Tuesday, 2013-09-24

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lpotterStskeeps: https://github.com/mer-packages/connman/pull/4 please08:46
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faenilthp, nice PR :)09:00
stephgmorning everyone what's going on in nemoland09:01
faenilhey :) all good here, started working on glacier components09:02
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thpfaenil: thanks :)09:03
mikhasPR, where?09:06
sledgeswhich libcontentaction09:19
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: I need cooperation with you09:22
Sfiet_Konstantinmy school project will start and I will team with someone else to work on core apps, so this includes glacier and homescreen09:22
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Sfiet_Konstantindamn :/09:22
fk_lxSfiet_Konstantin: hi09:24
Sfiet_Konstantinhello fk_lx09:24
fk_lxSfiet_Konstantin: what's up?09:26
Sfiet_Konstantinfk_lx: tired09:26
Sfiet_Konstantincourses and hack09:26
fk_lxSfiet_Konstantin: well studies end some day09:28
Sfiet_KonstantinI hope :P09:28
fk_lxand then you notice that studies were quite ok when comparing with full time work ;-)09:28
Sfiet_Konstantintime to grab a Pizza09:28
fk_lxenjoy :-)09:28
Sfiet_Konstantinat least you don't need to work during WE when you work09:28
sledgeswhat's WE ?09:28
Sfiet_Konstantinyou hack during week end09:29
Sfiet_Konstantinfor your own pleasure09:29
Sfiet_Konstantin(well, I try to hack for my own pleasure at school too: picking a Nemo related project)09:29
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Sfiet_Konstantinping faenil10:56
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: can you push your work on components somewhere on github ?10:57
Sfiet_Konstantin+ how to enable portrait mode on a N950 on current nemo ?10:57
Sfiet_Konstantinif you can10:57
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faenilSfiet_Konstantin, the current work is not pushable, I'll push as it's ready xD10:58
faenilabout orientation, I think the only problem is qtcomponents not delivering orientation change afaik10:58
faenil(since we switched away from x11)10:58
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: ok10:58
Sfiet_Konstantinour components will need that10:58
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: did you received my mesage ?10:59
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: [11:22] <Sfiet_Konstantin> my school project will start and I will team with someone else to work on core apps, so this includes glacier and homescreen10:59
faenilahmmm, which one?10:59
faeniloh, no I didn't10:59
Sfiet_Konstantinnow you received it10:59
Sfiet_Konstantinbasically, I will spend like 4h / week on it10:59
Sfiet_Konstantinand maybe more10:59
faenilcool :)10:59
faenilyeah I read about it in the backlog10:59
Sfiet_Konstantinthere will be another guy, but he is a total noob for Nemo11:00
Sfiet_Konstantinand even Qt and QML11:00
Sfiet_Konstantinbut initiation cannot be bad11:00
faenilyeah ;)11:00
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Sfiet_Konstantinand I will try to grab a Galaxy S2 and port Nemo on it11:01
faenilah cool ;) not ported already?11:01
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: I mean _my_ GS2 (waiting for my father to give it to me :D)11:03
sledgesit has11:03
Sfiet_Konstantinbut I want to see how libhybris works etc11:03
Sfiet_Konstantinyet another development platform :D11:03
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sledgessad the effort went down in the downs11:04
sledgesjust poke him on twitter ;)11:04
sledgesas you'll still need mer kernel, so half job done from him11:04
Sfiet_Konstantinwill see when I get the GS211:05
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Sfiet_Konstantinor I can just dev with the N950, or vbox :)11:06
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: mind sharing what you found hacking on components ?11:09
Morpog_N9__Sfiet_Konstantin, when is your project starting?11:11
faenilSfiet_Konstantin, I'm setting up the repo, basic hello world11:11
Sfiet_KonstantinMorpog_N9__: like soon, tomorrow is the project submission deadline11:11
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: ok11:11
faenilstuff like that, nothing real components11:12
Morpog_N9__we are still busy speccing and creating/slicing graphics for components11:12
faenilreadapting tizen repo11:12
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: right, so you start with tizen repo11:12
Sfiet_Konstantinin my side I will try to make a button :D11:12
faenilthey already have theme handling in place11:12
Morpog_N9__but there already are some ready sruff11:12
faenilno rocket science, but still, reuse code when possible :)11:12
Sfiet_Konstantinbut we might need to setup some task allocation or stuff like that11:12
Morpog_N9__button is specced already :)11:13
Sfiet_Konstantinjust not to step on each other's feed11:13
Sfiet_KonstantinMorpog_N9__: button is not made11:13
faenilI want to make components, I've been waiting months to get to this point :P11:13
Morpog_N9__but specced11:13
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: scrum like are you ok ?11:13
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: me too11:13
Sfiet_KonstantinMorpog_N9__: indeed :)11:13
faenilSfiet_Konstantin, what?11:13
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrum_%28development%2911:13
