Friday, 2012-12-14

phaeronqdbus --system --literal /com/nokia/time
specialthanks :p00:00
phaerondbus is so redundant00:01
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blam_sledges: I wasn't there (asleep at that hour), let me see01:00
blam_w00t: lipstick-example-home/qml/Launcher.qml uses a GridView, not a PathView. Or am I looking at the wrong file?01:02
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faeniliekku, morning04:14
faenilI still have to go to bed :/04:14
iekkui would love to04:15
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the-boss`phaeron lbt sage stskeeps SR#7535 waiting for review at
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PMGw00t, Sage, spiiroin: some packaging-related changes to timed:
PMGSage: did not put systemd configuration behind config flags, do you still think that would be the way to go?07:11
PMGIn addition, did not come up with a way to do this symbolic link in pro file, kept it in spec: ln -s ../%{name}.service %{buildroot}/lib/systemd/system/{name}.service07:14
PMGMy problem with the symlink  in (server.)pro file is that the $$(DESTDIR) variable is empty at the time when the ln command is defined, causing the link to be created outside rpmbuild buildroot (which fails)07:16
PMGspecial: ^07:16
specialnot worried about config flag personally07:16
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specialAard asked a similar question the other day.. I'm not aware of a way to add specific commands at 'make install' time with qmake :|07:19
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chriadamspecial: see the bit about "execute a series of commands"07:21
PMGspecial: I experimented with different things with the pro file, and came to the same conclusion07:22
specialPMG: see chriadam's link, seems like that may work?07:23
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PMGspecial, chriadam: will try!07:23
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PMGspecial, chriadam: adding extra or commands to the target does not fix my problem. I have a installs like this: systemd.path = $$(DESTDIR)/lib/systemd/system07:36
PMGAnd I would like to do a symlink that uses the path from $$(DESTDIR)07:36
specialyou should be able to use $$(DESTDIR) in a .extras command, though?07:37
PMGunix:systemd.extra = echo $$(DESTDIR) or systemd.commands = echo $$(DESTDIR) will appear in Makefile as plain "echo"07:37
PMGTried the same with the actual ln command, with same results07:38
PMG^ similar results :)07:38
specialah, did you want $(DESTDIR)?07:40
special$$(x) is from the environment at qmake time; $(x) is from the environment during make07:41
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PMGspecial: I could create the symlink by using $(INSTALL_ROOT), which is by magic (from pro-file POV) available at make install time. Not sure if that is the correct way to go, though.09:13
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Sageoh, there is still build ongoing in cobs09:29
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phaeronyeah somehow it has become slower ..09:33
phaeronor I think next_ got triggered first09:33
phaeronand blocked all latest _09:33
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sledgesgood -Friday- morning!10:09
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sledgesSage, it was aggelos_ who experienced vm problems. Haven't checked myself recently10:17
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faenilo/ morning!10:22
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sledgeswho's unnamed on etherpad atm? ;)
* sledges off to lunch12:01
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sledgessorted and commented on etherpad12:52
sledgesthanks to whoever put brilliant "enjoy the freedom" and changed "mold" to "get" - very nice!12:53
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sledgesmoin aggelos_ :) are you from North Germany? ;)12:57
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aggelos_isn't moin international by now? on irc at least :)12:58
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sledges:)) it probably has become13:01
aggelos_sledges: btw, I ordered the n9, but I couldn't get the nemo image to play well w/ my debian unstable virtualbox13:01
aggelos_the i586-vm image13:01
sledgesstrange aggelos_ we haven't had problems on VMs lately13:03
sledgeswhich vm version are you downloading?13:03
