Saturday, 2017-04-08

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neochapay_mal: test with lastet nemomobile components https://github.com/neochapay/qtquickcontrols-nemo/tree/5.205:40
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AndreaBernabeifaCorrect06:26
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malneochapay_: I did test those08:30
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SergeyChupliginTReply to mal (IRC):08:31
SergeyChupliginT><mal (IRC)> neochapay_: I did test those08:31
SergeyChupliginTI update tooday can you get me screenshot ?08:31
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malsure, I'll get some screenshots08:34
malhmm, how do I do that, I have never taken screenshots on this before08:35
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malfound how to do it08:45
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malneochapay_: some screenshots http://vtkpp.dy.fi/fp2/nemo/08:53
SergeyChupliginTSwitcher and textfield i fix on morning08:56
malthe back button is one of the most annoying thing, it always takes many attempts to click it08:58
malneochapay_: also there is one bug I just noticed, in landscape mode the open apps cards in the open app list have their content upside down09:00
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SergeyChupliginTYea...i know...09:17
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malI missed that you had pushed some new changes after yesterday so I'll build a new package09:18
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malneochapay_: the scaling fix for switch is not completely ok, the ball is not round anymore09:23
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malneochapay_: also I think the text in header is slightly too large09:28
malneochapay_: the specification says the header should be 50 px high but it's now 75 px, or does that include the bottom margin or not09:31
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locusfgood stuff :)09:57
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locusfhttps://build.merproject.org/package/show/nemo:devel:ux/glacier-settings is there now10:10
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mallocusf: yay10:14
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TopiasTelegram[mBtw10:59
TopiasTelegram[mDon't you think glacier should have a slide back feature10:59
TopiasTelegram[mBack button at top left corner is the worst UX design11:00
eetuTelegram[m]Reply to Topias (Telegram):11:01
eetuTelegram[m]>Don't you think glacier should have a slide back feature11:01
eetuTelegram[m]I think it is in specs that qwazix wrote? Not sure tho:)11:01
TopiasTelegram[mWhere?11:01
locusfit is there11:03
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locusfhttps://github.com/qwazix/glacier-controls-spec11:04
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TopiasTelegram[mSo the scaling issue11:08
TopiasTelegram[mIs it fixed?11:08
locusfat the homescreen, not yet11:09
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eetuTelegram[m]http://nemomobile.github.io/#navigation11:12
TopiasTelegram[mVery nice11:15
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malis the lockscreen supposed to appear when pressing the power button, for me it goes directly to homescreen and the previously open app is not fullscreen after that11:48
malit seems homescreen is always set as the current window when display is turned off11:50
locusfyes this is correct11:51
locusfshould be fixed11:51
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SamTelegram[m]Reply to eetu (Telegram):12:15
SamTelegram[m]>http://nemomobile.github.io/#navigation12:15
SamTelegram[m]I don't get the insistence on circle icons, they seem the least efficient way to store a glyph inside a container12:15
SamTelegram[m]If your current icon is a square you'll have to either shrink it a lot to fit into the context or crop it, and putting it all side to side you can't put much information inside ir12:17
SamTelegram[m]I've always thought nokia's squircles seem to be the best option for a rounded, standard guideline for iconography, allows enough free space to breathe yet enough space to express your idea12:18
TopiasTelegram[mwe can't just go copy squircles though12:19
TopiasTelegram[mI don't think there's really a problem with circles12:20
TopiasTelegram[mbesides they can extend over it12:20
TopiasTelegram[mwhich leaves space for imagination12:21
SamTelegram[m]Nokia doesn't hold a copyright over a shape, although I agree we should have our own identity (Ubuntu had reshaped their icons for U8), if you're extending it you're already deviating from the standard you've set12:25
TopiasTelegram[mReply to Sam (Telegram):12:25
TopiasTelegram[m>Nokia doesn't hold a copyright over a shape, although I agree we should have our own identity (Ubuntu had reshaped their icons for U8), if you're extending it you're already deviating from the standard you've set12:25
TopiasTelegram[mwhat do you mean by the last one?12:25
TopiasTelegram[moh12:26
TopiasTelegram[mI mean the icons aren't confined totally inside the cirlce12:26
TopiasTelegram[mthey can have protruding elements12:26
SamTelegram[m]If every application deviates from the standard then there is no standard12:27
malbut the standard has been defined as a non-confined circle, meaning some parts can go over the circle12:29
TopiasTelegram[mhow about you read the standard again12:29
TopiasTelegram[m"t doesn’t have to be absolutely circular, some parts can stick out of the circle and actually this practice is recommended."12:30
TopiasTelegram[mthis was stated in the iconography spec12:30
TopiasTelegram[mthat is the whole idea12:30
TopiasTelegram[msee how the standard set of icons aren't all complete circles12:30
SergeyChupliginTReply to mal (IRC):12:35
