Monday, 2013-07-22

[ol]Dam: Most likely back cover not closed properly or back cover sensor malfunction.00:01
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faenilearly morning today :D05:55
faenildm8tbr, o/06:00
faeniltoday is my chance to join nemomobile bug triaging! :D06:00
faenilI usually don't get up this early, if it's not for attending uni lessons :D06:01
faenilback to my wayland stuff :P06:05
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faenilcrap :( changing ISP didn't help my connection problems :(06:23
faenildm8tbr, am I wrong thinking you're the right guy for electrical issues? :D06:24
dm8tbrfaenil: well, depends, but ask and you'll find out06:25
faenilwell, I've been having disconnection problems for months since I moved to this apartment06:26
faeniland now06:26
faenilI'm not that yesterday evening SNR was 15/14db (which is good)06:26
faenilnow it is 5/4...and it keeps disconnecting06:27
faenilnow...what am I to do? :(06:27
dm8tbrso, tell me more about this as I'm missing some important details and I don't like guessing.06:27
dm8tbr- ADSL? ADSL2? ADSL2+?06:27
dm8tbrat which level does the disconnect happen?06:28
faenilit should be ADSL+, though it's currently using 8mb profile, so it could be ADSL (maybe because they're still finishing activating processes)06:29
faenilanyway, before switching ISP it was ADSL06:29
faenilwith the new ISP it should be ADSL2+06:29
faenilI'll try to answer the level question: adsl connection drops06:30
faeniladsl led blinking06:30
faenilrouter loses IP and any connection to the ISP06:30
dm8tbrok, what modem do you have and what type of technical information does it get you?06:31
faenilI've got 3 wifi router, Netgear/Dlink/blabla06:31
faenilusing the blabla one atm06:32
dm8tbr(you're lucky, while I'm not a great expert at many aspects of ADSL, it sounds like this is more of a signal problem and I do understand something about that part)06:32
dm8tbrthe problem occurs with all of them?06:32
faeniland it only occurs at times06:32
dm8tbrthis is on phone wiring?06:32
faenillike it is unusable from 15:30 on06:33
dm8tbris there a statistical significance in when it occurs?06:33
faenilmostly afternoon06:33
faenillate afternoon it's unusable, keeps disconnecting every few seconds06:33
faenillast night I was logged here from 22 to 00 it never disconnected06:34
faenilthen all at once it disconnected 3-4times from 00 to 106:34
dm8tbrhow old is the building you live in? is it purely residential or are there offices shops, workshops?06:35
chriadamraining?  is there a junction or line join which could be impacted by moisture?06:35
faeniland when I checked at 22 something, SNR was 14/15 (dl/ul)06:35
faenilchriadam, it rained yesterday, but it hasn't rained in last few weeks, so I guess that's not it06:35
dm8tbroh it can be06:35
dm8tbrmoisture doesn't travel instantly06:36
faenildm8tbr, pretty old, offices at the base floor (like 2 of them)06:36
chriadamif there was a cellular link involved in the equation, I'd say it'd be when the cellular operator gets overloaded with SMS data.  but pure adsl over pots, that's highly unlikely.06:36
faenilsorry shops, not offices06:36
dm8tbrwhat's pretty old? 20? 40? 60? 100 years?06:36
faenildm8tbr, it should be from '60s06:37
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faenildon't know if they ever remade the cabling06:37
faenilbut my housemates say the problems started few months ago06:37
faenilthey didn't have this issue last year06:37
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dm8tbrok, then please try to think of what has happened in this building and the surrounding area around this time06:38
chriadamdid the building have its air conditioning system replaced in teh meantime?06:38
faenildm8tbr, I wasn't here, so I wouldn't know :/ and they couldn't tell me anything06:38
faenilchriadam, no air conditioning here06:38
chriadamhrm :-/06:38
chriadamthen I have no idea, sorry06:38
dm8tbrok, what's the exact address? do you know where the BX/DSLAM is housed?06:39
faenilI know there are problems with the elevator being too old, don't know if that can mean something06:39
faenildm8tbr, yeah wait06:39
dm8tbrdoes this happen only on this copper pair or are there other users in the building that see the same behaviour/problems?06:40
chriadamfaenil: if the power for the elevator motor runs next to the junction box, it might.  really dirty power = lots of emf.  but only from 15:30 onwards?  seems strange, unless the elevator gets a lot of use around that time.06:40
faenildm8tbr, about 1.7Km from here (via road)06:40
faenildm8tbr, don't know about other users, I've tried a wifi which is open and accessible from my terrace, and there are no problems with that connection06:41
faenilthough I'm not sure that signal is coming from the same building06:41
dm8tbrcan you pastebin a traceroute from both to e.g.