aggelos_and yah, when booting to do the installation, it seems the X server kept getting restarted (as the VT would switch every half a minute or so)13:03
aggelos_I tried these two: nemo-handset-i586-vm-0.20120920.1.NEMO.2012-10-07.1.iso  nemo-handset-i586-vm-0.20121101.1.NEMO.2012-11-08.1.iso13:03
sledgeswere you doing zypper up && zypper ref ?13:03
aggelos_just followed the installation instructions13:04
aggelos_i.e., just ran installer-shell13:04
aggelos_but I didn't have a single clean boot13:04
aggelos_always some process would SIGILL or SIGSEGV13:04
aggelos_usually dozens13:04
aggelos_I had one boot where it was just 113:04
aggelos_using virtualbox 4.1.18-dfsg-1.1 btw13:05
sledgesvirtual box?13:06
sledgesand you followed all instructions: System->Processor->Extended Features: Check 'Enable PAE/NX'13:06
sledgesand does your host CPU support SSSE3 extensions ?13:08
phaeronI thought there were i486 nemo  vms now13:09
phaeronSage: ?13:09
sledgesthere are both flavours, but I remember my i586 not working13:11
sledgeshmmmmmm then that's the problem ;)13:11
sledgesaggelos_, try i48613:12
* sledges just launched my virtualbox - all nemo testing images are i486 ! :D13:12
Sagephaeron: yes i486 is witohut SSE313:13
phaeronwe ain't no meego13:13
sledgesmeans we are meego :D13:14
aggelos_oh my13:14
aggelos_my apologies13:14
sledgesI have ssse3, but i586 wouldn't have worked I remember13:14
aggelos_I had my cpus mixed up13:14
sledgesfor some other reasons back in a day13:14
aggelos_this desktop doesn't do sse3 :(13:14
aggelos_that explains pretty much everything :P13:15
sledgesgreat, job done aggelos_, now onto some good work to do ;)13:15
phaeronunlike meego13:15
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aggelos_should I be getting an X server after booting the image?13:25
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sledgescan't remember now, but you'll surely get one when installed13:30
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aggelos_yah, you don't get X when booting from the image13:36
aggelos_but it's here now :)13:36
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sledgesgood looks (FF OS, as seen in a simulator):
sledgeshow I came across:
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sledgesAard, all swipes in harmattan work fine when phone is on the table, in the car, or any other way not well earthed/capacitised17:15
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phaeronsledges: yes it might have to do with different calibration on lpm mode17:21
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sledgesmm, indepth low-level technical bubbles :) what's lpm ?18:21
phaeronlow power mode18:24
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Sagephaeron: 7535 seems stuck to me19:28
phaeronwill look19:28
Sagealso 750719:28
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the-boss`phaeron lbt sage stskeeps SR#7535 Accepted promotion request19:33
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the-boss`phaeron lbt sage stskeeps SR#7507 waiting for review at
Stskeepsqwazix: want to discuss technical merits of n7?19:46
Stskeepswell, as in, a maemo like stack on n719:46
Stskeepsi've been there before in my life, so :)19:47
qwazixI've been trying to see if there's interest for that, brought it up in #maemo19:48
qwazixgot mixed responses19:48
qwazixAlso asked smoku if he's interested but he isn't19:48
Stskeepsi think he got a bit burnt with the whole cordia tablet thing and that there wasn't many contributors19:49
Stskeepsso, could you start from the beginning on the proposal, just so we're on same page?19:49
Stskeepsand i'll pitch in what i know19:49
qwazixI've got a nicely formatted mail19:50
Stskeepssure, that works too19:50
Stskeepsi don't follow maemo-* lists anymore, so :P19:50
qwazixwith my thoughts in order, give me an address to send it to19:50
Stskeepsi think my still works but i dont use it anymore :P19:50
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Stskeepsor just carsten.munk@gmail :P19:55
qwazixmail sent (@merproject)19:55
Stskeepsso, rcg has worked on n7 and gotten moslo ported to it and plasma active up19:57
Stskeepsnvidia has a damn good x11 adaptation, with full working dri2 and opengl es219:57
Stskeepsthere's no reason why cordia wouldn't work on it19:57
qwazixThat's why I got excited in the beginning, I hadn't seen rcg's work, but ubuntu runs ok and with hwa so I thought why wouldn't something maemoish19:59
