Wednesday, 2013-08-14

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faenilmorning08:08
aknightmooning08:12
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rcgmorning folks :)08:14
faenil:)08:19
fk_lxhi08:20
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grysledgeSim: sorry?08:23
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sledgeSimgry, i remember you were promoting/contributing to mozembed/cutefox09:22
sledgeSimwhat is its state wrt qt5(we'll have it running on wayland)09:23
grysledgeSim: to mozilla firefox yes, hear this thing first time though; I didn't get to use much internet on Nemo.. keeps autoconnecting to a wifi network that's broken and I can't get it to stop (I see the other correct wifi network in the list)09:33
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sledgeSimgry, and old convo:09:36
sledgeSim19:56 < Sazius> but Nemo on N950 is otherwise more or less usable? e.g. web browsing over Wifi?09:36
sledgeSim19:57 < gry> from persoonal experience, a zilion times yes (just wish urls were easier to open from fingerterm)09:36
sledgeSimwhere i'm coming from :}09:36
gryyes, I got to use a browser over usb networking, it was great09:36
gryI didn't even know its name.. then I stopped using usb networking a while ago so I'm out of the loop again09:37
sledgeSimi see, i just wondered what is the qt5 status on qtmozembed09:37
sledgeSimor effort involved to bring it there09:37
grydunno, no idea, I use a browser without an idea of its name nor qt version it's on. you'd really have to ask someone else09:38
gryI could probably test it on a device if that's useful but I definitely need more reading, I end up now knowing what I'm doing a bit too often09:38
grynot knowing*09:39
sledgeSimthat's fine, one cannot know everything09:39
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sledgeSimremember my father says "only fools know everything" and for some reason he adds "and only fools got no enemies", i think it's a (famous?) quote09:40
sledgeSim:)09:40
gryyeah, I got wifi to die by shutting off connman so I could try to look for its config somewhere..09:41
sledgeSimgry, you can play with connman-tests package09:42
sledgeSimand connect manually to a chosen AP via cmdline09:42
sledgeSimto see if that works09:42
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Morpog_sledgeSim, cutefox im technically ported and can be used already. Just it's UI is not ported and very very basic atm on Qt5. You can try to install from repos. cutefox-qt5 is it's name. It works fine on sailfishOS emulator.09:51
Morpog_http://t.co/esgLm7EIrR09:51
Morpog_cutefox is*09:51
sledgeSimMorpog_, fantastical, will keep it as a tempting option09:52
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Morpog_sledgeSim, a very tempting one I would say, as Jolla is using it (with own UI of course) as its browser.10:07
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sledgeSimMorpog_, that has always been a dispute: whether they're using gecko based, webkit based, or simply opera :))10:08
Morpog_they already announced its Gecko based10:08
sledgeSim?10:08
sledgeSim:}~10:08
Stskeepsit's gecko based10:08
sledgeSimlol10:08
Morpog_see :)10:08
sledgeSim:D10:09
sledgeSimyes :D10:09
faenilsledgeSim, no Opera, I can say10:09
Morpog_now you know why it's already ported to Qt5 ;)10:09
sledgeSimhah! :))10:09
sledgeSimi thought they want to have many cards in their hands ;)10:10
sledgeSimand let choose just like Windows "lets" :D10:10
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sledgeSimas there has been a statement of partnership with Opera10:10
Morpog_well, I wouldn't say no to an Opera based 3rd party browser as fallback :)10:10
sledgeSimsee :)10:10
sledgeSimwe'll see, but nemo will surely be (and already is) about the choice10:10
sledgeSimthe Linux way10:10
faenilthe Opera partnership is old stuff, afaik10:11
sledgeSimwe got Cutefox, Snowshoe and who knows what else10:11
sledgeSimgood to know that we can forget Helium10:11
Morpog_well Opera cann still release a browser on sailfishOS, like they do on almost every mobile OS10:11
* sledgeSim needs to update wiki10:11
sledgeSimsure10:11
faenilsure10:12
faenillocusf, ^10:12
* sledgeSim was about to say the same locusf ^ :D10:12
faenilsledgeSim, first \o/10:12
sledgeSim#YouWereTheFirstOne :))10:14
faenil:D10:14
locusfah ok10:18
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locusfI don't mind TBH10:19
Morpog_? locusf did helium?10:20
locusfalmost did10:21
Morpog_well someone with coding skills (so not me :) ) could port cutefox UI or do a new UI for it. While I like cutefox UI, it could be too much for newbies :)10:22
