Tuesday, 2012-10-23

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chriadamgood morning03:25
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KypeliI wonder how I would be able to check if w00t got the latest stuff in nemo-qml-plugin?05:31
w00tcheck OBS05:33
w00t(https://build.pub.meego.com/package/files?package=nemo-qml-plugins&project=CE%3AMW%3AShared says yes)05:34
KypeliYeah, that would be the thought as well. For for a person that never used Git, I would be like saying "use Git" :)05:34
Kypeliw00t: Cool, thanks!05:34
Kypeli"it would be"05:35
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khertan2Hello !09:17
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rcg-workhi Khertan_works09:29
Khertan_workspolitical question : i ve made a tool that build a python apps to create source package for obs, a debian .dsc, a debian .changes and sources tar.gz, recently i ve added the generation of a .spec file, so obs build deb and rpm package09:31
Khertan_worksnow the problem is the .changes09:31
faenilgood morning guys :)09:31
Khertan_worksfor buildbot for nemo it s require a format, that isn't the same for debian :)09:32
rcg-work"morning" faenil ;P09:32
Khertan_worksso i should create two package in obs which are the same just for specifying depending on target only the .changes files09:33
faenilrcg-work, just back from uni :P09:33
Khertan_worksdid you see any work arround to prevent doing that ?09:33
rcg-workfaenil, hehe, right, just kidding :)09:33
Khertan_worksmorning faenil09:33
faenilrcg-work, :D09:33
faenilmorning Khertan_works :)09:33
Sfiet_Konstantinmorn faenil09:33
faenilyo Sfiet_Konstantin09:33
Khertan_workshello Sfiet_Konstantin09:33
Sfiet_Konstantinhi Khertan_works09:33
rcg-workKhertan_works, personally i don't see any obvious workaround... but maybe the obs gurus in here have some brilliant idea ;)09:34
rcg-workhey Sfiet_Konstantin09:34
Sfiet_Konstantinthe number of hi to be said is (n-1)!09:34
Khertan_works* 2kPI09:34
Sfiet_Konstantin2 * n*(n-1)09:34
Khertan_works* K * PI09:35
rcg-workyou do the math.. i'll have to work09:35
Sfiet_Konstantinexp(i pi) + 1 = 0, the perfect formula09:35
Khertan_workswhere K is the Boltzmann constant09:35
faenilSfiet_Konstantin, yeah math nerds formula :P09:36
Sfiet_Konstantinoh come on, maths are pretty09:36
Sfiet_Konstantinsometimes, sexy09:36
faenilI agree09:36
Khertan_worksSfiet_Konstantin: until you need to implement them in code09:36
Sfiet_Konstantinhum ... computational maths can be pretty too09:37
Sfiet_Konstantinfirst, you need to learn how to love blas09:37
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Venemogood morning everyone11:09
Venemow00t: ping11:09
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faenilVenemo, morning11:11
Venemohey faenil  :)11:11
Venemowhat's up?11:11
faenilnothing in particular :)11:12
faenilwhat about you11:12
Venemolots of work/stress, but I haven't given up on contributing to Nemo either :P11:12
faenilgood boy :)11:13
faenilI'm surrounded by Jollians here, I need some neutral colleague :D11:15
VenemoI'm heavily biased11:16
Venemonot very neutral :P11:16
faenilyou misunderstood :)11:16
Stskeepsjollaians, nemoians, not much difference :P11:17
Venemowell, I don't work for Jolla, if that's what you meant11:19
Venemobut I still would be happy to see them succeed11:19
faenilVenemo, yes :)11:19
faenilsame here11:19
faenilbbl ;)11:20
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Venemohey cybette :) nice to see you around11:32
the-boss`phaeron lbt sage stskeeps SR#7112 waiting for review at https://build.pub.meego.com//request/show/711211:49
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the-boss`phaeron lbt sage stskeeps SR#7112 Accepted promotion request12:01
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Mric_hello,  I would to help to nemo project by translating the current OS in French. Some people told me it would be a good idea. I have no idea where to start ... if someone could help me ?12:10
the-boss`phaeron lbt sage stskeeps SR#7113 Rejected promotion request12:13
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the-boss`phaeron lbt sage stskeeps SR#7114 waiting for review at https://build.pub.meego.com//request/show/711412:20
Mric_anyone knows how the language is intergrated in the OS ? I guess I would have to translate the qml file,right ?12:21
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VenemoMric_: depends on the app that you want to translate12:36
Mric_Venemo: I would like to translate the OS itself, I have notice that that currently the 2 langages are british and russian12:37
