09:01:00 <nh1402w> #startmeeting Multitasking, open source, nemomobile - 22nd February 2018
09:01:00 <merbot> Meeting started Thu Feb 22 09:01:00 2018 UTC.  The chair is nh1402w. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Meetings.
09:01:00 <merbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
09:01:35 <nh1402w> #topic Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with # info
09:02:17 <locusf> #info locusf, has no idea this takes place
09:02:49 <nh1402w> I tried advertising this as best I could, mentioned it on #nemomobile a couple of times, on tjc, tmo
09:02:57 <nh1402w> half an hour ago even
09:03:28 <r0kk3rz> #info Lewis Rockliffe - so wots all this then
09:04:21 <nh1402w> well at least the meeting won't consist of me talking to myself
09:05:56 <schmittlauch> #info schmittlauch – will mostly listen interestedly
09:06:33 <nh1402w> I'll give 2 more minutes
09:07:36 <nh1402w> #info nh1402, meeting starter
09:08:03 <nh1402w> #topic Implementation details
09:08:29 <nh1402w> alright, so how should we go about doing this
09:09:46 <nh1402w> I suppose we would need to modify glacier ui and some other things?
09:09:46 <eekkelund_> #info eekkelund
09:09:56 <nh1402w> the compositor perhaps
09:10:01 <locusf> yes
09:10:40 <locusf> compositor needs to be modified so that when its in split mode, it makes the windows side-by-side  or up-down
09:10:49 <schmittlauch> Can someone give me a quick overview about the relationship between glacier and (the open part of) lipstick? Is there any?
09:11:18 <locusf> glacier is an instance of lipstick homescreen
09:11:41 <locusf> lipstick itself is just a library for handling creation of those homescreens
09:11:51 <schmittlauch> ah, thx
09:12:19 <locusf> job of the homescreen is handling of windows, launching apps, providing the multitasking etc etc
09:12:54 <eekkelund_> Size of ApplicationWindow is IMO the thing how it could be possible to adapt
09:13:09 <nh1402w> to start with I would suggest not have a draggable slider in the middle, and literally just have the two apps side by side
09:13:15 <nh1402w> for a proof of concept
09:13:39 <nh1402w> but we would need to figure out how to initiate and then stop splitscreen multitasking
09:14:03 <r0kk3rz> the ios method was fairly slick
09:14:07 <locusf> drag a window on multitasking screen on top of another?
09:14:42 <nh1402w> so initiate it from the homescreen, with one those app covers being draggable?
09:14:49 <eekkelund_> locusf +1
09:14:59 <locusf> yeah
09:15:00 <nh1402w> drag one on top of another and then it loads both in split mode?
09:15:16 <locusf> well there is just window resizing really
09:15:36 <locusf> the event consumer is responsible of the resizing
09:15:41 <eekkelund_> keyboard behaviour^
09:15:50 <locusf> event here being the end of the drag gesture
09:16:04 <locusf> oh shite yes
09:16:05 <locusf> thats going to be a problem
09:16:32 <nh1402w> doesn't the keyboard just draw over the whole screen
09:16:35 <locusf> because the keyboard has to then resize both of those windows
09:16:43 <locusf> not really, its a separate overlay
09:17:25 <locusf> also a window btw
09:17:39 <eekkelund_> now it pushes active ApplicationWindow upwards
09:17:46 <nh1402w> that's what I mean, on android for example, if you have portrait split mode, it opens and draws as it normally would, if you want to type something in the top app the keyboard draws on top of the bottom app, almost completely.
09:18:10 <locusf> ok
09:18:44 <nh1402w> then landscape, it takes over the whole screen
09:19:05 <nh1402w> with a large textbox at the top and the keyboard for the rest.
09:19:25 * tbr pops in and waves
09:20:01 <nh1402w> r0kk3rz: what's the ios method?
09:20:35 <eekkelund_> easier said that done:D but ofc doable. and in the future if we are going to use qVirtualKeyboard, that has some own issues also
09:20:39 <r0kk3rz> they pop up one row of the app drawer, and you drag the icon into a highlighted slot on the screen
09:21:16 <r0kk3rz> of horizontal split of 1/2 1/4 .etc
09:21:37 <locusf> is the app already running?
