Monday, 2019-04-08

T4<abranson> yeah, there's a common misconception that jolla do very little open source, because all the public packages are on the mer git. in reality all those packages and nemo qml plugins have been maintained by jolla people for a good few years.09:15
T4<abranson> i'd very much like to make sure we're building open source alternatives to most of the closed stuff for people to play around with. a good example is piggz' camera app, that has enabled a lot of community testing and improvement of the media middleware that's always been open source but always difficult to play with behind a closed camer09:17
T4a ui09:17
T4<Hound77> What device does Nemo runs great ?09:29
T4<NotKit> it is not in usable state for general user09:32
T4<neochapay> but you can test at all jolla devices09:34
T4<meierrom> @Hound77 [What device does Nemo runs great ?], Maybe best on Hammerhead :)09:39
r0kk3rztheres really nothing special about hammerhead09:40
r0kk3rzit'll work more or less the same on any sfos ported device09:40
T4<Hound77> Is Nemo completely open source ?10:55
T4<akaWolf> @abranson [yeah, there's a common misconception that joll …], yeah, that's why all those are outdated10:56
T4<abranson> @akaWolf [yeah, that's why all those are outdated], eh, it's getting there. stuff's a lot less old than it was.10:59
r0kk3rzyeah nemo is full open sauce11:00
T4<Hound77> Then people should get into Nemo than Sailfish OS.11:01
T4<akaWolf> we have a lot of devices much older then a few Jolla phones, and did an amazing work getting new gcc and Qt 5.12 work11:01
T4<akaWolf> including writing own platform plugins and so one11:02
T4<abranson> @Hound77 [Then people should get into Nemo than Sailfish …], I don't see why that needs to be such a distinct choice. they can both improve the other.11:03
T4<akaWolf> [Edit] including writing own platform plugins and so on11:04
T4<Hound77> @abranson [I don't see why that needs to be such a distin …], I'm the UI part is open.11:04
T4<Hound77> @abranson [I don't see why that needs to be such a distin …], [Edit] The UI part is open.11:04
T4<abranson> yes, and all the middleware is shared.11:05
r0kk3rzsfos is a lot more usable than nemo, but you're more than welcome to contribute here11:05
T4<Hound77> Yeah some day. Perhaps a crowd funding.11:06
T4<Hound77> [Edit] Yeah someday. Perhaps a crowd funding.11:06
T4<Hound77> [Edit] Yeah someday. Perhaps a crowd donation.11:06
T4<neochapay> haha...last and only dotation i got over 2 yars ago..and not for nemo :) Someone got me 5$ for prostogramm ^_^11:09
T4<Hound77> Who maintains mostly ?11:10
T4<Hound77> [Edit] Who maintains it mostly ?11:10
r0kk3rzneochapay11:10
T4<neochapay> (Sticker, 512x512) http://3das7vpgt73yxclb6agz4sz2a2bt7bqqfjucjhhbb5jnndxcd4o4lfid.onion/nFf7100VoW.webp11:11
T4<Hound77> I think Jolla is spending time to push Zipper into the market. Then Sailfish.11:11
T4<Hound77> [Edit] I think Jolla is spending time to push Zipper into the market then Sailfish.11:11
T4<Hound77> @neochapay [<reply to media>], Are you ?11:12
T4<neochapay> @Hound77 [Are you ?], yeap11:12
T4<Hound77> Good to know.11:12
r0kk3rzzipper?11:13
T4<Hound77> Zippie11:13
T4<Hound77> [Edit] I think Jolla is spending time to push Zippie into the market then Sailfish.11:13
r0kk3rzlol no11:13
r0kk3rzseperate company doing unrelated things to sailfish11:14
T4<Hound77> I don't get it why don't Samsung push it's Tizen OS to the market.11:14
r0kk3rzthey do11:16
r0kk3rzon watches and tvs11:16
T4<neochapay> my samsung gear on tizen ^_^11:17
mal@Hound77 please don't use the edit feature11:25
malit's annoying to us on IRC11:25
T4<DibyaXP> @akaWolf [we have a lot of devices much older then a few …], Well we have 5.12 QT?11:42
T4<akaWolf> we have nothing with SFOS.11:43
T4<DibyaXP> Only Silica and you know silica is not good for digestion11:43
T4<akaWolf> we have nothing with mobile :)11:44
T4<akaWolf> only area is common — embedded linux11:44