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sledgeSimsounds like a plan and sounds like fun!10:26
sledgeSimis good decision to go with cutefox, as jolla will be maintaining its middleware10:26
sledgeSim(i.e. rendering engine)10:27
sledgeSimand we'll need to blob our own ui on top (just like we do with glacier)10:27
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Morpog_You could ask coderus when there are problems, he did qmlmozbrowser/cutefox and meefox UI on Qt4.10:30
Morpog_irc.mozilla.org #embedlite (thats also where the other embedlite (Jolla?) devs hang around)10:32
sledgeSimvery nice10:32
sledgeSimim also looking into snowshoe10:32
sledgeSimqt5 webkit2 port exists, has been showed some love 2-4 months ago10:32
sledgeSimbut orig repos shows latest touches only January 2013..10:34
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sledgeSimcurrent state of snowshoe: http://i1260.photobucket.com/albums/ii567/sledgas/mer/nemo/snowshoe_zps656072bc.png http://i1260.photobucket.com/albums/ii567/sledgas/mer/nemo/snowshoe-webkit_zps4676f990.png11:07
sledgeSimorientation needs fixing (so I couldn't check the other buttons it has like settings), and it does not scroll/slide with mouse (arrow keys work)11:08
sledgeSimbut UI is there, and webkit looks very recent11:09
sledgeSimsadly marks up only 349pts11:10
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gryI have a "Foo Network" available, and a "wifi_rubbish_managed_psk" id for it; "test-connman autoconnect wifi_rubbish_managed_psk 1", disabling wireless and re-enabling it doesn't make it autoconnect. how do I go from there? (was looking at https://gist.github.com/canadaduane/5608549)11:11
gryo. /var/lib/connman/ looks useful, as I see from the wiki apparently11:12
sledgeSimbut it's possible to botch up 349 higher providing for snowshoe/webkit video/audio/location bits where it's lacking11:13
sledgeSimlet's see how complete cutefox is :)11:13
locusfI get 43511:17
sledgeSimlocusf, with?11:18
sledgeSimhelium? :)11:18
locusfnah, cutefox11:18
sledgeSimsame like 10:51 < Morpog_> http://t.co/esgLm7EIrR11:18
sledgeSimnice :)11:18
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locusfwell at least its reproducible :)11:19
sledgeSimi think less effort will be to write a UI for cutefox11:19
sledgeSimand if someone is a webkit fanboy/girl, we know where to point them at ;)11:19
sledgeSimwhat do you think faenil, locusf ?11:20
faenilsledgeSim, sorry was having lunch, what is the question?11:20
sledgeSimis above :))11:20
faenilwell, let's got for cutefox? :)11:21
faenilif it's more complete alread11:21
faenily11:21
locusfwell its got qt5 already setup11:21
sledgeSimboth are incomplete11:21
faeniland Jolla bases off that11:21
sledgeSimyes, jolla backing is a good thing - they will maintain gecko etc11:21
sledgeSimbut mer will maintain webkit as they do now11:21
sledgeSimnicely11:21
sledgeSimso11:21
sledgeSimwe're kind-of at par11:21
gryhrm, didn't think gecko is a mobile thing after mozilla started shipping firefox on android only11:22
sledgeSimsnowshoe has complete ui, but incomplete rendering engine11:22
sledgeSimcutefox - vice versa11:22
SuperpelicansledgeSim:How many mobile browsers are there for the Meego/Maemo family currently?11:22
grythere was a half-dead attempt at packing new gecko with old unmaintained xul interface which still works at maemo but I've not seen anything past that11:22
gry(oh, and a gecko thing called microb but I haven't seen that at nemo yet)11:23
sledgeSimSuperpelican, too many, and none of them production quality11:23
SuperpelicansledgeSim:I suspected so11:23
SuperpelicanI've read about *a lot* of them11:23
Superpelicanfor Harmattan11:23
SuperpelicansledgeSim:Maybe there should be some more collaboration/merging11:23
gryis there something to test / try at nemo without wayland now or is all the effort for qt5 only ?11:23
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SuperpelicansledgeSim:Of course we could try to make a best-of-everything browser11:24
sledgeSimis quite senseless to continue testing on x11, because on wayland you can't guarantee the same behaviour11:24
SuperpelicanUI from browser with best UI + rendering engine from browser with best rendering engine11:24
SuperpelicansledgeSim:Is there some webpage with a list of all Meego/Maemo family (yes, that includes Sailfish/Mer/Nemo) browsers?11:26
Morpog_gry, sledgeSim embedlite (IPCliteAPI) is a similar approach that microb used with GTK and gecko, just with Qt and gecko. It's developer is also the same guy afaik (romaxa).11:27