faenileven if it's quite likely06:41
faenildm8tbr, I can confirm modulation is ADSL2+06:42
faenildm8tbr, does that help? we're using different isps06:42
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dm8tbrare both ISPs ADSL?06:43
chriadamand you're certain noone is hooking into your loop to make phone calls?  ie, hooking up a handset to your copper without an appropriate filter, will cause all sorts of crazy noise in the frequencies used by adsl06:43
faenilyeah, his is probably ADSL, mine is ADSL2+06:44
dm8tbror is one using different technology? like cable-tv or WLL or WIMAX or ...06:44
faenilchriadam, how could i know about that :D but it doesn't usually happen06:44
faenildm8tbr, no cable-tv connection in Italy afaik, and it's not WIMAX06:44
dm8tbrwhat's connected to the copper in your apartment? how long is the wire in your apartment? where is it routed? are there any CFLs near the path where it is routed?06:45
faenildm8tbr, I tried detaching all plugs from the main one06:45
faeniland only left the router plugged to it, still same problem06:45
dm8tbrwhat else was plugged in?06:45
faenilat the moment there's a wireless phone06:46
faenilon another plug06:46
faenilrouter is on the main one, the one closest to the exit door06:46
dm8tbrwhere is the ADSL filter installed?06:46
faenilboth plugs06:47
faenilmmm my SNR for download is 3.2 atm06:48
faenilit might drop soon :D06:48
faenilwow 0.9 now!!06:48
faenilwth is going on??06:48
faenilback to 4-5now06:48
faenilnow dl is 1.7, up is 1106:49
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faenilwell, it fluctuates quite a lot :)06:49
dm8tbrare you able to log this over time?06:49
faenilkeeps going from 0.5 to 506:49
faenilmmm router doesn't let me, how could I take the SNR info if not from the web ui?06:50
dm8tbralso does any of the modems provide you with a spectrum read out of the ADSL signals?06:50
faenilRx Drops Count06:51
dm8tbrwhile true do curl $url >>adsl.log06:51
dm8tbrthat's the dropped packet count06:51
faenilit's what it says in the "statistics" page06:51
dm8tbrare there any CFLs near the path where it is  routed?06:52
faenilmm maybe one at the entrance06:52
faenilbut it's always off06:52
faenilno it's not cfl06:53
dm8tbrhow about the stair case?06:53
dm8tbrany idea how the copper pair is routed in the building?06:53
faenileach floor has 3-4 apartments06:54
faenilon 2 of the 4 sides06:54
faenil3 of the 4 sides actually06:54
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dm8tbrwho owns the copper? telecom italia?06:55
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Stskeepsfaenil: you might want to try to see what happens if you only use one splitter fwiw, and try both of them06:56
dm8tbryeah, I'd even go further and detach the branched off wire that goes to the other room06:57
dm8tbralso your router tries to do FUD-security and filters ICMP... meh06:58
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iekku_nemo bug triage starting07:02
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faenil<faenil> every door has the copper box at its top right07:06
faenil<faenil> (it has the main italian ISP mark on it, so it's phone/adsl box)07:06
faenil<faenil> but I don't know how cables are routed to each door07:06
faenil<faenil> it keeps fluctuating even while the elevator is not being used, fwiw07:06
faenil<faenil> dm8tbr, ul SNR has been stable since the last half an 11-12, which is not bad07:06
faenil<faenil> while dl keeps going from 1 to 5, for no apparent reason, none is using the elevator07:06
faenil<faenil> -2.0 SNR? wow :D07:06
faenil<faenil> am I still connected? guys? XD07:07
faenilStskeeps, good morning :) read your message from web's log07:07
iekkuhmm, what?07:07
faeniliekku, mm? :)07:08
iekkujust trying to understand your paste :P07:08
iekkuno success so far07:08
faeniliekku, :D it's what I wrote while I thought I was online :)07:08
faenilit's an ongoing discussion between me and dm8tbr and chriadam07:09
faenildm8tbr, I already tried detaching the rest of the copper stuff07:09
faeniland leaving only the main plug connected in the apartment07:10
chriadamonly thing I can suggest is: log the activity, over a period of time (say 3 days) then send to isp :-/07:10
faenilbut that didn't help the problem07:10
faenilchriadam, the previous ISP told me it's all good for them, they can't help07:10
faenilthis is what they kept repeating all the times I called them07:11
chriadamat worst they'll say "hire an electrician to diagnose the problem, since our logs show it's not network-side, so it must be on the apartment side"07:11
dm8tbrI'm reasonably sure there is a high level of intereference07:11
faenilchriadam, yeah that's what they said07:11
dm8tbrfaenil: your best chances would be if you'd be with the ISP who belongs to the company that also owns the wires07:11
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dm8tbreveryone else is trying to cut their cost to a bare minimum07:12
faenildm8tbr, yeah I know, unfortunately it's not the one giving the best service :D07:12
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dm8tbrand dispatching a technician to diagnose the line means hiring this as a service from the line owning company. And that means being ass-raped for gobs of money.07:12
dm8tbrso they will generally try to weasel out of it07:12
faenilyeah, I know :(07:13
dm8tbrif you have phone service you could try to see if there is degraded phone service at the same time as the ADSL problems07:13
dm8tbrlike line noise, crackle, transients, etc07:13
dm8tbrthen you could report a fault to the telco, which is hopefully the line owner and HEAVILY suggest to be put on different copper pairs all the way to the BX07:14
chriadamyeah.  especially if it's that old... people could have ripped up the 50 twist to your block with a skidsteer, then repaired it with dodgy joins and stuff.  it's pushing 50 years old from what you're saying, so new copper sounds like the trick07:16