SergeyChupliginT><mal (IRC)> neochapay_: the specification says the header should be 50 px high but it's now 75 px, or does that include the bottom margin or not12:35
SergeyChupliginTIf we run glacier on phone 50px is normal but if we run on retina like device we dont see anything !  We need scale interface you must use di or mm12:35
malbut that has the scaling already, just that the basevalue before scaling is wrong12:35
TopiasTelegram[mReply to Sergey Игоревич Chupligin (Telegram):12:36
TopiasTelegram[m>If we run glacier on phone 50px is normal but if we run on retina like device we dont see anything !  We need scale interface you must use di or mm12:36
TopiasTelegram[misn't there one in place that came out just today?12:36
SamTelegram[m]Qt can work with malleable units rather than pixels12:36
malhttps://github.com/neochapay/qtquickcontrols-nemo/blob/5.2/src/controls/Header.qml#L6512:36
TopiasTelegram[mhttps://twitter.com/NemoMobile/status/85065404317315891212:37
maland https://github.com/qwazix/glacier-controls-spec/blob/master/header/header.pdf12:37
mallatter says 50u and the code says 7512:37
SergeyChupliginTI create size class on quickcontols on it you can see di and mm functions12:38
malyes, I know, but I am talking about the value before scaling12:38
maljust look at the two links I just posted, to me the height (before scaling) in the header is too large compared to the spec12:43
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TopiasTelegram[mguys, I just setup my nemo dev environment13:08
TopiasTelegram[mis there anything that needs fixing I could look into?13:09
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SamTelegram[m]@locusf13:25
locusfyes13:26
* SamTelegram[m] uploaded an image: Image_1491659216645.jpg (6KB) - https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/tchncs.de/SLMUmhMDEWnbYOzjsRygWKSa13:45
SamTelegram[m]just prototyped this13:45
SamTelegram[m]is this a good style13:46
SamTelegram[m]I want to redo the current icon set13:46
eetuTelegram[m]where is qwazix :D13:46
TopiasTelegram[mthere is one inconvenience in the current icon style13:48
TopiasTelegram[msince the spec defines that the icons can have stuff going outside of the circle13:49
TopiasTelegram[mthis means each icon requires to have spacing baked in the icons13:50
SamTelegram[m]the n9 template spec fixes this with a breathing space for the glyph13:50
* SamTelegram[m] uploaded an image: Image_1491659492398.jpg (91KB) - https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/tchncs.de/fGkGhrkgbRNdAAoYOmjVHjhR13:50
TopiasTelegram[mand thus this causes some annoying scaling issues to icons not conforming to this icon spec13:50
SamTelegram[m]turns out a circle almost conforms with it13:50
* SamTelegram[m] uploaded an image: Image_1491659540892.jpg (90KB) - https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/tchncs.de/qaspdGmRDurrhgOlbDpzWUop13:51
SamTelegram[m]so a circle isnt so bad13:51
TopiasTelegram[mbut what does this have to do with nemo?13:52
SamTelegram[m]It is a nice reference to have and discuss for iconography13:52
eetuTelegram[m]https://web.archive.org/web/20160406182505/http://play.qwazix.com/grog/?p=36413:52
TopiasTelegram[mI see13:52
SamTelegram[m]this also fixes the problem of a standard fof existing applications with glyphs not optimized for circles13:54
TopiasTelegram[mcare to elaborate?13:54
TopiasTelegram[mnot sure what you mean13:54
TopiasTelegram[mfof?13:54
SamTelegram[m]for*13:54
TopiasTelegram[mReply to Sam (Telegram):13:56
TopiasTelegram[m>this also fixes the problem of a standard for existing applications with glyphs not optimized for circles13:56
TopiasTelegram[mwhat do you mean?13:56
SamTelegram[m]just pasting a circle overlay over an existing logo that wasnt optimized for a circle shape will just crop it, it needs some breathing space13:56
TopiasTelegram[mso13:57
TopiasTelegram[myou mean13:57
TopiasTelegram[mthat the icon itself13:57
TopiasTelegram[mis just a square shaped area inside the square13:57
TopiasTelegram[mcircle*13:57
TopiasTelegram[msquare inside the circle I mean13:58
TopiasTelegram[mlike on the squircles13:58
SamTelegram[m]we could make a helper for that so it keeps consistence13:58
SamTelegram[m]apple does the same13:58
SamTelegram[m]not sure what is the guideline for Android O which has circular icons13:58
* SamTelegram[m] uploaded an image: Image_1491660019847.jpg (92KB) - https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/tchncs.de/cTDNSiANJADkAEAmiUkyLbRW13:59
SamTelegram[m]apple recommends the glyph to be placed inside the first circle13:59
TopiasTelegram[mgood thing about it is consistency14:00
TopiasTelegram[malthough there is certain charm in the nemo styling14:01
TopiasTelegram[mbeing the same shapes, yet you can extend over14:01
TopiasTelegram[mbut14:01
TopiasTelegram[mit's kind of annoying from coding stand point14:01
TopiasTelegram[mif you run Glacier on a sailfish phone, which has both android apps and sailfish apps alongside nemo14:02
TopiasTelegram[mit creates a peculiar problem14:02
TopiasTelegram[mof course, it'd be ideal that all icons would conform to the spec14:03
TopiasTelegram[mbut that'd mean each application should have an alternative icon14:03
* TopiasTelegram[m uploaded an image: Image_1491660378805.jpg (2KB) - https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/tchncs.de/OnQLKacVhWkUcTwFCzOZlsZI14:05
* TopiasTelegram[m uploaded an image: Image_1491660388537.jpg (3KB) - https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/tchncs.de/cggujCvKUWqKAiRmpJtQIObG14:05
TopiasTelegram[mso here's the problem14:05
TopiasTelegram[min order to place icons that they look about the same size14:05
qwazixeekkelund: eetuTelegram[m] hi, I'm here14:06
TopiasTelegram[mproblem is, sailfish icons and android icons are "edge to edge"14:07
TopiasTelegram[mor I don't know about android14:07
