08:00:00 #startmeeting Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 18th October 2017 08:00:00 Meeting started Wed Oct 18 08:00:00 2017 UTC. The chair is sledges. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Meetings. 08:00:00 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 08:00:06 #info Meeting information and agenda can be found here: https://lists.sailfishos.org/pipermail/devel/2017-October/008048.html 08:00:16 (osc copycat from James:) I am the meeting’s chairperson today and will be doing my best to keep time and order. Please behave, respect the timings and be gentle. 08:00:19 #topic Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with # info 08:00:47 #info nh1402, community member 08:00:56 #info Jens Müller, Sailor / Community Member 08:01:04 #info nekron, proud Sailfish X user 08:01:06 #info Steph Gosling, community, porter 08:01:13 #info tbr, mer community 08:01:34 #info Uli Müller, community member 08:01:40 #info Chris Adams, developer at Jolla 08:01:45 #info Leif-Jöran Olsson, community 08:01:53 #info Damien Caliste, community 08:01:58 #info Andrew Branson, Jolla dev 08:02:14 #info Mister_Magister, Porter and community 08:02:40 totally forgot about meeting 08:02:44 #info Marko Saukko, Sailor @ Jolla 08:03:25 #info Matti Kosola, Sailor @ Jolla 08:03:58 #info Martin Kolman, modRana developer & community member 08:04:17 #info Simonas Leleiva, hw and l10n sailing @ Jolla 08:04:36 #info Vincent Knecht, community 08:04:39 #info Pami Ketolainen, sailor @ Jolla 08:05:37 #info eekkelund 08:05:40 alrighty then! 08:05:43 #topic Swype keyboard support on Sailfish OS (asked by nh1402 - 10 min) 08:05:44 #info Joona Pterell, sailor @ Jolla 08:05:52 Petrell sorry 08:06:03 Not having a gesture based keyboard on a gesture based OS is baffling to me. I'm aware there might be license restrictions preventing it from being on the free version of Sailfish, but the prediction engine license for the keyboard on the licensed version of Sailfish also includes gesture based keyboard input. source #link: 08:06:08 #link http://merproject.org/logs/%23sailfishos/%23sailfishos.2017-09-13.log.html#t2017-09-13T08:59:19 08:06:17 #info Not having a gesture based keyboard on a gesture based OS is baffling to me. I'm aware there might be license restrictions preventing it from being on the free version of Sailfish, but the prediction engine license for the keyboard on the licensed version of Sailfish also includes gesture based keyboard input. source #link above 08:06:18 #info Jonatan Walck, community member 08:06:32 #info There is already a post on TJC that has gathered over 500 votes for it So it's not like it's not popular. 08:06:37 #link https://together.jolla.com/question/333/swype-like-virtual-keyboard/ 08:06:54 nh1402: and action! 08:07:21 ooh, morning :) 08:07:46 so yes, there has already been a very popular post in the top 10 of the whole TJC website, but almost 4 years later, still no implementation. 08:08:15 we would like to have tracing input keyboard too, and have had it on our roadmap for some time 08:08:18 a former employee has stated your license for the prediction engine includes gesture typing 08:08:34 one reason being we already have the backend support 08:08:37 Well, we have okboard 08:08:59 but that's not an official keyboard 08:09:15 and sometimes that breaks between different versions of Sailfish 08:09:16 hi 08:09:18 sorry to be late 08:09:43 I've used okboard, which is a good start, but I'm not sure about its stability 08:09:51 No, its a community one, so importance is not higer than for other really missing stuff 08:10:15 the whole OS is gesture based, but the keyboard isn't... 08:10:33 the keyboard cant even change layputs with a gesture :/ 08:10:47 it should have been officially supported from the start in my opinion 08:11:29 jpetrell: So, how's the current status of that feature? Is it still on the "some time" part of the roadmap? :) 08:11:30 for the start we tried to have time to do a keyboard 08:11:50 we are not a large company that can support multiple different input methods from the start 08:12:15 but you pride yourselves on having a gesture based OS 08:12:26 that should include input 08:12:28 jenix: it is still no our roadmap, our text input developer very much would like to work on it if gets time from customer projects 08:12:53 nh1402: in an ideal world perhaps, but bug surface area matters :) 08:12:54 * sledges would miss "swipe-down-to-hide-keyboard" and the unimplemented "swipe-sideways-to-change-layouts" :) 08:13:11 but probably those should still work if swipe is disabled in settings 08:13:12 another way around would be to use an Android keyboard in Sailfish 08:13:30 any chance to give a little priority to it since it seems to be a popular feature request? :) 08:13:37 (2mins remaining) 08:13:57 oh no don't base "core" things on the android tie-in. the android support is a nifty bonus and a stopgap, not a part of sailfish 08:13:58 what about building on okboard and possibly pulling it into the store? 