Monday, 2012-02-13

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Stskeepsmorn Sage_07:13
Sage_the next target isn't available yet?07:17
Stskeepswe got a bit delayed but at least we have OBS packages now07:17
Stskeepswe first sanity test it on the 'new' cobs, then main cobs07:17
Sage_ok, just asking because wandering what should I start next in order of priority07:17
Stskeepsgot your new libxi for current core?07:18
Stskeepswe need to see if it breaks nemo07:18
Sage_uploaded intltool update to review btw. Packaged during weekend but didn't have the sshkey there so didn't upload07:18
Sage_I can test the libXi now07:19
Sage_and do you mean the version 1.4.x that is in mer or the 1.5.0 that I have in review?07:19
Stskeepsboth, ideally07:19
Stskeepsi need to see if they regress things07:19
Sage_I have 1.5.0 available for current core at least07:20
ildarHi, guys. Sorry to interrupt you. I've tried x86 image in qemu. It booted, but not UX. I think that's because some Xorg drivers weren't built. Is it possible to fix?07:21
ildarI think qemu image is a good demo for the work you do.07:21
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Stskeepsildar: want to try out an image with llvmpipe?07:21
Sage_Stskeeps: the 1.4.x that is in mer has regression at least I tested that in last release it was the gestures that went bad07:21
Stskeepsold image07:21
StskeepsSage_: yes, does it disappear with 1.5.0?07:21
Sage_testing now07:22
Stskeepsildar: old version, bu try
ildarStskeeps: want to try any working image with UX on qemu07:22
Stskeepsuse qemu-kvm ideally07:22
ildarthanx. Do you know the reason UX not working in KVM?07:23
Stskeepsildar: long story short because the graphics drivers aren't software rendering07:23
ildarwell, do you mean UX needs GL accel?07:24
Stskeepsand with llvmpipe this is fast software rendering07:24
ildarI guess kvm does 2d well07:24
Stskeepsyeah, probably07:24
ildardoes it work on patched qemu (qemu+3d) ?07:25
Stskeepsi haven't experimented with that07:25
Stskeepsit would need to support opengl es API07:25
Stskeepsif you have the ability, you can try that out07:25
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Sage_Stskeeps: 1.5.0 that is in review doesn't have regressions at least07:28
Sage_at least the 100% cpu usage is gone that was with 1.4.x version07:28
Stskeepsso that'll probably be an expected regression in first core07:29
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Sage_Stskeeps: yes, as it was there last time and it was rollback07:32
ildarStskeeps: thanx a lot. I'll try it out. I guess this kind of info is worth having on WIKI. I'll manage to put it there when have something working on my PC07:33
Stskeepsbug triage was when today? 5 minutes?07:54
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Stskeepsveskuh_n9_: should we start bug triage or wait until you're at your desk?08:01
veskuh_n9_two mins08:02
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ildarStskeeps: Success here. one last question: how do I determine llvmpipe images?08:42
Stskeepsildar: you don't, this was an experimental image i made08:42
Stskeepsi hope to move mer to default working on llvmpipe08:43
Stskeepsdoes it work?08:43
ildarworks great08:43
ildartruly good demo of what the Nemo is for newcomres08:44
Stskeepshow much performance do you see?08:45
ildarwell, not bad at least08:46
Stskeepscat /proc/cpuinfo on your pc?08:46
Stskeepsif you enable SMP08:47
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ildardid it already08:48
ildar-smp 2 -m 1024M :)08:48
Stskeepsbecause it can multithread to go faster08:48
Stskeepsfor rendering08:48
ildarbut 1024M sounds too much :)08:48
ildarI guess 512 should be enough08:49
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ildarI'll notify you when the page will be ready08:59
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Siceloquick question: does stuff/hardware that worked under Meego also work under nemo mobile for N900?09:25
Stskeepsdefine stuff/hardware09:25
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Stskeepsmorn slaine09:25
slainehow'd the SDK weekend go ?09:25
Sicelowell, i'm more interested in gprs/3g09:25
StskeepsSicelo: there's a bug in gprs right now, i think09:26
Stskeepsslaine: quite well, ask lbt in #mer :)09:26
Sicelook. thanks for info Stskeeps09:26
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slaineoops, thought I was in #mer09:27
Sicelokernel modules and firmware are same as on MeeGo? or Nokia didn't permit use of some of them?09:27
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StskeepsSicelo: if it was in meego it's in nemo09:29
StskeepsSicelo: it was pushed to meego with redistributable permission09:29
veskuhSicelo: There was regression in gprs because of newer version of connman, next version of connman should fix it.09:31
StskeepsSage_: so no visible regression in gestures with libxi 1.5.0?09:31
veskuhSicelo: this is the bug about grps:
Sage_Stskeeps: I can't see any at least09:33
Sage_Stskeeps: but not sure if something changes when it causes rebuild09:33
Stskeepswe'll have to see09:33
Sage_but at least the 1.4.3 with rebuilds had regressions09:33
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Sicelothanks :)09:44
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* Stskeeps heads out for lunch09:54
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* Stskeeps returns10:54
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Sage_is twimgo working for you guys?11:30
Sage_I'm getting: ERROR: Twitter API returned 0 0 on URL
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Sage_hmmp... our qt-components is version 1.0gitX and latest is 1.3gitX11:36
dcthangSage_:  Does this ring a bell for u?