TopiasTelegram[manyway14:07
TopiasTelegram[mat least sailfish icons are14:07
TopiasTelegram[mbut nemo icons are not14:07
eekkelundqwazix: Ooh awesome, ATM we are having discussion about nemo icons, I thought you would have some ideas/opinions :)14:07
qwazixI'm mobile atm but we can talk in ~3h more easily when I'll be @keyboard14:08
TopiasTelegram[mok14:08
qwazixI'm listening14:08
TopiasTelegram[msince the nemo icons have extra space, the circle isn't from edge to edge14:08
qwazixyep14:08
qwazixso there's an issue with centering14:09
eekkelundSounds good, there has been lots of questions about design :)^ if you will be able to read the backlog14:09
TopiasTelegram[mso that means, sailfish icons and nemo icons should be handled very differently in the UI14:09
malis there a svg template for the icons14:09
qwazixah, yeah didn't think of that :-S14:09
SamTelegram[m]right now the temple is a circle14:10
malthat would make things easier if there would be a template with correct spacing around the circle14:10
TopiasTelegram[mfrom a programming aspect, I don't know how would you even be able to handle the icons differently14:10
TopiasTelegram[mmal: that's really not the problem here. If every dev just conform to the spec.14:12
SamTelegram[m]the developer itself can set it on the .desktop file14:13
SamTelegram[m]for example, if there's nemoIcon= param it chooses that instead of icon14:13
SamTelegram[m]or seeks in a folder first14:13
SamTelegram[m]if using a theme14:13
qwazixhmm, that's easy. I'll fix something up. I'm trying to remember how we initially solved that (cause if we hadn't the icons wouldn't be aligned @ homescreen)14:14
SamTelegram[m]1. Check for nemoIcon, if so, skip 214:14
SamTelegram[m]2. Check for icon14:14
SamTelegram[m]3. Check for theme folder for the same filename as icon14:14
eekkelundqwazix, btw any updates getting the play.qwazix.com online ?:)14:16
TopiasTelegram[mReply to qwazix (IRC):14:16
TopiasTelegram[m><qwazix (IRC)> hmm, that's easy. I'll fix something up. I'm trying to remember how we initially solved that (cause if we hadn't the icons wouldn't be aligned @ homescreen)14:16
TopiasTelegram[mthe problem seems to have solved by having all icons the same size14:16
TopiasTelegram[mpadding included14:16
TopiasTelegram[mat least when I had a look at one of the icons14:17
qwazixare the icons scaled when displayed? we can make them display 1:1 and then make them bigger than the spec so that they display at the same size as the sailfish icons.14:17
qwazixthough that's dirty14:17
SamTelegram[m]I'd make them take all the border space14:18
SamTelegram[m]Then just give enough padding to breathe in qml14:18
qwazixre: grog, I now have access to the backup so I'll give it a go this week. I have to download a 200G MySql data folder and set up an Ubuntu 10.04 and that period mysql to try and get the db back14:19
eekkelundqwazix: super!:) thanks!14:20
qwazix(not the most fun of tasks, but yeah)14:20
qwazixI'll read the backlog and try responding too. It's good to revive this, and I'll try to be more active.14:22
eetuTelegram[m]#GlacierRevival14:22
qwazixalso I can't wait to try glacier on an Xperia14:23
TopiasTelegram[mqwazix: not sure if that hack is a good solution14:25
TopiasTelegram[m@samzn is right14:25
TopiasTelegram[mthe icons should take all the space and then the padding done in QML14:25
TopiasTelegram[msince this spec is a nightmare from a coding standpoint14:26
qwazixyeah but for those icons that nothing sticks out of the circle there needs to be some space in the png14:26
* SamTelegram[m] uploaded an image: Image_1491661723913.jpg (6KB) - https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/tchncs.de/GaEIpNBldVsttOqbDRdYqKZR14:27
* SamTelegram[m] uploaded an image: Image_1491661751154.jpg (9KB) - https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/tchncs.de/OQsGlavbLETGTMOykbLUZFkI14:28
qwazixotherwise we'd end up with circles of variable sizes14:28
SamTelegram[m]I think a breathing space of the size of a perfect square inside the circle is good enough for the glyph14:29
qwazixSamTelegram[m]: these icons don't have anything sticking out of the circle14:29
SamTelegram[m]They can still protude to the sidez14:29
SamTelegram[m]sides14:29
SamTelegram[m]A-la whatsapp14:29
qwazixhmmm, let me give it some thought and come up with something. Then we can discusss it in terms of ease of coding.14:31
TopiasTelegram[mqwazix: I know that14:31
TopiasTelegram[mI really do like the idea14:32
TopiasTelegram[mit's unique14:32
qwazixI'd rather not have to change the icons again. We have a lot of new ones to make14:32
TopiasTelegram[myeah, I know14:32
TopiasTelegram[mnothing wrong with the icons per se14:33
TopiasTelegram[mwhere the heck do I find LauncherFolderModel14:33
qwazixI'm leaning towards the 'nemoicon' in the .desktop file approach14:34
TopiasTelegram[mIt doesn't sound too bad of an approach14:34
SamTelegram[m]nemoicon should only work as a fallback for multiplat that target other OSes first14:35
AndreaBernabeifaReply to Topias (Telegram):14:35
AndreaBernabeifa>where the heck do I find LauncherFolderModel14:35
AndreaBernabeifaSounds like a lipstick-y element14:35
TopiasTelegram[myeah, it's lipstick14:35
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TopiasTelegram[mwelcome14:43
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JimCorriganTelegThanks14:43
JimCorriganTelegI'm braziliam14:44
TopiasTelegram[mHi, what brings you here?14:47
SamTelegram[m]oh no14:47
TopiasTelegram[moh no what?14:48
TopiasTelegram[mbtw @samzn, qwazix, would that new nemoicon parameter in the desktop file mean that the nemo lipstick models should be changed for it to work?14:49
SamTelegram[m]For people targeting multiplat, just add a line saying nemoIcon=whatever.png14:49
TopiasTelegram[mI get it14:49