08:14:05 change language gesture would be hard to do consistently, e.g. wouldn't work on tracing input or handwriting recognition 08:14:20 jpetrell: same with already implemented one - swipe down 08:14:46 sledges: true 08:15:02 jwalck: I'm not saying to have it as the only option, I'm saying to give the user an option 08:15:06 swipe space bar for caret repositioning would be cool too :) 08:15:25 I would like to rewrite swipe down gesture so keyboard would follow the finger, now it is not really discoverable as no feedback is given until the end 08:15:42 jpetrell: for a long time i never knew it existed :) 08:15:47 +1 08:15:48 back on topic - swype keyboard 08:15:51 Robbster: looks like the license fits, we could use it as a base to speed up the development 08:16:08 making sure the community provided gesture based keyboard doesn't brake regularly seems like a good start 08:16:12 jpetrell: was checking out the license - seems like we can use it. Not sure about language support. 08:16:23 great minds ^^ 08:16:27 possibly propagating it more might help as well 08:16:38 what would it take to polish okboard up and get it into the store? 08:16:40 community/co-creation power ;-) 08:16:43 so even though it's still one of the most requested features on TJC it's still not going to prioritised any higher 08:17:04 going to be* 08:17:06 jolla isnt a democracy 08:17:10 nh1402: priorities 08:17:26 #info take OKBoard as reference (license is permissive) to speed up development, not on roadmap, but wished for inside Jolla as well, so let's hope for a swift (pun intended) outcome! 08:17:46 moving on folks 08:17:48 r0kk3rz: this is not about democracy - this is about listening to you customers, IMHO 08:17:56 #topic Configure app drawer (asked by nh1402 - 5min) 08:18:14 if somebody pays 10k euro to Jolla I promise we will implement it in the next release 08:18:17 M4rtinK: they listened, they just didnt act 08:18:25 #info Have the ability to reorder apps, alphabetically ascending/descending, custom reordering, by installation, let the user decide. 08:18:25 nh1402: again :D 08:18:43 so, the app drawer is organised by installation datetime 08:18:47 with no other option 08:19:05 jpetrell: seems perfectly doable via crowdfunding if someone set's it up (and I'm not kidding) 08:19:05 nh1402: did you make a tjc for this? 08:19:07 jpetrell: the idea of crowdfunding for features is coming back ? ;) 08:19:18 +1 :) 08:19:19 M4rtinK: too quick for me! 08:19:26 having an option to reorder it by other means would be highly appreciated 08:19:47 r0kk3rz: going back to the previous topic, making a post on tjc means nothing. 08:20:01 nh1402: you can move the icons and implement your own ordering? 08:20:01 nh1402: not nothing... 08:20:14 Robbster: you can? 08:20:24 nh1402: I disagree there - people at Jolla see them, and loads of them end up being 'released' 08:20:32 sledges, on n9 swipe-sideways-to-change-layouts activate swype keyboard as well 08:20:32 nh1402: yeah... drag things around, make folders :) 08:20:42 nh1402: long press on any icon. move it where you want it. move icons on each other to group them into a folder 08:20:48 sometimes things are on there for a long time, but that doesn't mean their priority isn't affected by the post and votes 08:20:50 this is though one, the interface should be kept as simple as possible for most users while power users want more features 08:20:56 there is still over 50% of the top TJC posts unimplemented 08:21:25 nh1402: give us a break, we have also implemented a lot 08:21:40 many worked over nights and weekends on some of those features 08:22:00 sorry, I'm just being a bit salty today 08:22:04 they even worked for a few months without pay... so indeed give them a break :P 08:22:13 nh1402: :) 08:22:22 nh1402: are we still on app drawer topic? 