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faenil<faenil> my house owner has a building business I think, he has men who do everything, so I guess I should call him (again) and force him into sending an electrician07:19
faenil<faenil> dm8tbr, don't know if it's at the same time, but you can hear clicks and noises on the phone07:19
faenil<faenil> dm8tbr, the phone line is clearly not clean07:19
faenil<faenil> you can hear sudden clicks and noises07:19
faeniland the telco is not the one owning the wires07:20
faenilas they usually offer worse service, at higher price07:20
dm8tbrthat sucks07:20
dm8tbressentially your best chance is to get a different copper pair07:20
faenilwhich will never happen, great07:20
dm8tbrone brute force way to get it is to get a second line07:21
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faenildm8tbr, and there's no way they can reuse old copper in that case? :D07:21
dm8tbrthe problem is, that the issue is likely with the current line07:22
dm8tbrso switching to one of the other spare (aka 'new') lines is the way to go07:22
dm8tbrone way to force getting one of them is by ordering a new line without cancelling the existing line07:22
faenildon't think the other guys would accept (the cost is quite high iirc) but thanks for the option :)07:23
dm8tbran intermediate step could be to ask the building owner to transfer you to different line on the in house bundle07:23
faenilmm building owner...ok07:23
dm8tbras we don't know the source of the line interference it's hard to give you better advice07:24
faenilyeah I understand07:24
dm8tbrdo you have access to a spectrum analyzer or some sort of SDR?07:24
dm8tbrsomething that can sample the spectrum from 0-2MHz?07:24
faenildo you think the house owner's electrician minion could help? or does it have to be telco specialist electrician?07:24
faenilI have no tools like that07:25
dm8tbrthis is a task an ordinary minion should be able to do. The question is though if any of the junction boxes are sealed07:25
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faenildm8tbr, you meant junction boxes from the ISP?07:32
faenil(the one top right of each door?)07:33
dm8tbrtelephone line07:33
faenilno they're not sealed afaik07:33
faeniljust common plastic stuff with screws07:33
dm8tbrthen all it needs is someone to switch you to a different pair07:34
faenilare there spare pairs in the boxes like that?07:34
dm8tbrunless the building was wired by utter morons, yes07:34
faenilehehe don't know what happened since it was built :D07:35
faenildm8tbr, I'm on the last floor (fwiw), last apartment07:35
faenilI hope they left something for me as well lol07:35
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faenildo you want me to open my telephone box out of the door and get a picture for you? :D07:35
dm8tbrif that's possible, that might help07:36
faenilgreat, let's see07:36
* faenil goes to have a look07:37
dm8tbrtry to get a good shot of all the wiring07:37
dm8tbrpossibly from several angles07:37
faenilit's a tiny box, like 10x15cm07:37
faenilI'll see what I can do :)07:37
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faenildm8tbr, mmm 1cm thick cable :(07:43
faenilonly 1 cable, thicker than copper (maybe it has more copper lines inside?)07:43
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dm8tbrfaenil: btw, triage ongoing ;)07:43
faenildm8tbr, yeah reading :) can't contribute to bugs as I'm pretty outdated in those regards :D07:44
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iekkuguys, netweaver can participate to triage even while driving, you can read description and say your opinion07:47
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iekkuand that wasn't ment as a offend07:49
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faeniliekku, oh if that is enough I can then ;)07:55
faenil(sorry connection issues)07:55
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fk_lxiekku: no problem :-) got it08:01
iekkufk_lx, it's easy for you, you are there also :P08:01
iekkubut it wasn't ment to offend those who aren't08:01
iekkui would like to see more people participating, but we all have our responsibilities08:02
fk_lxiekku: I understand what you mean, but I'm first time, so for now mostly taking part passively ;-)08:02
fk_lxI'll try to be active next week :-)08:04
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faenilargh, I'm hating this08:10
faeniliekku, is the bug triaging still ongoing?08:10
faenildm8tbr, got some sad pictures08:10
faenilmmm ok :(08:10
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faenilStskeeps, ping08:16
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faenil230 is the box outside the door08:21
faenil231 is one box inside my house, close to the door (I guess it's the end of 230's cable)08:22
faenil234/7/8/9 and 244 is the real copper phone box, inside my home08:22
faenil240/1/3/5 is another electricity box, which is like 3-4mt left of the phone box (I wanted to check if the phone cable was put together with the rest in that box, but I couldn't see it, and didn't want to move wires :D)08:23
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faenilStskeeps, I need fbset for the 32bit right?08:32
Stskeepsno, that's done in VBoxManager08:33
Stskeepsno, that's done in VBoxManage08:33
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faenilStskeeps, oh it's enough to use that command08:41
faenilwin o/ running at 32bit08:41
faenilStskeeps, is there any way to automate the VBoxManage command? or should I write it on the wiki?08:41
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Stskeepsyou need that anyway to set up the VM08:42
faenilyeah well, I was referring to that as well :)08:42
