Friday, 2013-12-06

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GasBranderhi00:04
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sledgeshai00:05
GasBranderjust found the irc server and channel via maemo.og00:06
GasBrandern9 user :)00:06
sledgeswelcome GasBrander ! :)00:06
GasBranderthanks :D00:08
GasBranderim trying to get nemo working again grmbl00:09
sledgesgood good, many things changed since ;)00:10
GasBranderhaha00:10
GasBranderdo you mean the new version?00:10
GasBranderare you also a n9(00) user?00:10
sledgesthe new technology used00:10
sledgesn900:10
sledgesn900 is sitting on the desk looking at me (belonged to friend, now display always black ;), i'm still todo repairs on it)00:11
GasBranderhaha nice00:11
GasBranderi love the n90000:12
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GasBranderi have a usb port broken simcard problem and a broken stand :P00:12
GasBranderwhat do you run on your N9?00:13
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qwazix_echo 0 > /sys/devices/omapdss/display0/lpm enables low power screen on N900:15
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MFaro-Tusinoqwazix on nemo?00:15
qwazix_MFaro-Tusino, yep (on harmattan too)00:16
sledgesGasBrander: used as daily phone (harmattan), until i snapped usb socket. then months later used paintstripper gun to reflow a new one, and using to test nemo only at the moment00:16
MFaro-Tusinoyeah i knew it was on Harmattan, but didn't know it was on nemo00:16
* sledges tries00:16
qwazix_nemo doesn't have a low power screen interface, but setting that bit works00:16
qwazix_(makes everything 3bits color)00:17
MFaro-TusinoCool00:17
sledgesqwazix_: amazing!00:17
sledgesand framerate is horrible, but would be enough to play pacman :D (cc: alterego )00:17
qwazix_hehe, now try opening filemuncher00:17
sledgesi mean, scrolling and everything, still works :))00:17
GasBrandersledges did you really break the usb of the N9? are these also crappy made? or did you drive over it with your car while it was in the charger?00:18
MFaro-TusinoSo I am ref lashing Harmattan, doing a clean install of memo again00:18
sledgesGasBrander: something more like second option ;)00:18
MFaro-TusinoMy N9 seemed to have died half way through installing Sailfish yesterday, and I couldn't gain root access :/00:18
GasBrander:P00:18
qwazix_autocomplete was invented so you can have something to turn off after you get a new gadget00:19
sledgesqwazix_: filemuncher gone bananas00:19
qwazix_sledges, :P00:19
sledges:))00:19
sledgeszleepy times z)00:20
qwazix_yeah, I've got to go too00:20
sledgesnemo as alarm clock mmmm00:21
sledgeslpmmm00:21
sledges;)00:21
sledgesthanks qwazix_00:21
qwazix_i didn't do anything, just playing00:21
sledgesthat's the part of doing :)00:21
qwazix_(first time booted nemo on N9)00:21
GasBrandergoodnight sledges00:21
sledgesgnite00:22
qwazix_so I had to try something different00:22
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GasBranderis there anybody here who can help me with nemo? i have installed ubiboot and tarred nemo to /dev/mmcblk0p4.but after selecting 2.6.32.54 kernel there is only a black screen which i can only shutdown with pressing power button 10 sec:\00:30
GasBranderwhen booting00:30
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M4rtinKGasBrander: on N9 ?00:52
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vakkovGood morning! Is there a wayland n900 image or one needs to make his own .ks file06:05
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locusfsledges: sure, why?07:37
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stephgmorning everyone!08:18
Stskeepsmorn stephg08:18
stephghappy Friday!08:18
fk_lxstephg: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfVsfOSbJY008:22
fk_lx:-P08:22
stephgdear god08:22
stephg;)08:22
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wazdmoo all :)08:25
Stskeepsmoo wazd08:25
fk_lxwazd: hi08:25
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faenilm00000008:27
stephgmoooOOOooo08:28
niqtmorning08:28
wazdthe more I use I;;ustrator, the more I don't understand why is it so expensive08:28
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wazdLooks like a damn beta08:28
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fk_lxwazd: what isn't a beta today?08:32
wazdfk_lx: well, quite a few are being selled for $1K :D08:34
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valdur55All ok: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6528823/  ?08:56
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faenilvaldur55, no, definitely not09:01
faeniluninstall mesa and reinstall ti omap stuff09:01
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valdur55yea, after that. It didn't boot :D09:03
faenilvaldur55, meh -.p09:04
faenil:P09:04
valdur55stayed in nemo splash scren09:07
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faenilvaldur55, no wonder, you got rid of its graphics drivers :P09:10
valdur55;)09:12
valdur55and i used  zypper dup , as you see.09:12
faenilvaldur55, yeah I know, long lasting issue09:12
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faenilssu ur before dup should fix that09:12
valdur55why not zypper  up ?09:13