Morpog_https://wiki.mozilla.org/Embedding/IPCLiteAPI11:27
sledgeSimthere are so many ways to create/clone a UI11:29
SuperpelicansledgeSim:Which browser currently is the most stable/has the brightest future?11:29
sledgeSimbut we need to raise principles first11:29
sledgeSimi like w00t's principle: lightweight and bare-necessities-first11:29
sledgeSimnow there's a need to type in URL and press enter11:30
sledgeSim:)11:30
sledgeSimso we come up with UI for that11:30
sledgeSimwhen there's a need for more, someone jumps in and codes that in11:30
SuperpelicansledgeSim:eh, you're not actually planning to start a new browser project right now, are you?11:30
sledgeSimfollowing existing design11:30
sledgeSimSuperpelican, im talking about UI11:30
Superpelicanphew11:30
sledgeSimif you take old UI from somewhere else, it will be tied to its originating browser11:30
sledgeSimquite likely too big/incompatible with our rendering engine/system APIs11:31
sledgeSimand IPCs11:31
sledgeSimstuffs like opening a URL from fingerterm ;)11:31
sledgeSimso, keep it simple11:32
sledgeSimwhat is current UI on cutefox?11:32
sledgeSimlocusf,11:32
sledgeSimbecause we haven't got many resources to develop a full blown UI11:33
Morpog_It's just a URLBAR11:33
Morpog_nothing else :)11:34
sledgeSimgood, first stage done :DD11:34
sledgeSimUI design could be done by Hurrian11:34
sledgeSimto blend in with glacier11:34
Morpog_back/forward reload/stop buttons would be good :)11:34
sledgeSimin collab with qwazix11:34
sledgeSim:D yep lol first feature request11:34
sledgeSimso, a design mockup would be nice to have11:34
sledgeSimor do we already?11:34
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Morpog_don't think so11:35
Hurriano hai.11:35
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sledgeSimheya Hurrian :)11:35
sledgeSimwe need a browser! :DD11:35
Hurriansee the mockups on Grog ;)11:35
HurrianI'll start whacking on Glacier come semestral break.11:35
sledgeSimthe bare design of browser is already there Morpog_ : http://play.qwazix.com/grog/?p=34411:36
sledgeSimwith minimalistic (i like :)) back/forth arrows11:36
Morpog_which one is the browser?11:36
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sledgeSimunder camera11:37
sledgeSim2nd row right11:37
sledgeSimbut arrows might be too small for a finger11:37
Morpog_hmmmm, a bit too minimalistic11:38
sledgeSimbut remember it must show as much content too11:38
sledgeSimso hovering finger above those arrows11:38
Morpog_have you seen latest firefox on android?11:38
sledgeSimcould indicate a swipe left - back11:38
sledgeSimswipe right - forwar11:38
sledgeSimnope11:38
Morpog_when you scroll down, the urlbar get scrolled down too11:38
Morpog_a bit like my browser mockup I did a while ago11:39
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Morpog_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1C52xMBtPg11:40
kjokiniew00t: chriadam: Aard: https://github.com/nemomobile/ngfd/pull/1511:40
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kjokiniew00t: chriadam: Aard: .. never mind, forgot to update the documentation.. will resend bit later11:42
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sledgeSimMorpog_, looks great! have you got time to show some love to cutefox then? ;)11:42
Morpog_erm well, I can't code :)11:43
Morpog_that was pure photoshop/premiere artwork11:43
sledgeSimlol i though it was qml demo :D11:43
sledgeSimbut a good mockup nevertheless11:43
sledgeSimi just would like to tie it in more with glacier UX paradigms (look'n'feel)11:44
Morpog_sure, that was harmattan UI11:44
sledgeSimre-skinning is not a problem11:44
sledgeSimbut making top bar it as tiny as in glacier's mockup, also not convenient11:44
sledgeSimso some design brainstorming required11:44
Morpog_I really like the approach of moving urlbar, firefox on android and latest opera on android perfected that11:45
Morpog_you should give them a try11:45
sledgeSimand google browser on android acts the same btw ;)11:45
Morpog_ah, well, first thing I do is install firefox :)11:45
sledgeSim:D11:46
sledgeSima slight swipe down and url bar is back11:46
Morpog_yep11:46
sledgeSimno matter where on page you are11:46
Morpog_I think thats the goal to save screen real estate11:46
sledgeSimof course there is a threshold - a "slightly smaller than slightly" ;D swipe does not trigger it11:46
Morpog_of course11:46
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sledgeSimlocusf, sorry for your effort, but mind if I replace helium with cutefox in wiki?11:52
sledgeSimim sure you still learned some :)11:53
locusfsledgeSim: sure, no problem11:53
sledgeSimgreat, thanks11:53