Morpog_N9__will try to finish listview specs this week11:14
faenilSfiet_Konstantin, yes I know what scrum is, I didn't understand your sentnce :)11:14
Sfiet_KonstantinMorpog_N9__: you guys are awesome11:14
Morpog_N9__and need to update header spec11:14
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: are you ok if during the time that our project is running, that dev is done through with scrum11:15
Sfiet_Konstantinor any other agile style11:15
Morpog_N9__nah, we are slow like hell :)11:15
Sfiet_Konstantin(it is a requirement for our school, to do work like in companies)11:15
Sfiet_Konstantin(I picked up scrum, because it seems nice to know)11:15
Morpog_N9__Sfiet_Konstantin, faenil was using mer wiki in the past for tasks11:15
Sfiet_KonstantinMorpog_N9__: we can still11:16
Sfiet_Konstantinkeep mer wiki for tasks11:16
Sfiet_Konstantinand mer bugzilla for bugs11:16
faenilI have never used scrum, I wonder if other guys are already familiar with it11:17
faenila friend of mine is a scrum fan so I could get started in no time11:17
faenilbut I wonder if that will make contributions from outside less likely11:17
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: I have done scrum a bit11:18
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: not sure, we can run scrum in an inner project while still taking contribution from externals11:18
Sfiet_Konstantinbasically we need to focus resources on components, because without them, no home, no apps, no nothing11:18
Sfiet_Konstantingtg bbl11:20
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Merbotphaeron lbt sage stskeeps SR#424 Rejected promotion request11:50
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Merbotphaeron lbt sage stskeeps SR#425 waiting for review at https://build.merproject.org//request/show/42511:59
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alteregoSage: ping12:15
Sagealterego: pong12:16
alteregoKnow anything about that? Doesn't have service hooks and it seems broken for me..12:16
alteregoAlso not packaged in github12:17
alteregoWould you like me to sort it out? ;)12:17
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil, Morpog_Mobile and al, I'm opening the glacier wiki page, and will add a development section inside it12:18
Sfiet_Konstantininside, I will start to write a backlog12:18
Sagealterego: I wonder if it is https://github.com/nemomobile/libdres-ohm ?12:18
alteregoSage: Yes, they are related.12:18
Sagealterego: related or the same thing?12:18
alteregoI think it might be the same.12:19
alteregoLet me check12:19
Sagelibdres should be removed from there will rm12:19
Sageit is old copy of the same thing12:19
alteregoOkay, maybe that will fix this odd undef symbol :)12:20
* alterego plays a bit more.12:22
sledgesSage, :{ , https://github.com/nemomobile/nemo-patterns/pull/9 :}12:23
alteregoSage: that did it!!!! :D12:23
alteregoSage: also, my log is full of ambient light sensor readings.12:26
alteregoSage: and I'm sure it's nothing I've done ;)12:26
alteregoI suspect libalsaadapter-qt512:28
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alteregoWhich I can't find in git either.12:29
Sagesledges: merged12:30
Sagesledges: and tagged12:31
sledgesmarvellous thanks :)12:31
Sagealterego: can you pastebin the log?12:31
alteregoJan 01 00:08:56 localhost sensord[302]: *WARNING* [alsadaptor.cpp:170:virtual void ALSAdaptor::processSample(int, int)]: Ambient light value: 11112:31
alteregow00t: come hither12:31
w00t[14:31:53] <w00t> it's probably related to mce now using sensorfw for sensor data12:32
w00t[14:32:13] <w00t> looks harmess enough anyway...12:32
w00ti'd go for tracking it down and looking at removing it if it's annoying you enough12:32
alteregoAh sorry12:33
alteregoErm, anyway, it shouldn't be active when locked should it?12:33
w00tI don't know mce well enough to answer that.. spiiroin?12:33
alteregoIt also manages proximity too, which when interacting with the sensor causes a load of other crap about that sensor data.12:33
alteregoAgain, whilst being locked, can't really see much point in it being enabled all the time.12:34
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alterego10 samples a second12:34
sledgesSage, what magic needs to be done for _pattern to update? :{12:35
sledgesthe latest and second-latest patterns still the same size (633 bytes)12:35
sledgesso not updated12:35
Sagesledges: give it a moment there is ~5min timer after publish12:35
Sageit should appear12:36
sledgesyes \o/12:36
* spiiroin wonders what just happened12:37
alteregoSage, w00t: Anyway, regardless of it being on all the time, don't you think having that output as being warning level a bit silly?12:37
sledgesSage, @Nemo Complete Wayland is building, fingers cross(compil)ed ;)12:38
Sfiet_KonstantinMorpog_Mobile, qwazix can you update this wiki page to report the status of design. No pressure, just for tracking :)12:38
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w00talterego: I already said that you'd probably be fine to just nuke it :)12:40
w00tspiiroin: n950 has crap from ALS and proximity sensors while screen is off apparently12:40
alteregow00t: okay, thanks for the input :)12:40
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Sagesledges: \o/12:41
spiiroinw00t: should be ALS is enabled when display=ON/DIM, due to design and bugs PS is disabled only on display=DIM12:41