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Sage_dcthang: not much, I didn't work on that but I recall that there were issues :/11:45
dcthangI guess it's about codec issues11:46
StskeepsSage_: sounds like a task bug11:46
ildarStskeeps: I want to refer you in WIKI. How do I call you there?11:47
Stskeepsjust say stskeeps11:48
* Sage_ ponders if we should go along with the harmattan upstream (currently pr1.3) or stick with older pr1.2 branch in nemo11:50
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Sage_do we have any reason not to go along with the latest MTF upstream? There is already tags for harmattan pr1.3 related stuff.11:52
veskuhI guess not. Only thing would be if it would break something, but we do not know before we try.11:55
Sage_veskuh: does twimgo work for you?11:56
veskuhI tested it with latest release and yes it did work. I'll re-try soon. Is your date&time correct?11:57
Sage_no date and time is not correct11:58
Sage_that causes problems?11:58
veskuhProbably SSL is not working if date&time is incorrect11:58
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veskuhand thus twimgo login would fail11:58
veskuhYep, twimgo is still working for me12:01
Sage_ok, after date it works fine12:01
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ildarPlz check some notes of mine.12:07
Stskeepswe can probably fix those up a bit12:08
Stskeepsbut thanks for the QEMU notes12:08
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ildarone more thing...12:08
ildarwhat do you think of making Cordia preview image of the kind?12:09
ildaror should I go ask someone else?12:09
Stskeepsa bit outside my area, i take on llvmpipe during this week12:09
Sage_ <- fix for NEMO#9812:10
veskuhSage_:  that did not take long :)12:10
Sage_veskuh: it should have? :)12:10
veskuhSage_: Its nice when easy fix really is easy fix :)12:11
Sage_if someone could test that on something else than N900 that would be nice12:11
veskuhSage_: yep, i'll test on n95012:11
StskeepsSage_: on thursday, should we schedule some time to create mesa package for intel adaptations, as mer switches to an llvmpipe based one?12:11
Stskeepsso we need to have those able to coexist/replace eachother12:12
Sage_Stskeeps: Thursday, any reason for the date?12:12
StskeepsSage_: that's when i can see i reasonably have a mesa llvmpipe package ready for integration12:12
Stskeepsand verification12:12
Stskeepscan be friday too, for that matter12:13
Stskeepsi just don't want to break accel on x86 :(12:13
Stskeepser, :)12:13
damnshockhey guys, do you know if there's any email client in nemomobile/mer yet?12:14
* Sage_ ponders why this monday seems to productive day.12:15
the-bossphaeron lbt sage stskeeps SR#4342 waiting for review at
veskuhdamnshock: No there isnt. Would be really nice to get one.12:15
veskuhother thing that many have asked is filemanager12:15
damnshockI've seen some trojita developement again, at least commitwise12:16
damnshockwell, to me the email app is a must have12:17
damnshockothwerise I would probably be using nemomobile full time :D12:17
w00tveskuh: i wonder if any of the n9 filemanager apps are oss12:22
veskuhw00t: yep, I guess there are quite many. one of them must be open source.12:23
w00t is the one I use12:24
Sage_w00t: I'm using the same one12:25
Sage_closed source though :/12:25
w00thmm.. i could always write to the guy :P12:26
Sage_someone asked it in tmo already and he said no12:27
w00the seems to have vanished, too12:28
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* faenil is reading the logs to keep up to date with bug triaging12:41
timophI tried some open file managers a while ago but all of them would've needed a lot of work12:44
timophthings might have changed though12:44
timophdevelopment seems to have stopped12:47
matrixxwe could ask tomma if he's still working on it12:49
timoph"make it work - we know where you live"12:50
matrixxtimoph: what are the biggest issues left?12:50
timophcan't remember12:50
timophtry it12:50
matrixxI'll try it out in the evening12:51
timophdunno if it's the latest version12:51
matrixxI have mer currently on exo only :/12:51
timophit's build for x86 in there too :)12:52
timophno escape from it12:52
timophactually I have nemo on my ideapad so I can try it as well after I get home12:53
matrixxgreat :)12:53
matrixxlast time I checked, the screen didn't stay on in exo so hard to test, but I need to try newer image anyway12:54