08:22:37 seems like it 08:22:38 most people don't really have that much apps to benefit from so extensive set of options 08:22:43 well seeing as there actually is a way to reorder, I suppose that answers the question 08:22:52 nh1402: well, not actually 08:22:55 nh1402: back on topic, so you can reorder and make folders, was there anything else you thought was missing? 08:22:58 #info this is though one, the interface should be kept as simple as possible for most users while power users want more features 08:23:01 global and in-app search is IMO more important than sorting 08:23:06 the fact that you didn't know about it means that there is an education opportunity 08:23:15 r0kk3rz: alphabetically order the app drawer 08:23:28 or by use 08:23:37 nh1402: Use case for alphabetical? 08:23:43 its clunky but you can do that manually 08:24:02 it's that way on Android these days, those coming from Android would find it easier to transition. 08:24:09 Robbster: All those Android users who have been forced to learn this order :D 08:24:22 adaptive interfaces are tricky, sort ordering by use would mean position of your apps would be in constant flux 08:24:22 there is a possibility to reorder the apps, isn't that enough for the moment? 08:24:23 * sledges just reordered phone/sms/browser/camera three rows down in grid to reach them with thumb, also all other often used apps are now finally "under the fingertip":) so manual is quite most often used i'd think 08:24:33 jenix: Seems like low bus. value. 08:25:01 * Robbster wants to remind everyone that there may be an education opportunity here. 08:25:02 jpetrell: app search would be cool though 08:25:15 r0kk3rz: yes, definitely 08:25:23 there is already an app for app search 08:25:24 #info global and in-app search is IMO more important than sorting 08:25:44 We have app search in Glacier :) 08:25:46 fellfrosch: link/name? 08:25:50 fellfrosch: an app for app search :) yoyo dawg... 08:25:55 eekkelund: cool :) 08:26:00 If I may throw a similar but different point regarding the app drawer in: it's annoying that updated apps are moved to the bottom again (but problably not easy to change that) 08:26:01 careful, Tracker is listening :) 08:26:02 Quick launcher 08:26:07 there isn't a super big number of good apps in order to need search :/ 08:26:34 jenix: ouch. really? :/ 08:26:58 jpetrell: I noticed that at least for android apps (probably because they are removed and the nreinstalled) 08:27:09 jenix: never noticed that behavior in sailfish. 08:27:14 me neither 08:27:20 maybe don't hie app names in the reordering mode ? 08:27:27 it's supper annoying 08:27:32 #info app search app is "Quick launcher" in jolla store for community to have fallback for now 08:27:41 ok, then maybe it's just me 08:27:41 & folders have names anyway, so there is really no reason to do it 08:28:00 M4rtinK: yes 08:28:09 #info Glacier UI (FOSS Sailfish OS sibling) has app search too 08:28:10 for app drawer liked sledges suggestion to allow quick launch of four most important apps you have: opening only the first line of the drawer with shorter gesture 08:28:13 let's wrap up 08:28:33 jpetrell: +1 drawer goes only as much up as you pull, not jumps to the top 08:28:35 Robbster: was thinkling about the same 08:28:35 nh1402: just hold your finger on app 08:28:40 I'll check if I can reproduce that quickly and would get back to that later in the general discussion 08:28:43 also what I've seen is a gesture to bring up keyboard, whioch you can then use to type-to-search on a screen 08:28:56 definitely power user material, but can be super handy 08:29:35 Mister_Magister: thinking the same about what :/ 08:29:36 jpetrell: only first row pull also reminds N9 :) 08:29:37 sounds like an overloaded bottom swipe 08:29:39 jenix: cool thanks 08:29:41 ok moving on 08:29:45 M4rtinK: it will most likely ovelap with another gesture 08:29:54 #topic Sailfish X storage space (asked by c_la - 30 min) 08:30:14 * Robbster is interested in this topic 08:30:15 #info it seems that there are only 18GB of disk space available and that the data for system partition is only 2GB. I believe there should be a discussion with sailors about it. 08:30:21 #link https://together.jolla.com/question/168968/xperia-x-internal-storage/ 08:30:49 well in the log, it seems he/she is unable to attend the meeting today 08:30:59 maybe, it's c_la_phone ? 