Stskeepsnemo supposedly runs too19:59
qwazixThe guys over at #maemo showed concern that there will be no apps, but every new maemo was like that19:59
Stskeepsdid you ever see w00t's wayland-mantle demo, too?19:59
qwazixhopefully this is going to be the last time we need to start over, having a solid base20:00
Stskeepswell, you can do any sort of ui on top of mer as you know20:00
qwazix(that was the fremantle-like lipstick homescreen?)20:00
qwazixthat would need more effort in porting20:00
Stskeepsthat was one, yeah20:01
Stskeepsthis is x11 though, that video20:01
qwazixIn fact what I love about maemo is that it has both gtk and qt so it makes porting easy20:01
Stskeepsi like maemo too, to some extent, but there's too many closed source frameworks tied into the dependency graph :/20:02
qwazixyou can run virtually anything on it pygtk, pyqt, pyside, qtwidget, qml, html/js, gtk c,20:02
w00tStskeeps: portability too..20:02
lpottermaemo ony got qt after a few years20:02
qwazixI know20:03
qwazixabout the closed bits, they're doing a good job replacing them one by one? takes time though20:04
Stskeepsnot even hildon input framework was sane - we really tried hard in mer times20:04
qwazixfreemangordon suggested we buy hex-ray and decompile the remaining bits so that we can get real maemo on the N720:04
Stskeepsand at some point you realize your stack is ~4-5 years old20:04
qwazixnow even more20:04
qwazixdebian etch isn't it?20:05
Stskeepsa weird mismatch20:05
qwazixNow with all the things going on and the money we need for infra I think this project has to go on ice. Except if I manage to do it myself :)20:06
Stskeepsi wouldn't mind if somebody did a re-invention of the usability and workhorse that the maemo ui was20:06
aggelos_qwazix: decompilation isn't magic20:07
Stskeepsdid you know jolla's chief designer is the guy behind maemo5 ui?20:07
qwazixOr if I find anybody else with a N7 willing to join20:07
w00tqwazix: what infra?20:07
qwazixreally? My expectations grew tenfold just now!20:07
qwazixwith talk being the first to have to be moved20:08
Stskeepsah, in that respect20:08
qwazixin fact we still got 17 days20:08
Stskeepsqwazix: re jolla, martin schuele (chief designer) was principal designer of maemo5 ui, just to fill in the gaps :)20:09
w00t(he's a downright swell guy, too)20:09
* Stskeeps still remembers being in copenhagen and getting shown maemo5 ui on a real device20:09
Stskeepsstripped down homescreen, heh20:10
Stskeepsthey took community in and showed it on devices, no leaks was done20:10
qwazixI hadn't seen even a video of the N900 when I impulse-bought it. I couldn't be more impressed when I first saw the UI20:10
qwazixI was like, WOW!20:11
Stskeepsi kinda miss that community feeling, a mutual trust and real appreciation of community efforts20:12
Stskeepssome of the people i met back then, i now work side by side with20:12
qwazixComparing with 2009 android, iphone and symbian? miles ahead.20:12
Stskeepsyeah.. and then there was a hiccup as things scaled horridly20:13
qwazixImagine having a N920, N940, N960 out in the market during 201020:13
Stskeepsmaemo summit with harmattan design discussions that sounded like it was just around the corner20:14
Stskeeps.. delayed several years20:14
w00tha ha ha.20:14
Stskeepsand ari jaaksi badmouthing tracker on stage..20:15
Stskeepsgood times20:15
w00tStskeeps: is there a video of that?20:15
Stskeepsnot sure20:16
Stskeepsoh, right20:16
qwazixIs there an image or tut or something for mer on the N7 floating around? Google doesn't give me anything.20:16
Stskeepsno video, they forgot to plug in  the @%@% audio20:16
Stskeepsqwazix: ask rcg20:16
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Stskeepsthis is just a good hint of advice from somebody who's been there: develop not towards a certain hardware, join efforts of multiple hardware efforts20:20
Stskeepsand differ only on hw adaptations20:20
qwazixYes that's sane20:20
Stskeepsyou could develop this entire thing in a VM20:21
qwazixYes I was thinking about that, it'll sure be easier20:22
qwazixI'm not so much a low-level guy though, and I'm not sure I can do much more than adapt different processes already done by other people to my cause20:23
Stskeepsyea, hardware adaptation is a different science20:23
Stskeepsui is usually where it's at20:24
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Stskeepsi wish we had qml and lipstick when we were doing old mer :P20:25