timophI think that's fixed now12:55
matrixxand next saturday jukkaeklund is going to show me how to make it dualboot with harmattan on N95012:55
Stskeepsit works a lot better now12:55
Stskeepsit did actually stay on12:55
Stskeepsthe system just crashed12:55
faenilmatrixx: there's a guide for N950 dualbooting, I'm about to do that this afternoon, if you're on ;)12:57
veskuhSage_:  both orientations work fine on N950.12:57
matrixxfaenil: are you running on 1.2?12:58
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matrixxI need to flash 1.2 first, haven't had time to do it yet13:00
Sage_veskuh: good13:01
the-bossphaeron lbt sage stskeeps SR#4342 Accepted promotion request13:04
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faenilmatrixx: sorry I did not read your message...yes I'm on 1.213:15
matrixxfaenil: ok, I'll update mine to 1.2 too first, then I can take a look at the dualboot with you13:15
matrixxfaenil: did you do it with OCF?13:15
matrixxon linux I guess?13:16
faenilyup, 64bit13:16
faenilUbuntu 12.04 alpha213:16
matrixxI have older and 32-bit, but let's see13:16
faenilI think I'll be ready in 3 hours, need to work on the thesis and talk to the professor in a while :)13:16
faenilyou should not encounter any problem ;)13:16
matrixxfaenil: ok, I think I'm done with my work and flashing in three ours, ping me when you're ready13:17
faenilperfect ;)13:17
matrixxdone deal :)13:17
faenilabout yaml instead, is there anyone who can teach me how to write such a file or link me to a doc or something? :) or just tell me "look at it and there's no need for any guide" :)13:19
faenila fuck off is appreciated too XD13:20
veskuhfaenil: At least I have copied templete from existing apps13:20
faenilmm, ok :)13:20
veskuhFor example this one is for heliumreborn, its qml app built in qt sdk originally, thus I define same flags as Qt SDK would define for harmattan.13:22
veskuhafter that run specifify to generate .spec13:22
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faeniland where are those defined in qt sdk files?13:24
faenilthe makefile doesn't have them13:24
veskuhWell, the build config defines them automatically it was some platform specification file13:25
veskuhYou only need those if you use them13:25
veskuhFor helium it uses them since the application stub that qtsdk generates uses them for booster and orientation13:25
faenilyeah I started from qt quick app for harmattan13:26
veskuhif your app has that qmlapplicationviewer folder and still uses it, then you will probably need the same flags as Helium does.13:27
veskuhMore minimal yaml would be for example flickr's one:
faenilbut still, how can I check if I'm including all the needed dependencies?13:28
veskuhWell, I ended up in trial & error.13:29
faeniloh ok ;)13:29
faenilare you using qmlappviewer? because you're not using DEFINE+= HARMATTAN_BOOSTER13:30
veskuhBuild files define that13:30
veskuhI think based on MEEGO_EDITION they do it13:31
veskuhline 22 of qmlapplicationviewer.pri does it13:31
faenilyeah I thought you got those defines from that pri13:32
faenilwell, I'll just go for trial and error :)13:32
* veskuh going to listen Elop13:40
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faenilwait where where :D live? :D13:41
Stskeepsprobably an all hands13:41
faenilI see...13:42
Stskeepsit happens often in companies13:43
faenilI love the speeches that man gives :D13:45
* Sage_ ponders if xruxa is still active and wants to do more theming for us.13:47
Sage_Currently updating our MTF MW packages and saw the theme thingy :/13:47
Stskeepstheme thingy?13:48
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Sage_Stskeeps: the "open source" theme that isn't opensource :)13:49
Stskeepsah, yes13:49
Stskeepsthe ND thing13:49
Sage_I have rest of the stuff updated already except theme part for MW13:50
Sage_also noted that our default theme is quite old13:51
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Sage_veskuh_n9__: stress test with n9? :)13:53
veskuh_n9__the network is under heavy load13:53
veskuh_n9__all of nokia tre is same room13:54
Stskeepsthat has got to be a lot of radiation13:54
veskuh_n9__not healthy amount :)13:54
* Sage_ ponders if we should start maintaining two base themes, one that is the LGPL one and one that is the CC BY-ND one13:54
StskeepsSage_: i have doubts we can even package it with ND13:55