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sledgeslol Sage:12:48
sledgeswithout patterns (old faenil's .ks): Info: 426 packages to be installed12:49
sledgeswith patterns: Info: 428 packages to be installed12:49
sledgeswe'll see what sneaked in :))12:49
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alteregoStskeeps: hey, got an update for sensorfw-qt5 incoming.12:55
alteregoThough, I might attempt to fix continuous polling, so you might have to wait a couple of hours.12:55
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sledgesSage, ce-mtf-configs got pulled in13:03
Sagesledges: I'm not even sure if that is needed anymore on x11 image even13:03
sledgesSage, but then where will we store nemo-warranty.txt nemo-licence.txt ?13:06
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Sageare those read by anything atm.? At least the settings app changed completely since origin of those13:10
sledgesmight not be read, but not the reason to bin them yet13:11
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Sagesledges: sure but also not the reason to remove from wayland image ;)13:19
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sledgesnot saying that patterns are wrong ;P13:23
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alteregolpotter: ping13:26
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locusfso glacier dev has started13:50
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Morpog_N9__locusf, I added maliit status there. Feel free to correct me14:01
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sledgesMorpog_N9__, what happened to the rounded switch? http://hurrian.github.io/glacier/components.html ;)14:07
Morpog_N9__sledges, I got it done in svg for components, but after discussing with qwazix we decided to go for a more flat switch14:09
Morpog_N9__sledges, that was it: http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BUPArkQCYAA44Hf.png14:12
Morpog_N9__well, I like both switches, have a voice :)14:14
sledgesyou know my voice already ;)14:15
sledgeswhat do other think14:15
sledgesi mean what were the reasons of not following Hurrian ?14:16
Morpog_N9__because other components like slider were done more flat too14:16
sledgesprogress bar is nice and not flat with trumpet indicator14:17
Morpog_N9__maybe qwazix and hurrian should reply too14:17
sledgesbasically the final look won't be similar to http://hurrian.github.io/glacier/images/QtControls.png14:17
sledgesin terms of smoothness/flatness14:18
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Morpog_N9__check buttonrow and slider, both are more flat than on hurrians mockup14:19
Morpog_N9__new switch is more consistent with those14:21
sledgesthat's true14:22
sledgesbuttonrow and slider still look very nice14:22
Morpog_N9__and switch not? :(14:23
sledgesi think it's because switch is farthest from the original switch14:23
sledges*farthest looking14:23
sledgesbuttonrow wasn't in original design14:24
Morpog_N9__yeah thats true14:24
sledgesand slider went only a minor rectangulisation14:24
sledgesso optically that's where i'm coming from (my 2p imho though)14:24
sledgesslider was rounded14:25
Morpog_N9__and had a gradient14:25
sledgesand now its 'handle' is still rounded ;)14:25
sledgeswhy not make switche's handle rounded :)14:25
sledges'circles on rectangles' paradigm14:25
sledgesthat clashes with buttonrow though, but that one can't be avoided i guess14:26
Morpog_N9__easy to do, opinions qwazix, hurrian?14:26
qwazixMorpog_N9__, sledges, I still prefer the flat switch, and I also asked Hurrian before going through with the modifications for both elements14:27
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sledgesflat switch, rounded slider ?14:27
sledges(as in their 'handles')14:28
qwazixflat everything. IMO the rounded ones looked out-of-place14:28
qwazixI think I get what you are saying.14:28
sledgesjust use this for switch too: https://github.com/qwazix/glacier-controls-spec/blob/ab6b2253b4198d56dde86d5216ba0109fdebb0ff/slider/slider-ball.png14:28
qwazixthat's has a completely other use, it's a label, so it will be confusing14:29
qwazixbut the switch handle could be round, maybe14:29
qwazixMorpog_N9__, wanna try that?14:30
sledgesnot 100% looks of slider-ball, but you catch my drift14:30
Morpog_N9__will make a draft when i'm home14:30
Morpog_N9__but not sure if it looks out of place14:30
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qwazixno harm trying. I still find the rectangular one nice, but we can give some thought to a circular handle14:31
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sledgesqwazix, you mentioned 'handle', i thought it's nice if handle is consistent across sliders and switches, since they already have same consistent flat (rectangluar) background14:32
sledgesjust at thought :)14:32
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sledgesbut we have a clash with button row here ofc14:32
sledgeswhere the use of rectangular handle is inevitable..14:32
qwazixsledges, good point14:33
sledgesSage, off to you sir for further patternisation: https://github.com/faenil/NemoWaylandKickstart/blob/master/nemo-armv7hl-n950-rnd.ks14:34
qwazix(I really was viewing the silder-ball as the label, not the handle though)14:34
sledgesthat is true, since it pops out from the finger ;)14:34
sledgesusers might not know that14:34
