Tuesday, 2014-10-21

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Stskeepsmorn tbr05:36
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faenilmorning o/07:35
hedayatfaenil: morning :)07:43
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locusfhedayat: I'm very interested on how your solution works in practise :)09:50
filippzhello o/10:13
filippzlocusf, faenil: I've set up my N9 with the files from jolla-session-qt5 (including autologind binary) and I'm in lipstick for more than 20 minutes without problems10:13
locusffilippz: nice10:13
filippzI'm not sure how to proceed - autologind is not FOSS, and to be honest, I'm not sure what exactly it does. Maybe we could use some different mechanism for autologin to avoid this binary?10:13
* Stskeeps looks10:13
Stskeepsrpm -qf it?10:13
faenilyes, Stskeeps should definitely give us a hand here :p10:14
* Stskeeps starts laughing10:14
* faenil takes out the Mer whip10:14
locusfuser session does survive for a long time on android frankensteins10:15
Stskeepsfilippz: it does while (true) sleep(long time)10:15
Stskeepsi'll let you reverse engineer that10:15
filippzStskeeps: that's it? I just love systemd10:16
Stskeepsthat's it.10:16
* faenil scratches his head10:16
filippzwhy not make it public/part of systemd-config-mer then?10:17
faenilbecause they don't want to show that they have a crap solution :D10:17
Stskeepsnono, it makes technical sense..10:17
faenildoes it? it doesn't look like something you're supposed to be doing10:18
tbr"valuable differentiator, proprietary IPR"10:18
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Stskeepsas in10:19
Stskeepsthe solution makes sense10:19
filippzfaenil: suggestions? Fork systemd and put jolla stuff inside? Or be annoying and talk jolla guys into making this a part of systemd?10:21
Stskeepsyou're likely to have your own sessions packages, afaik10:22
faenilsure we do10:22
locusfhttps://github.com/nemomobile/nemo-mobile-session <- ?10:22
faenilfilippz: so, are we saying systemd doesn't have enough tools to bring up a user session?10:22
faenilsorry guys I'm a bit missing the big picture here10:23
filippzfaenil: yes and no - we need some kind of autologin capabailities for systemd - ie. systemd would work with some login mechanism,but we want for user to be autologged in10:25
Stskeepsyou should take a look at the /lib/systemd/system/ stuff10:26
faenilfilippz: how was that different before10:26
filippznewer systemd now runs systemd --user as root, or something to that affect10:27
faenilwhile before?10:28
filippzhttps://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Systemd/User says that changed with systemd 206 (note in Basic setup part)10:29
filippzI've seen solutions to autologin using agetty - maybe we could try that route, but I think there's a reason jolla did with that autologind binary10:30
faenilit doesn't say much10:31
phaeronthe only reason maybe that we started with an older systemd that didn't have user session capability10:31
phaeronbut I am not a qualified source for this info :)10:31
tbrsystemd proudly removing necessary embedded linux features10:32
faenilah, so older systemd didn't have user session at all? :O this sounds strange10:32
tbrbut at least they are getting better10:33
tbrsomeone from pengutronix has been submitting embedded related patches and they got in10:33
jonwilWhat I want to know is why so many people have jumped on the systemd bandwagon even when they admit its not so good for their use case or otherwise crap...10:33
jonwilAt least there are people willing to say "systemd sucks, lets find a better way"10:33
faenilplease let's not switch to an ethical systemd discussion10:34
tbrit's OK for a certain set of things, but I wouldn't have it on a very constrained embedded system (<64/128M RAM)10:34
faenilwe have to fix nemo issues here :D10:34
tbryeah, let's have an unethical discussion instead!10:34
faenilah damn you :P10:34
bencoh(nemo as it is wouldnt run on "very constrained embedded" as it is anyway ;p)10:39
filippzany conclusion - or will we sit on this for a while?10:40
faenilfilippz: so...10:40
faenilthe main issue is that systemd only starts the user session *after* a user has logged in, right?10:41
faenilso we *just* need something to autologin user nemo, right?10:41
faenil(and keep the session open)10:41
filippzfaenil: it seems so10:43
filippzdoes anybody know why agetty or similar solution wasn't chosen?10:43
faenilsomething like https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Automatic_login_to_virtual_console#Virtual_console ?10:44
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filippzafk for 30 minutes :(10:47
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r0kk3rzisnt that wha logind is for?10:52
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faenilAren't linux distros already handling this? what is fedora doing?10:57
faenilmaybe not relevant because it's still x11 based?10:57
faenilStskeeps: isn't it enough to login the user? why the continuous sleep to keep the pam session oppen?10:58
Stskeepsi think it's not, but i don't have a systemd expert at hand10:59
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faenillet's look for experts in the appropriate channel11:00
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r0kk3rzjust get lennart to explain it all to you11:04
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faenilI wish he would11:08
faenilwhy is Pekka not on #nemomobile anymore :D :P11:09
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faenila sum up of Sailfish login process files12:54
faenilwait-user-session basically just sleeps (or returns error) until $(systemctl is-active $USER_SERVICE) returns "active"12:55
faenilwith a timeout of 45secs12:55
faenilif the timeout expires and user@.service is not active yet, it restarts the user session, a maximum of two times12:56
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faenilPAMName= Sets the PAM service name to set up a session as. If set, the executed process will be registered as a PAM session under the specified service name. This is only useful in conjunction with the User= setting. If not set, no PAM session will be opened for the executed processes. See pam(8) for details.13:29