T4<abranson> aren't you using mer packages?11:45
T4<akaWolf> yep11:45
T4<akaWolf> own mw.11:45
T4<abranson> so that's either sailfish's base packages, or your own mer fork?11:46
T4<DibyaXP> Isn't mer is outdated and Jolla implements only in their closed source stuff?11:46
T4<akaWolf> nope. all is own. it was just a reference that it's possible to make something difficult11:46
T4<akaWolf> nothing common with Mer/Silica/Jolla/so on11:46
T4<neochapay> @akaWolf Yeat another talk about nothing....uf you whant change somethink - just change....if you whant migtare to openembedend or fedora or on uhu-linux - just do it...plz stop talk about how all is bad11:47
T4<abranson> @DibyaXP [Isn't mer is outdated and Jolla implements onl …], no, all the packages on mer are maintained by Jolla as the base for sailfish. the closed source stuff sits on top11:47
T4<akaWolf> @neochapay [@akaWolf Yeat another talk about nothing....uf …], nope.11:47
T4<akaWolf> I dont stop11:47
T4<abranson> @akaWolf [nothing common with Mer/Silica/Jolla/so on], ah, so what is it?11:47
T4<abranson> and where is it?11:47
T4<akaWolf> we make STBs11:48
T4<abranson> if it's all forked and middleware replaced, then it's not nemo is it? what do you call it?11:48
T4<neochapay> yea we just talking and crying about how all is bad - create code is not own way yea 🤣🤣🤣11:48
T4<akaWolf> not nemo, nothing really related to mer/nemo11:49
T4<DibyaXP> @akaWolf  Mer is very stable and we need to upgrade it . … Just newer GCC , GLIBC, QT and Ffmpeg11:49
T4<akaWolf> I disagree11:49
T4<abranson> @akaWolf [not nemo, nothing really related to mer/nemo], cool, the more the merrier. i still hope nemo can exist as a foss head on the sfos base packages.11:50
T4<akaWolf> Mer is complicated and inconvenient11:50
T4<abranson> mobile linux communities are small. we need to share effort where we can11:50
T4<neochapay> @DibyaXP [@akaWolf  Mer is very stable and we need to up …], We start upgrade glibc. I work about gcc6 but @akaWolf don't ehant anythink :))))11:50
r0kk3rz@akaWolf do you use lipstick?11:51
T4<DibyaXP> @akaWolf  @neochapay  … Okay calm down guys .11:51
T4<abranson> gcc 4.9 upgrade is ongoing. should loosen things up for more ambitious upgrades later on.11:51
T4<abranson> and ffmpeg 4.1 just went in ;)11:52
T4<akaWolf> r0kk3rz, nope, it's not related to anything here — just separate project which uses common components like gcc, glibc and so on11:52
T4<DibyaXP> 4.9? Are you kidding me ? … Who uses 4.x series gcc today ?11:52
* lbt missed the conversation a few days ago about Mer11:52
T4<abranson> it's the end of the 4 series. getting off 4.8 after so long is difficult, and such a stepping stone is the best way to go about it.11:52
T4<DibyaXP> Good to know about ffmpeg  … Now what about hardware acceleration? Nothing I guess11:53
T4<DibyaXP> I am even more worried because mer is going full control under Jolla11:53
T4<abranson> i think hw accel in ffmpeg is possible, but not easy11:54
T4<akaWolf> de facto it already was by that control11:54
T4<abranson> @DibyaXP [I am even more worried because mer is going fu …], like others have said, nothing has changed there. mer has been maintained by jolla for years.11:54
T4<DibyaXP> @abranson [i think hw accel in ffmpeg is possible, but no …], Yes such things will be said when Jolla waste million years to write their own API and libraries and forget about their base11:55
T4<abranson> no, it's because the hw codecs are android ones that are only supported on android.11:56
T4<abranson> that's why droidmedia/gst-droid exists. something similar would have to be written for ffmpeg. that supports MediaCodec through jni on android, but ofc that's not useful outside of android.11:57
T4<akaWolf> btw, will be .ks files available?11:57
T4<akaWolf> which used by Jolla today11:57
T4<abranson> they already are, aren't they?11:58
T4<akaWolf> didn't saw11:58
T4<akaWolf> I mean it's nice to have ability to reproduce builds11:58