qwazixmy original idea for the switch was http://play.qwazix.com/nemo/switch.png14:34
sledgesand interpret it as label14:34
sledgeswhich consequently will trigger that label to escape to the right ;)14:35
qwazix^^ please download and see in proper viewer14:35
qwazixfirefox messes it up, idk about chrom*14:35
sledgeschrome is fine ;)14:36
sledgesbut still opened it in gimp to center in white background14:36
Sagesledges: that works fine?14:37
qwazix:nod:, anyway, the idea was to be exactly like the slider, but then Morpog proposed to have that fading background effect, which looks cool, so we had to go with a white handle14:37
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sledgesSage, in the state it is - yes14:37
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qwazixsledges, see it in black bg if you got it in gimp14:37
qwazix(also keep in mind that numberless sliders won't have a bubble at all)14:38
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qwazix(which reminds me that I didn't mention that in the spec)14:38
sledgesor unpressed ones?14:38
Morpog_N9__yep, think so14:39
qwazixsledges, I was thinking to keep the number always, if there is one, but if you think otherwise we can discuss it14:39
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sledgesagree with you qwazix14:40
sledgesreturning to original Hurrian's idea14:40
sledgesglacier is circly14:40
sledges(think icons)14:40
qwazixthink buttons and windows in multitasking :P14:41
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qwazixIn fact the way I see it is that it has rectangles, and perfect circles, no rounded corners14:41
sledgesso circles are for icons14:42
sledgesand rectangles are for controls14:42
qwazix(mostly, but also for some labels that fit into them, notification numbers or the sliderball)14:42
sledgesyup, and the bullet bits on bottom-left (and top-left for logo(?)) : http://play.qwazix.com/grog/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/SystemUI.png14:43
qwazixI'm not sure I get what you're referring to14:44
sledges"Background services" and "Web browser"14:45
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qwazixah, yeah14:45
sledgesand the logo of loading (3 white circles and 1 blue)14:45
sledgesor whatever was on Hurrian's mind :))14:45
qwazixthough in reality I'm not sure how much the bullets will be used (it seems a specific app usecase to show colors of graph)14:45
sledgesyes we'll worry about that later for sure14:45
qwazixI like the loading thingie though, it looks fresh14:46
sledgesi just wanted you to understand my initial standpoint looking into that first design draft14:46
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sledgesthat everything was more circly14:46
sledgesand now it will be more edgy :)14:46
qwazixNot so much, the only changes are the slider and switch, which were breaking this no-rounded-corners "rule"14:47
qwazix(and they were also breaking the flat-controls "rule")14:47
qwazixor non-skeuomorphic to say it better14:48
Morpog_N9__well, my switch breaks abit with it too14:49
Morpog_N9__as it got that gradient on it14:49
Morpog_N9__same for vkb popper14:49
qwazixI don't intend to be annoying with the "rules", I'm just trying to explain why that "display" page in "unveiling glacier" looks out-of-place to me14:50
sledgesrules are good, i simply did not know/read them :")14:52
qwazixsome times it's okay to toy with the boundaries of the rules and just choose what looks better. Then look at the whole again from far away, spot the black sheep and fix them.14:52
sledgesand by first glance the majority of rounded object proposed "buttons are breaking the gradient-rounded-controls rule" instead :D14:52
qwazixMost awesome designs, follow _almost_ religiously some kinds of rules or guidelines, but break them where needed14:53
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qwazixI'm going home. Talk later.14:56
sledgesdo we have those rules/guidelines written out somewhere (i couldn't find them :( )? Sorry I jumped into the chat without knowing them :)14:56
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qwazixdon't be sorry, these kinds of discussions improve the concept, always14:56
sledgesis good then we have them not written out ;P14:57
qwazixand no, we don't have them, it's like I said, I made them up while trying to explain my general idea14:57
Morpog_N9__qwazix, seen sfietkonstanti's wiki page for nemo glacier status?14:57
sledgesexplained them mostly to Morpog_N9__ ;) so the intrinsic information was born; I like that approach and hence the chat we just had14:57
qwazixSome things just feel like right or wrong in a design, and then when you sit and think about why it is like that, there is indeed a reason. But you never can come up with the reasons first14:58
qwazixMorpog_N9__, not yet, I'll have a look once I reach home14:58
sledgescheers, ttyl :)14:58
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Merbotphaeron lbt sage stskeeps SR#425 Accepted promotion request15:03
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locusfso faenil is still milling together the first step :) ?15:12
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locusfhmm forgot the button states, will get to them right now15:38
Morpog_PCsledges, I think rounded slider looks not soo good15:39
Morpog_PCsame rounding as in old button: http://abload.de/img/slider-button-test-20qjdb.png15:42