08:31:09 c_la_phone is in (another) meeting; anyone can substitute 08:31:13 or just discuss:) 08:31:13 yes, he/she mentioned they'll be online but busy 08:31:16 I have sailfishX and was wondering the same thing 08:31:20 ok 08:31:27 its worth noting that the partitions listed in Storage isnt all the partitions on the phone 08:31:32 well, the question that came up was regarding the partition sizes 08:31:51 especially why the system partition still is limited to 2 GB 08:32:00 jenix: aha 08:32:18 which can become quite unhandy when you have lots of apps installed on it and qant to update the phone 08:32:25 *want 08:32:38 I have only 18GB available as well 08:32:54 basically, why the 7 GB fwimage partition ? 08:33:01 exactly, but the device has 32 Gb and only 20 is available - not okay to give up almost 30% of space. 08:33:04 & why is rootfs so small (2.4 GB) 08:33:25 I think the big question here is if there is a specific reason for that or if Jolla can want to consider raising the size of the system partition in future relases 08:33:26 * M4rtinK already has less than 700 MB left on rootfs and he didn't even install Emacs yet 08:33:27 two different questions here. the root fs size and the missing space on the xperia 08:33:42 jenix: +1, exactly 08:33:59 M4rtinK: the reason for that is that we don't repartition the phone from its android layout, as that opens a huge can of worms 08:34:00 abranson: splitting hairs, but ok 08:34:24 the partition we use for the fwimage is the android system partition 08:34:26 speaking of android, how much space does aliendalvik use? 08:34:28 which is 8gb 08:34:36 abranson: oh, so they have it setup in this stupid way ? 08:34:52 for android it makes sense as the android system is huge 08:35:02 M4rtinK: its not stupid for them, it just doesnt map well for us 08:35:09 abranson: is 2.4 GB not enough for recovery images ? 08:35:12 if we had somewhere else to put the fwimage, then we could add it to the lvm pool and you'd have it all 08:35:19 7 GB for root would make much more sense 08:35:28 oh, right 08:35:30 I get it now 08:35:41 but there's nowhere else to put the fwimage, and that's quite important 08:35:41 rootfs & home are on LVM 08:35:44 yes 08:35:47 and there is the separate 7 GB partition 08:35:53 yes 08:36:05 does FWimage need to be a partition ? 08:36:23 well, personally, I don't mind the loss of these 7 GB, that's why you have sdcards, right? :) 08:36:29 if it was an LV you could do another PV on the 7 Gb partition and all would be well 08:36:34 there are instructions around for recreating the userdata and system partitions, but that's really dangerous play 08:36:55 could we have an option in developer settings to re-partition? 08:37:06 putting the fwimage in an LVM partition is a bit risky too 08:37:11 AFAIK the recovery at the moment drops the whole LVM, including the volume group and recreates it 08:37:22 but I think that a bit too paranoid 08:37:28 you have the recovery image, and that's probably a low enough bar for messing with this 08:37:32 just dropping the LVs should be enough 08:37:35 but you can see why the current choices were made 08:37:50 M4rtinK: what if device gets bricked by errors in LVM? 08:38:07 abranson: regarding the partition use, I'll do. But why only 2.4 GB for the system lvm? 08:38:07 (if we held fimage in there) 08:38:32 s/lvm/partition/g 08:38:40 sledges: I don't think that'S very likely, LVM is pretty robust 08:39:16 one of the problems of losing space on internal memory is, that android apps cannot write on SD cards. Otherwise I wouldn't care... 08:39:36 jenix: that was enough on a 16gb device, but I don't know if there are reasons why it should stay that way on a larger device 08:39:37 fellfrosch: and then there is excessive eMMC write fatigue 08:40:01 i see 08:40:06 M4rtinK: probably also as well so that no-one would be able to delete/access that image ;P 08:40:13 it is on separate partition 08:40:15 sledges: Fedora & RHEL have been using it as default partitioning for ever and it doesn't just crap out for no reason 08:41:41 jenix: but other than that I think the rootfs should be at least made bigger, that's indeed the more pressing concern 08:41:52 abranson: I'd imagine it to be quite some additional work, but maybe you could add a partition setting to the install process. Or is the partitioning already fix in the flashin image? 