VenemoMric_: what do you mean by "the OS itself"? the OS itself is just a bunch of apps thrown together and a home screen to launch them12:37
Venemolast time I checked, the home screen wasn't translateable (we're working on that)12:38
Venemoas for the apps, the process usually depends on the app.12:39
Mric_yes but  like the settings ... and also I would like to add another keyboard12:39
Venemosettings is just another app called meegotouchc12:39
Venemofor other keyboards, yup, that would be nice12:40
Venemofor something that uses Qt and Qt's translation file formats, you can just translate the translation files and that's it :)12:40
Venemofor adding new layouts to the keyboard, you would need to ask someone who is more knowledgeable than me though12:40
specialSage_: ping12:41
Venemohey special  :)12:42
VenemoMric_: this is how a Qt translation file looks, for example: http://gitorious.org/colorful-apps/puzzle-master/blobs/master/translations/puzzle-master_hu_HU.ts12:43
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Mric_Venemo: cool, so i'm going to try to add the french keyboard which will basically be  a azerty keyboard + accents and change 'meegotouch' in french ... how does it sound ?12:43
VenemoMric_: I don't speak French, but it sounds nice :) I'm unfamiliar with keyboard customization though12:44
faenilMric_, special could tell you the difficulty degree :)12:44
specialwe don't have any sane way to add other keyboard layouts for the QML keyboard right now.12:45
faenilthere you go, boom12:45
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specialthey're somewhat complicated QML (see https://gitorious.org/maliit/maliit-plugins/blobs/master/nemo-keyboard/org/nemomobile/EnglishPortrait.qml) and there's nothing to allow switching languages12:46
Mric_special: alright ... so what do you think ? I have a very basic QML language so probably to hard but I will have a look12:46
specialyet. I'm sure there will be12:47
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VenemoMric_: if you are unsure of your QML skills, I suggest you wait until there is a sane way of switching and customizing it12:48
Mric_special: so basically I can't do it ... I guess only translating the 'meegotouch' app is not very usefull, or what do you think ?12:49
faenilwhat's the meegotouch app? you mean the settings panel?12:50
VenemoMric_: the settings app is called meegotouchcp (sorry, I was missing the p, sorry)12:51
VenemoMric_: there are lots of other apps you could look at though: https://github.com/nemomobile12:51
Mric_yes I mean the setting app 'meegotouchcp'12:52
faenilMric_, meegotouchcp will eventually be rewritten using QML, so there's no point in translating it, at the moment :)12:52
Venemofaenil: it will?12:52
faenilVenemo, well, the plan is to get rid of MTF app, isn't it12:53
Venemofaenil: last time I checked, noone cared about that. but I'm happy that the opinion changed12:53
faenilVenemo, we've been rewriting apps in QML for the last year... xD12:54
Venemofaenil: yeah, but last time I asked about that ugly settings app I was told not to care.12:55
Venemobut anyway, I'll be happy to see it gone12:55
faenilVenemo, problem is the settings app is too big, afaik12:56
faenilthat is why we're not taking care of that atm...12:56
faenilat least that's what I know12:56
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the-boss`phaeron lbt sage stskeeps SR#7116 waiting for review at https://build.pub.meego.com//request/show/711612:57
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Mric_so I can't really help right now ?12:58
Mric_btw thx for your answers12:58
faenilloving how unreliable wifi in Uni is12:59
tadzikI know the feeling12:59
Stskeepsfaenil: iwconfig wlan0 power of13:00
tadzikit's a bit ironic how McDonalds is better at maintaining wifi than technical university :)13:00
tadziknot the same amount of traffic, I know13:01
faenilStskeeps, not on Nemo ;) it was just a rant :P13:03
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Stskeepsyou don't run nemo as your default OS? what kind of faith is that ;p13:03
tadzikI ran nemo as my primary OS on Uni a week ago or so13:04
tadzikfor half an hour, before the battery was drained ;)13:04
faenilStskeeps, ahaha :D13:04
Venemotadzik: on what device?13:05
tadzikVenemo: N90013:05
Venemoit shouldn't be THAT bad.13:05
tadzikmaybe it has something to do with the fact that the battery status indicator is not worky13:06
tadzikalways shows it as Almost Empty, like this: [|    ]13:06
Venemothat sounds awful13:06
Stskeepsthat's fixed now i think13:07
tadzikyes, I cried myself to sleep when I saw it for the first time ;)13:07
tadzikit's been like this for the last 3-ish releases for me13:07