locusfsledgeSim: https://github.com/nemomobile-packages/cutefox11:54
locusfthats probably the right url11:54
locusfah its not11:55
sledgeSimit's not originating one yup11:56
sledgeSimnemomobile-packages is a package where nemo is not upstream11:56
locusfthat ones got some ui too11:56
locusfah ok11:56
sledgeSimthis is the very orig repo: https://github.com/tmeshkova/qmlmozbrowser11:57
locusfyep11:57
sledgeSimgood question if we should contribute upstream or to -packages..11:57
sledgeSimprobably our ui will be on -packages; well, we'll need a maintainer to keep merging from upstream11:57
Morpog_well, cutefox was maintained by rozkohv, maybe we should ask him? (on #embedlite)11:58
sledgeSimthe same way jolla does with their ui11:58
sledgeSimgood idea12:00
Morpog_upstream has qmlmozbrowser which has its own components12:00
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sledgeSimis there a split between the two?12:00
locusfhmm I can't run that repo code12:01
locusfit crashes on startup12:01
sledgeSimwhich 1?12:01
Morpog_well, on qt4 not, only packaging and executing was different12:01
locusfqmlmozbrowser12:01
sledgeSimis several commits ahead12:01
sledgeSimbut july 17 and back is 1:112:01
sledgeSimthe two repos12:01
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sledgeSimi see pvuorela is adding patches to maliit repo (nemo is not upstream): https://github.com/nemomobile-packages/maliit-framework/tree/master/rpm12:07
sledgeSimi dislike patches (we got rid of them in OBS asap), i wonder can this be done via branches..12:08
sledgeSimwhichever's less headache really..12:08
sledgeSimbut cutefox is just a UI wrapper around qtmozembed12:10
sledgeSimso we could write our own (icefox) wrapper - just by cloning this simplest ever subtree and taking it from there: https://github.com/nemomobile-packages/cutefox/tree/master/quick12:10
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sledgeSim(icefox as in glacier ;D)12:11
Morpog_and you can always have a look on qmlmozbrowser and meefox how coderus solved stuff like search in page, etc.12:11
sledgeSimyup12:12
sledgeSimi think that's the way to go12:12
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Morpog_I'll try to do a mockup.Hurrian seems to be busy atm if I understood him correct?12:13
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sledgeSimwell I think up to this point he's done very well what we currently need12:13
sledgeSimso is great that anyone else can start chipping in12:13
sledgeSimwe should also see how the phase with glacier qt-components go12:14
Morpog_I can borrow stuff from his UI mockups :)12:14
sledgeSimfaenil, is there sense to wait for qt5 app PRs to go through?12:14
HurrianMorpog_: yep, super busy.12:14
sledgeSimas w00t is on holiday12:14
Hurrianalthough if you've got questions about Glacier, just shoot!12:14
Hurrianthere might be UI concepts I haven't elaborated on12:14
sledgeSimhope he'll help as much as possible, but it will be slow12:14
sledgeSimHurrian, I think Morpog_ will soon ask you to share some browsery SVG bits ;)12:15
sledgeSimand should we go with pitch black background?12:16
Hurrianyep, pitch black.12:16
sledgeSimgreat12:16
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faenilsledgeSim, I don't see any12:17
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Morpog_well, if hurrian can share why not. Else I would produce a remix of his UI elements in photoshop with my vision how a browser should look like on nemo and glacier12:17
faenilmy 2 cents, it doesn't make sense to create the browser UI without even having a prototype of the UI components we'll use in Nemo12:17
HurrianMorpog_: if you want the PSDs, I can give 'em to ya12:18
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Morpog_sure hurrian would be convenient12:18
sledgeSimfaenil, yes, Morpog_ will work on a mockup too12:18
Morpog_faenil, a mockup is a mockup, implementation will always be a bit different12:19
faenilsledgeSim, I'm talking about real QML prototype12:19
faenilMorpog_, sure12:19
sledgeSimfaenil, ok, I wasn't talking about qml yet12:19
faenilI'm tlaking about coding, doesn't make sense to start coding the UI when we don't even know the components we will use :D12:19
faenilphotoshop work can continue, of course :P12:20
faenilok12:20
sledgeSimgood we're on same page :)12:20
faenil:)12:20
faenilI should get done with fingerterm in a bit, and then I'll be looking for a new task :P12:20
sledgeSimand those without anything to do should help finishing porting apps as much as possible (we're blocked by qmlsettings->qmlmail)12:22