faenil[15:29] <faenil> so systemd can actually start pam sessions by itself? [15:30] == bagackiz [bagackiz@Why.Is.A.Raven.Like.A.Writing.Desk.PanicBNC.org] has joined #systemd [15:30] == bagackiz [bagackiz@Why.Is.A.Raven.Like.A.Writing.Desk.PanicBNC.org] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] [15:30] <grawity> yes, though those are generally missing the information about X11 seat/display [15:30] <faenil> grawity: our OS is wayland based [15:30] <g13:31
faenil[15:29] <faenil> so systemd can actually start pam sessions by itself?13:32
faenil[15:30] <grawity> yes, though those are generally missing the information about X11 seat/display13:32
faenil[15:30] <faenil> grawity: our OS is wayland based13:32
faenil[15:30] <grawity> so not particularly useful for things that rely on logind for permission checking13:32
Stskeepsthat's why we have the Environment= stuff..13:32
faenil[15:30] <grawity> same concepts13:32
faenil[15:31] <faenil> mm, maybe then sailfish doesn't rely on logind for permission checking? :/13:32
faenilStskeeps: right..13:33
faenilthen I guess the picture is complete!13:35
faenilStskeeps: now I understand why the sleep...it's a hack, it really is...but, well, so it goes :p13:40
Stskeepswelcome to modern mobile devices.13:41
faenilis it too heavy to install a login manager?13:41
Stskeepsi don't see why you'd need one13:42
faenilto open a pam session and close it when neede instead of using tricks to keep a session open13:42
faenilat this point I wouldn't be surprised if the system shutdown began with a "kill -9 autologind" :p13:45
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faenilStskeeps: next steps for Mer ? (I gave you monday for free :P )14:10
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Stskeepsar, don't ask me that 15 mins before i have to leave from work..14:14
Stskeepsask in the mornings14:14
faenilStskeeps: gah :p14:14
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hedayatlocusf: Thanks! I'm leaving for now, but n9_easy_boot.tar.xz will be hopefully show up in https://hedayat.fedorapeople.org/n9/ in about 5 minutes when its upload is finished. I'll write the TMO announcement when I'm back.14:24
locusfhedayat: ok see ya14:25
hedayatI'll be happy if anybody tries it and see if it has any problems.14:25
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filippzlocusf, faenil: fixes used in ks file for SailfishOS also work well for nemo: https://www.dropbox.com/s/uh1dhnp59oqhed7/20141021%20006.jpg?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/qd2e8pfrh17f05c/20141021%20008.jpg?dl=016:02
Morpog_PClovely filippz!16:03
locusffilippz: excellent!16:03
filippzI'm thinking of leaving this as is - without fiddling with the settings in kernel16:03
faenilfilippz: great, which fixes?16:04
filippzfbset-N9.service and 60-n9-n950-ui.conf are patched from ks file16:04
faenilfilippz: ah ok it's only for the rotation stuff16:05
faenilI didn't follow the issue so I barely know the subject :)16:05
filippzfaenil: yes16:05
faenilgreat anyway :)16:05
faenilfilippz: did you see my notes about systemd login stuff?16:05
faenilI think we've got all pieces now, re sailfish16:05
faeniland what systemd expects16:06
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filippzfaenil: basically Qt Quick control used for glacier and jolla homescren don't work OK for landscape displays16:07
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filippzas for systemd  I'll get back to the subject this weekend - I've lost too much time on it already16:08
faenilI did the orientation implementation for qqc-nemo (not sure if this is what you're referring to, or it's general qqc issue)16:08
faenilit was assuming that lipstick worked as it did before16:08
faenildon't know if something changed16:08
locusffaenil: its the same age old issue with using Page as root component for Glacier homescreen16:09
locusfinstead of ApplicationWindow16:09
filippzcolorfull works OK even now - It's orientated properly and responds to rotation16:09
locusfyeah our implentation for rotation is only supported for ApplicationWindow16:10
filippzIsn't that jolla uses it's own ApllicationWindow from silica components?16:10
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faenillocusf: ah ok it's not qqc, it's lipstick16:10
locusffilippz: yes and our implementations differ16:11
locusffaenil: yeah lipstick does handle rotation but Page component doesn't respond to it like ApplicationWindow does16:12
filippzfaenil: wouldn't colorfull also be affected if the lipstick itself is picky about orientation?16:12
locusffilippz: nope, colorful home works because it uses PageStack from the old components which has rotation handling16:12
faenilthere ^16:13
filippzwell It's working with those fixes, so we can move past that16:14
faenillocusf: what was the issue with using applicationwindow for glacier homescreen? I forgot16:14
faenilfilippz: it has to be seen if the fixes have any sideeffect on the real glacier orientation implementation16:14
faenilfor the rest of the cases :D16:14
locusffaenil: using applicationwindow created a black screen for the compositor16:15
filippzIt seems my N9 needs it's battery recharged :(16:15
locusffaenil: I propose we clone the rotation handling from applicationwindow16:15
filippzlocusf: I vote yes16:16
faenillocusf: what? it makes no sense :I16:17
locusfhold your horses, its apparently not that simple16:17
faenildo you really want the orientation code to be in each of your application pages?16:17
faenilI do not16:17
faenil(beside, I don't remember if there were issues with that, it's been too long)16:17
locusfyeah its been waaayyy too long since anyone touched qqcn16:19
faenilbut anyway, let's fix booting issues first, we'll get to that later, we have a workaround for now16:19
locusffilippz: so the files you used on sailfish works on nemo as well?16:20
locusffilippz: for rotation?16:20
filippzlocusf: yes16:20
faenilif I only think about how long it took to get the drawer orientation change right....god :D16:21