09:21:59 <r0kk3rz> its ios, so probably not
09:22:20 <locusf> yeah, figures
09:22:30 <r0kk3rz> it might not really fit proper multitasking, but it did take all of about 2 sec for ash to demonstrate it
09:22:40 <r0kk3rz> no long presses or faffing between screens
09:22:58 <nh1402w> how do you initiate it in ios then?
09:23:16 <r0kk3rz> like i just explained
09:23:54 <nh1402w> I meant how does that pop up, don't you need to initiate that somehow"they pop up one row of the app drawer"
09:24:24 <r0kk3rz> swipe up from bottom like on sfos
09:25:02 <nh1402w> fair enough
09:25:49 <nh1402w> which approach does everyone prefer?, or does someone have any other ideas?
09:26:20 <r0kk3rz> imo get a hacky poc together and we can try a few interaction methods
09:26:56 <r0kk3rz> in general a nemo tablety ui might need some work anyway
09:27:09 <nh1402w> and see which works best based on actual testing, fair enough
09:27:27 <eekkelund_> gestures is also one thing, how to close or swipe to backgroumd etc.
09:27:56 <nh1402w> swipe back to homescreen as one would normally I would imagine
09:28:12 <eekkelund_> r0kk3rz, scaling should be ok. i was workng on it last autumn
09:28:13 <nh1402w> if someone has that event gesture enabled, swipe from right side to go back
09:28:30 <nh1402w> if they don't then swipe from either side
09:29:17 <locusf> whats going to happen in the multitasking view?
09:29:23 <locusf> see one merged window?
09:29:28 <locusf> or two halves
09:29:33 <nh1402w> although the two edges of the apps that meet would need to have the gesture detection disabled
09:29:39 <locusf> the two halves is something that will happen now
09:29:57 <nh1402w> we could have an icon that represents the split view on the two apps that are in that mode
09:30:10 <r0kk3rz> hmmm, would you want virtual desktop style compositions?
09:30:27 <locusf> okay
09:30:36 <r0kk3rz> again its hard to really know without using the thing
09:30:36 <locusf> r0kk3rz: whats that?
09:30:41 <r0kk3rz> and getting annoyed about stuff
09:30:59 <locusf> yeah
09:31:14 <r0kk3rz> locusf: like on gnome/kde, you have a 'virtual desktop' which keeps all the windows and positions .etc
09:31:44 <locusf> ok
09:31:47 <locusf> haven't used that feature much
09:31:54 <r0kk3rz> yeah neither really
09:32:04 <nh1402w> would you want workspaces too, so have certain apps be in split mode, and still have others open without
09:32:22 <r0kk3rz> im leaning towards more an webos style card metaphor
09:33:02 <nh1402w> r0kk3rz: I'm not really sure what that is either...
09:33:19 <r0kk3rz> it'll fit with the current homescreen better, but there's probably some edge cases that will be clunky
09:34:24 <r0kk3rz> like, we will have to handle multiscreening an app already running on the homescreen, and launching an app from the drawer
09:34:49 <r0kk3rz> or from events view...
09:36:38 <nh1402w> what show the apps covers as normal, and have a notification saying to go back to splitview?
09:37:10 <r0kk3rz> no
09:37:30 <r0kk3rz> simply, you're running in single app mode and you want to splitview
09:37:48 <r0kk3rz> you might want to splitview from those 3 places depending on the stuation
09:38:03 <locusf> yeah
09:38:13 <locusf> open up the sms you just got in split view
09:38:20 <r0kk3rz> exactly
09:38:53 <locusf> which would be super useful btw
09:41:13 <nh1402w> well it's approaching a full hour now, so where do we go from here
09:41:32 <schmittlauch> are there screenshots of current Glacier multitasking UX available? Haven't really used it so far
09:41:36 <r0kk3rz> well someone needs to dig into lipstick and make it do stuff :P
09:41:56 <r0kk3rz> schmittlauch: its more or less the same as sailfish
09:42:29 <nh1402w> yes, that was my understanding, it has the same app covers and gestures as sailfish, although I've only seen old videos
09:42:44 <locusf> nope
09:42:44 <nh1402w> just looks different
09:42:45 <schmittlauch> r0kk3rz: question is: has it the concept of active covers, too, or is the minimized view just a small version of the app UI?