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sledgeSimqmlmessages still needs love, any takers?12:22
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faenilsledgeSim, guys from Nomovok said they were working on a port as well12:25
faenilparallel to special's work12:25
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faenilsledgeSim, same about qmlcontacts12:26
sledgeSimwhat should we do those who have free time? ;)12:27
faenilsome TODOs: pattern creations starting from my .ks12:28
faenilso that we can start building images for other devices12:28
faenilpatterns* creation12:29
sledgeSimcould you please drop some links (in wiki) on this bit?12:30
faenilwell, I wouldn't know what to link12:30
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faenilthere's nemo-patterns package12:30
sledgeSimi.e. a tutorual how patterns work and what .git to clone from12:31
sledgeSimright12:31
sledgeSimand how to test that you didn't blow the world up after modifying that package? ;)12:31
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faenileh...that is a nice question12:32
faenilbuild the image and test as much as you can?12:32
faenilcheck journalctl for errors...12:32
sledgeSimthat's the thing12:32
faenilit's not easy12:32
sledgeSimwhere is nemo-patterns deployed?12:32
faenilsledgeSim, I'm missing that bit12:32
sledgeSimdo you need Sage for that?12:32
faenilhow it goes from github to repo patterns12:32
faenilprobabl12:32
sledgeSimso it looks like it's a blocky task12:33
sledgeSim!seen Sage12:33
MerbotsledgeSim: Sage was last seen in #nemomobile 2 weeks, 5 days, 1 hour, 34 minutes, and 16 seconds ago: <Sage> deztructor_: seems ok12:33
sledgeSim:)12:33
faenileh :P12:34
sledgeSimpah :b12:34
sledgeSimTODOitem->next(); :)12:37
sledgeSimMorpog_ suggested to theme in glacier icons already; I can easily install all apps (even with open PRs) on VM (best if Stskeeps could also snip them onto Alcatel phone), and make a demo of current status to gain interest12:41
sledgeSimwill be easy effort on Alcatel side, because I'll provide all repos with armv7*12:44
faenilsledgeSim, todoSolver segfaulted :(12:45
sledgeSimahah null pointer exception :))12:45
faenilsledgeSim, what is worrying about the patterns thing is the time it will take to get the Pull Request reviewed xD12:50
sledgeSimyes12:50
sledgeSimit's the same with all other PRs12:51
sledgeSimwe should try to keep balance between productivity/chaos and progress :))12:51
sledgeSimit will be a bit of all, but ain't that fun :D12:51
faenil:)12:52
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faenilsledgeSim, well, looking forward: we need qtquickcontrols packaging12:54
faeniland implementing of new controls needed by glacier UI12:54
faenil(and maybe upstream them?)12:54
faenilthat is the next big step12:54
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sledgeSimpackaging is there13:01
sledgeSim:) \o/13:02
sledgeSimit just needs to be SRed by cxl000 to mer:qt:devel13:03
faenilok13:04
faenilqwazix, Hurrian what's the current status of Glacier components work?13:04
Hurrianfaenil, mockups only :/13:04
Hurrianhttp://hurrian.github.io/glacier/13:04
faenilsledgeSim, so, that's the main block right now ^13:05
faenilHurrian, I see, thank13:05
faenilthanks*13:05
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sledgeSimthe cxl000 block? remember SRs and PRs are never a -real- block ;) lol love opensource13:06
faenilsledgeSim, nope, the fact that we still don't know which components we need13:06
sledgeSimbut if one abuses that, chaos might ensue ;)13:06
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sledgeSimah yes, so that's the next task ;)13:06
sledgeSimi think it's not up to Hurrian or qwazix to see13:06
faenilwell, I knew qwazix was working on that13:06
sledgeSimis where a qml expert kicks in :) (not that those two guys aren't)13:07
faenilor at least was on his todo13:07
sledgeSimah ok, sure then13:07
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faenilHurrian, do you have any mockup for applications?13:07
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Hurrianfaenil: only mocked up those in Grog so far.13:07
sledgeSimapps are here faenil http://play.qwazix.com/grog/?p=34413:07
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faenilI see13:14
faenilbasically the only thing we can do right now is QtQuickControls styling13:15
faenilapart from patterns for Nemo Wayland13:15
faenilwhich is top priority13:15
sledgeSimok, let's try to prepare a playground sandbox for qqc theming13:18
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sledgeSimbare qtquickcontrols demo readying to go http://i1260.photobucket.com/albums/ii567/sledgas/mer/nemo/qtquickcontrols_zps179279fb.png14:13