valdur55dam.. zypper ref09:13
faenilyes ssu ur + ref + dup09:13
faenilref refreshes the repository, ur updates the *list* of repositories09:13
valdur55ok :) i my mistake :D09:14
faenilthe problem is you're missing the repository with the ti-omap stuff, so when you dup it doesn't find omap stuff anymore and install its alternative, mesa09:14
faenilno it's a bug, you shouldn't need to do ur09:14
faenilbut we haven't got rid of that issue yet :)09:14
valdur55ok:)09:14
valdur55ok. booted nicely09:15
faenilcool :)09:15
wazdooook, my blackberry dev alpha B has just died :(09:15
valdur55not so cool.09:15
faenilwazd, it's a sign :D09:15
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wazdfaenil: I have no other phone on my hands, but otherwise yes :D09:15
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faenilwazd, :D what are you working on09:19
wazdfaenil: it was just lying still charging09:19
faenilwazd, no I meant graphics wise :)09:19
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valdur55Damnit.. i should learn words for english test.... I am to lazy for that and i play with nemo & harmattan09:30
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wazdfaenil: not much, basicaly developing grids for different DPIs09:34
faenilwazd, oki09:34
wazdfaenil: based on this: http://developer.android.com/design/style/metrics-grids.html09:34
wazdfaenil: since you can't do anything without this stuff :P09:34
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faenilwazd, :)09:35
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faenilwazd, so I guess you read qwazix_'s blog post about "u" ?09:44
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wazdfaenil: yep09:49
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sledgesmorn!10:18
wazdsledges: whoa10:18
sledgeslocusf: because the bug was not 100% fixed, now all done and dusted10:18
sledgesfaenil: valdur55: the issue should be sorted during very first boot (ssu ur is oneshot), but if anything goes wrong during first boot (as it happens often) - we're screwed :)10:21
faenilehehe10:21
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sledges(sounds too weird, because if oneshot is not run, it should run again on next reboot...)10:23
sledgesso needs to be looked into..10:24
M4rtinKcareful with oneshot, IIRC its naming is quite misleading & its documentation not that clear10:25
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locusfsledges: ok10:29
sledgesM4rtinK: thanks; i'd think it works, because it executes many other tasks successfully. just need to look. I think it executes ssu ur too, but the ssu itself fails to add adaptation0 during that early run for some reason10:29
* sledges speculations speculations10:30
* sledges back to paid work :)10:30
faenil:)10:31
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xavinuxhi people11:04
stephgahoy11:05
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faenilhi11:10
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sledgeshy11:28
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xavinuxsledges: very nice video of glacer UX11:48
xavinuxlooks very nice11:48
sandy_lockesledges: xavinux : Vidéo ? Where ???11:49
xavinuxhere http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKiGdIQraCQ11:50
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sledgesthanks xavinux12:04
sledgesis just the beginning ^_^12:05
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zbenjaminguys btw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfVsfOSbJY012:30
zbenjaminfk_lx: damned you were faster ;)12:30
fk_lxzbenjamin: hehe :-)12:32
zbenjaminfk_lx: you did have that link in your clipboard since yesterday didn't you? ;)12:33
zbenjaminnow after i heared that i need to dig up some really really black black metal ;)12:35
sledgesblack friday metal12:37
fk_lxsledges: +112:37
fk_lxbtw. guys are you aware that Rebecca Black took part in Kate Perry videoclip about Friday12:38
fk_lxhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlyXNRrsk4A12:39
fk_lxshe is there at the party at some point ;-)12:39
fk_lxfor those who don't want to go through a whole video clip check at 1:4512:42
zbenjaminfk_lx: wtf rly ;) is this the friday sequel ? ;)12:44
fk_lx:-D12:44
fk_lx#nemomobile has become Rebecca's Black fanclub ;-)12:45
zbenjaminlolol http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pi00ykRg_5c12:47
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sledgesxD12:50
zbenjamindo you guys know this ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgSqw4z4FSw12:50
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faenilfk_lx, yeah, I always wondered why she was part of perry's video xD13:23
faeniluntil I heard of her song13:23
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sledgeswazd: we are having a wild thought of apps packaging up SVGs, and resizing to PNGs on-install ;)13:46
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locusfhmrh I don't remember my mic2 command line out loud, so can't create a viable image13:59
locusfWarning: repo problem: nothing provides kernel-adaptation-n950 needed by pattern:nokia-n950-support-wayland-.noarch,14:00