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dm8tbrfaenil: btw, that 'outside box' looks like coax, so it's not the phone cable. 231 shows it being terminated, which reinforces that guess.08:46
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dm8tbrso the phone cable comes from somewhere else08:46
dm8tbralso it's only two wires08:46
faenildm8tbr, yep08:46
faenilthe only thing which is at its left is that electric cables box...08:47
faenilwhich is a mess08:47
faenilI'll try to see in other rooms, if there's anything interesting08:47
dm8tbrif they really ran phone as an uninsulated pare next to power, then all bets are off08:47
faenilare many timed-qt5 errors expected in journalctl in the VM?08:49
faenilI haven't changed the MW yet :P08:50
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faenilback :)11:28
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faenilSage, whenever you have few secs to hit the Merge button :D
faenilw00t__, special, Sage, small PR for Wayland update, hope someone can review it, it's small stuff ;)
faenilSage, also, let me know if you want a PR to get rid of the xorg Requires in nemo-mobile-session...I think it'd be easier it yourself from the web UI, but I can do the PR if you believe that's better ;)11:55
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faenilw00t__, thanks man <311:56
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w00t__faenil: :)12:06
faenilw00t__, :) got to wait for Sage guys are damn busy these days :D12:07
w00t__faenil: I just wasn't around much friday. I'm normally here if you ping me :)12:07
faenilalright ;) it's like you, special, Sage disappeared all at once :D12:07
faenilfeels like*12:08
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faenilw00t__, 1) do we still need mthemedaemon for lipstick qt5? there are plenty or errors with the icons12:23
faenilw00t__, 2) can I git tag so that it goes to repo? (I'll do that later though)12:24
w00t__it's not yet ported/used, so not really -- the problem it addresses is for the time being left unsolved12:24
w00t__as for 2, yes, go ahead12:24
faenilw00t__, ok so I can get rid of it12:25
w00t__push a PR and i'll take a look, anyway12:25
faenila PR for what :)12:25
w00t__whatever changes you make :-)12:26
faenilno I meant the package itself, mthemedaemon, I wanted to know if I could get rid of it, as I'm building the Qt5/Wayland Nemo VM image12:26
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: well, I'm here12:30
Sfiet_Konstantinbut busy :(12:30
faenilSfiet_Konstantin, np ;) I'm sure you're having fun as well (bastard ehehhe :D)12:30
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piggzfaenil: so, what is it youve fixed? i though qml-compositor worked already?  what is the relationship between qml-compositor and lipstik-qt5?12:36
faenilpiggz, I'm just trying to make an image which already starts with wayland and qt5 middleware12:37
faenilso that we can build QtQuickControls and Apps on top12:37
faenilpiggz, that requires knowing how the boot process works and package management, so that you can replace x11 with wayland compositors, and add the rest on top without incurrint into unhealthy effects :D12:38
piggzah, ok12:39
faenilthat includes researching which packages depend on Qt412:39
faenillooking for Qt5 ports of the same middleware12:40
faeniland modifying stuff so that when you have wayland and Qt5 middleware, Nemo still boots :D12:40
faeniland making it easy for people to start developing on Wayland+Qt5 on Nemo, that's what I'm currently doing is about :)12:41
faenilpiggz, no luck with n950 wayland yet?12:42
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piggzfaenil: no, i havent tried any more....had to make some mods to be my bb10 own-cloud-news client12:44
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: that's a nice job12:44
Sfiet_Konstantinreally good :)12:44
faenilSfiet_Konstantin, thanks :) I'm learning a looot of stuff :)12:44
Sfiet_Konstantinthe systemd stuff is nice12:44
Sfiet_Konstantinas usual, when I was hacking my iconia tab images, it was the same :)12:45
faeniltry pinging w00t__ maybe? he wrote the wiki guide12:45
faenilSfiet_Konstantin, :)12:45
w00t__i didn't do it12:45
piggzfaenil: cool, id like it to be easier to develop on, id have a few apps ready in no time .... then, i could potentially preogress onto more core-type apps12:45
faenilw00t__, ahah :D piggz can't get wayland to work on n95012:45
faenilnot wayland, his Qt5 app maybe? I don't remember, piggz explain again please :)12:46
piggzi can run the qml-compositor on wayland, and get the blue background, but cant get any apps to show up12:46
Sfiet_Konstantinpiggz: what happened when you run one of them ?12:47
Sfiet_Konstantinlike qmlscene -platform wayland ?12:47
piggzSfiet_Konstantin: yes, i tried running that, and i get loads of debug output, but nothing on screen .... the output from the compositor says QQMLCompoennet Not ready ; cant assign undefined to targetWidth12:48
piggzor, something alng those line12:48
piggzbut, that text is in the wiki, so maybe thats expected12:49
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piggzargh, X crashed right after what i last said12:51
w00t__ <- follow those instructions (I removed the other rather incorrect ones) -- if they don't work then I don't offhand know what the problem is12:51
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Sfiet_Konstantinpiggz: display servers don't like you12:53
Sfiet_Konstantinneither X nor wayland12:53
Sfiet_Konstantinpiggz: mind pasting the debug trace12:54
Sfiet_Konstantinmaybe it contains interesting stuff12:54
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piggzSfiet_Konstantin: i dont have it to hand, but i think i posted something yesterday, i wonder if its in the logs12:55
piggzSfiet_Konstantin: damn, i found the paste, but its been removed from ... i'll get something later12:59
Sfiet_Konstantinif i'm still online13:00