qwazixSo my idea is, get a core that already works, find way to get hildon on core, package the thing, port one app from maemo and document process. Publish everything.20:25
qwazixthe "find way to get hildon" part is the scary one20:26
Stskeepsif things go right you could probably just do mer core + n7 adaptation +_ take what's in cordia, go from there20:26
qwazixI tried hard to make it work on harmattan but got nowhere20:26
Stskeepsit's really not rocket science :)20:26
qwazixNo, it's just dependency spaghetti20:26
Stskeepsdid you ever see how mer looks internally? :P20:26
qwazixand braindamaged hildon/gtk maemo_changes20:27
Stskeepsthat's without everything linking to glibc/libgcc and bash for shell script execution20:27
Stskeepsfor the base itself, no qt involved20:28
qwazixInteresting. I was talking about hildon deps, however.20:28
Stskeepsyeah, i know :P20:29
Stskeepshildon's simple compared to this ;)20:29
qwazixand obsolete things like gnome-vfs etcf20:29
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qwazixIt's amazing how everything works so stably in linuxes with so many links. And it's obvious why apple went with "everything bundled together" thing. This would never work on a closed source system, IMO.20:32
Stskeepsand it's not really stable, i call my kind of work as distribution jenga for a reaosn20:33
Stskeepsi thought about it (hildon) for a while as a hobby project but realized that i've always been playing catch-up with those things and it was time to be ahead :P20:34
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Stskeepsand create the next step instead of always trying to take the breadcrumbs from others and make it work20:35
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qwazixTrue. That's the reason I like nemo. But on the other hand I find the possibility to switch sessions and have a hildon-desktop with working desktop grade apps awesome :)20:35
Stskeepsyou could really still do that though20:36
qwazixI'll be afk, got to eat something. Later.20:38
FigureI tought hildon was dead20:43
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the-bossphaeron lbt sage stskeeps SR#7536 waiting for review at
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the-bossphaeron lbt sage stskeeps SR#7537 Rejected promotion request21:42
the-bossphaeron lbt sage stskeeps SR#7538 Rejected promotion request21:46
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the-bossphaeron lbt sage stskeeps SR#7536 Rejected promotion request21:52
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the-bossphaeron lbt sage stskeeps SR#7540 waiting for review at
the-bossphaeron lbt sage stskeeps SR#7539 waiting for review at
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the-bossphaeron lbt sage stskeeps SR#7541 waiting for review at
the-bossphaeron lbt sage stskeeps SR#7542 waiting for review at
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the-bossphaeron lbt sage stskeeps SR#7543 waiting for review at
the-bossphaeron lbt sage stskeeps SR#7544 waiting for review at
the-bossphaeron lbt sage stskeeps SR#7542 Rejected promotion request22:06
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the-bossphaeron lbt sage stskeeps SR#7543 Accepted promotion request22:11
* Sage is flooding a bit sry :)22:12
the-bossphaeron lbt sage stskeeps SR#7545 waiting for review at
the-bossphaeron lbt sage stskeeps SR#7540 Accepted promotion request22:13
the-bossphaeron lbt sage stskeeps SR#7544 Accepted promotion request22:14
the-bossphaeron lbt sage stskeeps SR#7539 Accepted promotion request22:15
the-bossphaeron lbt sage stskeeps SR#7541 Accepted promotion request22:15
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Sagehmmp... phaeron ping :/22:22
the-bossphaeron lbt sage stskeeps SR#7545 Accepted promotion request22:22
Sagepah :D22:22
Sageok nm :P22:22
phaeronpatience !22:22
Sagewell, the url for trial build gave me 40422:23
Sagethus was going to ask22:23
* Sage mumbles something about yum mic backend being bad22:26
phaeronyou know where to get the zypper patch :)22:28
Sagestill not in mer-tools?22:31
Sagephaeron: you have rpm package of mic and stuff somewhere I could install?22:32
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the-bossphaeron lbt sage stskeeps SR#7546 waiting for review at
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the-bossphaeron lbt sage stskeeps SR#7546 Accepted promotion request23:05
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