Sage_well that could be :P13:55
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Sage_lol, the version to which I updated last time wasn't the latest :P13:56
Sage_updated to 0.24.13 and latest was 0.24.31 :P13:56
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Sage_someone just had tagged the older release last :P13:57
* Sage_ feels stupid13:57
Sage_oh, it is monday riiiiight. now I can feel it :)14:05
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faenilI was thinking about making slides for my thesis with qml14:22
faenilis that sane? :D14:22
faenilis there any template, have you ever used it?14:22
Stskeepsno, spend time on the content and your talk14:22
faenilouch :D that was for the wow effect :D14:23
Stskeepswow with words and content, not fancy graphics14:23
faenil4/5 of the professors who will be there won't even understand of what I'm talking about :P14:24
faenilok then, any advice for presentation systems other than powerpoint? :)14:25
Stskeepsdon't use OOo14:26
faenilwhat's OOo XD14:26
faeniloh ok :D14:26
faenilcurrent plan is to make them with Beamer14:26
Sage_btw, the shutdown time of N900 is quite bad14:28
Sage_not sure if related to update systemd or something else14:28
Sage_veskuh_n9__: btw, the new theme doesn't remove the bar from settings at least14:31
w00tStskeeps: there is actually a pre-prepared QML presentation system14:31
Stskeepsw00t: yes, i know14:32
Sage_veskuh_n9__: nm. wrong theme installed :/14:32
Stskeepsw00t: and i'm fairly sure if you have time to do qml presentations, you should have spent more time prepping your talk14:32
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w00tQML Everywhere™14:33
Sage_pah, forgot to push update to obs :P14:33
faenilIt's a first level thesis, 3 CFU, something little, it's the porting of an app from iOS Obj-C to Android using Qt :)14:35
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* anYc creates his slides with latex14:37
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faenilanYc: Beamer?14:42
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Sage_the new theme version seems to work nicely and at least I haven't noted any missing graphics14:52
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matrixxnemo wiki says w34 and 39 will work with moslo, but shouldn't 2012.02 work too?16:28
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matrixxnice :)16:31
Stskeepsvgrade: sw rendering?16:31
vgradeStskeeps, yea, not a slide show though16:32
vgradewhat can we do with the amlogic gles libs16:33
Stskeepsi have a couple of ideas but some other day :)16:33
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djszapiHi! Do you plan to add kdelibs to nemomobile for default availability ?17:52
Stskeeps , right hand side implies 'not really'17:54
Stskeepsyou can always add the PA repos if you want though17:54
anYcmaybe it's available for the plasma UI17:54
djszapikdelibs and plasma ui are different things17:55
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anYcoh okay17:57
Stskeepsanyway, we don't have kdelibs nor do we have gtk, it's already bad enough we have MTF :)17:57
djszapiPA is good as far as apps4meego can get the dependencies from there.17:57
djszapiif not, I would suggest adding it.17:57
djszapiotherwise it makes our life hard (kde app developers).17:57
vgradedjszapi, kdelibs is built against Mer in the Trunk Testing Project of Plasma Active not the Devel Project anymore,
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djszapivgrade: I am not speaking about plasma. I would just like to have kdelibs in a repository where apps4meego can be happy with it.18:03
djszapiotherwise we are not in any better situation than on Harmattan.18:04
NsaneCoffewhat size sd card do you recommend for installing nemo on a N90018:04
vgradedjszapi, I'm not following, repo contains kdelibs package18:06
djszapivgrade: can apps4meego grab dependencies for my app from that repository ?18:07
djszapimy question is not that whether it is available somewhere.18:07
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vgradedjszapi, ah ok, I don't know how apps4meego works but I would hope it would just be a case of adding the repo18:12
djszapithat is not how currently works afaik.18:14
djszapia.k.a. it does not handle dependencies from repositories apart from the builtin platform packages.18:14