Sfiet_Konstantinbecause i'm not always here13:00
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Aarddo we have somebody here bored enough to look into doing a qml2-port of fingerterm?13:20
faenil_so, sensorfw-qt5 requires sensorfw, which requires Qt4???13:20
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil_: it is a non gui application13:21
Sfiet_KonstantinI guess it is ok to leave sensorfw13:22
faenil_yea but I mean, wtf13:22
Aardfaenil_: if it's built in nemo:mw -> should be dropped from there13:22
faenil_qt5 requires something which requires qt5 :D13:22
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faenilqt5 requires something which requires qt4 :D13:22
faenilAard, yeah both sensorfw and sensorfw-qt5 are in nemo:mw, why?13:23
Aardthey should come from mer:qt13:23
faeniloh ok you mean while doing mic, I'll check that13:24
faenilI added mer:qt:devel13:24
faenilso I guess it will take them from there13:24
faenilAard, but...the one in qt devel has version, the one on nemo:mw has
faenilso it's choosing nemo's one...13:27
Aardfaenil: the one in nemo:mw should be deleted there by someone with permissions to do so13:28
faenilw00t__, ^ :D13:28
faenilAard, ok so I'm screwed until someone deletes that :D it's only 1 days older though :P13:29
w00t__i'll take a look13:29
faenilin any case, I should leave sensorfw in, ok ;)13:29
faenil(and relative qt4 libraries)13:29
w00t__i'm not quite sure what you're doing with this 'leaving in' stuff13:30
w00t__packages are pulled in according to what depends on them13:30
w00t__if nothing depends on a package, it won't be pulled in13:30
faenilw00t__, the thing is I don't which packages HAVE to be there13:31
w00t__so use rpm -e and see what depends on it13:31
faenil(even if they're not requested)13:31
faenilno you misunderstood13:31
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faenilI mean, I'm building the wayland/qt5 image, I guess there are some packages which have to be there, but are not dependency of any package13:32
faenilto avoid that, I'm taking out all qt4 packages and middleware (using "-" in the ks), and adding qt5 mw13:32
w00t__those are in patterns, and there should not be many of those at all13:32
faenilw00t__, patterns are still using qt4 stuff13:32
faenillike libcommhistory-tools13:32
faenilwhile there's a qt5 version13:33
faenilor even lipstick-tools13:33
faenilI don't remember what else13:33
faenilor like meegotouch stuff, we want to get rid of that13:34
w00t__outside of patterns-apps and patterns-ux, you should not really _need_ to do anything to get a sane image13:34
w00t__but anyway, I'll leave you to it I guess13:35
faenilw00t__, well I got rid of apps, as they're all Qt413:35
w00t__remove the apps pattern, chop out most of the ux pattern, and you should have an image that hopefully will get you to (or close to) a UI13:35
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faenilbut for example if I only modify the ux pattern, who's going to get rid of Qt4 mw and use Qt5 one?13:36
faenilw00t__, I already have the Wayland compositor booting :)13:36
w00t__do it when you need to do it, don't do it for the sake of removing it13:36
faenilthis was the plan with Stskeeps : get rid of as much of Qt4 as possible, and replace Qt4 mw with Qt5 MW13:37
faeniland that's what I'm doing :)13:37
faenilI already have a working image, which boots to wayland compositor13:37
w00t__well okay, i'm just having a hard time imagining any real benefit of that work, but it's your time to spend, so if you're happy doing it,  great :p13:41
w00t__as for meegotouch, despite what the ux pattern says, most of it is already gone13:42
faenilw00t__, no wait, if it's not worth it I'm stopping here...I did that as I talked to Stskeeps and it seemed the right thing to do13:42
faenilpassing to Wayland and Qt5 middleware13:43
w00t__the only remaining dependency (which you won't need) is systemui13:43
faenilso that we could happily build QtQuickControls for Glacier and Qt5 apps on top13:43
w00t__if you've got something that boots to a UI, you already have it13:43
faenilbut I don't have Qt5 middleware, do I13:44
w00t__and that's my whole point: you'll get that when it's required by stuff using it13:44
w00t__write something which has dependencies on the qt5 packages, and it'll get pulled in13:45
faenilyeah I get that13:45
w00t__but with applications and UX gone, most of the dependencies to qt4 stuff you have now are either things that are trivial to fix in the future (and thus don't really matter for your work, like the commhistory tools), or things that you can't really fix right now (like sensorfw)13:47
faenilw00t__, alright thanks for opening my eyes, I wasted one day doing this
w00t__like, on that page you list libqmfmessageserver1 - why was that even on that minimal image?13:47
faenilno idea, I started from the official VM image13:48
faenilthose are packages from the full build, not the minimal wayland one13:48
w00t__same for nemo-qml-plugin-systemsettings -- that gets pulled in by qmlsettings, which you won't have if you don't have the apps pattern13:49
w00t__(along with most of the rest of nemo-qml-plugin-*)13:49
faenilyeah, complete waste of time :(13:50
w00t__i hope i'm making sense here btw, please tell me if i'm not or if i'm misunderstanding what you're doing13:50
aknightfaenil: btw, is there any code for glacier yet?13:50
Stskeepsfaenil: nah, you learnt a lot - but i also said to start from working VM image and add on middleware afterwards, it'd make your life easier13:50
faenilw00t__, no you are...I just thought that there was a layer of stuff which had to be there, not just pulled in by other packages13:50
w00t__there is some, but not much13:51
faenilStskeeps, and that's what I did, I did compositor VM, and now I'm adding middlware13:51
w00t__stuff which is pulled in without requirements is in the patterns13:51
