gonna ask, if anyone wants the next meeting in 2 weeks, we'll do it in 2 weeks. 10:08:43 So we say Wednesday, April 19th at 09:00 UTC? 10:08:56 * LarstiQ prefers predictability 10:09:29 Jaymzz_: can wedo 8:00utc? 10:09:41 Reasonable enough 10:10:07 jwalck: We could, since it's basically the old time considering daylight saving 10:10:21 LarstiQ: is 8 UTC ok? 10:11:07 Jaymzz_: for me, sure 10:11:44 Jaymzz_: then ok for me, 19/4 08:00 UTC 10:12:07 fine by me 10:12:21 here too 10:12:25 Others? I'll wait a minute, if anyone has an issue with it please say. So next meeting: April 19th at 08:00 UTC. 10:12:48 veskuh is this okay for you also? :) 10:14:04 Okay maybe veskuh is gone :D 10:14:10 It's alright, we will say that. 10:14:35 I'll make it a topic so it goes to the top section of the page 10:14:56 #topic next meeting: Wednesday 19th of April 2017 at 08:00 UTC 10:15:17 See you all then, and thank you for participating. Meeting minutes will follow shortly. 10:15:22 #endmeeting