filippzI'll transfer them to nemo ks for time being. We can decide wether to put those fixes into fbset-N9.service or try to set them from kernel and drop that service16:22
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filippzQT_QPA_EVDEV_TOUCHSCREEN_PARAMETERS="rotate=90" in 60-n9-n950-ui.conf can't be avoided16:23
locusfwe should upstream that16:24
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faeniland the dbus symlink16:25
filippzlocusf: yes16:26
filippzfaenil: dbus symlink is a part of systemd mess that needs maybe up to 10 files changed16:27
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faenilfilippz: no problem :p16:27
faenilthe sooner we get it back up and running, the sooner we can have other people join with easier qml tasks :)16:28
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filippzIn my current setup I can't even kill my N9 - it restarts by itself when shutdown from nemo (even when using 8 sec press) - probably that ACTDEAD thing, or maybe wrong runlevel target for systemd16:29
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filippzDid I mention that I have developed strong affection to systemd in the last few days?16:30
Stskeepssystemd is great. compared to the other crap that could exist.16:31
faenilyeah systemd doesn't have issues on its own imho...the problem is the rest of the world wanting to depend on it16:32
faenil*that's* the real issue16:32
filippzStkeeps: maybe so - but it doesn't exactly keeps things simple/stupid (on paper maybe - but in reality....)16:33
faenilfilippz: do you plan to try with agetty in the weekend?16:33
faenilfilippz: http://forkfedora.org/16:34
filippzfaenil: I'm still under imrepssion that there should be some easy fix for our situation - I'll try to find it (that agetty thing looks promising)16:34
faenilfilippz: yeah well we just need something that opens a pam session16:35
faenilagetty should do it16:35
faeniland then hope that login binary keeps the pam session open, as I'd expect a login service to do16:36
faenil(or not?)16:36
filippzfaenil: still jolla made that autologind thing - and they are not stupid - there is probably a reason for that approach16:37
faenilfilippz: the autologind just keeps the autologin service open...because once that service dies (i.e. if the binary would exit) the pam session goes with16:38
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faeniland systemd brings everything back into the grave when pam session disappears16:38
faenilgoes with it*16:39
faenilit's a hack to make it so that the pam session is kept open16:39
filippzI will try agetty and see wether that is a viable solution - we have it in /sbin already - why not use it16:39
faenilotherwise systemd would kill everything of the user-session16:39
faenilfilippz: sure...I'm just not sure if login binary keeps the pam session open, as I know nothing pam16:40
faenilif it does, we have a winner, otherwise, we need the same hack(or an alternative)16:40
faenilI wouldn't be surprised if jolla went for that solution because of lack of time16:40
filippzfaenil: until a couple of days I just knew that systemd is the reason we have to move to kernel 3.0+ - now I know so much more about it16:41
faenilknow nothing ABOUT* pam...why do I keep missing words?16:41
faenilfilippz: :D16:42
filippzIf pam is to be looked at then we'll look at it and be smarter by the day :)16:42
faenilI learned a bit about the services when because I had to, when I helped transition nemo from x11 to wayland last summer16:42
faenilnobody in #systemd could help a lot16:42
faenilthey just said "use gdm or something like that and their autologin features"16:43
faenil(though they were nice and tried to explain what systemd requires)16:43
filippzthe world still hasn't moved away from X11 - that's why we have so much things to do IMHO16:44
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filippzwell my N9 is on charger, so there's not much I can do. See you all tomorrow o/16:48
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Aardwhat getty issues do you have?16:49
faenilAard: we're trying to move to systemd206, the user session stuff changed16:50
faeniland it seems we need a pam session to be opened to trigger systemd user session starting mechanism16:50
Aard206/ don't you mean 208?16:50
faeniljolla does it with a hack, it starts an exe with PAMName and that exe just keeps running forever so that the PAM session stays on16:50
faenilwe'd like to look for an alternative16:51
faenilyeah 20816:51
faenilso the alternative would be to use agetty to autologin the user, so that systemd starts the user session16:51
Aardremind me later or tomorrow, I can see if I find something useful about that in git history16:51
faenilbut we're not sure if it will work (i.e if login binary will keep the pam session open)16:52
faenilAard: ok, thanks16:52
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hedayatI'd like to ask two (unrelated!) questions17:07
hedayat(If you have time to explain) 1. What exactly do you use "systemd --user" for? And currently, how 'nemo' user is 'logged in'?17:09
hedayatand 2. AFAIK, Nemo is a layer on top of Mer. Is it possible to run Nemo on top of another core with reasonable effort?17:10
faenil1) systemd --user starts the user session, i.e. it tries to achieve /usr/lib/systemd/user/default.target if I understood correctly. About Nemo login, it doesn't auto login at the moment, so the user session isn't started, that's our issue17:18
hedayatI just wonder if the only use of 'systemd --user' in Nemo is to start dbus-session.service, why don't you run dbus-session without using systemd? Like the way you start other things like the glacier/lipstick UI?17:18
faenil2) No idea about the effort, but I think it's considerable because all the middleware is done to work on Mer...I don't know17:18
faenillipstick UI should be started by that systemd --user, if there are no errors17:19
hedayatfaenil: about 2, do you have lots of patches to upstream packages in Mer?17:19
faenilbecause of the chain rections when systemd tries to achieve default.target17:19