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vgradedjszapi, ping X-Fade on #mer about capabilities18:27
matrixxany pointers, my dualboot installation got into state where it doesn't boot to harmattan anymore?18:29
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matrixxboots fine to nemo, but when I choose harmattan, it will show first nokia log, but after a minute goes to black screen18:29
matrixx*nokia logo18:29
djszapivgrade: sorry, but nemo is no go for me if kdelibs is rejected18:30
djszapiit is just a library after all.18:30
faenilmarquiz, are you online? I'm trying your dualbooting but it's not working here18:34
Sage_NsaneCoffe: 4G+18:35
Sage_djszapi: kdelibs just isn't default part of nemo, there is nothing that prevents it to be included18:37
djszapithis is the answer I somewhat hoped in the beginning, thanks :)18:37
Sage_djszapi: e.g. ubuntu doesn't ship gnome, kde, xfce, etc. by default but those all are there if needed. We just don't have kdelibs in our repos as we don't have the manpower to maintain those18:37
djszapiif you mean that it is possible to add.18:38
djszapibut some is already maintaining apparently (see link above).18:38
Sage_djszapi: if you are willing to start maintaining those I don't see why now, however those will not be part of the default repos but we can easily add new repo for kdelibs related stuff.18:38
Sage_djszapi: that is the plasma active team I think18:38
djszapiSage_: I do not mind which official repo it ends up :)18:38
Sage_djszapi: :nod: the point mainly is that we don't want to bloat the default repos and images to include kdelibs as that would make our images much larger. But the availability of those is something we could arrange.18:40
djszapiplease do not take it offense, but you will lose a lot of manpower from the kde community, if the team keeps objecting to that.18:41
djszapiand kde community will also be disappointed about an "open" project.18:42
NsaneCoffematrixx, guess you'll have to reflash18:42
Stskeepsdjszapi: you're being rude, we're saying: if you want to maintain it, sure, but it doesn't get preinstalled on an image, the repository which it is in may be preinstalled18:42
Stskeepswe're not going to maintain it ourselves, but you're more than welcome to do it18:43
matrixxNsaneCoffe: ok, so I have to redo the whole shannanigan? ie. remove dualbooter, flash harmattan 1.2 and start all over again?18:44
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Stskeepsfact is, we are low on disk space and memory, we're not going to install anything for preinstall that isn't absolutely needed18:44
djszapiyes, but that is not what I said.18:45
Stskeepsand if you go look at the technical details of kdelibs dependendancies, it's a mess, so it wouldn't even go in even if we did need it for one small component18:45
anYchm, as far as I understand, it's sufficient for djszapi, if kdelibs is $somehow installable via apps4meego18:45
djszapiI would like to simplify the kde app developers' life for apps4meego if they happen to contribute to nemo.18:46
anYcso the question is, if the plasma-repo can be included in apps4meego18:46
Stskeepsdjszapi: good, roll up your sleves and maintain kdelibs for nemo then18:46
djszapianYc: we do not need a plasma repository.18:46
djszapianYc: we just need kdelibs.18:46
djszapiwe do not wanna port plasma on top of nemo ;)18:46
djszapiStskeeps: so can apps4meego work with this "extra" repository ?18:47
Sage_djszapi: the thing why people say that should include plasma active repository is that they _are_ maintaining kdelibs atm.18:47
anYcyes, but apparently the plasma people maintain it for mer (if I understood correctly)18:47
Stskeepsdjszapi: ask the apps4meego people about that, we already have several repositories things build against18:47
djszapiSage_: afaiu they have a broken package for madde for instance.18:48
vgradeanYc, not they maintain it for themselves Mer does not include UI layer18:48
djszapiit might be that they do not use madde at all.18:48
Sage_djszapi: it is matter of configuratio the apps4meego started to work for nemo just over a week ago so don't expect it to be ready for everyone at the  start.18:49
djszapivgrade: also, we can probably truncate many things what is not the case for plasma.18:49
djszapisorry, wanted to write to Sage_18:49
djszapiSage_: well, it was presented more than a week ago at FOSDEM it had been working :P18:50
Sage_djszapi: we got it working 10mins before the presentation ;)18:50
