Sunday, 2019-05-19

T4Ponchale was added by: Ponchale03:23
T4<Ponchale> hi03:24
T4<deedend> Any news from the Volla community meeting?06:34
T4<deedend> Oh, damn it's too early, bloody timezones06:35
T4<Nokius> It will start again 1.506:38
T4<Nokius> [Edit] It will start again 1.5h06:45
T4Ponchale was added by: Ponchale08:28
T4<Ponchale> 1608:28
T4<Ponchale> Hi08:28
T4<Ponchale> I have always had a great interest in Nemo in hosting him and working in the08:29
T4<Ponchale> nice to meet my name is Alfonso08:29
T4<Ponchale> or Ponchale08:29
T4<Ponchale> A long time ago I met locusf, and good we would love to host, or host the project in the Astian project and so get it out and do exactly the same as UBports made that is to take the project forward.08:36
T4<Ponchale> What do the people who have seen the message say?08:37
T4<Ponchale> [Edit] We founded the Astian Foundation and the Astian Corporation and we want and are willing to work on the project08:39
T4<akaWolf> you are welcome08:42
T4<akaWolf> https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Nemo/Roadmap_new08:43
T4<akaWolf> you can pick any task08:44
T4<Ponchale> @akaWolf Thanks for your answer 😊 I mean to join the project with the foundation08:46
T4<akaWolf> I'm not sure what you mean. if you are willing to work at Nemo Mobile project, I give you a list of actual tasks. just pick any and solve it. what are you talking about?08:49
T4<Ponchale> @akaWolf [I'm not sure what you mean. if you are willing …], You remember what the browser qupzilla join in the KDE?08:50
T4<Ponchale> And after that union, did Falkon start calling?08:50
T4<akaWolf> yep. so?...08:51
T4<Ponchale> Does the same but without renaming the project, is to say that Nemo enter or join the foundation08:52
T4<akaWolf> why do you want this? and what kind of benefits it brings to Nemo?08:53
T4<Ponchale> Why? Because the world needs something different from the monopoly of Google and Apple privacy must return to the Internet08:54
T4<akaWolf> you can work at Nemo without «joining» to accomplish that goal08:55
T4<Ponchale> Already several foundations are wanting to do this like for example and Foundation that is developing Eelo08:55
T4<akaWolf> still don't see any logical reasons.08:55
T4<Ponchale> @akaWolf [still don't see any logical reasons.], A reason to unite us? Well A reason to unite us?08:56
T4<akaWolf> a reason to join any foundation08:57
T4<akaWolf> code is open. you are free to contribute08:58
T4<akaWolf> you are free to fork and so on09:00
T4<Ponchale> @akaWolf [a reason to join any foundation], 1 at market share level can be an opportunity for Nemo because Latin America needs a good system09:00
T4<Ponchale> 2 best team organization investment in the system resources, staff, dedicated developers09:01
T4<Ponchale> @akaWolf [you are free to fork and so on], Yes sure yes but we don't really help on the contrary we do damage by fragmentation09:01
T4<akaWolf> why do you want this? you can contribute now. staff, developers and so on.09:03
T4<Ponchale> As I said before I have always had in enormous interest in Nemo is different innovators and has the ability to change many things09:04
T4<Ponchale> 100% Open, and if we add that it has the ability to promote privacy without invasive services such as Google wow09:05
T4<akaWolf> but what will change joining? you can contribute all resources right there right now.09:05
T4<akaWolf> [Edit] but what will change joining? you can commit all resources right there right now.09:07
T4<Ponchale> Not really change anything that already is, the name will remain the same, the team structure the subproject everything will remain exactly the same09:08
T4<Ponchale> What will change is the organization of the project09:08
T4<Ponchale> That has an Internet domain for example nemo.com09:09
T4<Ponchale> Advertising09:09
T4<Ponchale> Events in Latin America to promote it to be known09:09
T4<Ponchale> Campaigns to develop our own device09:10
T4<Ponchale> Project organization work Teams09:10
T4<Ponchale> The philosophy of the project would be just as it would change is that and good the fact that now the foundation would be responsible09:11