faenilhedayat: you mean packages in Mer vs upstream of those packages?17:20
hedayatfaenil: How do you actually login the nemo user now?17:20
faenilwe don't...afaik17:20
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faenilI know Qt has got quite a few patches, plus a lot of other stuff, you can check /github.com/mer-packages to see the packages which had to be patched17:21
hedayatOK, if there are patches, then it'd be hard.17:21
faenilalso, why port it to another Core? we're merging Nemo middleware with Mer Core...17:22
faenilwe can't afford testing a whole new core, jolla is doing the hard job for us17:22
hedayatBuilding a "Fedora Nemo Product" just crossed my mind :D :P.17:22
hedayatNo no, I was not thinking the you move to another core17:22
Stskeepsalso, not to mention that there's been substantial effort to optimize towards mobile use/60fps/etc..17:23
hedayatWas just think if OTHERS can bring Nemo to other cores.17:23
Stskeepsit's a PITA to do that17:23
faenilhedayat: I think it would be quite easier to do it from scratch17:23
faenilthan to port it to another core xD17:23
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faenilhedayat: don't believe Stskeeps' 60fps promises :P17:24
hedayatfaenil: :)) OK OK. Just was curious about it; as Fedora has started to have a number of "Products"; and as I'm a Fedora fan! :P17:25
hedayatfaenil: :))17:25
hedayatfaenil: well, how do you currently actually 'login' the nemo user?17:25
faenilcurrently, nobody does17:26
* Stskeeps slaps faenil17:26
hedayat?! so everything is running as root?17:27
faenilI don't know, I'm confused about thow things were handled pre-new systemd17:27
faenilI never saw any service logging in17:28
faenil(or I forgot about it in the meanwhile)17:28
Stskeepsno, systemd starts a user session, running as nemo17:28
Stskeepsthrough a bit of user@ magic17:28
faenilStskeeps: that's the new setup17:28
faenilwhat about the old one17:28
faenilwhich I guess is what he was asking17:29
Stskeepsthere was some changes needed for the new setup indeed, to get systemd going with it17:29
hedayatStskeeps: wow, I felt that 'systemd --user' is run AFTER the user is logged in ... somehow17:29
faenilhedayat: is IS17:29
Stskeepssystemd --user is probably getting fork-setuid-exec'ed17:29
faenilyou login, pam session is opened, systemd detects that and starts user-session17:29
faenilwith all its services17:29
faenilwhen you close the pam session, systemd detects it, and closes all user-sessio services17:29
hedayatand who does that?! apparently that is the process which should be running while user is logged in.17:30
faenilwho does what? the login?17:30
faenilin Nemo, NOTHING (we're deciding how to fix that!) , in Jolla, autologin@.service17:31
hedayatSo, in Nemo, how systemd --user is being started in the first place?! :P (sorry if I'm missing something)17:31
faenilour issues is exactly that...new systemd requires a user to be logged in, so it can start user-session and services17:31
faenilhedayat: it is NOT! XD17:31
faenilthat's our issue! XD17:31
Stskeepsstart-user-session.. are you sure17:32
Stskeepscheck user@ and /lib/systemd/system17:32
faeniluser@ is started after you login17:32
hedayatfaenil: but I heard that it runs, then terminates, and this is your problem!17:32
faenilhedayat: well actually, sometimes it runs, sometimes it doesn't, because guys had a mixed old-new setup17:32
Stskeepsfaenil: not exactly.17:32
faenilthey still had user-sessio@.service which was the *OLD* setup17:33
faenilStskeeps: really? that's how I got it so far17:33
hedayathmmm OK, let me see what happens on my Fedora. I see 'systemd --user's running, but with no childs. Probably nothing is managed by it yet.17:34
hedayatI'm going to kill them to see what happens! :D17:34
faenil# graphical.target.wants -> start-user-session.service -> # autologin@.service -> user@.service -> systemd --user17:34
faenilStskeeps: ^17:34
faenilno login, no user@.service ;)17:34
hedayat(I might disappear because of  it!)17:34
hedayatIn the meantime, has anybody looked into my n9_easy_boot?17:35
faenilnot me17:35
locusfI didn't look at tmo today, sorry :/17:35
hedayatkilled one of them, nothing happened. going for the second one...17:35
faenilStskeeps: check start-user-session ;) it only runs autologin bin17:35
faenil(close your ears guys, Stskeeps is spreading FUD to make our life impossible! :P )17:36
hedayatlocusf: I've not posted it on TMO yet! Thought that you might try the file I linked, and have some feedback. I'm going to post it after killing my systemds :D17:36
hedayatlocusf: by the way, the package has a README with it which should be enough17:37
locusfhedayat: oh okay17:37
hedayatOK, nothing happened as expected. So, at least on Fedora 20, systemd --user manages nothing for the desktop.17:38
hedayatIt's just there to manage user provided services, if any.17:38
hedayatgnome-session-manager is still used to manage gnome session.17:38
faenilok, interesting17:39
hedayatbut Fedora runs systemd-logind, which is probably used for session management17:39
faenilyes, *after* the user logs in :)17:39
hedayat(actually, systemd --user is not provided for session management, but for 'user services management' as I get it)17:40
hedayatfaenil: what? logind is started after login?17:40
faenilI don't know when it is started, but it handles the login session *after* you login17:41
faenilit's not the tool you use *to* login17:41
faenil(I used to believe that as well, until today)17:41
faenilbut it's my first day inside login stuff, so I'm all confused, still trying to put pieces together17:42
faenilatm I just want Stskeeps to confess he was wrong, haha17:42
hedayathmmm, you are right:  "User sessions are registered in logind via the pam_systemd(8) PAM module."17:43
hedayatlet me see what pam_systemd is17:43
faenilit should be the module which connects pam to systemd (captain obvious, I know)17:43
locusfdamn nemo mobile forum is quiet17:53
locusffortunately this channel isn't as quiet17:53
faenilwhich forum17:56
hedayatfaenil: "https://github.com/joukewitteveen/xlogin/blob/master/xlogin@.service"18:03
hedayatfaenil: I think you'll need something like this18:03