faenilaknight, nope13:51
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faenil( aknight  hi btw, how you doing :) )13:51
Stskeepsfaenil: right, though by that i meant only to include the packages needed to get compositor up :)13:51
aknightfaenil: hi :) no major complaints here13:51
faenilw00t__, yeah but how do I know if patterns needs to be edited for Qt5..13:51
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faenilStskeeps, oh ok :/13:52
w00t__faenil: if you have something that boots to your minimal UX, without applications, then you've more or less got a working setup13:52
faenilw00t__, yes I do (with packages built locally)13:53
faeniland I made the PRs to get that working with my .ks, i.e. the PR you accepted, the one for Sage on nemo-configs-x86, and the editing needed on nemo-mobile-session packaging13:54
faenilStskeeps, well, it's all experience, I'll just get keep the compositor only ks and get rid of the rest :D13:54
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faenilw00t__, then I'll just hope what's in the "qt4" patterns is enough for the Qt5 world13:57
w00t__faenil: if it isn't you can always change it later :)13:57
faeniloh well yeah13:57
aknightfaenil: so is your minimal compositor lipstick based?13:57
w00t__it's easier to change what you know is broken than trying to anticipate what is going to break before you start13:57
faenilaknight, yeah the lipstick qml compositor by special, it's already in lipstick-colorful-home13:58
aknightfaenil: ok, just checking since lipstick pulls in a lot of stuff that isn't required for a barebones compositor13:58
faenilw00t__, oh for sure, but I'm the type of guy who wants things to be as good as possible from the start, instead of going trial and error :) as long as it's sanely possible, of course13:58
faenilaknight, nah we need lipstick-qt5, so there was no point in getting rid of it :D13:59
aknightfaenil: i agree (for nemomobile)13:59
faenilaknight, ahahah damn you :P13:59
faenilwasn't Sailfish's HS lipstick-based?14:01
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Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: it is (slides of vesku at Akademy)14:04
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faenilSfiet_Konstantin, lol sorry, my connection is a bit upset :D14:09
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: it is (slides of vesku at Akademy)14:09
faenilyeah read it from weblog ;)14:10
Sfiet_Konstantin(zbout Jolla HS being lipstick based)14:10
Sfiet_Konstantinah :)14:10
faenilweblog is my best friend since I moved to this room with this crappy connection :D14:10
Sfiet_Konstantinindeed it is useful14:10
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Dami need some help guys14:24
faenilDam, shoot14:24
Damim trying to run nemo on n900 but i got a kernel panic :"not syncing: no init found" when i start it with uboot ... any idea ?14:24
faenilmm never had a n900 myself :/14:25
faenilw00t__, shouldn't lipstick-qt5 require qt5-plugin-platform-eglfs ?14:25
DamMmm... ok but this error isn't usual ?14:26
teveback cover closed?14:26
DamMmm nop14:27
Damtrying with cover14:28
tevethen close it and retry.14:28
Damfuck me14:29
Dami love you14:29
Damthank you mister teve14:29
Damnice loading screen :P14:30
Sfiet_Konstantinwtf :O14:31
Sfiet_Konstantinwhy closing backcover solve the issue teve ?14:31
StskeepsSfiet_Konstantin: it can't access the SD card otherwise14:32
Sfiet_KonstantinStskeeps: :O14:32
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Stskeepsthere's a magnet in there that's used to protect data on the microsd14:32
DamSo why kernel error message isnt more explicit ...14:32
Stskeepsso when back cover comes off, it unmounts the sd card very fast, in maemo14:32
StskeepsDam: well it says exactly what is the problem14:32
Stskeepsinit can't be found :)14:32
Stskeepsno such thing as "back cover is off" friendly messages in a kernel14:33
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Damyep... but i have cry a lot before this tips.14:34
Netweaverall: how to verify if the "sessiond user session" is properly running? I have imported 492 contacts using vcf file in Nemo People app but they don't show up? What needs to be done to update tracker (or other db used at the frontend) to show the new contacts?14:34
w00t__faenil: the way we've done it inside jolla is to have platform plugin part of the hardware adaptation pattern14:36
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faenilok, so in my case I have to add it ;) (I already added it but after your words I expected lipstick to pull it in :D)14:37
faenilw00t__, what could be pulling lipstick-colorful-home in? tip: it's not in MW :D14:37
w00t__well, that's one of the cases where patterns are needed14:37
w00t__since you may want a different platform plugin for different hardware (e.g.)14:38
faenilw00t__, sorry I meant not in UX14:38
w00t__ rather14:38
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faenilI deleted it from that pattern, and it still comes in :) (it's the only one, so there must be something else requesting the package)14:39
w00t__is the meegotouch-systemui stuff gone too?14:40
faenilunless panel-power requires lipstick qt414:41
w00t__meegotouch-systemui is in ux, not mw14:41
w00t__ those two14:41
faenilyeah I know14:42
faenildon't bother14:42
faenilI deleted stuff from UX pattern14:42
faenilbut then commented the mw one in the ks14:42
faeniland name the comment accordingly to my mistake :)14:42
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w00t__show me your full package list14:43
faenilw00t__, it was what I just said, I got rid of stuff in UX, but then commented the MW pattern in the ks instead of the UX ;)14:44
Damall: how many time take the first NEMO's load to the N900 ?14:44
Sfiet_KonstantinDam: a lot14:45
Sfiet_Konstantinwait and see14:45
Dami will open a beer14:46