w00tStskeeps: fixed for n950 and n9, the n900 still has some horrible binary-only plugin i think13:11
Khertan_worksdoes the last released img works on your n900 ?13:11
Khertan_workslook like the display is compressed to one line at the top of the screen for me :)13:12
Khertan_works(previous img works)13:12
faenilStskeeps, was the blank screen terminal bug fixed?13:12
Venemohey w00t :)13:13
Stskeepsin VM? yes but not sure if in any released images13:13
w00tVenemo: hi13:14
faenilStskeeps, damn, wanted to use that as an excuse for the reason I don't have Nemo as the main notebook OS ;P13:14
VenemoNemo as a notebook OS? hmm13:15
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Mric_special: sorry for coming back, but If I woud rewritte this keyboard (https://gitorious.org/maliit/maliit-plugins/blobs/master/nemo-keyboard/org/nemomobile/EnglishPortrait.qml) with the french charachters would it help for the future ? I understand that righ now it is too hard to implemented13:23
specialMric_: not at the moment; it's going through a lot of other changes right now. Eventually we'll have a proper way to do keyboard layouts13:24
Mric_special: alright thanks for the answer. Do you know any 'stupid' job where I could help by any change?13:25
Mric_special: *chance13:25
Khertan_worksspecial: what s the problem with it ? look like it can be changed easily ?13:25
faenilVenemo, via VM :P13:26
specialKhertan_works: I haven't looked into/thought about layouts, I've just been getting the keyboard itself to behave decently13:26
specialbut there is nothing right now that would handle multiple layouts for the QML keyboard.13:27
the-boss`phaeron lbt sage stskeeps SR#7116 Accepted promotion request13:27
Khertan_worksspecial: i didn't have nemo here but the russian is working ? when changing from prefs ?13:28
Khertan_works    //TODO - loader here?        //RussianPortrait {}13:29
Khertan_workslook like not :)13:29
specialyeah, it's never referenced13:29
Khertan_worksindeed :)13:30
Khertan_worksanyway it s didn't hurt to create the layout, and when loader will be available it ll be useable13:30
w00tspecial: are your changes in a release yet?13:30
Mric_special: You probalby know better than me ... But I was going to say that if you look in the keyboard folder their is 2 keyboards ... (russianportrait.qml and englishportrait.qml)13:30
specialKhertan_works: Mric_: at the moment, I have a bunch of ongoing changes to all of that code (see https://gitorious.org/maliit/maliit-plugins/merge_requests/78), so it wouldn't be a great time to copy13:31
specialalso; I think we can do better than copying a couple hundred lines of QML for every keyboard layout.13:31
specialthat said13:32
specialif you're interested, by all means, feel welcome to look into handling keyboard layouts, I'd be glad to assist13:32
Khertan_worksspecial: yeah two qml file by language as layout isn't probably the best way to handle layout13:36
Khertan_worksbut i'm far to be a expert in this domain13:36
faenilthey have to be read from external files13:37
faenilwe just have to decide all the parameters13:37
faenilthus deciding the structure of the kb layout files :)13:38
faenilsomething like13:38
Khertan_worksoh ... while some people are here, i ve a question about obs13:38
faenilnumber or rows, number of chars on the first row, number of chars on the second row13:39
w00tspecial: take a look at the C++ plugin13:39
w00tthey have an xml format description I think13:39
specialw00t: I'm not volunteering :p13:39
faenilbut I don't know anything about maliit, so I don't know how flexible it is :)13:39
w00tspecial: didn't say you were13:39
faenilw00t, great, it's already there :)13:39
w00tbut you're helping13:39
w00tso help guide people in the right direction :p13:39
faenilspecial, he cought you :P13:39
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Khertan_worksi ve a tool which create source package from a python code, plus a little script, this tool generate a debian .dsc, a .tar.gz, a debian .changes and a .spec so in same package obs create a deb for distribution using deb and a rpm for distribution using rpm13:40
Khertan_worksnow the problem is the .changes file, it s require a special format for debian13:40
XruxaMric_: special: there was way to switch between layouts, the russian one worked just fine13:40
Khertan_worksand an other one for CE:App/Shared13:40
specialXruxa: did it look the same as the english one?13:41
Xruxaspecial: nope13:41
specialXruxa: it's probably switching to the default maliit keyboard (not the QML one) for non-english, then13:41
Xruxaspecial: looked like this https://dl.dropbox.com/u/42376952/20000102-041237.png13:41
specialgood to know that it works13:41