sledgeslocusf: sudo mic cr fs nemo-armv7hl-n950-rnd.ks --pkgmgr=zypp --arch=armv7hl --tokenmap=MER_RELEASE:latest,NEMO_RELEASE:latest,SSU_RELEASE_TYPE:rnd,FLAVOUR:devel --copy-kernel --pack-to=nemo-n950-rnd-20131206.tar.bz214:07
sledgesmic2?14:07
sledgesO_o14:07
ZogG_laptop._.14:08
locusfgot it, thanks14:08
locusfmagnet:?xt=urn:btih:ZMI5LQZQRNXYQPPWAZTA62YKVA2BSKZY&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.openbittorrent.com%3A80%2Fannounce14:13
locusfsledges: ^14:14
sledgesshazaam! :)14:14
sledgesthanks locusf14:14
locusfnp :)14:14
sledgeswiki updated14:17
sledgesstanding by for tbr ;)14:17
sledgesyou'll get a beer from me for this mess :)14:17
sledgesduring fosdem14:17
locusflol thx :)14:18
vgradere fosdem, is there a get together?14:18
Stskeepsi'm going, at least14:18
* fk_lx also plans to go14:19
sledgesnemo huddle :)14:19
ZogG_laptopi wish i could go14:19
* w00t won't promise anything14:21
vgradethere was a deal on eurostar in jan feb but excluded the fosdem weekend.14:21
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wazdsledges: it would be too blurry I must say :(14:21
w00tevery year when I promise I'll go to fosdem, it never frigging happens14:21
Stskeepsw00t: go this year or i will spank you14:22
Stskeeps:P14:22
wazdsledges: you have to fit image to the pixel grid (at least partially) for the best experience14:22
w00tStskeeps: last year i was at a wedding! totally not my fault14:22
wazdsledges: and if you just rasterize svg blindly it would be blurred for sure14:22
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ZogG_laptopwazd: \o14:25
wazdw00t: it's yours unless it was actually your wedding :D14:25
wazdZogG_laptop: o/14:25
fk_lx:-)14:25
wazdZogG_laptop: My BB died today :D14:25
wazdand now it has a very intresting feature - it's getting warm with battery inserted14:26
ZogG_laptopwazd: i saw the tweet14:26
wazdok, I have to visit operator's office to switch simcards one more time, bbl14:28
sledgeswazd: thanks for that input, can't wait to PoC nevertheless it's a playground14:29
sledges:)14:29
wazdsledges: and btw it will not save much space or anything, cause usually icons are made with heavy raster effects so svg will still contain high res rasterized layers14:32
wazdsledges: like, how would you imagine something like this vectorized :D https://itunes.apple.com/ru/app/real-racing-3/id556164350?mt=814:33
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sledgeswazd: im talking where applicable14:37
sledges95% cases14:37
sledgesand it's not about saving space14:37
wazdsledges: Do I understand it right and we're talking about app icons?14:38
wazdsledges: cause if I am, then I don't know what 95% are you talking about: https://play.google.com/store/apps/category/GAME?hl=ru14:40
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sledgeswe are talking about all graphics that will scale with the 'u'14:41
sledgesim not game-oriented, so 95% was coming my personal phone use case14:43
sledgesessentially - theme graphics and stock apps icons14:44
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wazdsledges: it's not a big deal for a descent designer to create 4 sizes of each icon, it's not as hard as it might look, especially when you have a vector source for it :)14:46
wazdsledges: so it would rather be just extra-work for programmers and a semi-descent result in the end14:47
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rcgwazd, well, taking what you totally out of context ;) : so many things are "just" some "extra work", i lost track about it :D14:56
rcg*what you said14:56
sledgeswazd: we are not going android way of 4 sizes14:58
sledgeswhy copycat? ;P14:58
sledges'u' can be any float14:59
sledgesas per qwazix_'s blog - nemo aims to be on any device form factor (we'll think later about navigational aspects)15:00
wazdsledges: it's not copycating, it's, well, logic, or mathematics, call it whatever you like :)15:00
fk_lxisn't the 'u' concept similar like one on Ubuntu Touch?15:00
sledgeswhether it will be semi-decent15:00
sledgesPoC will tell15:00
sledgessurely, you are giving early warning, due to grids you are reading about15:00
sledgesbut still that's not enough to take wind out of our sails ;)15:01
sledgesit's a playground, and i will repeat myself, i (or anyone else who's burning with desire to do it) can't wait to try that svg game, even if we crash and burn afterwards15:02
wazdsledges: I'd rather invest all of possible free (designer's)into comming up with some crazy exciting concept for homescreen15:03
sledgesim not a designer15:03
wazdsledges: That's why I've pointed that correction out :)15:03
wazdsledges: test is always a good idea :)15:03
wazdsledges: especially if you're passionate about it15:03
wazdsledges: it won't harm to test and fail in our situation, so we can do virtually anything we want :)15:04
wazdsledges: unless we have a deadline tomorrow :D15:04
sledges+115:04
wazdsledges: so you're messing up with interesting coding concepts, I'm messing around with logo and color schemes and backgrounds, it stretches the imagination quite well.15:05
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sledgesdam rite ;)15:10
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wazdsledges: speaking of which, are you fine with current quite an android 4+ looks of Glacier?15:11