TopiasTelegram[mbut14:49
TopiasTelegram[mto be able to utilize that14:49
SamTelegram[m]havent checked lipstick code deeply yet :D14:50
TopiasTelegram[mI think lipstick needs to be changed14:50
JimCorriganTelegI am a linux user and I liked Nemo but I can not install in my nokia n914:50
SamTelegram[m]yews14:50
SamTelegram[m]Where do you live Jim?14:50
SamTelegram[m]Which city14:50
TopiasTelegram[mseems like awful a lot of work just for fancy icons14:50
SamTelegram[m]Doesn't seem too difficult14:50
SamTelegram[m]If you want to focus on consistency it should be done14:51
SamTelegram[m]But shouldn't be high priority14:51
JimCorriganTelegReply to Sam (Telegram):14:53
JimCorriganTeleg>Where do you live Jim?14:53
JimCorriganTelegBrasil14:53
TopiasTelegram[mwhich city14:54
JimCorriganTelegSão paulo14:54
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EmanueleSorceTelwhere live my gran!14:54
JimCorriganTelegWhen I get up in the last part of the folder ALT_OS does not make the extraction14:56
qwazixTopiasTelegram[m: I don't remember the specifics but I don't think it should be too hard to make the padding in the qml dependent on a value in the .desktop14:57
JimCorriganTelegI follow the tutorial in maemo and only in that part that does not work14:57
qwazixanother possibility is to pad the icons at install time if a line in the rpm (yaml iirc?) is not present14:58
JimCorriganTelegHow so?15:01
TopiasTelegram[mReply to qwazix (IRC):15:01
TopiasTelegram[m><qwazix (IRC)> another possibility is to pad the icons at install time if a line in the rpm (yaml iirc?) is not present15:01
TopiasTelegram[mdon't follow15:01
TopiasTelegram[mseems weird15:01
TopiasTelegram[mbut I don't know much about lipstick code either15:02
TopiasTelegram[mphone icon looks cool but I don't think many people recognise the dial15:05
TopiasTelegram[mif kids these days don't know what the phone icon ear piece is15:06
TopiasTelegram[msince many kids haven't seen a landline in their whole life15:07
JimCorriganTelegThen I did everything right as the tutorial, only in the last part of that is to extract the image to the folder Alt_OS that gives an error... says that there is no such file in the directory15:08
qwazixTopiasTelegram[m: i know but the diskette is also something old but you just need to click it once to learn it so I don't think it'll be too confusing15:11
qwazixAlso we 're targeting people that by default like to tinker and see novel things15:13
qwazixgtg, will be back from PC in a few hours15:14
TopiasTelegram[mReply to qwazix (IRC):15:15
TopiasTelegram[m><qwazix (IRC)> Also we 're targeting people that by default like to tinker and see novel things15:15
TopiasTelegram[mI think you shouldn't limit design decisions based on the audience15:15
TopiasTelegram[mbut instead use concepts everyone understands15:15
JimCorriganTelegBut more so, when you lap the command at the command line of the linux terminal precisely this error that I mentioned15:15
JimCorriganTelegI really want to use Nemo mobile, the ICQ works on it?15:16
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* SamTelegram[m] uploaded an image: Image_1491664686920.jpg (22KB) - https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/tchncs.de/KqHstjzSSagvvNCIWOLjDQBO15:17
* SamTelegram[m] uploaded an image: Image_1491664738931.jpg (6KB) - https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/tchncs.de/qRedaAXfskYWuGuEpRbmZezp15:18
SamTelegram[m]thoughts?15:18
SamTelegram[m]still working on calendar, I think gradient is too strong15:20
eetuTelegram[m]So the old icon set is not good orr? 😨15:22
eetuTelegram[m]https://web.archive.org/web/20160406232500im_/http://play.qwazix.com/grog/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/iconset-359x1024.png15:22
SamTelegram[m]I'm just prototyping15:24
JimCorriganTelegICQ works in Nemo?15:24
eetuTelegram[m]Reply to Sam (Telegram):15:39
eetuTelegram[m]>I'm just prototyping15:39
eetuTelegram[m]Oko looks nice :) IMO15:39
TopiasTelegram[m@Jim_corrigan I don't know what you use to connect to ICQ15:41
TopiasTelegram[mdidn't know anyone uses it these days...15:41
JimCorriganTelegWhich App do you use?15:42
TopiasTelegram[mI don't use ICQ15:42
TopiasTelegram[mafaik, there's no ICQ client for Sailfish OS nor Nemo15:43
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JimCorriganTelegReply to Topias (Telegram):15:56
JimCorriganTeleg>afaik, there's no ICQ client for Sailfish OS nor Nemo15:56
JimCorriganTelegAnd whatsapp?15:56
SamTelegram[m]whatsapp is proprietary and third party clients stopped working15:56
JimCorriganTelegReply to Sam (Telegram):15:57
JimCorriganTeleg>whatsapp is proprietary and third party clients stopped working15:57
JimCorriganTelegHas no?15:57
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SergeyChupliginTok i comback online. So what happining on chat ? :)16:07
TopiasTelegram[mwe were discussing about the iconography16:07
TopiasTelegram[msome programming challenges happen because of the iconography style16:08
SergeyChupliginTyea...icons it primary...without app :)))16:08
SamTelegram[m]kek16:11
SergeyChupliginTokay...i have a beer...i have a toolbar...ahhhhhh...i go away coding :)16:13
* SamTelegram[m] uploaded an image: Image_1491668081718.jpg (19KB) - https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/tchncs.de/mWFcOJOnmccPRePtbDjAImxG16:13
SamTelegram[m]maybe this flatter?16:13
* SamTelegram[m] uploaded an image: Image_1491668142538.jpg (18KB) - https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/tchncs.de/udjMshlTqnBxLWiBzjiEWHpZ16:14
eetuTelegram[m]Reply to Sergey Игоревич Chupligin (Telegram):16:16
eetuTelegram[m]>okay...i have a beer...i have a toolbar...ahhhhhh...i go away coding :)16:16
eetuTelegram[m]👌😂16:16
TopiasTelegram[m@samzn I must say you're a wizard with these icons16:20