08:42:18 #info it is not possible to repartition the device, hence we lose 7 GB worth of space in the Android's system partition (that we only use for ~1.5 GB factory reset image, which cannot be placed elsewhere) 08:42:35 especially as die to various Store and platform limitations apps are likely to get bigger over time due to bundling 08:43:28 sledges: are there post installation steps that we can follow to reclaim some of that space? 08:43:32 (e.g. add custom parameters to the flashing script which you can use to define individual sizes) 08:43:37 abranson: it's anything liekly to blow up if people resize the fwimage partition and add a new PV on the empty space ? 08:44:03 M4rtinK: I haven't tried that, but I think someone on tmo has. 08:44:08 sledges: alternatively: Are there post installation steps to enlarge the system partition to greater then 2Gb to future proof the device? 08:44:09 Robbster: it can only be done via repartitioning and losing factory reset 08:44:32 Robbster: i have 2.4 GB on Jolla C, same on Xperia X for system partition 08:44:33 i think if you get it right then you're ok, but it's easy to get wrong and lose your radios or worse 08:44:35 sledges: can we resive partitions and then reflash? 08:44:42 that should be even doable from the OS itself, as the partition should not be mounted mounted 08:44:44 Robbster: You can always resize the lvm partitions from the recovery 08:45:03 Robbster: 11:36 < abranson> there are instructions around for recreating the userdata and system partitions, but that's really dangerous play 08:45:17 you wouldn't get additional space, but can increase the system partition if needed 08:45:19 Robbster: same about resizing 08:45:42 sledges: seen them, but seems complicated and not specific to XperiaX size. haven't tried. 08:45:53 jenix: I'll take it! 08:46:19 jenix: if you make the fwimage partition smaller, create a new PV in the empty space and add it to the system volume group 08:46:23 you would get more space 08:46:57 but it's likely easier to just resize the LVs in the VG than to do this 08:47:06 M4rtinK That's right, but as abranson pointed out, this is actually much more dangerous as you can destroy important data areas 08:47:49 resizing inside the LVM is much less error prone 08:48:01 really important areas. there are qualcomm partitions there that cannot be easily replaced, and permanently disable hardware or the entire phone if you mess with them 08:48:01 Is there something that we can do in android prior to flash to make it easier? 08:48:13 on a related note I think the Xperia 2011 series had to be re-partitioned to get newer (unofficial) versions of Android installed on them. 08:48:15 Robbster: There are various guides around for that, I'll get you a link 08:48:16 Robbster: no - android's using all of that 08:48:28 abranson: thx, just checking 08:48:59 jenix: pm? 08:49:29 Robbster: For the Jolla C there is a guide here: https://together.jolla.com/question/156279/installing-system-updates-fails-when-there-is-not-enough-space-in-system-data-partition/?answer=156670#post-id-156670 08:49:42 Robbster: you basically just have to adjust partition sizes 08:50:06 jenix: 'just' 'basically' :D 08:50:23 Would it be possible to update the TJC post with the reasons? 08:50:50 * M4rtinK notes how crazy the whole thing is due to sticking to plain partitions 08:51:01 Would it be possible to create a 'how to' to resize XperiaX partitions with the correct sizes? 08:51:06 it would have been so much easier if they used LVM 08:51:24 (they == Android) 08:51:30 #info to the brave souls out there: 08:51:31 it has been there fo ages... 08:51:32 #link https://together.jolla.com/question/156279/installing-system-updates-fails-when-there-is-not-enough-space-in-system-data-partition/?answer=156670#post-id-156670 08:52:16 * Robbster is not that brave 08:52:19 I think an explanation of the reasons why it is how it is could be done, but I think it would be foolish to try to provide instructions on repartitioning on tjc, especially not from someone from Jolla. so many devices would be lost. 08:52:20 lantern in TMO has done some partitioning on f5122: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1536460&postcount=1580 08:52:26 the bar needs to be high 08:52:44 Robbster: Well, the issue with stuff like that is that it is quite safe from the system point (you are running some quite safe commands), but you can damage the filesystem and have to reflash the device if you are using them wrong 08:53:06 abranson: I totally agree with you 08:53:11 messing around with the lvm is an order of magnitude safer than the physical device partitions though 08:53:11 the partitioning doesn't even matter as long as kernel supports it and the ramdisk can mount it 08:53:18 abranson: is there a possibility to brick the phone even with emma flash mode? 08:53:36 jenix: happy if I have to reflash. as long as that option is available. It's the bricking that I'm worried about. 