dalecoopero/ peops15:12
dalecooperwazd: what do you propose then ?15:12
wazddalecooper: \o15:12
dalecooperhave you a draft to show suggestions ?15:12
sledges4+ looks are as long as blue controls go15:12
sledgesbut that's negligible compared to the rest15:13
dalecooperexcept from the textfields, I don't see android 4+ in glacier15:13
wazddalecooper: I can definitely come up with something if you let me :D15:13
sledges(in my very personal opinion i liked original hurrian's mockup the most, with embossed icons+controls; but most of us desided to go flat ;))15:13
faenilI was about to say "who are you dalecooper ?" :D15:14
sledges:D me too15:14
dalecooperlol15:14
dalecoopersorry15:14
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sandy_lockeit's me look ^:D15:14
sledgesandroid 4+ on/off switches look like a small version of our buttons *g*15:15
sandy_lockeemboss can be good, but skeuomorphic is dangerous15:16
wazdsledges: it looks as an android as long as someone sees the UI in your hands and asks "oh, is it android?"15:16
wazdsledges: guess what will happen right now :)15:17
sledgesciting Hurrian : "It’s a primarily high-contrast UI with light, airy text on dark backgrounds, borrowing heavily from contemporary design paradigms : Android 4.x <...>"15:18
wazdsledges: oh, that makes sense :)15:18
wazdsledges: so, are you happy with it? I'm just asking for an opinion :)15:19
wazdsledges: no catch :D15:19
sledges15:13 < sledges> but that's negligible compared to the rest15:19
sandy_lockebut wazd, if you can come up with an awsome UI concept, I want to see it15:19
wazdsandy_locke: I can come up with multiple ones for you to choose :)15:19
sandy_lockebut we need sth if we have to consider changing *everything* !15:19
sledgeseveryone's free to play wazd ;)15:20
sandy_lockebecause this is what you're proposing, changing all that we made until now...15:20
wazdsandy_locke: par example have you been in here when I was showing my "zooming" concept?15:20
sandy_lockenope, shoot a link15:20
* sledges imho needs to see that zoom in action :/15:20
sledgesand that was 'feel' not the 'look' you were demonstrating wazd ;)15:21
wazdsledges: yeah, it works better in my mind for sure :D15:21
wazdsandy_locke: a sec15:21
wazdsledges: are you good at Qt? Mind to create the most simple PPoC demo?15:21
wazdPoC*15:22
sledges(i like the navigational concepts of glacier, it can be skinned unlike any android, and we -are- making glacier easily skinnable - breeze will be the first candidate)15:22
wazdlike just a gesture test15:22
sledgeswazd, gladly, but i need to be better at Qt/QML to make this PoC in an acceptable timeframe ;)15:23
wazdsandy_locke: in order of zooming out with edge-swipe up: 1) https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/96361817/Jolla/Goldfish%20UI/1.png  2) https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/96361817/Jolla/Goldfish%20UI/2.png 3) https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/96361817/Jolla/Goldfish%20UI/3.png15:23
wazdsledges: no rush at all :D15:23
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wazdsledges: anything would be better than these lousy images15:24
sledgeswell, if we linger forever, current concept will simply go ahead ;P15:24
sandy_lockewazd: yeah, I see where you're getting at15:24
wazdsandy_locke: the UI is sorta "behind" the data of the app15:25
sandy_lockeit's nice, only it needs for devs to design their apps with this spec in mind15:25
sandy_lockealthough I like the concept15:26
wazdsandy_locke: it has a "forced bar" feature (as seen with media player) for bottom/top bar to be always visible15:26
sandy_lockeonly bottom bar is forced in your example15:27
sandy_lockefull zoom don't show top bar15:27
wazdsandy_locke: well, imagine the same transparent panel on the top :)15:27
sandy_lockeif top and bottom bar are always vsisible it almost kills the concept IMHO15:28
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wazdsandy_locke: yes, but it's the "transitional" solution15:28
sandy_lockebecause there's almost no point in unzooming (or zooming from 2 to 1)15:28
sandy_lockewhat do you mean ?15:29
sandy_lockeyou mean the transition is the concept, right ?15:29
wazdsandy_locke: if you need to somehow port your android UI 1to1 to Nemo15:29
wazdsandy_locke: consider it as stupid as "console app"15:30
sandy_lockeI don't follow15:30
wazdsandy_locke: well, you're not forced with a stick to use the feature of fullscreen15:30
wazdsandy_locke: you can use it partially or don't use at all15:31
wazdsandy_locke: but users will not appreciate it sometimes15:31
sandy_lockeyes ofc15:31
sandy_lockebut the idea is good if toolbars change from one state to the other15:31
sandy_lockethat's what I was saying15:31
wazdsandy_locke: ah, of course they are :)15:32
sandy_lockenot in your example, but I guess it shows the concept anyhow ;)15:32
wazdsandy_locke: it's that media player type that is not quite as demonstrative15:32
sandy_lockewazd: you'd have to show the concept using several apps examples to be constructive, otherwise it's just a proposal for media player app, you see ?15:33
sandy_lockeyou have to show how it could be implemented OS wide15:34