SamTelegram[m]I'm just a guy starving on a third world shithole16:20
TopiasTelegram[mlol, doesn't sound too nice16:20
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SamTelegram[m]Generic icons aren't too hard to construct once you have a solid guideline16:21
SamTelegram[m]I'll put it all in a collection and see what the team thinks16:22
SamTelegram[m]I'll make some protuding as well16:22
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maljust a little thing I noticed, the current statusbar doesn't support multisim devices16:37
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SergeyChupliginTReply to mal (IRC):16:54
SergeyChupliginT><mal (IRC)> just a little thing I noticed, the current statusbar doesn't support multisim devices16:54
SergeyChupliginTyea...i know it. I thnk it not problem16:54
coderusguys, you fu**ing flooded this irc channel: http://www.merproject.org/logs/%23nemomobile/latest.log.html16:58
coderusthats why i fu**ing hate such bridges/gates/matrix/shmatrix things17:00
TopiasTelegram[mflooded how?17:00
TopiasTelegram[myou mean these reply lines?17:01
malwell my FP2 is dual-sim so I'll probably try to fix it17:01
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TopiasTelegram[mReply to mal (IRC):17:03
TopiasTelegram[m><mal (IRC)> just a little thing I noticed, the current statusbar doesn't support multisim devices17:03
TopiasTelegram[myea...i know it. I thnk it not problem17:03
malactually I cannot even enter the pin on fp2 at the moment17:03
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SamTelegram[m]I had that issue, hacky fix is to slide, turn off screen while lockscreen is on edge17:05
malI cannot even get the lockscreen to show17:05
TopiasTelegram[mproblems with lockscreen on jp1 too17:06
malthe device claims no pin is required which is not true17:07
malmaybe ofono has changed somehow and the current code fails17:07
coderusTopiasTelegram[m: yes these replay lines. 3 lines of text instead one17:10
coderusyou beaking irc experience :(17:11
SamTelegram[m]sorry lad :(17:11
coderus:(17:12
kimmolia bit too noisy17:12
coderusand these long XXXTelegram[m] nicknames are breaking my mind17:12
eekkelundcoderus, sorry. But nemomobile is getting a lot more discussion this way..:/17:12
SamTelegram[m]can we change it so on the irc bridge it's simpler?17:13
coderuseekkelund: no problem, just configure your/not your, doesnt matter, irc bridge to make messages here match irc way17:14
TopiasTelegram[mirc side could be more simple17:14
TopiasTelegram[mthe telegram irc bot on the other hand worked a lot better on irc side17:15
TopiasTelegram[mmuch less spammy than this matrix bot17:15
coderusi hope it can be configured17:15
TopiasTelegram[mprobably not17:16
TopiasTelegram[mwell it could17:16
TopiasTelegram[mbut then it would look the same on the matrix side17:16
TopiasTelegram[mif people are fine with it on matrix side then sure17:16
TopiasTelegram[mfor now, use less replies17:17
eekkelundI think matrix side has less users and doesn't have logging. So I would say IRC clean, matrix more spammy :)17:17
TopiasTelegram[mhow do you configure the matrix bot though...17:17
TopiasTelegram[mbut it's either or pretty much17:18
TopiasTelegram[msince it goes telegram <> matrix <> irc17:18
TopiasTelegram[m@M1kaela you know about the matrix bridge17:19
TopiasTelegram[mbtw, how do I find the channel on matrix17:20
MkaelaTelegram[mReply to Topias (Telegram):17:20
MkaelaTelegram[m>@M1kaela you know about the matrix bridge17:20
MkaelaTelegram[mWhat is the question, sorry I just got home and am half-asleep (thank goodness it's over and tomorrow is just excited partying)17:20
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MkaelaTelegram[mReply to Topias (Telegram):17:21
MkaelaTelegram[m>btw, how do I find the channel on matrix17:21
MkaelaTelegram[m#nemo:matrix.org17:21
TopiasTelegram[mwe have a thing here17:21
TopiasTelegram[mpeople don't like the matrix telegram bot17:21
TopiasTelegram[mor how it displays replys17:22
TopiasTelegram[mis it possible to configure it so that it looks similar to how teleirc worked?17:22
TopiasTelegram[mI guess we should use teleirc instead of matrix bridge17:26
TopiasTelegram[mthat is more irc friendly17:27
TopiasTelegram[malso would fix the long names17:27
TopiasTelegram[mI don't like them either... I would prefer my name to be displayed as toxip in irc or something17:28
MkaelaTelegram[mI guess you should ask Milan / @tchncs. I am sadly not available for running TeleIRC, one instance is enough bother and as I possibly said earlier, I moved it to PirateIRC.17:28
TopiasTelegram[myeah, I know, you're already more than enough overloaded17:29
TopiasTelegram[mmaybe @eekkelund? you got a raspberry pi?17:29
MkaelaTelegram[mIt might be fun to run two instances though, but I tried to have less things depending on me...17:29
MkaelaTelegram[mI would have a Pi, but it's offline most of time and I tend to save energy by not running modem and router or anything else at night or when I leave the apartment since I moved to stock electricity price17:30
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SamTelegram[m]Why don't we have Glacier like this :)17:34
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TopiasTelegram[mare you being lazy with the labels?17:35
SamTelegram[m]just a mockup17:35
TopiasTelegram[mthose are quite pretty icons I give you that17:36
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SamTelegram[m]better?17:37
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TopiasTelegram[myes :)17:38
SamTelegram[m]I want the team's feedback on this17:38
SamTelegram[m]Couldn't think of produting icons so far17:39
locusfnice :)17:39
SergeyChupliginTReply to Sam (Telegram):17:39
SergeyChupliginTLike tizen :))))))17:39
SamTelegram[m]D:17:40
TopiasTelegram[mwell, not gonna use that shit then :D17:42