Morpog_PCless rounding: http://abload.de/img/slider-button-test-1ulkdh.png15:42
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Morpog_PCeven more less rounding: http://abload.de/img/slider-button-test-3fxkiu.png15:42
Morpog_PCwhat do you think qwazix?15:43
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sledgesMorpog_PC, what about circle?15:44
Morpog_PCsledges, http://abload.de/img/slider-button-test-4b0p9d.png15:48
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sledgesbut need to see how it looks among other controls.....15:49
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locusfI've got a property bool pressed, how can I monitor its state in qml?15:56
locusfits on<property>Changed15:58
locusftoo easy15:58
Morpog_PCsledges, qwazix: http://abload.de/img/example44qf7.png15:58
sledgesgosh im ambivalent :))15:59
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qwazixMorpog, I admit I like the circular one16:07
qwazixBtw the dotted lines are not a visible component16:11
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sledgesnotwithstanding with all cons and pros that im ambivalent, i think circle is more touchable :)16:13
sledges(coming from icons idea as well -- all try to resemble a finger's projection on screen when touched)16:13
locusfhmm my graphics are all gone, I guess that rebase didn't work out too well :/16:15
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locusfMorpog_PC: did you guys reach consensus about the spacebar in the middle?16:26
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Morpog_MobileNot discusssed yet16:27
sledgesmy 2p16:28
sledgesstandard typewriter's position is16:28
sledgesASDF        JKL;16:28
sledges(left and right hand respectively, 4 fingers, thumbs for space)16:28
sledgesspace is right centered under those :)16:28
sledges(hence the bumps on F and J ;))16:29
sledges*space is centered right under those16:29
locusfhmm ok16:30
sledgessurely, vkb i not a typewriter, but layout is still from there16:30
Morpog_MobileSo center it and ignore hurrians layout16:31
Morpog_MobileJust move the comma left of space16:32
sledgestake the distance between S and L and center in there ;)16:32
Morpog_Mobilesledges: each row is centered16:32
sledgestake the distance between S and L and center the space key referencing there (this matches typewriter, but im not saying that's good or bad layout for vkb - im not an expert in that)16:34
sledgesespecially since this layout doesn't contain ;16:34
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sledgesso was only my 2p ;)16:34
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Morpog_PCwell ZogG_laptop had a point with that space should be centered, so that you can easily reach it from both sides while typing16:35
sledgesouch, where's G in hurrians layout? :DDDDDD16:35
Morpog_PChehe ;)16:35
sledgesyup, which ties in with typewriter's idea - same distance for each thumb16:36
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qwazix+1 for centered space16:41
locusfhmm now if the screenshot pr is merged I can update my lipstick and take a screenshot16:42
locusfhmm its not merged yet16:42
locusfits ok'd by w00t though16:42
Morpog_PCsledges, qwazix made it a bit smaller16:43
Morpog_PCbottom ones are smaller ones16:43
sledgesMorpog_PC, you read my mind ;P16:43
sledges+1 for smaller16:43
sledgeslocusf, is it blocked by this: https://github.com/nemomobile/lipstick/pull/87#discussion_r6514494 ?16:46
locusfyeah prolly16:46
sledgesthe headers are there, maybe w00t wants some additional ©s16:46
locusfdoesn't prevent me from merging in vesuris code16:46
sledgestrue, code's fine16:47
sledgespull the trigger then :D16:47
locusfalready compiling16:47
qwazixMorpog, smaller is better, yeah16:52
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locusfsledges: http://pastie.org/8352224 is this the correct way to call it?16:54
sledgesdunno :)16:54
locusfah youre no dbus guru16:54
w00tyou should learn qdbus, it's a lot easier than dbus-send in most cases16:55
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faenilholy crap16:59
faenillots of stuff happened while I was away16:59
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locusfw00t: I got to give it a parameter :/17:01
w00tlocusf: 'qdbus' without parameters list services, then give it a service, and it'll list methods, and so on17:01
w00tit's all fairly straightforward17:02
locusfah its just another arg17:02
locusfyeah it sure is17:02
locusfwell hmm it doesn't work :D17:02
w00thint: if you run 'export DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS=unix:path=/run/user/100000/dbus/user_bus_socket', you won't need to prefix it on every command17:03
w00tpath should be optional, and if provided, it wants a full path to save the image to17:04
w00tis your screen turned off?17:05
locusfeven with full path it slurs out this to journalctl17:05
locusfhmm yes it was17:05
w00tturn it on17:06
locusfturned on and now it worked17:07
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locusfMorpog_PC: https://www.dropbox.com/s/mzydaxaz4ivccub/foo-n9-pressed.png pressed looking good to you?17:08
locusfMorpog_PC: and popper size etc?17:09
locusfw00t: thanks for the help :=17:10
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Morpog_PClocusf, can you show popper on Q?17:11
Morpog_PChow is the lock of shit working?17:12