wazdsandy_locke: these pictures were not supposed to be shown anyway so it's all I have got right now15:34
sandy_lockeofc no pb with that15:34
sandy_lockebut you see where I'm getting at15:34
wazdsandy_locke: it was just a showcase that I can come up with something different if you want15:35
sandy_lockeright now I like the concept, but don't see how to implement it on other aspect of the o15:35
sandy_locke*OS15:35
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wazdsandy_locke: I think I'd be able to create some HTML demo15:36
wazdsandy_locke: for all to behold with different apps :D15:36
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sandy_lockethat'd be nice :)15:36
sandy_lockebtw, I saw your discussion with qwazix the other day, about what our goal is when we propose new concepts15:36
sandy_lockeand I suggest you to read qwazix 's blog about that15:37
sandy_lockewe explain a lot of our intentions there15:37
wazdok, I guess I've read everything already, but sure :)15:38
sandy_lockewe do not change UI concepts just to change them, we try to answer some user's concernes, begining by ours15:38
wazdsandy_locke: that's what I was actually saying back then15:38
sandy_lockemaybe I misread you then15:39
wazdsandy_locke: about innovation for the sake of innovation15:39
sandy_lockemmmh...15:39
sandy_lockethen you don't understand15:39
wazdsandy_locke: and solving current problems and user concerns15:39
sandy_lockeanswer user's concerns is not innovation for innovation15:39
sandy_lockeit's enhancement15:40
wazdsandy_locke: no I understand it totally15:40
wazdsandy_locke: We were arguing about bottom status bar15:40
wazdsandy_locke: my point was that "it's down there cause it's different from others" is not a valid reason to do it15:40
wazdand don't fix what's working and so on15:41
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sandy_lockebut it is not "there cause it's different from others"15:41
sandy_lockewe try to answer concerns here15:41
wazdsandy_locke: I asked everyone what was wrong with previous generations of top statusbars15:41
sandy_lockea rant to other statusbar that do not allow to access conncectivity quickly15:42
wazdsandy_lockeL nobody answered15:42
sandy_lockewhen you need to connect to a wifi network for instance, you always have to go to prefs pane15:42
sandy_lockewith our statusbar, it's two tap away15:42
wazdsandy_locke: that's what statusbar for, to show statuses, not to hold all possible settings in the world15:43
sandy_lockemost users don't just turn wifi on or off most of the time15:43
sandy_lockethey want to select their wifi network when on the go15:43
wazdsandy_locke: it's two taps away in harmattan, maemo 5, maemo 4, maemo 3...15:43
sandy_lockethat's where you are stubborn wazd ;)15:43
wazdsandy_locke: no, you don't answering my question15:44
sandy_lockein harmattan & al, it still opens pref pane15:44
wazdsandy_locke: My question is "what is wrong with top statusbars"15:44
wazdsandy_locke: no it's not15:44
wazdsandy_locke: it opens AP list15:44
wazdwith connect button15:45
sandy_lockeinside pref pane ;)15:45
sandy_lockecheck again ;)15:45
wazdsandy_locke: een if it's inside of devils headquarters, I need two taps to connect15:45
wazdeven*15:45
sandy_lockeok15:45
wazdsandy_locke: so there's no improvement on that side15:46
sandy_lockebut is not the whole point of designing a UI ? changing stuffs to be more user friendly ?15:46
sandy_lockeyes, because it's not only about wifi15:46
sandy_lockeit offers enhanced controls quickly for all connectivity including battery15:47
wazdsandy_locke: I have to leave you for a bit, bbia 30 minutes, sorry for that :)15:47
sandy_lockeok no pb15:47
sledgesstatusbar on bottom is for no thumb stretchers15:50
sledgeswazd was right about covering the bottom screen with thumb's joint15:50
sledgesbut that applies only for n9 that im now holding in my hand15:50
sledgesbecause of its size15:50
sledgessamsung galaxy nexus is fine (even though its only a bit wider than n9, the difference for thumb covering i huge)15:51
sledges*is15:51
sledgesbut15:52
sledgesall these cases are only when the phone (in my test - n9 & gn) is resting comfy in your palm15:53
sledgesmeans that it's edge is touching your palm, and not balancing on fingers15:53
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sledgeswhen one day i will use glacier bottom status bar on n9, i will have to subconsciously move the phone out from the palm to rest more onto fingers, on order to reveal contents from under the thumb15:54
sledgeson gn it will work fine out of box15:54
sandy_lockegn ?15:55
sledgesgalaxy nexus15:56
sandy_lockebecause n9 screen is too small you think ?15:56
sledgesphone's width15:56
sledgesyou cup n9 phone in your palm15:57
sledgesim not saying anything above is an issue15:58
sandy_lockenot if statusbar is still displayed when thumb is 10/20px above it15:58
sledgeswe need a survey how firmly people hold their phones :D15:58
sandy_lockeit's all about implementation after that...15:58
sledgesprobably depends if they are on the street, checking status bar on n9 might be dangerous, sine you have to slide phone out of your grip a bit15:59
sandy_lockeyeah, maybe for that statusbar should be at top, not bottom...15:59