08:53:56 r0kk3rz: yeah you could remove the thing that emma talks to 08:54:26 abranson: i thought that would be off limits to the OS, but maybe not :) 08:54:29 now stephg will sing the ballad of his x compact. 'tis a sad tale of woe. 08:54:30 im not going to try 08:54:44 :D 08:54:47 Robbster: I'm not aware you can totally brick your phone with the resizing - if anything goes wrong, the system or user partition is messed up, which is easily be replaced during recovery / reflashing 08:54:50 #info no safe solutions exist to the two problems: losing 7 GB to factory reset, and too small system partition (rootfs); we'll have in mind to enlarge rootfs in future devices, for now just install less apps and use SD card ;) 08:55:32 sledges: You forgot "You are holding it wrong" :D 08:55:34 sledges: no. Avoiding the problem is not good enough. 08:55:51 Robbster: bricking device isn't either 08:55:53 moving on 08:55:55 #topic General QA after sailfish X release (asked by c_la - 30 min) 08:56:10 sledges: I'll forgo the 7Gb, but the system partition size should be solvable? 08:56:22 technically you can mount the factory reset partition at runtime and use it to store data ;-) 08:56:23 Robbster: only to power users 08:56:29 So, how did the release of SFOS X went for you at Jolla? 08:56:35 just leave enough for the images :) 08:57:21 is v. sad tale 08:57:21 From all I've seen on TJC and TMO, there were no bigger issues, so first of all congratulations for the successful release 08:57:24 :) 08:57:50 sledges: please tell me you are starting preparing stuff for xz1 compact :D 08:58:06 jenix: the whinge brigade was out on TJC :) 08:58:10 jenix: reflashing may not be possible btw, I'd be very careful with the partitions 08:58:17 * stephg just got off bike 08:58:19 ApBBB: i can't tell you that :D 08:58:43 i hope you do. 08:58:50 even without telling me 08:59:12 ApBBB: +1 on the XZ1, people have been asking me about it as well 08:59:16 ApBBB: im certain all focus is still on the Xperia X 08:59:28 sledges: So, now official comment about if / what devices are next for a SFOS X release? 08:59:41 sledges: when *can* you tell us the next Sony device? 08:59:54 why's xperia x not ok? ;) 09:00:00 too big :D 09:00:06 for how many people? 09:00:08 too big 09:00:11 stephg +1 09:00:14 nh1402: after they've decided what its going to be 09:00:18 tsk. it's only been seven days since it launched. 09:00:41 sledges: have you looked into Neard for NFC support on the X? 09:00:48 sledges: it totally is for me. But seeing that the number of vendors were limited at launch, it's probably becoming difficult to get hold of the hardware soon 09:01:00 r0kk3rz: that's also a good point 09:01:32 jenix: vendors? xperia x sellers? 09:01:35 r0kk3rz: iirc that requires kernel level changes 09:01:36 NFC would be nice, even just supported at API level so that third party developers can use it 09:01:46 jenix: x compact is EOL too just as x 09:01:51 sledges: yes, shops that sell the xperia x 09:01:53 IIRC there is a Qt API for that, it just needs to be wired to that 09:02:22 nh1402: it shouldnt do... not with 3.10 kernel 09:03:15 around 20 people talking here today, 3-4 said that xperia x is too big 09:03:18 * sledges writes down the % :D 09:03:24 speaking of kernels... Sony will release a 4.4 kernel for the xperia x for the next andoird version, any chance we will see that in SFOS? 09:03:41 sledges: well it's a trend generally in the market isn't it 09:03:42 r0kk3rz: no time for nfc, how about community (hw adaptation is open ;) 09:03:52 jenix: iirc sledges didn't rule out not updating the kernel 09:03:54 for me it's also slightly to big. Bought it anyway 09:04:02 stephg: i'm thinking how much that would boost sales (but i'm not sfx program manager, just curious ;) 09:04:10 sledges: yeah i'll poke around with it, i built neard on merobs 09:04:31 \o/ 09:04:52 heh 09:05:06 jenix: last time I looked the camera wasn't working yet for the X on 4.4. 09:05:16 are your expectations regarding sales numbers of Sailfish X fullfilled? 