Thursday, 2013-05-16

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Sfiet_Konstantinvgrade: o/00:34
Sfiet_Konstantinvgrade: \o/ i mean00:34
Sfiet_Konstantinvgrade: X11, wayland ?00:34
Sfiet_Konstantineglfs ?00:34
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juicemesledges, ping07:02
juicemesledges, about the multibooting, as you say you are afraid to go to open mode because you need to recreate accounts07:03
juicemeif you currently use both Nemo and Harmattan, you _already_ are in open mode :)07:04
juicemebecause any time you ever, even once boot your device with something else than Nokia-signed Harmattan kernel, wham-bang-boom you go to open mode, for as long until you reflash your rootfs!07:05
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juicemeso, if you currently have working accounts on Harmattan, the situation will not change if you install ubiboot to select between different Nemo instances, for example07:07
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fvlwhy does he care about accounts?07:09
fvlforgot pass?07:09
juicemei have no idea :)07:11
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juicemebut, usually when you go to open mode from Harmattan closed mode, you need to recreate the aegis storages due to the signing keys changin.07:20
juicemeOriginally I thought this is because of open mode itself, but it might not be so, it's the kernel itself which causes it.07:21
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juicemeSee, if you boot to open mode WITH the original kernel, the kernel is still Nokia-signed, and your aegis keys are retained.07:21
juicemeIf you boot to open mode with different kernel, then the keys need to be recreated.07:22
juicemeSo, I haven't tested this but I belive using the original Nokia Harmattan kernel with ubiboot will allow you to have your existing accounts and aegis storages.07:23
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valdur55juiceme: Btw. you don't need to recreate accounts manually. You can use restore && backup stuff.07:37
ndvl\msg NickServ VERIFY REGISTER ndvl zwxbjvievxow07:37
phakosomeone needs a new password.07:37
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juicemeit's tha clash-of-slashes07:38
juicemevaldur55, yes, that's one way, backup both open mode and closed mode accounts and restore selectively.07:39
juicemecould be made part of preinit actually, to be done automatically on boot :)07:39
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juicemendvl, I hope ya already changed your password...07:40
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nodevel:) A major fail... It was a nick I registered few months ago when I forgot the password to my main one (this) but never checked the registration e-mail. So this password was already obsolete few months -1 day ago :)08:16
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rcgmorning Sage_08:54
tachikomahi - can i insall nemo on my n900 parallel to maemo?08:55
tachikomai currenlty have a free 5Gb partition in the internal memory and wanted to play with it a bit ;)08:58
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Sage_tachikoma: the recommended way is to install nemo to microsd card08:59
tachikomaok, i see09:00
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tachikomai guess i need to install a new bootloader then as well?09:00
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tachikomaah, got it:
tachikomakizz: mh, i guess with i should be able to configure it to boot from the internal partition as well, and i dd the immage just from the booted maeme system09:05
tachikomaups, the kizz should not be there ;)09:05
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sledgesjuiceme, you are the answer to my fears :D09:19
sledgesI had all my accounts recreated after I first time booted Nemo, yes09:20
sledgesnow I will try ubiboot asap and tell you if I have to go through this again09:20
lbtjust a heads-up. MeeGo OBS will be shutdown in 2 weeks.09:21
rcglbt, thanks for the warning09:21
rcgso that will then be the official end09:21
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lbtpretty much09:22
* lbt wonders if Tizen could live on if they shut down?09:23
sledgestizen have their own 'walled' obs09:23
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sledgesis that why anyone who don't get access to it (e.g. me) would have been using COBS ?09:24
sledgesotherwise I don't understand your last question lbt ^09:25