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Dammeanwhile  do you have some web site or tuto which i can read ?14:48
faenilthere's nemomobile wiki14:48
faenildon't know what you need though :)14:49
Damis a good start point ;-)14:53
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faenilStskeeps, ping14:58
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Damnemomobile wiki is a nemo section in mer wiki ?14:59
faenilyeah I think so15:00
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DamUX mean User eXperience ?15:03
Sfiet_KonstantinDam: yes15:03
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faeniltesting latest wayland image...15:22
* faenil drumrolls15:22
faenilcome on baby come on15:22
faenilyay :)15:25
faenilgot to clear some more stuff15:25
faenilw00t__, you said it's okay to get rid of mthemedaemon right?15:25
faenil(it's getting pulled in)15:25
w00t__faenil: what by?15:26
faenilqt-components and qmlsettings15:26
faenil(qtcomponents only I guess, which is pulled in by qmlsettings, which is not in apps pattern)15:27
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w00t__just comment the dep out from qtcomponents packaging15:27
faenilor just add -qmlsettings in the ks?15:28
w00t__qmlsettings will be coming in from meegotouch settings, somewhere, almost certainly15:28
w00t__as it replaces all of their packages15:28
faenilI deleted all meegotouch* from UX pattern15:29
w00t__but you'll still need to fix qt-components if you're using lipstick-colorful-home atm15:29
faenilw00t__, I'm using lipstick-colorful-home-qt515:30
faenilwhich doesn't require qt4 qt-components I guess15:30
faenilw00t__, you think account-ui is pulling it in?15:34
w00t__if your pattern includes accounts-ui, then yes, it will15:35
w00t__qmlsettings replaced accounts-ui15:35
faenilyeah but I can't find accounts-ui in patterns15:35
faenillooking again15:35
faenilw00t__, it's in Apps, which I removed15:36
faenilalso meegotouch-contropanel is not installed the current image I made15:37
faenil(which is correct15:37
w00t__I was showing you the full list of packages it replaces15:37
w00t__the point being that you can check your list of packages in your ks against that one15:37
faenilyes I got that xD15:37
faenilw00t__, ohhh look, nemo-control-applet-power :P15:38
faenillet's delete that15:38
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Dami dont know if the nemo' installation is done but i have the message "welcome to emergency mode please presse ^D to entern in normal mode" and i cant press nothing.. maybe i must reboot now ?15:43
faenilw00t__, is nemo-control-panel a dummy (or old?) package?15:45
w00t__I don't remember off the top of my head15:45
faenilok, as I can't find it and nemo-control-panel-applets Requires that15:46
faenilbut maybe applets were old stuff which was used before qmlsettings?15:46
faenilI've written here some errors I have in the current image...I'm sure most of them are normal/expected, but I'd need your confirmation please...   ( w00t__ , special , Stskeeps, who else..)15:52
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faenilmost, if not all the errors, are expected stuff I guess, but I'd like to avoid spending time on researching stuff when it's useless :D15:54
w00t__is this on x86 VM?15:55
w00t__ignore dsme, and probably pulse for now15:55
w00t__jusa_: should ohmd be used on non-nokia hardware?15:55
faenilespecially timed-qt5 keeps producing errors because it's respawned by systemd15:59
faeniland keeps crashing15:59
Stskeepsw00t__: yes16:00
Stskeepspolicy daemon, etc16:01
w00t__i seem to remember that it was shoved in hardware adaptation, ok16:02
w00t__faenil: crashing why16:02
faenilw00t__, read paste :P16:02
faenilaborting, more than crashing16:02
w00t__not seen that before16:04
faenilit was already on the full image I believe16:04
faenilalso many sensord and mce errors16:05
faenillike Jul 22 15:22:51 localhost mce[244]: modules/display.c: backlight_ioctl_default(): ioctl() FBIOBLANK (0) failed on `/dev/fb0'; Invalid argument16:05
faenilJul 22 15:22:51 localhost mce[244]: tklock.c: tklock_reply_dbus_cb(): D-Bus call to org.nemomobile.lipstick.screenlock.tklock_open failed: The name16:05
faenilorg.nemomobile.lipstick was not provided by any .service files16:05
faenilI believe the second one is due to the fact that lipstick wasn't launched yet at that point, though I'm no sure16:06
w00t__that's saying that you don't have any homescreen running when it tried to talk to it, for some reason16:07
faenilyes, well lipstick is launched afterwards I think16:08
DamShould i restart the device when nemo installation write : "Welcome to emergency mode, press ^D to enter in normal mode" ?16:08
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faenilDam, seems like there's no n900 nemo user around :/16:16
Damyes indeed... bad for me16:19
Netweaver_N900 user here :)16:20
faenilDam, from Dec 2011 ->
Netweaver_long time ago I booted Nemo first time. But I remember seeing that message before, indeed it turned out to be a bad write16:22
Netweaver_sometimes had to reformat using the Panasonic SD card formatter to get the card back usable again16:23
Dambad news16:23
Damthank you i will formatter again16:23
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faenilStskeeps, do you think we need this?;a=blob_plain;f=patterns/mer-minimal-xorg.yaml;hb=master16:37
faenilbut we need the many libX, right?16:37
Stskeepsit'll get included if it's needed16:38
faenilthere are many installed atm, I'll see what pulls them in ;) all the xorg-drv as well16:38
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faenilStskeeps, are the xorg-drv-mouse/keyboard needed for example?16:44
faenilI checked the libX stuff, they're needed for the (remaining) Qt4 libs16:44
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faenilStskeeps, ok, so I can strip xorg stuff from here?