hedayatfaenil: and you can just run your main GUI element with it18:04
hedayatIIRC, it can be set up in a way that even if it crashed, it is started automatically again by systemd18:04
hedayatI'm not familiar with Wayland world, but you'll have a base graphical process in that setup too, right? (something act like X). It is called "compositor" or something I guess18:05
locusffaenil: tmo18:06
locusfnow I've got here maps for android and now downloading belgium maps for FOSDEM preparation18:08
faenilhedayat: yes well the compositor is lipstick binary18:08
faeniland that should restart already if it crashes18:08
hedayatUsing something like xlogin, setting up a PAM session is actually done by systemd, and the long running process is that compositor. There should be no need for something like autologind18:09
hedayatPAMName: http://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd.exec.html18:09
faenilhedayat: have you read the log from this afternoon? :p18:10
hedayatfaenil: Yes I did.18:10
faenilhedayat: ok, I pasted PAMName definition and the fact that syustemd starts the pam session :D18:11
faenilbut lipstick is one of the services that are part of the user session startu18:12
hedayatSince you only have a single user, nemo, you'll need a service without @, and "User=" entry should be User=nemo18:12
faenilI don't know if it can be started as early as at the beginning of the user session18:12
hedayatfaenil: That's OK, this service can run an script, just like as what the xlogin service does18:13
hedayatfaenil: All it needs is that the script never finishes18:13
faenilno I meant, maybe it has to follow systemd ordering18:13
faenilbut it seems it's not needed as it doesn't have big requirements18:13
hedayatfaenil: hmmmm.... well, maybe we can handle it somehow.18:14
hedayatfaenil: I guess none of its requirements are "user" srevices, am I right?18:16
faenilhedayat: mmm so adding PAMName and User to lipstick.service could be enough18:16
faenilhedayat: yes that's what I meant with the previous msg :)18:16
hedayatfaenil: apparently it doesn't depend on anything in user session service, and I feel (hope!) that pre-user-session.target is actually a "PRE" session target18:16
hedayatfaenil: Yes, I think so!18:17
faenilI think so :P18:17
faenilI'm not sure what would be of the bins here in that case18:19
faenil(killx is not needed anymore anyway)18:19
faenilmaybe that script is needed to support actdead18:20
faenil(most likely)18:21
hedayatsorry, I'll be back in about 10 minutes. BTW, PAMName= might depend on setting up pam_systemd which was mentioned earlier18:21
faenilnot sure it actually needs setting u18:21
kimmolilbt: hmm... where i can get the wh script?18:23
faenilthis is strange though18:26
faenilwhy another PAM session?18:26
faenil /lib/systemd/system/user@.service:PAMName=systemd-user18:26
faenilhedayat: btw, what happens if we call agetty in the login.service instead of lipstick directly? (so we don't have to changed the ordering)18:29
faenildoes agetty exit after logging in? (and what about the login process that agetty uses to login?)18:30
kimmoliis it this? https://github.com/mer-tools/sdk-setup/blob/master/src/wh18:30
faenilkimmoli: looks like it ? :)18:31
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hedayatfaenil: I'm back. sorry.18:36
kimmolifaenil: yep..18:36
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faenilhedayat: np ;)18:37
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hedayatwell, I didn't expect system-user to setup a session by itself. There is a problem: "systemd --user: This process will survive as long as there is some session for that user"18:39
hedayatif it creates a session itself, so there is a session for the user while it is running!18:39
faenildinner, bbl18:40
kimmolipöh: the apiurl 'https://api.opensuse.org' does not exist in the config file.18:46
kimmoli..and it works \o/18:49
kimmoli.oscrc had apiurl to that opensuse...18:50
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kimmoli...or not working. :(19:12
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hedayatfaenil: I feel that user@.service is already doing what you expect: keeping 'systemd --user' running. because it opens a session for the user itself.19:19
hedayatfaenil: I decided to run this service manually, and see if it terminates. It's still alive19:20
faenilhedayat: the problem is that that session isn't opened if there is no other session that triggers the start of user@.service19:20
hedayatfaenil: but you said that graphical target wants it?19:20
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hedayatfaenil: so... if you want to reach this target you should start user@.service, not?19:21
hedayatuser@nemo works too19:21
faenilit's not in graphical target wants19:22
faenilas far as I can see19:22
faenilor is it19:22
* faenil doublechecks19:22
hedayatfaenil: :P19:23
faenilthere's start-user-session, which triggers autologin, which then triggers user@service19:23
faenilso, NO, user@service is not triggered by graphical target19:23
faenil(not without the autologin procedure, I mean)19:24
hedayatfaenil: What if autologin is eliminated from the chain?19:24
faenilthen user@.service should never be started19:24
faenil(if I understood correctly how the whole thing works)19:24
hedayatNo! I mean what if start-user-session triggers user@nemo.service directly19:24
lbtkimmoli: you got it19:25
kimmolilbt: but not working :(19:25
faenildon't know...I guess there's a reason why it has to be triggered via pam session :/ not sure though19:25
lbtkimmoli: does 'osc ls' work19:25
lbtthe wh script should check to ensure osc is properly configured19:26
kimmoliit created the webhook ok19:26
hedayatfaenil: but it opens a pam session by itself19:26
faenilhedayat: ah right, I forgot about that already :p19:26
faenilthen who knows :)19:26
kimmolilbt: but pushing to devel branch doesnt msg on mer-boss19:27
faenillet's see if they know something in #systemd19:27
lbtkimmoli: which pkg ?19:27
kimmoli home:kimmoli:devel > toholed-daemon19:27
kimmolii did already copy-paste _service to have place to manually paste sha19:28