lbtMeeGo was reasonably open and had a community. When Nokia/Intel left the project could continue = with Tizen the project would just die.09:26
slaineand I'm not sure they have a passionate community09:30
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rcgayel, with closed infrastructure they cannot grow a community at all09:34
rcgwell, not only infrastructure i guess, but i hope you get what i want to say :)09:35
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panda84kdeI'm a bit perplexed Tizen is baked by Linux Foundation. Afterall it's a nonprofit dedicated to fostering Linux growth. How could that be achieved with a closed behind the doors community?09:37
sledgeswith samsung and intel dictating from behind the scenes09:37
sledgesfor instance: how can this be open if they selectively choose whom to give access to their main OBS ?09:38
dm8tbrthey went into this mode after meego as it seems their management decided that 'this in the open thing doesn't work'09:39
dm8tbrprobably because even then there was too much behind the scenes09:39
sledgesgood luck with that then09:39
dm8tbrwell now it's yet-another-open-source-based-commercial-stack09:39
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dm8tbrbecause that has worked so well in the past09:39
soldoKynsledges: Sage_: hi guys! here I am another time (aka davide_, do you remember me)? Sorry for this further questions...I've got some issues with the maliit appears always fullscreen covering the rest of the UI and then I can't exit from the keyboard (I have to kill it from command line) an already known problem?09:40
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sledgessoldoKyn, what screen resolution are you running it on?09:41
sledgesdm8tbr, it worked so well, because the stack itself was more open. not as open this time though09:42
soldoKynsledges: 1920x1200p-5909:44
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panda84kdeHi (i'm a soldoKyn coworker). It looks like we're hitting this bug: but it's apparently been fixed a year ago and our version contains all the fixes (0.92.4)09:49
Merbot` bug 23 in General "Maliit should work without a compositing window manager under X11" [Enhancement,Resolved: fixed]09:49
dm8tbrsledges: I think you'll need to recalibrate your sarcasm detector09:50
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sledgesdm8tbr, been for wayy not enough time in UK. they're using triple sarcasm here on daily basis, </integration_fail> :)09:55
sledgessoldoKyn, panda84kde, so you are not running mcompositor?09:56
panda84kdesledges: yes, as we're evil insideā„¢, we've moved to Plasma Active. :) It's just that we're experiencing the same problem in "kwin without compositing" and "nemo without mcompositor"10:05
sledgesthen also worth asking in #active ;)10:05
sledgesbut nemo will eventually switch to qt510:05
sledgesand mcompositor does not work in qt510:06
sledgesso it will be inevitable to ditch mcompositor, and actually switch to wayland10:06
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sledgesthat's the mid-term-to-long-term roadmap10:06
panda84kdewayland ftw!10:06
sledges"mobile linux done right" ;)10:07
sledgesphrase of the year10:07
panda84kdeyes. we're going to ask in #active, but you're much more vital than them these days ;)10:07
sledgesok, I personally never thought/worked on making maliit work without mcompositor, sorry here :)10:08
sledgesI had same problems with mcompositor, because hardware acceleration was not fully working10:08
sledges*on OMAP4 pandaboard that is10:09
sledgeswe fixed several important bugs with the author of PVR10:09
sledges..SGX driver (robclark)10:09
sledgesconsidering tripple buffering and gles qt apps crash fix10:09
sledgesso you could try to get a hold of vivante developers, and figure out why mcompositor does not work10:10
sledgesit might be mising some EGL_ or GLES_ extensions10:10
panda84kdesledges: we've tried poking our contacts at Freescale to in turn poke the guys at Vivante, but it's not an easy road. However a new driver release is out so we're taking a look at what's improved!10:16
sledgesyup. in the meantime you could dig deeper into mcompositor to see what's failing10:17
sledgesthat requires a system level of expertise though..10:17
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panda84kdesledges: thanks. it would surely be interesting, but I'm on other tasks as well, and that's not prioritary at the moment10:29