Morpog_PCone press = activate once, press again = capslock, press again back to normal17:12
w00tit could be argued that the lack of shit isa good thing :)17:13
locusfMorpog_PC: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/2g6iwmmcfhq2kf7/2ClUnaBsn-17:13
Morpog_PCROFLMAO :)17:14
locusfMorpog_PC: I'll upload to there17:14
Morpog_PCshift of course17:14
Morpog_PCpopper seems to be perfect17:14
locusfMorpog_PC: it changes just like that17:15
Morpog_PCand while being capslocked the icon is black on the key light pressed state (light blue)?17:16
locusfMorpog_PC: yes but without light blue tint at the moment17:16
Morpog_PCah ok, so icon is hardly noticeable I guess :)17:16
Morpog_PClooks pretty cool now17:17
Morpog_PCfunction press state works too already?17:17
locusfit should but I can't tell the differencec17:17
Morpog_PCit should be light blue17:18
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Morpog_PCfunction has it's own presses graphics17:18
faenilcrap, connection issues again :(17:18
locusfMorpog_PC: I know, I have changed it but I can't see that graphics state changes vs normal character keys17:19
Morpog_PCso a bug?17:19
Morpog_PCor did i upload some wrong graphics?17:19
Morpog_PClet me check17:20
locusfthe graphics are fine17:20
Morpog_PCah ok17:21
Morpog_PCback in a few minutes17:21
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locusfas I suspected, onPressed doesn't trigger on function keys17:26
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Morpog_PCbtw locusf, key sizes and spacings differ from spec it seems?17:33
Morpog_PCupdated switch spec on grog blog17:36
locusfhmm is there are ruler for gimp ..17:41
locusfah a measure tool17:43
locusfMorpog_PC: the key is 60x37 px17:43
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locusfspec says for portrait 60x3817:43
Morpog_PCsee :)17:44
locusfhow can you see 1px :D17:44
Morpog_PCnow check enter key or space key, there I saw it :)17:44
locusfah you got me on that17:44
locusfthe character keys are ok then17:44
faenilyesss, finally nice script for router done \o/17:44
Morpog_PCwell, one more px wouldn't hurt, would it? :)17:45
Morpog_PCthe bigger they are, the easier to type on them17:45
locusfenter key is thinner17:46
locusf46 vs 5417:47
locusfspace is 134 vs 14717:48
locusfwill leave space as is17:48
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locusfsince its even larger and that doesn't hurt17:49
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locusfsymbols is 95 vs 10217:50
locusfspacing is 10 px17:51
Morpog_PCspace should be a bit smaller, so that enter key can be bigger17:51
Morpog_PCwe have to make sure that we can add more keys for other languages17:52
Morpog_PClike in german, where we need 3 more keys17:52
Morpog_PC1 more key in row 2, 3 and 417:53
Morpog_PC not sure about other languages17:53
Morpog_PCI think german is maxing it out17:53
qwazixYeah and for Greek we need one more key in middle row17:53
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Morpog_PCwhich middle row? itÄS 4 rows :D17:54
qwazixmiddle row of letters17:54
Morpog_PCah ok17:54
Morpog_PCwell, that would be easily17:54
qwazixI think Hungarian might even beat German in no. of keys17:55
Morpog_PCone more key in 3rd row can be tricky17:55
locusfwe nordic men need öåä17:55
Morpog_PCqwazix, i have a look on harmattan VKB17:55
qwazixSome vkb's just use longpress for extra chars which is *not* optimal17:56
Morpog_PCmeh I can't choose hungarian in my harmattan variant17:56
Morpog_PCqwazix, sure, but Ö Ä and Ü are used that often in german that it's useful to have them as own keys17:57
lpotteralterego: pong17:57
qwazixHehe, i just see ? ? and ?17:58
locusfMorpog_PC: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/2g6iwmmcfhq2kf7/2ClUnaBsn-#lh:null-new-widths.png17:59
locusfnew widths fixes17:59
Morpog_PCdoes popper still fit on Q or P?17:59
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Morpog_PCbtw I love the screenshot function :)18:00
locusfme too18:00
locusfmakes my life so much easier18:00
Morpog_PCmuch better than blurycam shots :)18:00
locusfyeah + smudgy fingerprints18:00
locusfreal resolution etc18:01
qwazixBlackberry uses the full width and thus variable widths18:01
qwazixMaybe we should consider it?18:01
Morpog_PCon VKB?18:02
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Morpog_PChmm, well sounds like a horrible code job18:02
qwazixMaybe I didn't express it well... let me find a screenshot18:03
Morpog_PChow does it type on device with that keyboard locusf?18:04
qwazixSecond row has wider keys18:04
locusfMorpog_PC: I don't know too well as my fingers are fat :)18:04
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Morpog_PCqwazix, hmmmmmm, sounds irritating to get used to18:04
Morpog_PCwe should ask a Z10 user how it feels like18:05
qwazixIt's good (typing on the Z10 right now)18:05
Morpog_PCah lol18:05
Morpog_PConly problem I see is popper size18:06
Morpog_PCwould need a spacinf left right for whole area18:06
qwazixNot much better than harmattan though.18:06
qwazixAnd it has a slightly bigger screen which helps too.18:06
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Morpog_PCwell, if locusf wants to try it why not18:07
locusfah full width keys18:08
Morpog_PCvariable sized for keys based on width18:08
Morpog_PCsecond row would have bigger keys than first row18:08