lbtright - but there's no wehook service in there19:28
lbtspecifically https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Packaging/webhooks#Web_Interface19:29
lbtedit this: https://build.merproject.org/package/view_file/home:kimmoli:tohs/toholed-daemon/_service?expand=119:29
kimmoliyes. it was like that after wh -script, but didn't work19:29
lbtlooks OK to me: https://webhook.merproject.org/webhook/api/webhookmappings/mobs/home:kimmoli:devel/toholed-daemon/find19:31
kimmolii edited _service, now "broken"19:32
kimmolinow i pushed commit to bb19:34
lbtI'm looking at OBS and last change to _service was 2 days ago19:35
lbtand it looks the same19:35
lbtalso i it says "broken" then it's not likely to work :)19:35
lbtoh, my bad - I must have had :tohs in my browser history19:36
kimmolihome:kimmoli:tohs/toholed-daemon  is 2 days ago https://build.merproject.org/package/show/home:kimmoli:tohs/toholed-daemon19:36
kimmolithe _service is now according to wiki19:37
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lbtlet me go check boss is all good19:37
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faenilhedayat: nothing, nobody has replied in #systemd so far19:42
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hedayatfaenil: probably testing is the easiest solution!19:44
faenilhedayat: not sure we know enough to even say if it's working or not...it could seem to be working, at first glance...19:45
hedayatfaenil: BTW, at least it works in Fedora. I just start user@username.service, and it runs19:45
hedayatand it doesn't terminate19:45
faenilI don't see why the service wouldn't run...I'm just not sure of the sideeffects for the rest of the user session19:45
hedayatI'm still waiting to see if it will terminate after some time19:45
hedayathmmm... unless autologind actually does other things too (rather than just sleeping?!)19:47
lbtkimmoli: push again - I wonder if some commit events were missed19:47
faenilhedayat: we were told it just sleeps, we have no reason to believe otherwise ;)19:47
hedayatfaenil: :)19:48
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hedayatfaenil: I fail to see why autologind is needed. It might be needed for the days of user-session@.service! but with user@.service, it really seems to be useless.19:49
hedayatIF I've understood things correctly!19:49
faenilhedayat: I agree, IF we understood correctly ^^19:50
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faenilhedayat: I feel much more positive now :)19:55
hedayatfaenil: :)19:56
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faenilhedayat: feel like testing it ? :)20:06
hedayatYes, but I've not setup Mer SDK yet.20:06
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faenilI think locusf uploaded an image already?20:08
hedayatIf there's an image, I'd gladly download and test it. And would be able to test such things.20:09
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hedayatotherwise, I'll setup Mer SDK when I found some free time again.20:09
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faenilhedayat: http://images.devaamo.fi/sfa/n9/20:10
faenilit's from 4 days ago, it should have new packages already20:10
faenildon't worry if graphics is broken (in case you get it to boot ;) )20:10
hedayatfaenil: great, thanks. I'll download it tonight.20:13
faenilI think the needed changes are: align user@.service to the one from SailfishOS, create a symlink to dbus.service /usr/lib/systemd/user/pre-user-session.target.wants/dbus.service20:13
faenildelete user-session@service20:14
faeniladd something in graphical-target-wants that runs user@.service with the right id20:14
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faenilnot sure if there's any other change which is needed that the other guys know20:15
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hedayatuser@.service can be just user-nemo.service, and nemo being hardcoded as the user20:16
locusfthe image should get you running lipstick20:16
faenilget you running lipstick via user-session@service, I hope you mean20:17
faenilnot via user@service20:17
faenilso it's important to delete user-session :D20:17
hedayatlocusf: so it doesn't have the new stuff? I already have nemo-n950-rnd-20140224.tar.bz2. Is it much different?20:17
faenilyes it's A LOT different20:18
locusfhedayat: a lot20:18
hedayat:D OK!20:18
faenil8 months worth of upgrades different, precisely :P20:18
faeniland now I wonder...20:19
faenilif we want to start the .service manually20:19
hedayat:P I thought that maybe the updates were pushed into the repositories recently.20:19
locusfI should be sleeping :p20:19
faenilthen how is that different from keeping user-session@service?20:19
faenilhedayat: not sure if you can update to latest core from your image, could be, don't know20:20
faenilbut now I'm puzzled :/20:21
faenilwhy are we transitioning from user-session if we're creating something which is very similar20:21
locusfnot lilely to produce anything viable via zypper dup with newmer core20:21
hedayatfaenil: good point. I wonder why exactly start-user-session script is needed. BTW, what is ACT_DEAD mode?! :P :D20:22
faenilhedayat: I think it's needed because of actdead...20:22
hedayatfaenil: maybe to be compatible with newer systemd anyway?!20:22
faenilactdead is the mode which is used when you use charger and the phone is off20:22
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faenilhedayat: to be compatible with the new systemd you have to start a pam session, not trick the system like we're trying to do :D20:23
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faenilwe're basically tricking it by going back to the obsolete mode which we're getting rid of :/20:24
hedayatfaenil: Probably yes and no. PAM session should be created by the login manager. And if you are using user@.service as the login manager, that's fine20:25
faenilnot sure...that PAMName is in the upstream systemd user@service20:25
hedayatIMHO, user@.service is actually a session manager since it opens a new session for the user. However, 'systemd --user' is a user service manager, not dependent on any given session.20:26