sledgesoke doke :) running lipstick/kde:pa without compositor is still loads of fun! :D10:31
* sledges is very happy that other companies are embracing Mer and the family, doing well panda84kde & soldoKyn 10:32
panda84kdebeware, we're evil ;) we're using Yocto too...10:33
* sledges says to himself, "well, you can't have everything" :)10:33
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panda84kdesledges: maliit-active and maliit-nemo (don't know how to call the qml in maliit-plugins package) don't work fullscreen, but maliit-keyboard itself does!11:12
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sledgespanda84kde, I don't read you: so far three states of maliit: half-screen(good), full-screen(bad, you posted a link to bug), and sometimes maliit doesn't show up at all (the whole screen becomes black) - there's another bug for this one, I hope you haven't come across it yet11:39
sledgesnow there are three flavours of maliit: -active, -nemo, and -keyboard11:39
sledgesso you should pick a flavour that works for you11:39
sledges*works "good" :)11:39
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panda84kdeI just encountered the "fullscreen black", the one in the bug, which is "keyboard displays ok, and the rest of the screen black".11:44
sledgesah yes that one11:44
panda84kdethat's what happens with nemo and plasma active keyboards on a non composited environment11:44
panda84kdestock maliit-keyboard works even in non-composited, as per patches listed in the bug11:45
bartexhi, how to start x server in nemo?11:49
Sage_bartex: it is started as part of systemd usersession11:56
Sage_bartex: systemctl start user-session@1000.service for example11:56
bartexok. thanks.11:56
Sage_and check journalctl -b as log if something goes wrong11:56
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sledgesso great success then panda84kde , use stock maliit if no compositor \o/12:05
panda84kdeI think Nemo's bug is this one:
Merbot` bug 192 in Nemo Keyboard "Self-compositing does not work for QML plugins" [Normal,Confirmed]12:07
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tachikomaok, i now extracted the user partition of the nemo image and wrote it to /dev/mmcblk1p3 (3rd partition on sd card), then i copied the uimage kernel from the first partition in the nemo image to that partition as well. Created a uboot menu entry and now the kernel does boot, however, it does only boot the krenel and then fails to start init ...15:42
tachikomais what i did even correct?15:42
tachikomaups, ave to go afk, sry15:43
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Sage_tachikoma: the nemo image contains partition table as well so if you wrote it to /dev/mmcblk1p3 it doesn't work you need to write it to /dev/mmcblk115:54
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rcgSage_, i had a closer look at the moslo stuff16:40
rcgi'm afraid the init script for nexus7 differs very much from the one for n9-95016:41
rcgideally we would have an option to replace the default init script with custom scripts16:41
rcg <-- that's the diff of the n9-950 version against the nexus7 version16:45
rcghmm.. maybe another option is to have the general algorithm defined in init and add hooks at appropriate places16:51
rcgthe hooks could then be implemented device specifc16:52
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kulvehooks sounds good. They can be even added by HA?17:15
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rcgkulve, you mean by hardware adaptation?17:44
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rcgwould make sense17:45
rcgfor me, the first goal right now is to somehow get the nexus7 stuff meaningfully in there :)17:46
rcgideally in a way such that we minimize duplicate code17:47
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Alex[sp3dev]hi Mer/Nemo developers! I enjoy what you've been doing. Could anyone help me understand some basics of graphics integration?18:00
faenilnot a good time for questions :D18:01
faenilJollians are getting ready for monday's launch18:01
faenilso they're all busy :)18:01
Alex[sp3dev]I've used the libhybris. I've used the android with bionic patches (actually, the system from ubuntu touch). android binaries work. libhybris test_glesv2 displays the spinning circles18:03
Alex[sp3dev]so, what do I need now to have the full UI working? I've used the fbdev driver, but X crashes with DAMAGE extension. Any hints? Is X going to remain or will mer completely use wayland?18:04