TopiasTelegram[mtizen, eww, take it away from me :D17:43
TopiasTelegram[mit does look a bit touchwiz esque17:45
TopiasTelegram[mat least these generic, phone, video, music etc17:45
TopiasTelegram[min comparison, the nemo styling is more like items associated in the real world17:47
TopiasTelegram[mclock, notes and calendar icons of @samzn's set are more in line with that17:48
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TopiasTelegram[m@qwazix I have a suggestion17:50
maljust a small comment about the calendar icon, I think it's better if it would not have the month text as it should be language independent17:51
TopiasTelegram[mgood point17:51
TopiasTelegram[manyway, what if the icons could have protruding items only in the corners?17:52
eetuTelegram[m]nemo-maliiiit17:52
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TopiasTelegram[mwhat's this? :O17:52
eetuTelegram[m]maliit keyboard :D17:52
eetuTelegram[m]nemo version :)17:52
SamTelegram[m]i love it17:54
TopiasTelegram[mveery nice :)17:56
TopiasTelegram[mis that nipple in the middle for gestures?17:57
SergeyChupliginTReply to eetu (Telegram):17:57
SergeyChupliginTsweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet17:57
TopiasTelegram[m@samzn you could make a nice icon theme with those icons17:59
eetuTelegram[m]yeah, that is for cursor interaction like in thinkpads :)18:01
eetuTelegram[m]https://web.archive.org/web/20160308062045/http://play.qwazix.com/grog/?p=62618:01
TopiasTelegram[mso it could move the text cursor around?18:02
eetuTelegram[m]Yes :)18:02
SamTelegram[m]wp10 had a nice implementation of the nipple18:03
SamTelegram[m]could be better if you could just scroll with gestures instead of a virtual keypad18:03
eetuTelegram[m]I just made the old one scalable, the keyboard was ready. And made the cursor be usable, it wasn't in the old one :)18:03
SamTelegram[m]like bb1018:03
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qwazixhi again, time to read the backlog18:06
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TopiasTelegram[mwelcome back qwazix18:09
SamTelegram[m]What is your feedback on the icons qwazix18:11
SamTelegram[m]https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/tchncs.de/uGydXIbukzwNPKwHzhZzSUrD18:12
qwazixSamTelegram[m], need to check the homescreen qml a bit, give me a sec18:12
SamTelegram[m]can you give me some ideas of protusion?18:12
SamTelegram[m]ok18:12
qwazixSamTelegram[m], they are nice icons, though I didn't know we were to move away from these http://vtkpp.dy.fi/fp2/nemo/20170408114330.png18:14
SamTelegram[m]I'm just prototyping some ideas, nothing is decided to change18:14
SamTelegram[m]But I think cleaner icons look better visually and for the PR of the project, even in early stages18:15
TopiasTelegram[mqwazix: one idea for the protruding elements18:15
TopiasTelegram[mdo you think it would suffice to have the protruding parts only in the corners18:15
TopiasTelegram[mso that the dimensions of the icons wouldn't extend too much18:16
qwazixok, my idea was to have some things stick out of the circle just so there's the idea of breaking out of the box.18:16
TopiasTelegram[mthe edges of the circle would fit a rectangle18:16
qwazixTopiasTelegram[m, it's not a bad idea18:16
TopiasTelegram[min the case of the weather icon for instance, the little zigzag pattern would be right at the edge18:18
TopiasTelegram[mand the cloud could extend out of the corner18:18
TopiasTelegram[mthis would be much easier to make the icons match the UI18:18
qwazixYep, and as I see it, only the irc icon and packages icon would need to be 'fixed'18:19
qwazixmaybe maps too18:19
TopiasTelegram[mmusic and weather18:19
TopiasTelegram[mI think they need to be fixed too18:20
TopiasTelegram[mgallery size needs to be fixed18:21
TopiasTelegram[mmaybe18:21
qwazixyep18:21
TopiasTelegram[monly small adjustments needed18:21
qwazixthough the irc one was my favorite :-)18:21
TopiasTelegram[myou don't need to change the style18:22
qwazixweather fits ok18:22
qwazixjust needs scaling18:22
TopiasTelegram[mthe cloud doesn't extend too far?18:22
qwazixno, I just checked, it doesn't stick out of the jagged edges18:23
TopiasTelegram[mcamera?18:23
TopiasTelegram[mI think it does18:23
qwazixon a closer zoom it sticks out ever so slightly. Can be fixed bu nudging left18:24
TopiasTelegram[mstore icon is a bit too abstract in my opinion though18:24
TopiasTelegram[mpeople don't associate a package into apps18:24
qwazixTopiasTelegram[m, it was back when there was a package manager, not store. It was actually something close to synaptic18:25
TopiasTelegram[mI see18:25
qwazixignore that, we'll make a new one18:25
TopiasTelegram[malright18:26
TopiasTelegram[mbut yeah, I think this is a good solution for the icon scale issue :)18:26
qwazixalso I think that we get away with a very small size difference between our icons and sailfish ones, so that we have a bit more space to accomodate the protrusions18:26
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TopiasTelegram[mthat could work too18:27
qwazixbtw where's the repo with the actual icons used?18:28
TopiasTelegram[mso add a slight padding outside the circle18:28
TopiasTelegram[m@eekkelund do you know?18:28
eetuTelegram[m]Is it this one https://github.com/nemomobile-ux/nemo-theme-glacier/tree/master/cc3/icons18:29
qwazixyep, 3-5%18:29
eetuTelegram[m]@locusf any idea?18:30
qwazixthat should be it, but I see only png's18:30
eetuTelegram[m]hmh18:30
locusfyes thats it18:30
qwazixOk, then how do we include the svg's in there?18:31
TopiasTelegram[mReply to Sam (Telegram):18:31
TopiasTelegram[mhaving a similar guideline for the styles would be good18:31
SamTelegram[m]These prototypes are following a set style similar to the one from Nokia18:31
TopiasTelegram[mReply to Sam (Telegram):18:32
TopiasTelegram[mthis18:32