djszapinice :)18:51
anYctiming is everything ^^18:51
djszapiSage_: is nemo stable for daily usage as a phone os ?18:53
Sage_djszapi: but yes, we can't solve this now. We need to improve apps4meego (not sure how much and what it needs) and get repository with kdelibs (with someone maintaining it)18:53
djszapiI would love to help with that for nemo, but unfortunately rpm is the only packaging system out of the biggest I have no experience with :/18:54
Sage_djszapi: depends on usage. It can be used as daily devide but it has some things missing that you probably will miss.18:54
Sage_djszapi: rpm as packaging is very easy to learn compared to .deb IMO18:55
djszapitoo much effort in qt5 and kde frameworks to spare any time for learning :/18:56
djszapiand even if I could learn, I should study the obs shortcomings :P18:59
djszapiat least that was much longer time for Harmattan than learning debian packaging.18:59
djszapiSage_: you write on your slide /mostly/ compatible with Harmattan applications. Could you please ellaborate on this, what is not compatible ?19:08
Sage_djszapi: there are some things that we don't have in nemo as those are proprietary and thus not available.19:14
djszapiaye makes sense.19:14
Sage_the MTF and qt-components stuff is there and thus most apps that work on harmattan work also on nemo19:15
Sage_at least after recompile.19:15
Sage_we don't have e.g. NFC stuff so those apps might not work.19:15
Sage_we don't have exact list of those things that nemo is missing compared to harmattan so can't say exactly what are missing.19:17
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djszapiSage_: it would not be too much effort then to get kde apps running on nemo.19:22
djszapiwould also be good for us kde volunteers, and also for the nemo community19:23
Sage_djszapi: you can already run kdeapps on nemo just compile the app against the plasmaactive repo and run it :)19:24
Sage_the fact that apps4meego isn't ready is separate thing19:25
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djszapiSage_: the plasma package would be broken for madde19:25
djszapinot sure that matters on nemo.19:25
matrixxI tried just CuteExplorer, otherwise probably good in featurewise but would need a UI rewrite19:26
matrixxthere's qt widget ui, way too small for my fingers19:26
djszapimatrixx: :D19:26
djszapiSage_ madde needs special care for kdelibs19:27
djszapibut I guess it does not matter for nemo. I guess you use chroot images like in meego times ?19:27
Sage_djszapi: madde as in "Meego Application developement and Debug Environment"?19:27
djszapisomething like that, what QtCreator also uses in the background on Harmattan.19:28
Sage_well I don't know about that much as I'm not using it.19:29
djszapiso the question is then how to proceed with accepting that package for apps4meego.19:30
djszapiso that we do not need to put the dynamic libraries and all the data files into our packages app-wise.19:30
Sage_djszapi: app4meego doesn't require that19:30
Sage_you don't need to ship libs with your app for nemo in app4meego19:31
djszapiSage_: so how to grab the library in apps4meego from the plasma repository ?19:31
djszapiis it possible ?19:31
djszapibecause that is the next task to solve then :) I will ask X-Fade.19:31
Sage_well before you can grab taht from apps4meego there is lots of other things to do first19:32
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djszapiSage_: what exactly ?20:01
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Sage_djszapi: a) who maintains kdelibs b) create repo for it from which to import stuff20:18
djszapia) is not a question, I can do that.20:18
djszapib) I was suggesting that as a step, yes.20:18
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Sage_djszapi: well you just said that you don't have time to learn rpm packaging a while ago :)20:28
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matrixxrpm's are easy when done a few years with debian ;)20:29
djszapiSage_: yes, but you also said, it works.20:29
djszapiand it had maintainers already.20:29
djszapiso imo, I would not even need to maintain it in fact.20:29
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Stskeepsthey check it works on top of their stack, not on top of mer+nemo middleware :P20:31
djszapiyes, testing is needed. :)20:32
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