T4<akaWolf> locally11:58
T4<abranson> could be this? https://github.com/mer-hybris/droid-config-sony-nile/tree/master/kickstart11:59
T4<abranson> porters building images for sony devices use the same kickstarts as jolla I think11:59
r0kk3rz.ks isnt really a full build, its just the image packer script12:00
T4<DibyaXP> Bummer12:00
T4<abranson> i don't think there's anything else missing though?12:01
r0kk3rzyou can build the sony adaptations easy yeah12:02
r0kk3rzpack it with nemo packages, and away you go12:03
T4<DibyaXP> May be Nemo can fork their own mer12:06
r0kk3rzwhy?12:09
T4<abranson> it's more than enough work to maintain all those packages12:09
T4<samzn> @DibyaXP [May be Nemo can fork their own mer], Don't see a need, but I have thought of a rough strategy to moving to centos or suse if needed12:09
r0kk3rzi mean, neochapay basically did that already12:09
T4<samzn> It's a lot that needs to do still even with them maintaining those packages12:09
T4<samzn> Glibc patching for old kernels, hybris support, etc12:10
T4<samzn> More than an idea than anything but can be useful to not need to constantly engineer a backend, deal with security patches etc and just focus on what matters to the user12:11
T4<samzn> Jolla already does it very well with mer support though12:11
r0kk3rzyou can soon use mer middleware with whatever12:12
T4<neochapay> http://volla.online/blog/files/community-days.html12:55
T4<neochapay> (Sticker, 512x512) http://3das7vpgt73yxclb6agz4sz2a2bt7bqqfjucjhhbb5jnndxcd4o4lfid.onion/NDhGHABJgT.webp12:55
T4<samzn> @neochapay [http://volla.online/blog/files/community-days. …], is this parody?12:59
T4<neochapay> I don't know :)))12:59
T4<samzn> They seem to want to improve the project, but it really has a curious name13:00
T4<IGNNE> Hallo Welt Systeme UG13:01
T4<IGNNE> Translates to "Hello world systems"...13:01
T4<meierrom> @Hound77 [Then people should get into Nemo than Sailfish …], You need a ui as well. Glacier needs more work. :)13:20
T4<DibyaXP> (Sticker, 512x512) http://3das7vpgt73yxclb6agz4sz2a2bt7bqqfjucjhhbb5jnndxcd4o4lfid.onion/RuMfZZxiHt.webp13:22
T4<DibyaXP> Volla?13:22
T4<abranson> @meierrom I think glacier needs to be more available to people first. get more folks interested.13:43
T4<legacychimera247> @abranson [@meierrom I think glacier needs to be more ava …], And not break things since i couldn't try it due to broken packages and still it broke my home (even if a backup was taken) :p14:06
T4<abranson> @legacychimera247 [And not break things since i couldn't try it d …], generally that sort of thing yes :D14:25
T4<meierrom> @abranson [@meierrom I think glacier needs to be more ava …], That gui switcher we discussed some time back would be a good start :)14:26
T4<abranson> @meierrom [That gui switcher we discussed some time back …], hadn't heard of that. would that keep both installed and let you switch between them as you like?14:28
T4<legacychimera247> @abranson [hadn't heard of that. would that keep both ins …], That would be fantastic14:36
T4<meierrom> @abranson [hadn't heard of that. would that keep both ins …], That's the idea :)15:15
T4<DibyaXP> @meierrom [That gui switcher we discussed some time back …], Its a amazing idea16:25
T4<meierrom> @DibyaXP [Its a amazing idea], I think it was @akaWolf who came up with the idea. Anyway, it sounds easier than it is.16:41
T4<DibyaXP> Finding possibilities are much harder than implementing them ! … Atleast @akaWolf  solved the biggest part for us by giving a innovative idea16:43
T4<meierrom> @DibyaXP [Finding possibilities are much harder than imp …], I'm not sure I can agree :)))16:57
T4<DibyaXP> Well as a CPO , I know bit of inspiring words and I sometime feel as if I am a more of motivational speaker than a software engineer16:59
T4<DibyaXP> Its part of my work16:59
T4<meierrom> @DibyaXP [Well as a CPO , I know bit of inspiring words …], Ic. :))17:34

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