locusfactually18:32
locusfhttps://github.com/nemomobile-ux/nemo-artwork18:32
qwazixshouldn't we have the typical freedesktop directory structure (48x48, 96x96, scalable, etc.)18:32
qwazixlocusf thanks, I'll do a pull request there with the modified icons18:33
TopiasTelegram[mqwazix18:33
TopiasTelegram[mI think if you use the weather icon zagged edges as a reference18:34
TopiasTelegram[madd that much extra space around the icons18:34
TopiasTelegram[mso it's only a couple more pixels18:35
qwazixI resized the svg viewbox to 90 instead of 100 and now the difference with the sailfish icon looks like this http://qwazix.com/shared/rect4533.png18:47
qwazixand almost everything fits with very minor modifications18:48
TopiasTelegram[mthat is already a tremendous difference18:53
TopiasTelegram[mmuch better!18:54
TopiasTelegram[mand the irc icon still fits as is?18:54
TopiasTelegram[mqwazix18:54
qwazixit needs a very minor mod18:54
qwazixrefresh your browser tab18:56
TopiasTelegram[mbrowser tab?18:57
qwazixthe new image fits, the left is just moved a bit off center, the right has the two bubbles resized a little18:57
qwazixyeah the image I just shared, I overwrote it18:57
qwazixhttp://qwazix.com/shared/rect4533.png18:57
TopiasTelegram[mI think sailfish icons are 85px18:58
qwazixThis solution also 'fixes' the 'other way around' problem, of installing nemo apps on sailfish, which the 'nemoIcon' line solution didn't address unless jolla modified their home too18:59
TopiasTelegram[msounds good18:59
qwazixactual size doesn't really matter18:59
TopiasTelegram[mperfect!18:59
TopiasTelegram[mdo nemo apps use svg by default?18:59
qwazixok, I'll fix them all, export png's and do pull request19:00
TopiasTelegram[mexcellent!19:00
qwazixno, I think they use png's but we should be dpi-independent anyway. We've discussed a few ways to do that, and the consensus was to create png's at install time19:01
TopiasTelegram[minteresting19:02
qwazixdepending on the dpi of the device. That doesn't solve the issue of external displays however. With the modern hardware my opinion is to re-examine the possibility of displaying svg's directly and just limit the features of the svg19:02
TopiasTelegram[mso it takes the svg and converts it to png on install19:02
qwazixsymbian did that ages ago19:03
qwazixTopiasTelegram[m, I don't think that was ever implemented19:03
TopiasTelegram[mwell, the idea of it anyway19:03
SamTelegram[m]gnome can use svg icons19:03
SamTelegram[m]but I think for now we could juse use high res png files19:03
TopiasTelegram[mI think using svg would be a sustainable solution19:03
TopiasTelegram[magreed19:04
qwazixYeah. For the OS it would be a line in the .ks so that png's were created upon image creation, and for apps as a post-install script. Imagemagick is there anyway19:04
qwazixback then, we decided not to do svg's due to scrolling performance considerations19:05
TopiasTelegram[moh...19:05
eetuTelegram[m]One can put script inside od svg, is that  security wise good idea?:D19:05
TopiasTelegram[mgood point19:05
qwazixI don't think that's an issue19:06
eetuTelegram[m]but that is just third party icons, I think that our own icons are safe :D19:06
SamTelegram[m]generate a raster image from the svg on runtime19:06
SamTelegram[m]generating per device icons is stupid19:06
qwazixYou've just installed an app which had root priviliges to run its post install scripts, why would anyone put a malicious script in the icon19:06
SamTelegram[m]or use high res png19:06
qwazixnot to mention that the homescreen viewer is unlikely to run scripts in the svg19:07
TopiasTelegram[mis it possible to have multiple icon sizes?19:08
TopiasTelegram[mlike generate 45 85 and 105 for instance19:08
SamTelegram[m]Android does that19:09
SamTelegram[m]we could have something similar if we use nemoIcon on the .desktop19:09
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SamTelegram[m]https://gitlab.com/xphnx/twelf_cm12_theme/tree/master/theme/src/main/assets/icons/res19:10
SamTelegram[m]the icon selected is rounded up based on the dpi value19:10
* SamTelegram[m] uploaded an image: Image_1491678756050.jpg (33KB) - https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/tchncs.de/dqrcVrWzsqUkZfcUarttjowP19:11
SamTelegram[m]a 400dpi phone would get a xxhdpi icon19:11
qwazixWe could just create a cache of icons from svg the first time a new dpi is detected (i.e. if a new display is present, or after install)19:14
qwazixso that we have exactly the size we need and we don't have to force developers to create so many icons.19:15
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SamTelegram[m]if it's too much trouble to implement svg rasterization I'd rather just do multiple icons19:16
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SamTelegram[m]all other systems do so, and often it's automatically packaged19:16
qwazixmogrify -density 200 -format png icon-app-clock.svg19:17
qwazixthough there's the issue that imagemagick doesn't support everything that inkscape does19:18
SamTelegram[m]wouldn't there  be disparity of resources between two devices19:18
qwazixSamTelegram[m], meaning?19:19
SamTelegram[m]that could be set per developer19:19
qwazixthat imagemagick might not be installed?19:19
SamTelegram[m]no but if the user connects to another display, or somehow transfers an app to another phone, the icon would be in disparity19:20
SamTelegram[m]I can work on a DPI system for lipstick19:20
qwazixif the user connects to another display, the phone should look in the cache folder for the required size, and if not found create a png at that time19:21
qwazixthe same if someone moves an app, though I don't think it's a use case we should worry about, given the steps required to do so19:21
qwazixrpm's are not apk's19:22