09:42:51 <locusf> no interactive covers
09:42:52 <locusf> just previews
09:43:07 <nh1402w> oh right
09:43:16 <r0kk3rz> for the most part 'active covers' is a fairly useless idea
09:43:23 <r0kk3rz> ive never really used them
09:43:40 <schmittlauch> meh. My idea for app covers would've been keeping them as is, but grouping them visually together
09:43:45 <nh1402w> what those buttons, to load certain parts of the app from the cover?
09:44:16 <schmittlauch> r0kk3rz: I use them heavily and have been really worried of SFOS reducing them to mostly one.
09:44:29 <r0kk3rz> schmittlauch: to do what?
09:44:41 <schmittlauch> nh1402w: yep, especially useful for media players (podcast clients) and social media clients
09:45:41 <r0kk3rz> media players is probably better handled as a special case
09:46:00 <r0kk3rz> manually refreshing social media clients sounds like a pita :)
09:46:16 <r0kk3rz> unless you really like micromanaging things i guess
09:46:50 <schmittlauch> r0kk3rz: not if you have multiple of them. Also, refreshing or composing new stuff is quite useful, especially if the app is in another (deeply-buried view) otherwise, as a kind of quick access
09:47:03 <schmittlauch> but as Glaicer doesn't have these, it's not relevant here
09:48:03 <r0kk3rz> thats a problem for the apps own workflow
09:48:55 <nh1402w> so who's going to do what, and when should the next meeting be.
09:49:35 <schmittlauch> the relevant difference between having a special minimized cover or just the downscaled app UI is that covers are not affected by geometry changes of the app being split, while the minviews are.
09:50:05 <nh1402w> I'll look into the lipstick code, to get a feel of what's going on and how it does things.
09:51:24 <nh1402w> but that'll take time, for me anyway
09:52:29 <r0kk3rz> eekkelund: you guys sorted out the glacier homescreen install on sfos?
09:52:30 <nh1402w> how is everyone for times, is every two weeks alright?
09:53:13 <nh1402w> being (mainly) every week the community meeting isn't on.
09:53:17 <locusf> just merged  the lockscreen fix
09:53:43 <locusf> so if neochapay has his hooks in order it should work in 2.1.3 as well
09:54:09 <r0kk3rz> ah cool, i'll install it on the sonytab tonight and see what it looks like :)
09:54:12 <eekkelund> r0kk3rz, should be possible now. I have to clean little bit m2ko's code before PR can be approved
09:55:10 <eekkelund> locusf, oook, I will create ne PR for cleaning the code then :D
09:55:20 <locusf> the 2 dbus stuffs?
09:55:24 <nh1402w> is this one of the places we would need to modify or am I looking in the wrong place https://git.merproject.org/mer-core/lipstick/blob/master/src/compositor/windowmodel.cpp
09:55:42 <locusf> the compositor qml in glacier
09:56:01 <locusf> I'd avoid patching lipstick  as long as possible
09:56:56 <r0kk3rz> nh1402w: yeah every two weeks is ok, you should get nemo running on Nokius sonytab :P
09:58:42 <nh1402w> well in two weeks is the community meeting, as it's delayed due to MWC
09:59:04 <r0kk3rz> thats fine, pick another time that week
09:59:32 <locusf> yeah
09:59:38 <nh1402w> r0kk3rz: tbf I should get nemo running on *something* I'll probably end up putting it on the n5
10:00:43 <nh1402w> how is Wednesday 7th March 2018 - 09:00 UTC for everyone?
10:01:21 <locusf> wfm
10:01:42 <locusf> thanks for calling us in
10:01:49 <locusf> would have  completely forgotten about this
10:02:59 <nh1402w> I suppose for those that haven't already, we all should get nemo running on a device by the next meeting
10:03:02 <r0kk3rz> nh1402w: it really shouldnt be difficult to get the sonytab running, its basically the same as mine :P
10:05:01 <nh1402w> #info next meeting will be held on March 7th 2018 at 09:00 UTC
10:06:06 <nh1402w> I'll try and promote the meeting better for next time
10:06:53 <nh1402w> #endmeeting