T4<Ponchale> We can try... Together and take this great project forward09:18
r0kk3rzhi @Ponchale, you will want to talk to people like locusf faenil neochapay and eekkelund if you want to change the organisation of nemo09:19
T4<Ponchale> The truth stop talking to locusf when he started working with Jolla09:23
r0kk3rzlocusf no longer works with jolla, hasnt done for a long time09:23
T4<Ponchale> When you will be available?09:24
T4<Ponchale> @r0kk3rz [locusf no longer works with jolla, hasnt done …], In his Twitter profile I saw that I create a company related to the blockchain09:24
r0kk3rzbut anyway, nemo mobile project is quite informal09:25
T4<Ponchale> Mmmmm hopefully see my message and we can talk09:25
T4<Ponchale> @r0kk3rz [but anyway, nemo mobile project is quite infor …], This is also what we want to change it to a formal project09:26
T4<Ponchale> More organized and so begin to grow09:27
r0kk3rzsure, but doing organisation level change is hard without a formal leadership09:29
r0kk3rzright now there is some advertising and events going on, so theres nothing stopping you from doing that in your region09:31
T4Place (MISSING @USERNAME! telegram.org/faq#usernames-and-t-me) was added by: Place (MISSING @USERNAME! telegram.org/faq#usernames-and-t-me)09:32
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r0kk3rzand why nemo? and not like ubports or plasma touch09:32
T4<faenil> I am still a bit confused :)12:06
T4<neochapay> @r0kk3rz [and why nemo? and not like ubports or plasma t …], Because ubports sucks :)12:24
T4<Ponchale> @r0kk3rz [and why nemo? and not like ubports or plasma t …], Nemo is better14:33
T4<DibyaXP> <r0kk3rz> and why nemo? and not like ubports or plasma touch … Because Ubuntu touch sucks14:36
T4<K31j0> @neochapay [Because ubports sucks :)], This man is right14:36
T4<K31j0> They are just doing what canonical did, but all over again14:37
T4<K31j0> Also no proper package manager + ro rootfs14:37
T4<K31j0> Not my kind of OS14:37
T4<DibyaXP> @K31j0  … Ui of Ubuntu touch is horrible believe me14:38
T4<faenil> Ubports had plenty of man-hours invested by Canonical (I was working there at the time) to make it production ready...Nemo never had that, at UI level :(14:38
T4<K31j0> @DibyaXP [@K31j0  … Ui of Ubuntu touch is horrible believe …], Never tried it14:39
T4<faenil> [Edit] Ubuntu Touch/Phone (now ubports) had plenty of man-hours invested by Canonical (I was working there at the time) to make it production ready...Nemo never had that, at UI level :(14:39
T4<K31j0> I don't have a compatible device14:39
T4<Ponchale> I personally think that Nemo is superior14:39
T4<Ponchale> @DibyaXP [@K31j0  … Ui of Ubuntu touch is horrible believe …], True14:39
T4<DibyaXP> I used it on my one plus one , Ubuntu sucks , something from 187014:39
T4<K31j0> IMO Ubuntu was good up until 10.0414:40
T4<K31j0> Then they tried to be the Apple of Linux14:40
T4<K31j0> And failed miserably14:40
T4<DibyaXP> Personally using Kubuntu14:41
T4<DibyaXP> But I will switch to lubuntu with LXQt14:41
T4<K31j0> I use Gentoo with i3, because I have a big monitor and I can't find a distro that suits me14:42
T4<DibyaXP> I see14:42
T4<Ponchale> So what does the community think about my proposal?14:42
T4<Ponchale> locusf?14:42
T4<DibyaXP> Too be honest I am windows developer professionally so I use windows most of the time . … All windows after XP is horrible so I am still stuck on Visual Studio 2010 , barely boots up my laptop to windows 10 , most of the time kubuntu does my job14:44
T4<DibyaXP> @Ponchale [So what does the community think about my prop …], I think you guys shall contribute something to development then @neochapay  and other may agree14:45
T4<K31j0> Need to have a look at the roadmap, but I suck at having time to do things14:47
T4<Ponchale> @K31j0 [Need to have a look at the roadmap, but I suck …], If the same community says things like this it's sad to see such an interesting innovative and revolutionary project and read these words15:18
T4<Ponchale> @neochapay We can talk and determine how it would be best to proceed15:19
T4<Ponchale> Steps to follow who will enter the foundation15:19
T4<Ponchale> Commitments and responsibilities of the foundation15:20