SamTelegram[m]yeah, I think if a developer wants to pack an svg to then be tailored to the specific dpi it could be done in a script on their archive upon install19:23
qwazixyeah that was the original idea. But that doesn't solve the 'new display connected' problem19:24
SamTelegram[m]deploying icons with multiple dpi does19:25
qwazixFreedesktop already specs this https://standards.freedesktop.org/icon-theme-spec/icon-theme-spec-latest.html#install_icons19:25
SamTelegram[m]hmm19:25
qwazixwe can do both. Allow shipping multiple icons, and if a scalable.svg is present and we want to, we can fill in the blanks. Either at install or at runtime19:26
SamTelegram[m]that's probably even better there's a standard for this19:26
qwazixText in icons should be converted to paths in order for rasterization to work correctly. But it's good to keep the original as source somewhere, how to do that in the repo?19:37
qwazixShould I create an 'src' folder?19:37
qwazixI could also move the text in a hidden layer19:38
qwazix*to a hidden layer19:38
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TopiasTelegram[mprobably better to have only the necessities in the svg used for rasterization19:49
qwazixcan somebody add me to the nemomobile organization on github so that I can create a PR for the icons without forking?19:49
qwazixTopiasTelegram[m, agreed. I hope an src folder won't break anything.19:50
mallocusf: ^ maybe you can do that19:50
locusfyeah can do19:50
locusfqwazix: for the artwork?19:51
locusfinvited19:52
qwazixlocusf thanks19:53
qwazixSergeyChupliginT, reading the log, header is 60u not 50, nice catch20:04
qwazix(75 with shadow)20:05
malhmm, I still find the header a bit high20:05
qwazixbtw, when editing the svg spec files with the new inkscape you should choose "ignore" otherwise the pixel sizes will me mangled.20:08
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SamTelegram[m]What is the goal regarding the statusbar?20:24
SamTelegram[m]Is it going to be visible in apps later (maybe as a separate wayland window) and is it going to stay on the bottom of the screen?20:25
qwazixSamTelegram[m], the idea was to be hidden, like sailfish, and the user could just 'peek' to see it by swiping a bit from the bottom20:31
qwazixcould also be a setting whether it stays visible or not20:32
SamTelegram[m]could see on that, I'm loving messing with qml  too20:33
qwazixAs it doesn't take real estate at all times, it compensates by being bigger and clickable20:33
SamTelegram[m]seems that rotateWindowContent property on SwitcherItem.qml is incorrect, at least on hammerhead20:34
SamTelegram[m]it rotates if the device is portrait, but the nexus 5 is a native portrait device so I think it rotates twice20:35
SamTelegram[m]setting it to false gets the multitask menu to render properly20:35
qwazixAnother idea is to allow the user to "dock" it, kinda like the header. If you swipe the app upwards and release (without momentum) just when the statusbar is wholly visible, the app may resize and stay there20:35
* SamTelegram[m] uploaded an image: Image_1491683785801.jpg (85KB) - https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/tchncs.de/ujNIVWlDFtMHPfKkXvPOBKVH20:35
SamTelegram[m]I like that idea20:35
qwazixhowever I don't know how you could bring it back to fullscreen after that20:35
SamTelegram[m]just swipe a little bit from the bottom20:35
SamTelegram[m]to top20:35
qwazixhmm, okay, sounds good20:36
malI'm doing investigation on multi-sim support20:37
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TopiasTelegram[mimo the statusbar icons are too small to be clickable properly20:43
TopiasTelegram[mmaybe add a slide function20:43
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TopiasTelegram[mso you can slide through each one and it would show little menus20:44
qwazixhttps://github.com/nemomobile-ux/nemo-artwork/pull/120:50
qwazix+1 to the slide idea20:50
qwazixor we could just make the status bar bigger20:50
SamTelegram[m]do it like the n920:52
SamTelegram[m]you touch the statusbar and it expands it20:52
qwazixIt would take two taps to open a menu then20:52
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qwazixSlide is nicer. If you tap on the wrong place just readjust and the right menu opens.20:53
qwazixlike ubuntu touch20:54
qwazix(RIP)20:54
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TopiasTelegram[mExcept no scrolling21:14
TopiasTelegram[mI think status bar can't afford to be any bigger21:14
TopiasTelegram[mMaybe we should do a nemo hackathon21:18
SamTelegram[m]would be nice21:21
SamTelegram[m]specially if there is enough buzz21:21
SamTelegram[m]we could get visibility on phoronix etc21:21
SamTelegram[m]maybe even help from jolla21:21
JimCorriganTelegCan someone share a cool video demo of the Nemo mobile?21:36
EmanueleSorceTelHow much is FOSS of Nemo Mobile source?21:46
EmanueleSorceTelReply to Jim Corrigan (Telegram):21:46
EmanueleSorceTel>Can someone share a cool video demo of the Nemo mobile?21:46
EmanueleSorceTel+121:46
SamTelegram[m]Reply to Emanuele Sorce (Telegram):21:47
SamTelegram[m]>How much is FOSS of Nemo Mobile source?21:47
SamTelegram[m]100% :)21:47
EmanueleSorceTelWow21:47
JimCorriganTelegA video showing it as well!21:47
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malodd behavior, for some reason the StatusBarItems in a Repeater get a huge font size22:04
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MariusGripsgardTForwarded this from the Sailfish OS group22:51
MariusGripsgardTMe (ubports) and @bhushanshah (plasma) had the idea if we could work all together on a common Android+libhybris+kernel base under a separate common banner? This way we can enable much more devices together. I really think this can benefit us all. Is this something sailfish would be interested in discussing with us?22:51

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