hedayatfaenil: at least, it exists in Fedora version too, while Fedora doesn't use it.20:26
hedayat(so it is probably upstream)20:28
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hedayatWell, apparently user@.service is usually started by pam_systemd if not already started. Which is a little confusing :P20:40
hedayathttp://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/pam_systemd.html, part 320:41
faenilhedayat: alright, so just start user@id yourself :)20:43
faenilinstead of hardcoding the id20:43
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faenilsee what start-user-session does, to get the id from login defs ;) it's a simple cmd20:45
faenilso that we also keep the same behaviours20:46
hedayatyes, I know. But I wonder what are the benefits of a generic code in a system which always have a single user20:46
hedayator not?!20:46
hedayatDoes Sailfish/Nemo have other users?20:46
faenilhedayat: don't think so...not sure if other users are used for some purposes though20:47
faenilbut, you know, better keep it generic if it is cheap20:47
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hedayatfaenil: hmm OK. But then, I'd probably have a config file somewhere rather than reading the minumum UID! anyway, not important20:49
hedayatfaenil: Ah! I feel that I understand it correctly now! :D20:49
hedayatfaenil: user@.service opens a new session, so its 'systemd --user' never terminates20:49
hedayatpam_systemd starts user@.service when a user is logging in, if it is not running.20:50
faenilyes, ok ;)20:50
hedayatsystemd --user is expected to be running while there are some open user sessions, so it will run forever while user@.service is running, since it has a dedicated session20:50
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hedayatAnd pam_systemd terminates user@.service when the last user session (except the one created by user@.service) is terminated20:51
faenilyeah, no news there :)20:51
hedayatSo, this is why user@.service open a separate session when a new session is already created20:52
faenilwait, except the one created by user service? then how do you stop it?20:52
faenilso we do need another session?20:52
hedayatWell, actually I was confused that why user@.service should create a new session, if it is started by pam_session, which is called when a new session is already created!20:52
hedayatpam_session does20:53
hedayat'session' PAM services are called both when a new user session is created, and when a session is terminated20:54
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faenilyes but if there's no other session except the one created by user@service..20:54
hedayatSo, pam_session can actually keep track of real user sessions20:54
dr_jollagood  evening20:54
faenildr_jolla: o/20:54
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hedayatNo, pam_session is called on each session creation/termination, not just when the last session terminates20:55
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faenilyes, but...20:55
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dr_jollai saw many hysteria against Saìlors , something happened?20:55
faenilyou want to start user@service without opening a new session *before* right?20:55
hedayatwhen the last user session (except the one created by user@.service) is closed, pam_session stops user@.service20:55
faenildr_jolla: what happened?20:56
faenilhedayat: but there is no session beside the one created by user@service the way you wanted to do it20:56
dr_jollai got the twitter timeline full of hate20:56
dr_jollabtw i see you are mangling with systemd user session20:56
hedayatfaenil: I just described what happens in regular systems, which can affirm that our findings about user@.service is correct20:57
dr_jollawhat are you doing?20:57
faenilah, ok20:57
faenilthen, my question remains, how do we stop it if we have no other session beside the one created by user@? we stop it manually?20:58
hedayatSo, I'm more confident that starting user@.service from start-user-session should be enough20:58
hedayatfaenil: Yes, you can stop it when you want to shut down the device20:58
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hedayatbecause there is no 'logout' in a phone20:59
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faenilhedayat: ok so stop it manually20:59
dr_jollafaenil: question is , will nemo become multiuser ala android?21:00
faenilwho knows21:00
faenilwe'll think about it when the time comes?21:00
dr_jollanot now21:00
hedayatshutting down is a manual process anyway! Even on the desktop, user logs out manually.21:00
faenilI don't think it will become multiuser without jolla doing the real job, so...21:00
faenilhedayat: sure21:01
dr_jollafaenil: problem are many framewőrk use uid 1000 by default21:01
dr_jollasaw on sfa phone21:01
dr_jollabut for now i'm involved into a brewing system project21:02
faenildr_jolla: nemo is 1000021:02
dr_jollalost 021:02
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hedayatok, good night. Hopefully, I'll come with a new Nemo image tomorrow!21:02
dr_jollaany news here?21:03
dr_jollai was totally out21:03
faenilhedayat: wait! you're leaving without telling me if it works? :D21:03
faenildr_jolla: not much, still working on having a stable system boot21:03
* ZogG tickles faenil 21:03
faenilhe left? come oooon :D21:04
hedayatfaenil: :D I'll tell you tomorrow. It takes some time for me to download the image21:04
faenilhedayat: ooooh, I see...okay ;)21:04
faenilif you get it working don't forget to send PullRequest to https://github.com/nemomobile/nemo-mobile-session21:04
faenilso that we can update the package and go on with the fixes ;)21:05
hedayat:) sure21:05
ZogGfaenil, rpi images?21:05
faenilZogG: ?21:05
faenildon't know, I've never worked on an rpi21:06
faenilbut vgrade used to boot nemo on it iirc21:06
ZogGfaenil, the image itself is optimized for specific HW right?21:07
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dr_jollaarmv6hf i think21:07
faenilarmv7hl usually21:07
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dr_jollarpi is arm6hf sadly21:08