T4<akaWolf> you can do the same without any move to foundation15:22
T4<akaWolf> you can make site, plan roadmap, commit to code15:23
T4<akaWolf> [Edit] you can do the same without any movement to foundation15:24
T4<Ponchale> @akaWolf [you can make site, plan roadmap, commit to cod …], It's not just the code, it's the project15:25
T4<Ponchale> I'll settle for the community to think about it15:25
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o faenil15:26
T4<akaWolf> yep. and it's open. choose a task, discuss with community and do that task. don't see any problems here.15:27
T4<Ponchale> So we can begin to think as a project as an organization and establish a North we do not want to make a fork because that would not help the project fragmentation is a fact that we should avoid15:29
T4<DibyaXP> No need , github  is their , so please provide commits for now15:30
T4<DibyaXP> Let the community decide15:33
T4<akaWolf> yeah. nothing stop you from make an contributions15:34
T4<akaWolf> [Edit] yeah. nothing stops you from making an contributions15:34
T4<akaWolf> no need to fork.15:34
T4<akaWolf> just commit into existing code base15:35
T4<DibyaXP> I  get sketchy when sometimes people wants to start a foundation or company for a opensource project , I worried because people shall remember what happened to cyanogen15:35
T4<DibyaXP> As long as nemo  foundation will be open and non profit I have no concern15:36
T4<akaWolf> [Edit] yeah. nothing stops you from making a contributions15:38
T4<Ponchale> @DibyaXP [I  get sketchy when sometimes people wants to …], It will not happen the same believe me and we are not some of us since 2016 working for free and open source software15:38
T4<DibyaXP> I believe you guys then15:38
T4<akaWolf> it's not about trust15:38
T4<DibyaXP> @akaWolf [it's not about trust], Its all about contribution15:39
T4<neochapay> @Ponchale [@neochapay We can talk and determine how it wo …], Tomorrow plz all questions tomorrow15:39
T4<akaWolf> you are free to make a project better.15:39
T4<akaWolf> no restrictions15:40
T4<akaWolf> from your words nothing will change after that movement15:40
T4<Ponchale> @akaWolf [you are free to make a project better.], I don't think you're understanding me.15:43
T4<Ponchale> Although from the beginning you're suggesting that I understand your position15:44
T4<Ponchale> But we are not going to contribute to project fragmentation from continuing to grow. Do15:44
T4<Ponchale> @DibyaXP [As long as nemo  foundation will be open and n …], Does the Nemo Foundation exist?15:58
T4<DibyaXP> Nope15:58
T4<Ponchale> @DibyaXP [Nope], AAAAA ok OK, so I think we have an opportunity not only to work together but to organize the project15:59
T4<Ponchale> Here at Astian we are a foundation and a corporation the corporation has the mission to be part financial and manage all the finances of the foundation something like we do Mozilla16:00
T4<Ponchale> who is the owner of http://www.nemomobile.org/16:44
T4<Ponchale> ?16:44
T4<Ponchale> https://www.astian.org/es/2019/05/19/astian-se-une-mer-y-nemo-mobile/19:25
T4<akaWolf> still not clear for me why you can't contribute without that bureaucracy19:28
T4<akaWolf> you can request access to nemo mobile site or make your own19:28
T4<neochapay> @akaWolf [still not clear for me why you can't contribut …], You can't contribute because you always just rubling19:29
T4<neochapay> @akaWolf [still not clear for me why you can't contribut …], [Edit] You can't contribute because you always just rumbling19:30
T4<akaWolf> I'm about Alfonso thoughts19:30
T4<Ponchale> @akaWolf [you can request access to nemo mobile site or …], 🤦‍♂️ I have already said several times that we are not interested in realizing a fork of the project19:30
T4<akaWolf> it will not be a fork. just commit to existing code base.19:30
T4<Ponchale> @neochapay [You can't contribute because you always just r …], I did not understand, what do you mean?19:31
T4<akaWolf> @Ponchale [I did not understand, what do you mean?], it's our internal, nvm19:31
T4<neochapay> @Ponchale [I did not understand, what do you mean?], They guy just talking about nothing always19:32