09:05:23 r0kk3rz: one thing is that it probably won't support host card emulation 09:05:46 sledges: all "smart" phones are too big for pockets - but that is what it is. baggy pants or keep your phone in your hand! 09:05:48 which I would like, in android support, for mobile payments 09:06:22 nh1402: yes you said before, but if zero phones use neard then why would they implement that? 09:06:30 abranson: I also heard that Sony is still experimenting / adapting to the X hardware, so it's probably not gonna happen the next month. But it would nevertheless be great to see 4.4 on the xperia x 09:06:42 peperjohnny: very much so! keep 'em coming :D tell your friends etc :)) (how many of them have x compacts? ;) 09:06:45 abranson: not just the camera's iirc the headphone jack doesn't work and a few other things 09:06:47 atm its geared more for tag reading and POS use 09:06:51 jwalck: someone needs to come up with a edge to edge 4.7" phone. i believe they can fit it in n9 dimensions 09:06:55 more or less 09:07:25 @sledges glad to hear. I'll shout it out to the world ;) 09:07:26 ApBBB: so something like the Sharp Aquos Crystal? 09:07:43 a newer kernel may also solve the issues some are having with their sd cards 09:07:45 ApBBB: or just realize your phone is not your laptop no matter how hard you try - and do the best with something pocketable for phoney use instead? 09:07:48 on the screen size debate i see a lot of chinese ladies with a ring stuck to the back of their phones 09:07:53 with huge phone sizes 09:08:25 r0kk3rz: have a friend here who has that, she really likes it (think she has an s6 or s7) 09:08:42 stephg: yeah its a fairly genius idea really 09:08:43 * Robbster wonders if we are still on topic? 09:08:45 nh1402: there's lots of lovely things in that 4.4 kernel. but we'd need full android 7 bsp support too which we're not there with yet. 09:08:49 r0kk3rz: the way I see that is if you need that ring to hold the phone, you bought the wrong phone. 09:09:11 nh1402: what if you like the big screen? 09:09:18 abranson: but it sounds you are looking into it and it may happen once sony got things sorted out!? 09:09:21 09:09:34 I havent bought xperia x + sailfish x yet since my jolla c works well enough and I'd much rather support fairphone and save my environmental conciousness than buy more electronics to stack in a drawer 09:09:55 anyway we can talk all day about screen sizes and never agree, so what else for teh sony 09:09:56 so raising that topic again - keep working with fairphone!:) 09:10:01 sledges: fingerprint support coming? 09:10:12 What can we expect in the next update to work? 09:10:15 * Robbster doesn't care about fingerprint support 09:10:27 fellfrosch: theres a thing on TJC about that 09:10:32 is there anywhere where we can vote on priorities? 09:10:32 sledges: is there anything that you can share on the Fairphone front? 09:10:40 r0kk3rz: I think we might have some questions to fp sony guy in #jollamobile (RaYmAn) to unblock us :) 09:10:42 btw does the camera record in 1080p60?? 09:10:55 chriadam_: no news that i know of atm 09:11:11 ok, thanks 09:11:17 r0kk3rz: do you have a link? 09:11:18 speaking of fingerprint support, is there any plans to use it as the root password? 09:11:28 oooh sounds good sledges 09:11:44 nh1402: that would be terrifying 09:11:56 I'd pay for a prepared fairphone image even without the proprietary bits! 09:12:34 jwalck: then install mals port? 09:12:38 personally I think hotspot support, bluetooth stabilisation and working compass 09:12:41 does the fingerprint sensor work in apps, ie. android apps? 09:13:04 r0kk3rz: I'll get a fairphone 2 from work before the end of october, I just might:) 09:13:06 look like stuff that really should be fixed soon 09:13:37 jwalck: now we have open syspart stuff, in the community we can actually make productised releases like Xperia X 09:13:50 thats all regressions, not really new features :) 09:14:16 nh402: no fingerprint in android for my bank-online app 09:14:17 r0kk3rz: ORLY? I need to spend more time digging here it would seem! syspart stuff? 09:14:34 M4rtinK_phone_: I can get behind that. BT before anything else. 09:14:35 jwalck: nice workplace you got there who give FPs ;) 09:14:57 jwalck: like using lvm+ext4 and cut down android instead of full android install, jolla-recovery .etc 09:14:57 M4rtinK_phone_: actually bt and hotspot are pretty evenly tied. 09:15:07 sledges: how many cases of beer to have vesku (or whoever in charge) prefer the xz1 compact? 09:15:09