faenilsledgeSim, \o/14:18
faenilI got stuck with a TV movie xD14:18
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sledgeSimthat's a big bug one that one :D14:23
faenil:D14:24
faenilit's finished :D14:26
sledgeSimwhat movie? ;D14:32
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faenilit's actually not finished yet, it was just ad break :D14:36
faenilit's something like "The dawn of a new day"14:36
sledgeSimim getting this error: find: /home/abuild/rpmbuild/BUILDROOT/qt5-qtquickcontrols-examples-5.1.0-1.4.1.i386: No such file or directory14:38
sledgeSimplease help :) https://build.merproject.org/package/view_file?file=qtquickcontrols-examples.spec&package=qtquickcontrols-examples&project=home%3Asledge%3Abranches%3Anemo%3Adevel&rev=55ac879fab960a22379d3e0d15ea650814:38
sledgeSimotherwise everything is compiled and I copied binary into VM and all worked. it's just packaging problem14:39
sledgeSimsame .spec as for original qtquickcontrols by cxl00014:39
faenilsledgeSim, I see an arch missing there14:42
faenilit should end in BUILDROOT/i386, iirc14:42
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faenilsledgeSim, can you paste the whole log?14:44
* faenil likes new aknight's commit :D14:47
* faenil likes aknight's new commit, even :D14:48
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sledgeSimfaenil, I think im missing install rules14:53
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sledgeSimwhat's aknight commit then? :)14:54
faenilsledgeSim, https://github.com/nemomobile/lipstick/pull/6214:54
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sledgeSimnice, I'll most wait for the day though when n9[50] will be able to do DR ;)14:57
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faenil:)15:03
sledgeSimfaenil, https://pastee.org/euu6815:13
sledgeSim:{15:13
sledgeSimstuck15:13
sledgeSimi see this package name ending in i486 in places, and in others -- i38615:13
sledgeSimbut the package which im splitting from succeded with the same i[34]86 mixup: https://pastee.org/euun715:14
faenilI get i386 when I build locally, and i486 when I build on obs15:14
sledgeSimi reused its .spec as well15:14
sledgeSimi get same error locall and on obs, files unchanged15:15
faenillet me check15:16
sledgeSimin that other successful obs build log you can see occurrences of qt5-qtquickcontrols-5.1.0-1.1.3.i386 and qt5-qtquickcontrols-5.1.0-1.1.3.i48615:16
faenilmm let me see that log as well15:17
faenilpaths here look wron15:17
sledgeSimthere is no occurrence of qt5-qtquickcontrols-examples-5.1.0-1.7.1.i486 (only qt5-qtquickcontrols-examples-5.1.0-1.7.1.i386)15:17
sledgeSimfaenil, logs are both in both pastees ^15:17
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faenilI see only one paste?15:18
sledgeSimi think it's the way files get installed15:18
sledgeSim16:12 < sledgeSim> faenil, https://pastee.org/euu6815:18
sledgeSim16:14 < sledgeSim> but the package which im splitting from succeded with the same i[34]86 mixup: https://pastee.org/euun715:18
faeniloh yeah lol15:19
sledgeSimhad hardtime finding myself, lol resorted to use /lastlog (irssi ;)15:19
faenil+ fdupes -q -n -r /home/abuild/rpmbuild/BUILDROOT/qt5-qtquickcontrols-5.1.0-1.1.3.i386//usr/include15:21
faenilis the double slash ok?15:21
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sledgeSimyup, it's in the succeeded one too15:22
faenilyes but it returns error there as well15:22
sledgeSimi just think that splitting (gutting out) a qt5 sub-project from existing one is why it's failing15:22
sledgeSimbut carries on15:22
sledgeSimin my case, it bombs right after from find command15:23
faenilok but.. :)15:23
sledgeSimin find-debug info15:23
faeniland which folder do you have instead?15:23
sledgeSimwhen i build locally with mb the '/home/abuild/rpmbuild/BUILDROOT/qt5-qtquickcontrols-examples-5.1.0-1.7.1.i386' folder is empty15:24
sledgeSimmaybe i need to get rid of debug info creation..15:24
sledgeSimas there'd be none15:24
faenil:/15:24
faenilbrb15:24
sledgeSimk15:24
sledgeSimok i got it15:26
sledgeSimit does install15:26
sledgeSimbut i never see an install command invoked15:26
sledgeSimso ofc that folder is empty15:27
faenilback15:31
faenilwhat did you change?15:31
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sledgeSimnothing15:31
sledgeSimthis qmake5_install just automagically decides what to install15:32
sledgeSimfrom .pro files15:32
faenilyeah ofc15:32
sledgeSimbut not in my case15:32
sledgeSimeven when layout structure and contents of all .pro files is nearly the same15:32