sledgessandy_locke: if the phone is cupped in your hand, no matter how high your thumb is, the joint will cover the bottom-right of the screen (i.e. the clock :O)15:59
sandy_lockeI think I don't hold my phone like you do ;)16:00
sledgesor maybe status bar needs to be triangular in the bottom-left corner ;) (lefthanded people will kill us, but we could have a setting about phone's handedness why not ;))16:00
sledgessandy_locke: :D can be, i used gn every day, and that is resting in my palm16:00
sandy_lockeI hold it on my fingers, with my little finger holding the bottom of the phone, so the thumb has all latitude to work on the screen16:00
sledgesi forgot how i used to use n9 nO16:01
sledgeshint hint: i heard many left handed users moaning about android they used ;)16:02
sandy_lockeI have to go sledges , bb in 1h or so16:02
ryukafalzchecking how I use my own gn, and it seems to differ based on what hand I hold it in o.o16:02
sledgesso, if most peopl hold phone by fingers, like you sandy_locke , i see no issue for bottom status bar at all16:02
sandy_lockebut yes, we should think about left handed people when speccing16:02
ryukafalzmaybe I'm just weird16:03
sledgessandy_locke: or add an option, and  theui will adapt!16:03
sledges;)16:03
sledges*the ui16:03
sandy_lockeyes, that's what I meant16:03
sandy_lockean option16:03
sandy_locke:)16:03
sledgesspeak later, this interesting discussion!16:03
sandy_lockeyup, I'll be back ;)16:03
sledgesi agree, in most cases i hold the phone on fingers16:13
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valdur55oh yea... i am left handed :)16:16
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faenil<--- left handed16:19
sledges\o16:21
sledges;)16:21
sledgesthe biggest complaint i had from a lefty is that most info is on the left side of screen (like people's pictures in contacts list etc - many bits i cant remember now)16:22
wazdI'm back16:23
sledges(think about all left aligned list elements, too *g*)16:25
sledgeswb wazd o/16:25
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valdur55or there must be settings for that.16:25
sledgesyea that's what we were thinking - a setting16:27
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wazdspeaking of different concepts from my mind16:37
wazdI've been showing some stuff to jolla guys during my woderful Hel vacation16:38
wazdSo it looks like this16:39
wazdSome sort of "Bridge", that you see when you minimize an app: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/96361817/PDF/bridge.png16:39
wazdto the right there are infinite pages of opened apps: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/96361817/PDF/feed-3.png16:40
wazdSwipe to the left - feed view: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/96361817/PDF/feed-1.png16:40
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wazdswipe to the left a bit more - detailed feed view: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/96361817/PDF/feed-2.png16:40
wazdso you can read just one category if you have lots of info running at you16:41
wazdthat concept eventually evolved in infinite pages of widgets to the left and pages of apps to the right16:43
wazdhttps://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/96361817/PDF/widgets2.png16:44
sledgesnice!16:45
sledgesthey don't even have to be infine pages - just infinite scroll ;)16:46
sledgesso the feeds now live on top?16:46
wazdsledges: sorta :D16:46
wazdsledges: the idea was to bring back that ability of the phone to connect you to the other person as seamlessly and quick as possible16:47
wazdright now you have to jump around like a hopper to have 3-4 chats and do something else16:47
wazdMy vision was to collect all your chats and feeds on top16:48
faenilwazd, the bridge looks a lot like bb10, ubuntu touch and iOS together :D16:48
wazdso you can always bring it up and down without jumping around your apps16:48
wazdfaenil: sorta kinda yes :)16:48
wazdfaenil: well, everything is something with something with something :)16:48
sledges-android16:49
faenillol16:49
sledges:DD16:49
wazdit's more like maemo 5 + BB1016:49
wazdand that's it :D16:49
wazdand that chatting hub is sorta kinda has its roots in Facebook's shell16:50
wazdlike really not quite obvious ones :)16:50
faenil:D16:50
wazdbut they thought of facebook, and I've been struggling with all the stuff16:51
wazdfor example, you have 4 chats on harmattan16:51
wazdTry to zoom out16:51
wazdeven if you had labels, it would look like a mess16:51
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wazdBB10's hub is a really nice idea but terrible realization (IMO)16:53
wazdwell, not terrible, but a bit illogical16:53
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sledgesi can see how many of these nice concepts can land in our effort16:57
wazdsledges: well, I hope so :D17:00
wazdsledges: btw, about scroll vs paging17:00
wazdsledges: if your information has some sort of block structure (like grid), not "flow" one, then it should page instead of scroll17:01
sledgesbut if you want to get to the end of it quickly17:01
sledgeslike list of infinite multitasking apps xD17:02
wazdsledges: For example, harmattan's launcher is fundamentally wrong17:02