Khertan_worksdid you see any workarround to resolve that before i create too separate package in OBS with same sources but a different .changes13:41
Mric_special: I would love to help, but I shoud assit you and the opposit ;)13:43
Xruxaspecial: been long time ago, things change. The switching IIRC was working by sliding the keyboard layout to side, but one has to be lucky to hit the space between keys AFAIK13:43
Mric_Xruxa: so I understand right ... it is working but it is not very coding effiency ?13:43
specialXruxa: hmm, I doubt that works anymore.13:44
specialmeaning, in current nem13:44
XruxaMric_: Well, English and Russian have different layouts, and those are position and size hardocoded, they share graphics and buttons and such13:44
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specialfor QML at least, the russian keyboard isn't ever loaded and there's no side-to-side swiping13:45
* Xruxa would need to charge N950 to give it a go ... 13:45
Xruxaspecial: it was there, maybe I didn't commit everything to maliit GIT13:46
Xruxaspecial: your are right, it is not there, see PortraitVKB.qml, commented out the switching13:50
Mric_Xura: sorry for newbie question, but what is the goal with the keyboards ? creating the different layouts for the different langages and the rest shared ?13:50
w00twe really shouldn't be defining layouts in the keyboards, long term13:50
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w00totherwise it's going to explode pretty out of control13:51
XruxaMric_:  it was just a test. Typically one can get around latin languages with 2-5 layouts. Cyrillic and such are different case13:51
faenilmust be easy for other people to add layouts too13:52
faenilso it can't be in QML code, imho13:52
tanukSage_: pulseaudio 2.1 was accepted to Mer. Is now the right time to submit pulseaudio stuff to Nemo?13:53
XruxaQML as as good/bad as other ways of doing it I have seen so far. Cryptinc config files, XMLs or QMLs - who cares :)13:53
w00tXruxa: doing it in QML means copy-pasting the implementation into each seperate keyboard, which means you get to fix bugs in each seperate keyboard - i'd say that's pretty much the definition of bad, so i care :)13:54
specialw00t: to be fair, most of the code can still be shared13:54
specialbut I still agree, QML is not the best way to define a keyboard.13:55
w00tspecial: ok, then we'll just do that13:55
specialI'm not saying anything about what we'll do13:55
w00tspecial: you're the new maintainer of nemo-keyboard, of course you are13:56
specialas I said before, I haven't looked at layouts, I just happen to be peripherially involved in the keyboard13:56
w00the who last touched it, owns it, etc13:56
specialah, but I'm a clueless american13:56
specialI know nothing of other languages or cultures, I wouldn't know where to begin with keyboard layouts.13:56
Mric_Xruxa: I defenetively the wrong person to undertake this project ... my knowledge is too poor.13:56
specialw00t: you, on the other hand, use a norwegian keyboard too..13:57
XruxaMric_: I defenetively the wrong person to undertake this project ... spend too much time biking and drinking :)13:57
w00tXruxa: haha13:57
w00tthat just means you're the perfect candidate13:57
w00tyou have a real world knowledge of mobile keyboards in action13:57
Mric_Xruxa: this is where I could help you ... I know french, spanish , italian, and a bit of german enough to make the keyboard layouts13:58
Mric_Xruxa: haha I'm sure you can manage it ... ;)13:59
XruxaMric_: I guess anyone with QML skills can generalize the English layout and then we come up with a way to supply it with the 'characters' for those keys - after all that is like 6 lines of QML/JS constants13:59
Khertan_worksand i can be the guy which introduce nasty bugs13:59
VenemoKhertan_works: hehe14:00
Khertan_worksXruxa: and some little modification for some specifics need14:00
Xruxawhy do I always pop in here to just to see work coming my direction ...14:01
Mric_Xruxa: Are you the man ? ;)14:01
StskeepsXruxa: it does explain all the idlers here14:02
the-boss`phaeron lbt sage stskeeps SR#7118 waiting for review at https://build.pub.meego.com//request/show/711814:02
Xruxathis is what slow websites do to people, they go check IRC14:02
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Venemospecial: you don't need to know anything about other cultures to make different keyboard layouts14:04
Venemospecial: it is enough to know that now everyone lives in America and some weird people out there use different layouts14:04
specialVenemo: that was just a desperate attempt to get back at w00t by passing it off to him :p14:05
Mric_Venemo: haha14:05