sledgeSimnow im looking into the "nearly" part ;)15:32
faenil:D15:33
sledgeSimgenerated Makefiles look different (when it comes to install rules)15:34
sledgeSimbut they are generated from analogical .pro bits!15:34
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sledgeSim:{}15:34
sledgeSim:)15:34
faenilxD15:34
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faenilsledgeSim, why are you putting -examples in a separate package though?15:43
faenilalso...why are you adding all files from bin directory in the %files section?15:46
sledgeSimfound it15:47
sledgeSimbecause we will be changing examples contents15:47
sledgeSimlike qtquick.controls into glacier.controls15:47
faenilbut still, why not making it a subpackage of qtquickcontrols15:48
sledgeSimfound the problem faenil15:48
faenilsledgeSim, I guess it was %files section15:48
sledgeSimbecause we don't want to break integrity15:48
sledgeSimof qtquickcontrols upstream15:48
sledgeSimwe will also adding all non-demoed controls15:48
sledgeSimi will rename the package too15:48
faenilintegrity?15:48
sledgeSimand no it's not in %files section ;P15:48
sledgeSimwe should not modify qtquickcontrols15:49
sledgeSimit's not ours ;P15:49
faenilok, but it's about packaging here...15:49
faenilam I not free to package it however I want? :D15:49
sledgeSimqtquickcontrols will be in mer:qt:devel15:50
faeniloh ok, so that's just a temporary name for glacier controls, ok15:50
sledgeSimno need to poison that with nemo glacier stuffs15:50
sledgeSimyes15:50
faenilyeah agree15:50
sledgeSimnot controls15:50
faenilwhat was the problem?15:50
sledgeSimglacier gallery; )15:50
faenilyea15:50
sledgeSimok15:50
sledgeSimso15:50
* sledgeSim pulls out couple of gray hairs15:50
sledgeSimthis has to be in .pro file: TARGETPATH = QtQuick/Controls15:51
sledgeSimif TARGETPATH is not set15:51
sledgeSim(like in all examples subdirs)15:51
sledgeSimmeans they are never installed anywhere :D15:51
faenil:)15:51
faenilI still find the %files section weird :P15:51
faenilisn't that to say which files will be uninstalled when you uninstall the app?15:52
sledgeSimoh that one i never thought about :P15:52
faenilthat way you delete everything xD15:52
sledgeSimjust had to put something in instead of qtcontrols bits and worry about it later15:52
sledgeSimi.e. now :)15:52
faenilok xD15:52
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specialfaenil: have you tested https://github.com/special/qmlmessages/tree/qt5 by any chance?15:58
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faenilspecial, nope not yet why?15:59
specialiirc the only reason it wasn't mergeable was removing the qmlcontacts code15:59
faenilspecial, Novomok guys said they also had their Qt5 version of qmlmessages and qmlcontacts15:59
faenilso I wasn't caring about those two packages16:00
faenilthey said they'll send PR next week16:00
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faenilspecial, so I'd say it's not worth getting rid of qmlcontacts code as they ported that as well16:02
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faenilspecial, ping16:19
specialpong16:19
faenilspecial, quick qml question: is item.contains(-100, -100) supposed to return false16:19
faenil?16:19
faenilsupposing item is just a rectangle :P16:20
specialyes, I'd expect so16:20
faenilok16:20
specialany negative number should, because item coordinates start with 0,0 at top left16:20
faenilI can't get it to get to false, I move the mouse around the screen and it's still always false16:20
faenilspecial, yeah16:20
faenilstill always true*16:20
specialdid you try item.contains(Qt.point(-100, -100))?16:21
faenilnope, let's see16:21
faenilspecial, that did it :)16:24
faenilspecial, I would have expected "var mappedPoint = item.mapFromItem(...); item.contains(mappedPoint)" to work correctly :(16:24
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faenilor even item.contains(mappedPoint.x, mappedPoint.y)16:25
faenilnot the second maybe16:25
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faenilWWDrakey, do you know if qmlcontacts and qmlmessages are working already (apart from booster issues)? (cc: special )16:29
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faenilbbl17:24
sledgeSimcyal17:24
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loinhi guys!18:08
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sledgeSimhi loin !18:17
loinhow's it going sledgeSim ?18:17
sledgeSimvery good, intense awsome work :)18:17
sledgeSimwhat about you)18:17
sledgeSim?18:17
loinnot so well, my friend, not so well18:17
loinwhat intense awsome work are you talking about?18:17