wazdsledges: just swipe quickly 3 or 4 times17:02
wazdsledges: and you can see this mistake is fixed in Sailfish btw :P17:02
wazdsledges: cause your finger can memorize much broader information like "one swipe up + bottom right icon"17:03
wazdinstead of "somewhere on the right"17:03
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sledgesnod17:07
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qwazix_wazd, that's a matter of preference17:09
qwazix_I find harmattan much better than BB10 in that matter17:09
eekkelundcongratz solving that freeze bug!!:)17:09
qwazix_(especially since new apps always land in the last page)17:09
valdur55eekkelund: it is not finished...17:10
sledgeseekkelund: thanks17:11
sledgesvaldur55: it is ;)17:11
sledgesvaldur55: still problems? :}17:11
eekkelundawesome!:)17:11
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valdur55Ok. is seems to me that i have another bug...17:14
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wazdqwazix_: there's a way to quickly jump to the end in BB1017:15
qwazixyeah, hit the tiny bullet17:15
qwazixI like way better to just swipe quickly anywhere to get to the end17:15
sledgesvaldur55: im all ears ^_^17:17
* sledges ponders about the slingshot get-to-the-end-quickly idea ;) <- wazd qwazix 17:18
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qwazixsledges, swipe to the other direction?17:18
sledgesexploiting the list top/bottom rubbery behaviour17:18
wazdsledges: actually you're reading my mind17:18
sledgesqwazix: yes17:18
wazdsledges: but I've found it too confusing17:18
qwazixsledges, why not loop then?17:19
valdur55It is related to sailfish. I installed packages. used dup ... Booted first time to welckome screen and ended up with funny screen ( only backroud)17:19
sledgesbut that conflicts with contextroller invention17:19
sledgesqwazix: ^ :))17:19
sledgesvaldur55: a ok :) im not testing sailfish on n9 however :/17:19
valdur55after reboot, it stucked in Nemo boot screen. Then i tared nemo rootfs over it.17:20
wazdsledges: my idea was when you tap and hold with finger and drag down or up some kind of rectangle appears to show you direction of the shot and you release it17:20
valdur55Then it worked first boot and then failed second boot.17:20
sledgeswazd: angry birds scrolling :D17:20
wazdsledges: list can even "vibrate" a bit to show tesion :)17:20
wazdsledges: but this idea needs a serious PoC demo :D17:21
wazdsledges: and I'm too dumb for these things so I have to test everything in my mind17:21
wazdsledges: and in my mind I didn't quite got all that reversed directions thing17:22
wazdsledges: but it would be quite an eye-candy for sure :D17:22
sledgesbut it also conflicts with pulleys, and esp with pull down to refresh paradigm17:23
sledgeswhich i think should be consistent throughout17:23
sledgesand could read about contextroller in grog ;) is what it conflicts with firstly17:23
wazdsledges: well, since you'll have to wait a bit for rectangle to appear, I don't think it's much of a problem17:24
sledgeslocusf: ping17:24
qwazixwazd, then you conflict with long-tap action on the item under your finger17:24
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sledgeslocusf: thanks for the switch, looks ok when off, but im getting this: http://i1260.photobucket.com/albums/ii567/sledgas/mer/nemo/19700101012519_zpsd1e9b3a4.png17:25
wazdqwazix: you tap an item, drag it down and wait for rectangle or any other marker to appear, then release17:25
wazdqwazix: not exactly tap and hold17:26
qwazixisn't that too complicated?17:26
wazdqwazix: exactly17:26
wazdqwazix: see my initial thought :P17:26
wazdit's even more confusing that you should pull down to scroll up :D17:27
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qwazix:nod:17:27
wazdwrong17:27
wazdeven I can't say it properly :D17:27
qwazix:)17:27
wazdyou should pull down to scroll down but that's not what you initially see on the scren on tap and drag17:28
qwazixgot to go17:28
qwazixcya later17:28
wazdqwazix: cya17:28
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locusfsledges: ok, cant see the image though17:32
locusfstupid tablet17:32
sledgeshuh :)17:32
locusfconnectbot wont open the url17:33
sledgeshmph, locusf , shall i put it on dropbox?17:33
locusfits not about the hosting site :)17:34
sledgeswazd: you sarcasm pest :D well remember when you overscroll in harmattan, it pops back ;)17:34
locusfits about the inability for me to just open it in my tablets browser17:34
sledgesi thought it confuses with this particular url or something17:34
sledgesas i would feel pity if you cant open irc links on your tablet :)17:34
sledgesso i can do tinyurl :D17:34
locusfit happens in twitter too17:35
sledgesso what tablet you have is in desperate needing of a new interactive OS ? ;)17:36
locusfhmm actually tweetcaster might work, can you dm me the link?17:36
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sledgeshttp://tinyurl.com/4locusf17:37
sledges*g*17:37
locusfdidn't work17:37
sledgesofc17:37
sledgesyou need to type it by hand17:37
sledges:D17:37
locusflol17:37
locusfok can see now17:39
locusfso the label covers it partially?17:39
sledgeserm17:41
sledgesthe ball falls out of the groove17:41
locusfthat too17:42