T4<Ponchale> @neochapay [They guy just talking about nothing always], Who? I'm sorry I got lost in the conversation19:33
T4<akaWolf> @Ponchale [Who? I'm sorry I got lost in the conversation], because it's not related to conversations19:33
T4<akaWolf> @Ponchale [Who? I'm sorry I got lost in the conversation], [Edit] because it's not related to conversation19:34
T4<neochapay> @akaWolf always talking but newer make any code19:34
T4<neochapay> It just Communist19:34
T4<neochapay> Like Lev Trotsky19:35
T4<akaWolf> @neochapay do only code without any thoughts in common.19:35
T4<Ponchale> aaaaa ok ok Understand19:35
T4<neochapay> Revolution for Revolution19:35
T4<akaWolf> stop that shit, man =)19:35
T4<neochapay> I don't like you way19:36
T4<neochapay> Sorry19:36
T4<akaWolf> no need to write that each time at the channel19:36
T4<akaWolf> me and all here are always well aware about your opinion19:37
T4<akaWolf> hope you understand that19:37
T4<akaWolf> [Edit] me and all here are already well aware about your opinion19:37
T4<neochapay> I just want make code just for fun like Linus19:37
T4<akaWolf> the world is a little bit more complex then just do something for fun19:38
T4<Ponchale> @neochapay I understand what is Sunday here, but I'll be up late to talk with you and the community, I saw that Necunos also has an interest in Nemo he wants to exploit commercially but Astian wants Nemo to be a more organized and growing project, so I'll be there to talk19:38
T4<neochapay> I not understand about what you talking19:39
T4<akaWolf> @neochapay [I just want make code just for fun like Linus], I suggest you to read Animal farm and take a look at Boxer character19:41
T4<neochapay> Sorry guys today i go to sleeping. And tomorrow i try fix some things19:41
T4<Ponchale> @neochapay [I not understand about what you talking], for a few hours I exposed to the community the possibility of joining the Nemo to join Astian19:42
T4<samzn> lots of new messages19:42
T4<akaWolf> writing code is definitely required, but it will not solve underlying problems.19:42
T4<samzn> is there drama going on19:42
T4<Ponchale> so it is difficult to establish an assertive communication to reach something or make a decision19:44
T4<neochapay> @Ponchale [for a few hours I exposed to the community the …], Wtf is Astian?19:45
T4<Ponchale> [Edit] so it is difficult to establish an assertive communication to reach something or make a decision and it's frustrating up to a point19:46
T4<Ponchale> @neochapay [Wtf is Astian?], https://www.astian.org/es/2019/05/19/astian-se-une-mer-y-nemo-mobile/19:46
T4<Ponchale> @neochapay [Wtf is Astian?], Non-profit foundation dedicated to the development of software and free technologies19:47
T4<neochapay> @Ponchale [https://www.astian.org/es/2019/05/19/astian-se …], Suite not available in Russia :)))19:47
T4<Ponchale> Suite¡?19:49
T4<akaWolf> site19:50
T4<neochapay> Site19:50
T4<Ponchale> aaaaaaa19:50
T4<Ponchale> the proposal is for Nemo to join to Astian and thus we can better organize the project to allocate resources, marketing advertising alliances with Latin manufacturers etc etc19:51
T4<Ponchale> @neochapay basically that is the proposal19:51
T4<akaWolf> in my vision you can do the same without joining19:52
T4<neochapay> @Ponchale [@neochapay basically that is the proposal], Ok you will make code :)19:53
T4<akaWolf> @neochapay [Ok you will make code :)], they wanna some kind of movement19:53
T4<neochapay> @akaWolf [they wanna some kind of movement], Good luck :)19:54
T4<Ponchale> @neochapay [Ok you will make code :)], the code, alliances for companies to use Nemo, dedicate full time dedicated developers etc19:54
T4<akaWolf> the question is - why do you need that join?19:55
T4<neochapay> Good night everybody19:55
T4<akaWolf> good night19:55
T4<eekkelund> Me, as community member, I don't see any benefit joining Astian Foundation, like @locusf didn't see in 2016. We have no information about this Astian Foundation or Astian Corporation, who is working there, who is financing it, why obsession with Nemo Mobile, how would we as community benefit. I only can see Astian Corporation or you Alf19:55