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faenilStskeeps, done :) I think ks is ready17:10
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faenilStskeeps, though I think there's no sense in publishing it until the PRs needed to make it build are not accepted17:14
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Stskeepscan i see .ks?17:19
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faenilStskeeps, sure ;)
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faenilStskeeps, feedback?17:27
Stskeepslooks surprisingily good17:27
faenilgreat :)17:27
faenilStskeeps, want to have a look at the list of packages?17:27
faenil(the one generated by mic)17:27
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Stskeepsfaenil: what pulls in qtcore4?17:30
Stskeepsrpm -e libqtcore4 on the image17:31
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faenilI have written it down ;)17:31
faenilcontextkit and tracker17:31
faenilfew more17:31
faenilsensorfw, libdbus17:32
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faeniland mlite, which is needed by contextkit-plugin-upower17:32
faenillibqtdbus I meant sorry* (and few other libqt*s which are pulled in by the usual contextkit, tracker...)17:33
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faenilhow can I check if maliit is working properly?18:03
specialin what sense18:03
faenilspecial, hey :)18:03
faenilspecial, well, journalctl reports FATAL: Failed to load platform plugin "xcb". Available platforms are:18:04
faenilso I guess it didn't start18:04
faenilthen I run EGL_PLATFORM=fbdev QT_QPA_EGLFS_DEPTH=32 /usr/bin/maliit-server -platform eglfs18:04
faeniland I get18:04
faenilmaliit-server: already running18:04
Stskeepsyeah, no, you'll want =wayland and -platform wayland18:04
specialyou want wayland18:04
specialonly the compositor (lipstick) runs eglfs18:05
faenilyeah but in any case, journalctl says it couldn't start18:05
faenilthen I try something else, and it's already running18:06
faenilthe .service file for it doesn't have any platform parameter passing18:06
specialit can be dbus-launched as well18:06
faenilchecked from here18:06
specialcheck /usr/share/dbus-1/services/18:07
faenilspecial, it's there, but still no platform parameter18:07
Stskeepsplatform comes from the conf files18:08
specialQT_QPA_PLATFORM=wayland should be set from somewhere, yeah.18:09
faenilStskeeps, doesn't that require having EnvFile in the .service?18:10
specialas part of the session environment, under /var/lib/environment18:11
Stskeepsfaenil: you'll have that in the user-session@ file18:11
faenilStskeeps, you mean the maliit-server.service in directory18:15
StskeepsEnvironmentFile in /lib/systemd/system/user-session@.service18:16
faenilyea found it18:16
Stskeepswill transfer to everything running in user session18:16
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faenildidn't know I could do that18:16
faenilok ;)18:16
faenilthen why is it giving error at startup? :D18:16
jusa_w00t__: yes, like Stskeeps already said18:18
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Merbotphaeron lbt sage SR#382 waiting for review at
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piggzSfiet_Konstantin: output from QML Compositor .......... output from QMLScene
piggzw00t__: ^18:48
vgradepiggz: do you get same result from running command from /home/nemo/minimer18:57
Sfiet_Konstantinsounds strange18:58
Sfiet_Konstantinvgrade: what about just launching qmlscene18:58
Sfiet_Konstantinwithout anything ?18:58
piggzha, there is no /home/nemo/minimer18:59
Sfiet_Konstantinpiggz: :P18:59
Sfiet_Konstantinbut what happens if you just launch qmlscene, should  be ok19:00
Sfiet_Konstantinsomething should be displayed19:00
piggznope, ive tried with nothing, and an existing qml file that i found, neither display anything19:00
w00t__"file:///usr/lib/qt5/examples/qtwayland/qml-compositor/main.qml:90: TypeError: Cannot set property 'targetWidth' of null19:01
w00t__debug and fix that19:01
piggzw00t__: i presume that occurs becuase of the line above19:01
piggzthe component isnt ready19:01
w00t__perhaps, i don't know19:01
w00t__but that's almost certainly why it's not working19:01
vgradepiggz: after launching qml-compositor do you have the a pale blue background with white pattern19:05
piggzvgrade: yes, with a little mouse pointer in the corner19:05
piggzi will try editing the compositor so that it creates the compoenent when ready like in
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Damtry to disable the "flight mode" but i cant ?! knew bug ?19:18
Stskeepspiggz: oh?19:19
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Stskeepspiggz: congrats :)19:22
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DamSome user on N900 ?19:24
piggzStskeeps: i didnt fix it very well, but it is related to the component not being ready ... i actually added some logging just before the object creation, but it had a syntax error ... displaying the error gave the component time to load!19:24
vgradepiggz: just the ticket, keyboard control19:28
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Merbotphaeron lbt sage SR#383 waiting for review at
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