Tuesday, 2018-02-06

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marmistrzWhy does Nemo develop its own component set instead of implementing the styling for usual Qt Quick Controls?16:54
locusftheres both actually16:57
T4<faenil> @marmistrz [<marmistrz> Why does Nemo develop its own comp …], Glacier controls are currently just a theme of QtQuickControls 1...the plan is to rebase on top of QtQuickControls217:03
T4<neochapay> @faenil [Glacier controls are currently just a theme of …], Not only theme17:04
T4<faenil> Well styling plus some glacier-specific controls that qqc doesn't have17:04
T4<samzn> Is there a list of all elements implemented by QtQuickControls2?17:05
T4<samzn> [Edit] Is there a list of all components implemented by QtQuickControls2?17:06
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T4<faenil> Official documentation?17:19
marmistrzfaenil, if it's just a theme, why import QtQuick.Controls.Nemo 1.0?17:33
marmistrzwhy isn't the glacier home just using the usual Qt Quick controls?17:33
T4<neochapay> Becouse you don`t rewrite it ? ^_^17:37
T4<eekkelund> We have some specific controls to make it more NemoMobile style(eg. calculating sizes, theme colors, image provider)  and more mobile friendly. Also there is some controls that makes developers life easier. …  I assume it could be possible to do the separation if really needed.17:39
r0kk3rzits qml, creating your own controls is pretty much everything :)17:43
r0kk3rzmarmistrz: do you have a particular point you're trying to make?17:46
marmistrzr0kk3rz, I just mean that it's increasing the fragmentation even more. Silica, Quick Controls, Glacier17:49
marmistrzideally you would just write once, run everywhere, like it is with the standard desktop GUI libraries. they don't depend on the DE you're using17:49
r0kk3rzubuntu created their own qml components17:50
r0kk3rzso do kde with kirigami17:50
r0kk3rzsuch is the way17:50
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T4<eekkelund> You don't need to create your app with Nemo components you can create it with 'basic' Qt.Quick.Controls. But to have Nemo look and feel using nemo components is recomended17:51
marmistrzOh, that's great. So to support all of these, you'd need to maintain 5 source trees17:51
marmistrzone for sailfish, one for nemo, one for ubuntu, one for kirigami, one for usual controls17:52
marmistrzwhy not simply a theme for controls, like it's done in qt for Android?17:52
r0kk3rzor just pick one and package it, or create your own :)17:53
T4<eekkelund> Yeah, but like discussed in TMO, you could use MartinK's Universal Components (hopefully in the future also with nemo)17:53
r0kk3rztbh having looked at UC stuff, the basic things are easy but it quicky gets nonsensical with particular ui paradigms17:54
r0kk3rzyou end up with the lowest common denominator, which gets smaller the more component sets you add17:54
marmistrzOf course, we can use the universal components. But what's the point of creating a separate components set just to later wrap it into universal components17:56
r0kk3rzwell, its open source and everyone wants to do their own thing :P17:56
r0kk3rzso bad luck17:56
marmistrz:P17:56
T4<eekkelund> As said one can use just Qt.Quick.Components. But good idea would be to have Nemo.Theme/Style in different package that would add Nemo styliing to those components :)17:57
r0kk3rzyeah thats probably the best compromise for app developers17:58
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r0kk3rzbut for the system, i dont see why you cant roll your own things if needed18:00
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marmistrz> But good idea would be to have Nemo.Theme/Style in different package18:02
marmistrzused directly by the devs or by the controls without the devs directly using it.18:02
r0kk3rzthats generally how themes work iirc, but that said im sure you can abuse the theme so things end up looking terrible and wrong18:04
T4<zarelit> r0kk3rz, UC can also be a jumpstart, then when you have some more users on a specific platform, you can write the specific ui for that platform much like with platform-specific components of react native, imo18:06
T4<zarelit> That is, if it is feasible with UC18:06
T4<samzn> react native linux uses Qt Quick components afaik lol18:07
T4<zarelit> kek18:11
marmistrzeekkelund: would it be like QtQuick.Controls.Styles.Android, which is usually not used directly by the developers?18:33
T4<faenil> @marmistrz [<marmistrz> faenil, if it's just a theme, why …], I don't remember the details as last time I worked on it was 5 years ago :D But QtQuickControls applications should definitely run on Nemo. If it requires modification, it's not intended. If then you want to provide the full Glacier experience, you are free to have a separate sp18:33
T4ecialized UI which uses the additional Glacier components which are not present in QQC. But that should not be a must. Let me just make my point clear: I agree 100% that mobile linux distros need to be able to run standard QtQuickControls applications out of the box, with Glacier styling without needing any modifications to sourcecode.18:33
T4<faenil> I agree that Plasma/Nemo/whatever should be able to run the same unmodified application out of the box, each with its own theming. I also agree that those platform can offer additional extra components that provide added value, as their designers see fit. Are we on the same page? :)18:34
malthat would be ideal but depending on how different the themes are it might be quite difficult18:35