Stskeepsdon't use X and libhybris18:05
Alex[sp3dev]well, okay, PVR does have X11 drivers, but porting to a new kernel is tiresome (okay, I've done that for like 10 devices on PXA, MSM and Tegra, but don't wanna go over it again). could you explain why X and hybris don't mix?18:06
Stskeepswell, it's mostly that you need to practically implement DRI2 for android drivers18:09
Stskeepsand better men than me have tried18:09
Alex[sp3dev]okay, I will then just port Galaxy Nexus board support to pandaboard kernel 3.4 since I've seen the recent builds of Nemo Mobile running on it with graphics18:10
Alex[sp3dev]thanks for pointing out hybris is the wrong way to go for X11. but is wayland going to be used for phone UI on Nemo? I mean, are android drivers of any use for the whole stack, not for single applications?18:12
Sage_rcg: kulve: :nod: something like that possibly.18:15
StskeepsAlex[sp3dev]: basically qt5+wayland is way forward18:15
Sage_rcg: kulve: as said it was just quick 30mins to check some of the deps regarding to n950-n9. Haven't tried on any other device so no idea how much more device specific stuff htere is really18:15
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Alex[sp3dev]Stskeeps: one last question for you then. So, the future plans are to have the phone UI running on wayland and using X inside wayland for legacy and custom apps?18:17
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Stskeepsi think if you want performant mobile setup, don't have X involved at all18:19
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tachikomaSage_: thanks, i changed fstab inside the root fs accordingly, but it seems that the kernel can access the partition even earlier18:20
tachikomathe kernel commandline contains root=/dev/mmcblk1p318:20
tachikomasorry for being afk so long, kids ...18:21
tachikomabut i don't have the n900 here right now for debugging, sill do that in about an hour18:22
Alex[sp3dev]Stskeeps: honestly,I've used linux on mobiles since PXA270 cpu (used GPE,OPIE,Qtopia).I've used Ubuntu with x11 on my tegra2 tablet and exynos4 phone.I care not about performance,but about having an UI for phone that's competitive to android :)18:22
Stskeepsand you won't get that with x ;)18:22
tachikomajust wondering, can i also tell him root=$UID_OF_PARTITION ?18:22
* Stskeeps had pxa270 stuff too18:22
faenilStskeeps, +100 :D18:22
tachikomaStskeeps: you are one of my heros btw - no idea how often a tmo post from you made me happy ;)18:23
Stskeepsyeah.. sadly(?) not posting there anymore18:23
tachikomatimes change i guess18:24
Stskeepswell, the place turned a bit toxic :/18:24
Stskeepsi spent more time arguing than relaying constructive info18:24
tachikomatbh i do only reread old thread i have bookmarked ;)18:25
Alex[sp3dev]I've been trying to adapt the SHR linux for my phones, but it turned out unusable I like Qt4 since Qtopia so I've been following Mer all the way (though I could not afford N9/N900 2-3 years ago).18:25
tachikomabut was never a big poster there18:25
Alex[sp3dev]Thank you for developing Mer. I'll be trying to use it and port it to Galaxy Nexus18:25
StskeepsAlex[sp3dev]: ever seen the videos of nemo mobile on n900 recently?18:25
Alex[sp3dev]Stskeeps: yes, it looks like meego18:26
Morpog_PCharmattan to be exactly :-)18:26
tachikomaanyway, waiting to preorder my jolla phone ...18:26
Stskeepsyeah.. a long journey leading to this18:26
Alex[sp3dev]do you think it's worth expecting a full-hd jolla phone this year or is it better to port nemo to some android phone instead?18:27
tachikomai have an ainol nova7 fire - with software to write the nand via usb - so i hope i also can get mer working there :)18:27
StskeepsAlex[sp3dev]: i'm always for learning skills on how to actually do mobile OS yourself18:27
Alex[sp3dev]Stskeeps: well, I have some experience with that (I've ported Android to a winmo phone with NAND booting), but work and university take a lot time recently :D18:28
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Stskeepslibhybris makes a lot of things a lot easier18:28
ajalkanehehe... Stskeeps and who-was-it, misterc or abit-whatever. TMO flaming times.18:28
Alex[sp3dev]at work I'm porting Genode Framework to omap418:28
Stskeepsa year ago i had almost given up on non-android having any future in mobile18:28