sledgesthere is no label in the spec17:43
sledgesdoes checkbox has label?17:44
vakkovGood morning! A quick question - is there wayland support in nemo for the n900 ?17:44
vakkovoops - evening *17:45
faenilvakkov, long story short: the n900 wayland driver was taken and updated for the current wayland and made it work for n95017:45
faenilnone did the same to update it to work for n900 with current wayland17:46
faenilso there is something which used to work (I think) with wayland on n900, but it has to be updated to support the updated wayland17:46
faenilvakkov, there is also the chance that the n950 driver works with small changes, who knows :)17:47
locusfsledges: on the demo page yes17:47
locusfits just for show though17:47
vakkovfaenil, thanks! Can you give me some links for these drivers or somewhere where I can read more17:52
faenilvakkov, enjoy https://github.com/nemomobile/ti-omap3-sgx-wayland-wsegl/17:53
sledgeslocusf: i mean, does upstream qqc checkbox exposes itself with built-in label?17:57
sledgesvakkov: abandoned effort: nemo blinking cursor on n900, find kickstart there: https://twitter.com/NemoMobile/status/37522883438930329617:58
sledgesniqt was on it (there should be a post on tmo as well, but probably not more info of what faenil told you already)17:59
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locusfsledges: yes18:03
sledgeslocusf: ok, then we'll follow that18:07
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vakkovthanks for the info guys18:30
faenilnp :)18:31
faenilvakkov, let us know if you get it working :)18:31
faeniland if you need help while working on it, Stskeeps and w00t are probably the best bets18:31
vakkovfirst I must get a working n900 since mine died an year and a half ago ... and after looking at the market i came to the conclusion that i still need an n900.. even though it is no more modern :D18:32
wazdoh, and btw guys, arent you tired of circle-shaped icons yet? :D18:33
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wazdFirefox OS, Tizen, MIUI at some point of time as I remember, meizu also have 50/50 circle|square18:35
faenilvakkov, lol :) do notice anyway that the wayland implementation for n9/n950 is not in good shape18:35
faenilno good performance and no vsync, for instance18:35
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vakkovhttps://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/N9_Kernel_update_project19:21
vakkovdoes sb know what happened to this project?19:21
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faenilvakkov, last time I heard it was Hurrian saying that essentially we're missing someone to make a device tree19:38
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vakkovif only it was possible for the n900..19:41
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faenilvakkov, I can send you the n950 if you *will* get that kernel booting19:42
faenilit boot already actually19:43
faenilbut, well, finish the plans19:43
faenil*my* n95019:43
faenil(but I want it back afterwards :D)19:43
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vakkovlast time i messed with kernels was to patch the nitdroid one to run via u-boot ..19:58
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filip_n9vakkov, faenil I'm probably the last one who made any progress with 3.520:08
filip_n9orientation, audio and couple of other things are done20:09
filip_n9tried to get charging to work but I'm stuck20:10
faenilfilip_n9, ah great to know :)20:10
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filip_n9N9 resets when nemo goes to sleep with someting plugged into usb20:11
leadgot a really funny question?20:11
filip_n9someone with working serial console shoul take crack at it20:12
filip_n9if someone is interested I can send patches mades so far20:13
faenilfilip_n9, I see..20:13
leadcan someone please tellme how to install .rpm apps on nemo. I have them in the device no wifi to download now.20:14
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faenillead, zypper install <file>20:20
faenillead, or rpm -ivh <file>20:21
leadhave done that and it aint working20:21
leadrpm20:21
faenillead, ?20:21
faenilif it doesn't work then you're missing dependencies most likely20:21
leadyes20:22
faenilthen install the dependencies :)20:22
leadan I need internet connection to get them right!them ri20:22
leadtotally what I am avoiding20:23
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sledgeslead: do tethering to device: https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Nemo/USBNetworking20:36
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lead20:41
leadstill don't know what to do20:42
sledgesif you can ssh via usb20:43
sledgeson host PC do:20:43
sledgesiptables -A POSTROUTING -t nat -s 192.168.2.15/32 -j MASQUERADE20:43
sledgesecho 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward20:43
sledgeson N9 do:20:43
sledges/sbin/route add default gw 192.168.2.1420:43
sledgesecho nameserver 8.8.8.8 > /etc/resolv.conf20:43
sledgessimples :)20:44
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sledgesbbll21:00
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me_hmmm Mikael Q Kuisma23:17
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