faenildoes anyone know maui? maui-project.org14:06
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Xruxafaenil: the visuals at the webpage are very similar to the ones at http://qwazix.github.com/nemomobile.github.com/14:09
Venemowhoever thought these icons are a good idea? http://qwazix.github.com/nemomobile.github.com/#iconography14:11
Venemothey look very ugly14:11
Stskeepsnot terribly constructive comment, go a bit deeper? :P14:12
* faenil wonders why his name was highlighted :D14:12
the-boss`phaeron lbt sage stskeeps SR#7119 waiting for review at https://build.pub.meego.com//request/show/711914:17
VenemoStskeeps: well, when I look at them, some thoughts come to mind which are too harsh even for a public IRC channel14:18
Venemoas I already said many times, I don't think we need a border or a background around our icons at all. especially not an ugly and bevelled one.14:19
VenemoI would prefer simple icons, like in Fremantle14:19
Venemothey should be elegant and not overly cluttered.14:19
XruxaVenemo: +1 for now, unless we change visual style14:20
Venemowhatever visual element is not necessary, it should be removed14:20
w00tthere's really no point fighting it on IRC, either you come up with the artwork and explanation for a counterproposal and convince qwazix and mruk, or you accept that you don't win that fight14:20
w00tjust like you do a piece of code you disagree with14:20
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Venemow00t: I'm not fighting. but if anyone sees this, they likely won't want to try out Nemo.14:21
w00tVenemo: well, both of the people working on design apparently disagree with you, and afaik both of them are actual designers14:22
w00tso i'm not sure i agree with your assessment14:22
Venemothere are lots of actual designers who agree with me14:22
Venemobut none of them work on open source projects14:22
w00tthey aren't working on nemo14:22
Venemothe UX will be themeable14:22
the-boss`phaeron lbt sage stskeeps SR#7118 Accepted promotion request14:22
w00tlike i said, if you want, come up with a counterproposal14:22
w00tbut saying "this is shit" doesn't benefit anyone in any way, and it hurts the motivation of the people working on it14:22
w00thow would you like it if I said "your code is shit, but I won't patch it"?14:23
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* Stskeeps anticipates many different uis based on nemo middleware/toolkits14:23
VenemoI think I presented a bunch of useful arguments about a month ago14:23
w00targuments aren't useful14:23
Venemoall of them seem to have been accepted at the time14:23
w00tin a meritocracy, doing things is useful14:23
Venemobut as I said, even the default home screen will be themeable14:23
w00tit already is14:23
w00ticons are part of themes14:23
w00tif you don't like it, install a new icon theme14:24
VenemoI was referring to the other UI elements as well14:24
w00twallpaper comes from the theme14:24
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faenilchanged wifi ap...14:26
* w00t glues faenil to the channel14:26
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the-boss`phaeron lbt sage stskeeps SR#7119 Accepted promotion request14:31
w00txsacha: o/14:31
faenilwelcome xsacha :)14:32
faenilyou can ask your questions regarding nemomobile's focus and stuff here ;)14:32
xsachaso is there a build for my phone? :)14:32
faenilxsacha: which phone?14:33
faenilthen yes, you can put Mer+Nemo on it14:35
xsachais there a wiki/instructions page?14:36
xsachathis one? https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Nemo/Installing14:36
faenildidn't know N9 didn't have a dualboot solution working :/14:39
xsachaive been dual-booting for quite a while14:39
xsachai was actually interested to know if there's a tri-boot available14:39
faenilI don't know about N9...I have N950 and I'm using dualboot with Harm + Nemo14:39
xsachai currently dual-boot meego and android14:40
xsachaby the way, which image should i be using: http://repository.maemo.org/meego/Nemo/0.20120920.1.NEMO.2012-10-07.1/images/14:40
faenilyeah I think so14:41
xsachai've forgotten how to do this but there's some trick you have to do when flashing the kernel so that you dont get the 'your warranty is void' message every time you startup14:42
xsachathat thing is annoying because it takes another 5 seconds to boot up14:42
faenilI have that :)14:42
Stskeepsi consider it a mark of pride14:43
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xsachai think it'd be useful to use this: http://forum.nitdroid.com/index.php?topic=685.0 (touchscreen dual-boot selection)14:46
xsachalooks pretty simple to mod to tri-boot14:48