Alex[sp3dev]I hate android because of it's custom gnu-unfriendly build system which makes porting free software difficult. besides, some stuff like media scanner is broken by design.I like android UI but it's too slow even on dual-core18:29
Stskeepstrust me: media scanners are deadly anywhere18:30
ajalkaneI had to set-up a Samsung tablet for me grandma. And I couldn't believe my burning eyes how lagging it was. Not being much of a tablet guy myself I have no frame of reference, but with the kind of CPUs and GPUs chugging inside the thing I wouldn't have expected such choppy operation.18:31
Alex[sp3dev]the good thing about being a grandma who doesn't understand how computers work is that lags and freezes don't make you want to nuke the world18:32
ajalkaneAye yes, I don't think she minds that at all. It was just a surprise to me.18:32
ajalkaneGames worked well and fast. It was just the base OS that was choppy and laggy.18:33
tachikomathe point were i stopped using android was when i saw an ad based sshd ...18:37
ajalkaneI like Android.18:39
tachikomain general i would not say that i dislike it18:40
tachikomai'm just not their target group18:40
ajalkaneI've never used Android systems as my main anything18:41
ajalkaneBut when it came, the mobile world was closed. Symbian, BB, Windows Mobile, iOS just out of gates... Android brought that promise of freedom that was lacking.18:41
ajalkaneSo I'll always appreciate it for that, even thought I'm not fan of the VM based approach and several other details of the development18:42
ajalkaneBut now there's much more exciting alternatives coming up than Android so I'm just content appreciating what it was, but hoping I won't be using it :)18:43
tachikomaat that point i already had a n800 ;)18:43
tachikomaand that got me hooked18:44
ajalkaneAye... I used N95 until N9 came. I was close on getting N900 but there was a couple of things nagging me about it, so I waited.18:44
tachikomai now use my n900 since 3,5 years and still am completely happy with it18:45
tachikomai actually bought a second one as i feared th hw might break at some point ;)18:45
ajalkaneIt seems it's good idea to stockpile those N900s18:46
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tachikomait's a linux pocket computer i also can use as a phone ...18:46
tachikomai never saw it as a "smartphone"18:46
ajalkaneI think most people don't see it as a smartphone either18:48
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valdur55Yea. N9 is like a pocket computer. I can run chroot env and have full linux there... Only problem is  on screen keyboard18:56
ajalkaneI don't miss hardware keyboard as long as I can ssh to the device. I'm almost equally frustrated trying to type on the pitiful small hw-keyboards provided by mobile devices as with software keyboards.19:00
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valdur55Yep. Same here .. I use dvorak keyboard layout.19:16
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tachikomamy n900 boots nemo for the first time right now :)20:47
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tachikomahow long does the first usually take?20:55
tachikomafirst boot20:55
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faeniltachikoma, it could get stuck on first boot, so if it stood there for 5 mins reboot ;)21:22
tachikomalol, ok thx21:23
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faeniltachikoma, should have been fixed in the very latest update21:28
faenildon't know if it is included in the released image though21:28
tachikomamh, maybe i also have still an error in my config21:28
faenilcould be21:28
faenilthe issue I'm talking about is for n950/n9, don't know if the same happens on n90021:29
tachikomait seems to loop, i gte the nemo splash screen but after some time some los scroll through, too fast to read, and then back to the splash screen21:29
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tachikomai wrote a .item config file u-boot, as i extracted the root partition from the image and copied it onto the third partition of the sd card.21:31
tachikoma"welcome to emergency mode" :)21:34
tachikomaI guess something is still not configured right...21:35
faenilcan't help, I have never had an n900 :/ n950 only21:36
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tachikoma no problem, will figure it out myself, but not today22:04
faeniltachikoma, I'm sure people will be able to help tomorrow ;)22:07
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