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qwazixI'm not sure that the bigger keys are really worth losing the layout18:08
Morpog_PCalso it would be lost on keyboards with more keys18:09
Morpog_PClike german18:09
Morpog_PCor greek18:09
Morpog_PCok let's not do it :)18:09
qwazixExaxtly. On the N9 Greek is a perfect grid. On the Z10 the extra key is missing18:09
Morpog_PClocusf, can you try an extra key for row 2, 3 and 4?18:10
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Morpog_PCwould be good to see if it fits18:10
Morpog_PCwith existing spacings and key sizes of course18:11
Morpog_PCThat way we could do alternative keymappings easily18:11
qwazixWe shouldn't compromise usability of english layout for other layouts though18:12
qwazixIt doesn't matter if german or greek have slightly smaller keys to fit18:13
qwazix(or we could fake it)18:13
qwazixHave the same size keys and bigger mouseAreas when possible18:13
locusfMorpog_PC: please refresh the public folder18:15
Morpog_PCok, so no easy keylayouts :)18:16
qwazixMorpog, the blue special keys look too similar to the normal ones color-wise18:17
Morpog_PCfunction keys would need a smaller size if tehre is an extra button in 3rd row18:17
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Morpog_PCqwazix, well color taken from Hurrian mockup18:17
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qwazixIt looks like a mistake here on the Z10 and I assume that on worst screens it would be indistinguishable18:18
locusfit is quite difficult to tell on N918:18
qwazixI think we should lighten them a bit18:18
Morpog_PCthe pressed color was too much I guess18:19
qwazixOr a tad more saturation?18:19
qwazixI like the subtle difference, only it's too subtle18:19
Morpog_PCyou have 10px spacing between keys locusf?18:20
locusfMorpog_PC: yes18:20
Morpog_PCcan you try that more key layout with 9x spacing?18:20
Morpog_PCI specced it with 8 px18:20
locusfit is 10px on your spec too18:20
locusfon top part its 8px18:20
Morpog_PCbut 9px could already be enough to have that extra button in there properly18:20
Morpog_PCyou got different spacings for each row?18:21
Morpog_PCit would need less spacing to fit, so if it's alread 8 there then it won't work18:22
Morpog_PCqwazix, how about "Default blue state should be medium blue (#005f96)"18:23
locusfMorpog_PC: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/286182/extra-keys-9.png18:25
qwazixMorpog, looks good18:25
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qwazixOut for dinner, cya later.18:28
Morpog_PClocusf, looks worse :)18:30
Morpog_PCwe have to do smaller function keys for other layouts then18:31
Morpog_PCsame size as normal key should work for them18:31
locusfMorpog_PC: indeed18:31
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Morpog_PCso we will change function key pressed and disabled graphics18:32
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Morpog_PCerrr function non pressed and function disabled I wanted to say18:33
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Morpog_PCdo you want them now, or wait for github push/ pull18:41
locusfI'll wait for push/pull18:42
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Morpog_PCI hope thats not too aggressive19:03
Stskeepsheh, seeing you guys hack away reminds me of my own 'young' days :P19:04
* Stskeeps ponders idly when Glacier Ltd. will be created.19:09
dm8tbrthe cyanogenmod of sailfish? SCNR19:09
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locusfI'm hoping to have my masters thesis on open source mobile user experiences19:17
locusfglacier fits that quite nicely19:17
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ZogG_laptopi love glacier posts19:22
ZogG_laptoponly if qwazix would change sans fonts :P19:23
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locusfbtw sailfish too if the sources open up19:25
ZogG_laptopit wouldn't19:28
ZogG_laptopi don't think so at least19:28
ZogG_laptopbut why sans, why ? :)19:29
ZogG_laptoplocusf: btw thanks for imgs :)19:29
Morpog_PCZogG_laptop, which font would you prefer?19:29
ZogG_laptopMorpog_PC: droid :P19:29
Morpog_PCbtw ZogG_laptop http://play.qwazix.com/grog/?p=54019:30
Morpog_PCrefresh cache if don't see a difference19:30
ZogG_laptopi use Liberation on my laptop19:31
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locusfZogG_laptop: np19:31
ZogG_laptopNokia font was good on N919:31
ZogG_laptopha Morpog_PC btw you listed about space being in the middle on vrt kbd19:32
Morpog_PCZogG_laptop, there are few open source fans that have lots of weights19:32
Morpog_PCwell ZogG_laptop we discussed it :)19:32
Morpog_PCopen source fonts not fans :)19:33
ZogG_laptopi tweeted you but i missed discussion19:33
Morpog_PCdiscussion was in here19:33
Morpog_PCyeah I noticed that tweet ZogG_laptop, thats why we discussed it ;)19:34
ZogG_laptopmy point was about left/right hand thing and long/short thumb :)19:34
ZogG_laptopbtw any plans on autocorrection/compete?19:34
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Morpog_PCoooh, not sure if maliit does that already19:35
ZogG_laptopi think it does19:35
Stskeepsi'm not how it's done in framework but it's definately possible on top of it..19:35
ZogG_laptopat least on N9 it does19:35
Morpog_PCN9 bits are closed I think19:35
ZogG_laptopbut the question is if would be same ?19:35