faenilxsacha: feel free to contribute :)14:49
faenilmarquiz is the guy who worked on the current modified bootloader14:49
xsachatri-boot: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bz-tRdC0IX414:51
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xsachahere's the part to remove warranty boot message: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=8465914:57
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xsachafaenil: you should use this: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=8318915:05
xsachamuch better instructions, has triboot too15:05
faenilxsacha:  :O)15:06
faenilxsacha: :)15:06
xsachathe touchscreen one was better though15:07
faenilthat's basically the same method15:08
faenilplus dualboot once you choose harmattan15:08
faenilbut it's marquiz's bootloader15:09
xsachayeah the vol up/vol down one15:10
xsachathe installation is explained a bit better15:10
faenilis it15:11
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faenilback in 1 hour ;) cya15:14
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the-boss`phaeron lbt sage stskeeps SR#7120 Rejected promotion request15:15
the-boss`phaeron lbt sage stskeeps SR#7120 Rejected promotion request15:15
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the-boss`phaeron lbt sage stskeeps SR#7121 waiting for review at https://build.pub.meego.com//request/show/712115:20
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the-boss`phaeron lbt sage stskeeps SR#7122 waiting for review at https://build.pub.meego.com//request/show/712215:21
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the-boss`phaeron lbt sage stskeeps SR#7121 Rejected promotion request15:40
the-boss`phaeron lbt sage stskeeps SR#7122 Rejected promotion request15:40
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the-boss`phaeron lbt sage stskeeps SR#7123 waiting for review at https://build.pub.meego.com//request/show/712315:50
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the-boss`phaeron lbt sage stskeeps SR#7124 waiting for review at https://build.pub.meego.com//request/show/712415:51
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the-boss`phaeron lbt sage stskeeps SR#7123 Accepted promotion request16:02
the-boss`phaeron lbt sage stskeeps SR#7124 Accepted promotion request16:03
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Mric_Xruxa: any new though about the keyboard? should I come back in few days/weeks and when the default layout in written I could only add the french keyboard ?17:53
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XruxaMric_: I will be traveling till 2.11. You might not want to wait for me ;)18:29
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Mric_Xruxa: can you recommend someone that could be the actual programmer and I'm just helping me ? (I have time but not too much I have to go to uni and study ...)18:31
Mric_Xrura: *helping him18:33
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Mric_|2nobody intersted ?18:42
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phaeronMric_|2: not everyone looks all the time on IRC, please send your suggestions and ideas to the mailing list18:52
XruxaMric_|2: well, you can take the current English and Russian KB layouts and see on top of which one, and how, would you layout characters for French keyboard18:53
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Mric_|2phaeron: Xruxa: yep I'll do that I will think about it and than when I have something will expose it.  btw what is the e-mail list ?19:11
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phaeronI think everyone uses the mer mailing list ?19:13
Xruxamer-general@lists.merproject.org ? Where did Nemo list go?19:13
Mric_|2Xruxa: phaeron: so by mailling this e-mail all the developers are going to recieved my E-mail ?19:15
phaeronXruxa: I don't remember if there was one ..19:15
phaeronone second I will check19:15
phaeronyeah the thread about nemo artwork was on merproject mailing list19:16
Xruxaokay then19:16
Mric_|2Xruxa: phaeron: thanks, btw this is probably a stupid question but could nemo ever ever support big apps like 'skype' for eg. Skype would not support officialy nemo but could some talented developers develop an app ?19:20
XruxaMric_|2: I do not think there is a limit. Get user base, developers will come.19:21
Mric_|2Xruxa:yes I agree with you but not totally ;) Take Nokia for example has a big user base but less applications are develop for symbian .. (for example if I take skype again, the ios, android user have video but not the symbian users) (but maybe this is political to push user to use WP).19:26
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