T4onso benefiting from this. What could be intresting and maybe beneficial for Nemo Mobile community would be to create own Foundation, maybe German nonprofit. e.V. like Kde, UBports or Maemo Community. That foundation could possibly have collaboration wirh Astian Foundation, depending what its possible board decides. … And what comes to bad Necunos19:55
T4guys I happen to know that, in addition of donating their device for Nemo development, their employee is in progress of releasing updates to Nemo Mobile, actual code. … Sorry I have to turn my phone off as I am in plane coming from Nemo/UBports hackathon.19:55
T4<Ponchale> @akaWolf [in my vision you can do the same without joini …], Imagine if it is difficult to reach a decision as it would be something bigger?19:56
T4<Ponchale> @eekkelund [Me, as community member, I don't see any benef …], Well, I appreciate your honesty and at least open up the possibility of collaborating in the future if a foundation or organization of your own was created19:58
T4<akaWolf> I agree with the point of @eekkelund … not sure why even we might have a need some foundation at that stage. … the process of making the decisions is quite simple for now - just do something, it will be already good19:59
T4<Ponchale> I already understood the point of the community, they are not interested ok ok I have been rejected once again but calm nothing happens20:00
T4<samzn> Huehuei just got kicked out Google Play Services support20:00
T4<samzn> Maybe they will license nemo 🙂20:00
T4<akaWolf> @Ponchale [I already understood the point of the communit …], you are free to make a project better without any foundation. really.20:01
T4<akaWolf> you can have a dedicated developers, devices and so on right now20:02
T4<samzn> Nemo license is pretty liberal20:02
T4<akaWolf> yep20:02
T4<Ponchale> possibly in the past the same thing happened with Debian and Ubuntu nobody knew that it was Canonical and still decided to create something based on Debian, the sad thing is that sometimes the free software community is the one that puts the most obstacles20:04
T4<Ponchale> but I appreciate your words and I appreciate the fact that you read me :-)20:04
T4<samzn> classical paradigms of FOSS development are long gone20:04
T4<samzn> as in obstacles20:05
T4<GranPC> @samzn [Maybe they will license nemo 🙂], no need20:05
T4<GranPC> they've been working on their own os for a long time20:05
T4<samzn> ya i know20:05
T4<samzn> just putting some banter to the discussion20:05
T4<GranPC> they're fucked either way20:05
T4<GranPC> the average user wants a whatsapp and instagram device that also happens to place phone calls and run other software20:05
T4<samzn> they can still run whichever chinese branch of AOSP they are already doing in china20:06
T4<GranPC> yeah, with their own app store20:06
T4<GranPC> which would not have any facebook software in it, which means no whatsapp, which means no sale20:06
T4<GranPC> (facebook is also an american company and as such they cannot deal with huawei)20:07
T4<samzn> remember when zuck wanted to sell his baby to Xi Jinping in exchange to access to the chinese market lmao20:07
T4<GranPC> what20:07
T4<GranPC> oh boy20:07
T4<samzn> https://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/china-s-president-xi-jinping-turns-down-mark-zuckerberg-s-request-to-name-his-unborn-child-at-white-a6679156.html20:08
T4<eekkelund> @Ponchale [Well, I appreciate your honesty and at least o …], But I am just member of the community, these were my own thoughts. Of course more organized project could be beneficial but joining to other foundation / corporation is questionable in my opinion. … Its nice to see that Nemo Mobile has intrest.20:48
T4<eekkelund> @GranPC [they've been working on their own os for a lon …], Maybe the HiOS with tsaikka-core o.O20:49
T4<Ponchale> @eekkelund [But I am just member of the community, these w …], The truth is that would enter the foundation the Corporation is just the financial part of the foundation20:49
T4<Ponchale> We apply the same model that has Mozilla plus nothing but everything will always be free and open20:50
T4<samzn> making Nemo for-profit would certainly be interesting to supercharge it23:48

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