T4<faenil> it should not be, that is what QtQuickControls was conceived for. If that happens, I believe that is a theming failure18:36
malbut if for example margins and padding etc are very different then on some platform it looks ok and stuff fits to screen but not on other platform18:37
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T4<faenil> Sure, that can happen. That is something we cannot fix, it's the inherent problem of having theming isn't it. If on Android you select a different font and change the default font size, then some things won't fit in the boxes :) It's expected, imho18:40
marmistrzin other words, the platform-specific extras which are not common in any other distro.18:42
marmistrzthat sounds fine18:42
marmistrzs/distro/platform/18:42
T4<samzn> Does nemo presently include QtQuick218:42
T4<samzn> Afaik all I contributed on was on qtquick118:42
T4<faenil> @marmistrz [<marmistrz> in other words, the platform-speci …], great :)18:42
malbut that forces app developers to make platform specific code to make sure it works on all wanted platforms18:43
T4<faenil> @samzn [Does nemo presently include QtQuick2], I'd say it's QtQuick2, the move happened with Qt5, years ago18:43
T4<samzn> I might be free on the weekend, I can look into those matters18:43
marmistrzmal, I assume they do a generic QtQuick Controls for most platforms and a platform-specific version for a single one18:43
marmistrzand assume that this can't be solved by theming18:44
T4<faenil> @mal [<mal> but that forces app developers to make p …], If you have 2 platforms with different font sizes, some strings won't fix in the boxes, there is no way around that. You can only fix that by enforcing style guidelines across all distros, which I don't think is feasible...never say never, sure18:45
T4<faenil> (unless you use px font sizes in your UI, which however has other cons). but the font one is just an example18:45
T4<samzn> I reckon there was a bunch of DPI inconsistencies between Ubuntu Touch and Nemo18:46
T4<samzn> [Edit] I reckon there was a bunch of DPI inconsistencies between Ubuntu Touch and Nemo porting18:47
T4<faenil> Ubuntu was not QQC based, fwiw18:48
T4<samzn> Good point18:49
T4<faenil> on a side note: that happened because QQC2 were still in early stages (or not even implemented yet, afair) when Ubuntu Touch was developed. The plan was to port Ubuntu UITK to QtQuickControls2, and actually that porting work had already begun right before Ubuntu Touch was discontinued18:51
T4<faenil> anyone who creates a new Qt based distro and doesn't base its components set on QQC is looking for trouble, imho :D18:55
T4<samzn> I've been wanting to make a new design spec proposal for nemo for a while and I think basing it all on QQC2 might be a smart choice18:56
T4<faenil> 👍 although I wouldn't start from scratch again, since we have not even completed the previous design yet ;)18:57
T4<samzn> Ya, ditching everything would be a waste of engineering resources18:57
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marmistrzAnd what's the point of kirigami?19:18
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T4<samzn> I have a question regarding lipstick, are all windows that are drawn with it just a texture surface handled by wayland put on a rectangle?19:39
T4<faenil> @marmistrz [<marmistrz> And what's the point of kirigami?], What do you mean? Kirigami is also QQC2 based19:41
T4<samzn> [Edit] I have a question regarding lipstick, are all windows that are drawn with it just a texture surface handled by wayland put on a rectangle on glacier?19:41
T4<faenil> @samzn [I have a question regarding lipstick, are all …], I think so, but I don't know about that part. I remember the multitasking view miniatures required additional logic19:42
T4<eekkelund> Multitasking miniatures are `GlacierWindowModel::GlacierWindowModel(): WindowModel()` … Apps are windows inside of thes winow wrappers https://github.com/nemomobile-ux/glacier-home/tree/master/src/qml/compositor … locusf, any more knowledge?19:43
locusfwindowpixmapitem19:43
locusfthats at least the one I know19:44
locusfbut yeah, its more like qtwayland that draws the stuff, lipstick just offers a compositor interface to show them windows19:44
locusftoo slow :)19:44
T4<eekkelund> @locusf [<locusf> too slow :)], but more info :D19:45
locusfmyeah19:45
locusfdidn't know window models could draw miniatures :) https://git.merproject.org/mer-core/lipstick/blob/master/src/compositor/windowmodel.h19:53
locusfthis acts as a delegate for the model https://git.merproject.org/mer-core/lipstick/blob/master/src/compositor/windowpixmapitem.h19:54
locusfhttps://github.com/nemomobile-ux/glacier-home/blob/master/src/qml/AppSwitcher.qml#L10919:55
T4<samzn> It's so nice how everything is handled by Lipstick & Qt itself under wayland19:55
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locusfthe waters are quite muddy underneath19:56
T4<samzn> Heh19:57
locusfie. the design effort required to build eg the scenegraph and buffer handling with hardware specific stuff19:57
locusfquite astounding19:57
marmistrzfaenil, I mean, what do they miss in qt quick controls20:03
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T4<faenil> @marmistrz [<marmistrz> faenil, I mean, what do they miss …], Ah, I don't know kirigami enougj to answer that22:22
T4<faenil> @marmistrz [<marmistrz> faenil, I mean, what do they miss …], [Edit] Ah, I don't know kirigami enough to answer that22:23
T4<bhushanshah> Hello, I see kirigami mentioned in backlog quite a log.. 🙃22:41
T4<bhushanshah> Can I help with anything?22:41
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