dr_jollaZogG: another crappy platform21:08
faenilif Nemo used to run on rpi I don't see why it can't be done again :)21:08
dr_jollawhich qt are you using?21:09
dr_jollawhich display server21:09
dr_jollawayland works better then X21:09
faenilare you talking about Nemo?21:10
faenilit moved to Wayland more than a year ago21:10
faeniland the current image is using qt5.2, like the next Jolla update (the one we're waiting)21:10
dr_jollai knoe21:10
* dr_jolla want rpi image asap21:11
ZogGfaenil, most of my experience with linux except just installing from bootable media is setting gentoo from stage3. so while there i know how i set everything and as it's sourcebased i just compile things with flags i need for platform i need automagically21:11
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ZogG\with adoptating nemo to other platfomr i have no idea how it's done21:11
faenilZogG: you just wait for OBS to build the packages for you arch :P21:12
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faeniland fix a package if you see OBS fails to build it21:12
ZogGdr_jolla, if you get one, ping me :P21:12
ZogGif i'm not answering, pass it to faenil, he is like my secretary :P21:12
ZogGfaenil, pakage is not the problem, but how do i boot to system to the point i build packages :P21:13
faenilthat's the current situation with armv621:13
ZogGfaenil, with gentoo i just chroot21:13
faenilZogG: you build the image *after* you know OBS has built all the needed packages21:13
dr_jollawith or without hardfloat?21:13
faenilso first you get OBS to build the packages you need, *then* you build the image and you flash it :)21:13
faenilZogG: you probably have more experience than me, I only used chroot for mer sdk :P21:14
dr_jollais completely broken21:14
dr_jollagood luck21:14
faenilwhat's broken?21:15
faenilthere's only 5-6 packages which fail to build, the rest is dependencies missing because of those 5-6 packages21:15
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dr_jollachain reaction21:15
dr_jollawhole image is broken21:16
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faenilI don't know how to fix those few packages21:17
faenilbut I'm sure somebody in this channel knows21:17
faenilbut first we have to get nemo to work on armv7 at least21:17
faeniland finish Nemo-Mer merge21:17
faenilafter that's all done maybe someone can think about fixing those failures21:17
faenilsomeone like you, guys :p21:18
ZogGi may try to fix21:21
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faenilZogG: great :)21:23
OksanaAbout armv7: does anybody know why xulrunner-qt5 still fails to build? https://build.merproject.org/package/live_build_log/mer-core:armv7hl:devel/xulrunner-qt5/Core_armv7hl/armv8el21:29
faenilyes, I wrote the reason a week ago or two21:29
faenilbasically, the fixes I sent make it build on embedlite33 branch21:30
faenilbut nemo will be stuck on embedlite31 until the next LTS is out, it seems21:30
faenilso, either you cherrypick all the rest of the fixes that make it compile on gcc4.8 and that mozilla committed between version 31 and 3321:31
faenilor, you move to version 33, and the fixes I sent will be enough to compile successfully21:31
OksanaWhy not move to version 33?21:32
dr_jollais last stable21:32
faenilI don't know the specific reasons, but the embedlite maintainer for nemo said so21:32
faenilthat we'll only move to the next LTS version21:33
OksanaLTS=ESR ?21:33
ZogGfaenil, but i'll need your help as always to understand how do i fix it in obs? i mean i fork repo and do my own build or how i push changes?21:33
faenilOksana: long term support21:34
faenilZogG: you look at the _service file, there is a git repo in there21:34
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OksanaYes, yes, LTR=ESR, it is easier to renew xulrunner on Nemo every 7 versions, instead of jumping at every new version.21:34
faenilyou fork the repo, clone it on your pc, try to build it in your mer sdk using "mb2 -t <target_name> build"21:35
faeniland when you manage to build it, you send a pull request to the official repo, with the fixes21:35
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OksanaIs it possible to fork it in github, make some changes, 'show' the fork to OBS, and if OBS compiles successfully, push the fork back to main repository?21:36
faenilZogG: you need a little bit special mer sdk and target, due to the Nemo-Mer merge being a work in progress21:37
faenilthe instructions to set it up are here http://www.merproject.org/logs/%23nemomobile/%23nemomobile.2014-10-01.log.html#t2014-10-01T15:06:3421:37
faeniland also the morning after21:37
faenilZogG: btw you can already see the build log on OBS, if you didn't notice21:39
faenilso that you can have an idea if you know how to fix it or not21:39
faenilbut you have to first go to the package page21:39
faeniland then click "failed" on the right21:39
dr_jollaguys good night21:40
faenilif you click "failed" from the packages overview which I linked, it won't work21:40
dr_jollasee you soon21:40
faenildr_jolla: o/21:40
OksanaWhy do different architectures have different errors? https://build.merproject.org/package/live_build_log/mer-core:i486:devel/xulrunner-qt5/Core_i486/i58621:41
faenilOksana: the reason is in your msg :D21:42
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faenilI'm going to bed btw, so tired...21:42
faenilcya o/21:42
Oksanai486 as a whole has too many failed. Why?21:43
OksanaGood night!21:43
faenilOksana: I think something bad happened21:44
faenilall installation errors21:44
Morpog_PCph dlna packages21:44
faenilOksana: there should be only xulrunner not building on i48621:44
faenilOksana: thanks for noticing, I'll try to ping someone in the morning21:45
OksanaThank you! Good night.21:45
OksanaSomething in MAKEDEV ? While armv7hl ( :) ) has sb2-init before initializing rpm db..., i486 ( :( ) does not do anything between init_buildsystem and initializing rpm db...21:51
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ZogGfaenil, i read the above thn you wrotw i'll analyze it at weekend and ask you more22:27
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