ZogG_laptopi love swype to change language on one side, but on other is' not always good with more than 2 languages19:36
Morpog_PCsailfish solution is good19:36
Morpog_PClong press on space19:36
ZogG_laptopMorpog_PC: if you have anyone with Z10 you should see the concept of inside keyboard geastures19:36
ZogG_laptoplong press on space is android old solution19:37
Morpog_PCwell, thats a cool feature, but I'm not a coder .)19:37
ZogG_laptopand does it switch or does it brings pop-up?19:37
Morpog_PCpop up19:37
Morpog_PClike on N9 on some keys19:37
ZogG_laptopi know19:37
ZogG_laptopbut as you one on promoting concepts19:38
ZogG_laptopi thought i would just advice to check blackberry 10 keyboard19:38
Morpog_PCI have seen it already in videos19:38
Morpog_PCit's cool great stuff19:38
ZogG_laptopthey switch with long press too. but it select automatically last used before(useful for more than 2 langs)19:38
Morpog_PCbut I think we don't have the manpower for such stuff19:38
ZogG_laptopswype inside with 1 finger will delete 1 word19:39
ZogG_laptopwith 2 - 2 words19:39
Morpog_PCaaah ok, thought you were refering to autocorrection19:39
Morpog_PCqwazix has a Z10, so he could give us some insights19:39
ZogG_laptopMartinK as well19:40
ZogG_laptopfew geastures are just not well known :)19:40
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Morpog_PCqwazix, PR on maliit and switch changes19:45
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faenilStskeeps, I hope Nemo will continue as non-business project20:34
faenilas we see how it's becoming Sailfish, step by step :/20:34
faenilevening people anyway :)20:35
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ajalkaneOf course Nemo will be heavily influenced by Jolla's needs as long as most contributors are Jolla people (?)20:37
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faenilajalkane, of course...that was not my point ;)20:39
faenilmy point being Jolla is slowly shifting from community oriented to business oriented20:40
Stskeepsor reverse, in my view20:43
ajalkaneWhat do you base that worry on?  My superficial view is that it makes sense to be welcoming for coummunity contributions, but in the absence of them drive the project forward from business perspective.20:45
ajalkaneI don't have any insight on community involvement, but my understanding is that there's not yet enough "critical-mass" for Nemo to be community-driven20:47
Morpog_PCI agree with ajalkane20:50
Morpog_PCbut that could change if there are lots of sailfishos users that will dual boot with nemomobile :)20:50
Morpog_PCthe sd card and hopefully non locked bootloader in jolla device comes handy20:51
ajalkaneI think even lots of sailfishos users can dramatically change it, as sailfish uses nemo's middleware20:51
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faenilsorry, was watching TV :D20:56
ajalkanehow can that be more interesting than irc :-O20:57
faenilVideos of italian cops misbehaving :D20:57
ajalkaneaah... I know what you mean20:58
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faenilStskeeps, reverse? interesting20:59
faenilStskeeps, could you elaborate more on that?21:00
Stskeepsas in there may be a reach back to a golden middleway.. or something21:01
Stskeepsthat the direction isnt necessarily more business, in my virw21:02
faenilok, though "may be" and "necessarily" aren't exactly encouraging :( but I understand that you're not the one who decides21:03
Morpog_PCfaenil, maybe we should link to that page from frontpage of nemo area? https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Nemo/Glacier21:03
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Stskeepsyou dont really turn a large group of community people into corporate closed.source monsters in a year :P21:05
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faenilargh, freaking connection21:09
faenilStskeeps, slowly moving, I said21:10
Stskeepsyou dont really turn a large group of community people into corporate closed.source monsters in a year :P21:10
faenilyeah read from weblog ;)21:10
faenilI'm getting that impression...glad to know you don't think the same21:10
faenilas you may know by now, I'm very direct and honest when it comes to feedback, so I thought it'd be better to provide some before it's too late :P21:12
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Stskeepsmore on that at some other point.. now sleeping time21:14
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faenilargh, got to call technician again21:28
faenildm8tbr, you're networking expert21:28
faenilright? :)21:28
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Anssi|faenil, connection dropping?21:32
faenilyep, SNR issues21:32
faeniltechnician came twice already21:32
faenilswitched me to another line21:32
faenilbut still, SNR fluctuates21:32
faenilfrom 15db to 0db21:32
faenilI guess it's because phone line is not insulated21:35
faenilright now I have 1db SNR margin21:35
faenilabout to disconnected in a short time again21:35
Anssi|or nsa is having problems with their bugs. :)21:36
Anssi|just kidding :)21:36
Anssi|yeah, but maybe the wiring is just bad21:38
faenilyeah but go figure :(21:39
faenilI'd fix it myself if I could...21:39
faenilbuilt some script to build some log files in the meanwhile21:39
faenilso I can show them to the technician21:39
Anssi|what about attenuation  ?21:40
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