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sledgeSimnemo transition to qt5+wayland and glacier UI18:18
loinis it fully functional?18:18
sledgeSimthe transition? yes :D18:19
sledgeSimthe nemo? no :))18:19
loinwhy isn't the nemo working?18:20
sledgeSimbecause it is in transition18:20
sledgeSimnemo latest stable images and testing repository are in working state though18:20
loinsledgeSim, can i install it on my n9?18:21
sledgeSimyes, you can install old nemo on n918:21
sledgeSimold means x11/qt418:21
loinsledgeSim, is the new one faster?18:22
sledgeSimthe new one will be better on all imaginable levels :)18:22
sledgeSimhardware accelerated (built-in qt5 egl rendering engine), faster apps (thanks to other qt5 goodies), faster graphics (thanks to wayland), nice UI looks (thanks to glacier UI)18:23
sledgeSimwhat are you looking for in nemo at the moment loin18:23
sledgeSim?18:23
loinsledgeSim, i'm not sure18:24
loini have a n9 which is pretty much useless to me18:24
loini want to find a way to get some use out of it18:24
sledgeSimdo you want to use n9 as a full fledged daily smartphone?18:24
sledgeSimor just a linux hacker's paradise?18:24
sledgeSim:)18:24
loin2, please18:25
loini won't use it as a phone, it'd love to use it as a "server" to run some java apps on it and connect from other devices18:25
sledgeSimnemo currently is for the 218:25
sledgeSim:)18:25
sledgeSiminteresting18:25
sledgeSimwell, if you will want to make receive a call to java server, you will be able to do that as well :D18:25
sledgeSimso you need to start from here: https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Nemo/Installing#Nokia_N918:26
sledgeSimgrab the release image (not the snapshot) and you're good to go18:26
loinreceive a call as in remote procedure call or in actual phone call18:26
sledgeSimwith ther rest18:26
sledgeSimactual phone call :)18:26
loinDISCLAIMER: These instructions are provided without any warranty what so ever and will break the warranty of your device18:26
sledgeSimrpc are surely working if your java server supports it once deployed on n9 :D18:26
loinis it 100% fact that it'll void the warranty?18:26
sledgeSimloin, 19:24 < sledgeSim> or just a linux hacker's paradise?18:26
sledgeSim;)18:26
sledgeSimthis phrase is a brother of that disclaimer :)18:26
loinjust asking18:27
loinit's not like i'll ever use my n9 again18:27
sledgeSimeven if you completely go wrong18:27
sledgeSimreflashing will bring your n9 back to work18:27
sledgeSimi never heard anyone truly bricking it18:27
sledgeSimunless using another brick..18:27
loinsledgeSim, n9 is n900?18:28
sledgeSimnope18:29
loinwhich image do i need then18:29
loinhttp://releases.nemomobile.org/releases/latest/images/18:29
sledgeSimn95018:29
loinsledgeSim, do you own a n9?18:33
sledgeSimyes18:33
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loinsledgeSim, do you think it'll explode if i always keep it plugged in?18:34
sledgeSimyes18:34
sledgeSim(joking)18:34
sledgeSimjust check if it gets hot after a week18:35
loinmy nexus 7 gets hot after like 2 hours18:35
loinsledgeSim, the instructions are kind of vague18:35
loin1. Get flasher (see N950 instructions)18:35
loincheck18:35
loin2. Get moslo18:36
loinassuming this is it http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/moslo.php18:36
loincheck18:36
loin3. get the kernel? where do i get the kernel from18:36
loinsledgeSim, is this it? nemo-armv7hl-n950-vmlinuz-2.6.32.20130129.1-n95018:38
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sledgeSimwait a sec18:39
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NeeDforKillhey all18:43
StskeepssledgeSim: tried libhybris+nemo+wayland on panda yet?18:44
Stskeepsif you still have one18:44
NeeDforKillwant ask,when avalible new nemo image?18:44
NeeDforKillcuz my problem,after updating from zypper,voicecalls,keyboards,msg not working18:45
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NeeDforKillon 0.20130620.0.1 realease18:45
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sledgeSimloin, choose which method you want - i tried single boot18:46
sledgeSimor you can install ubiboot18:46
sledgeSimthat one guaranteed to work: http://wiki.maemo.org/Ubiboot18:46
NeeDforKillyeah ubiboot work 100%18:47
NeeDforKillsledge18:47
sledgeSimStskeeps, nope, don't know wayland driver state with current port; and never touched libhybris18:47
sledgeSimNeeDforKill, don't update rnd:devel anymore, nemo is dragons there18:48
sledgeSimstay on testing. no eta for new image18:48
NeeDforKillrnd:devel ,cuz all apps start ot porting to qt5?18:49
sledgeSimthere yes18:49
StskeepssledgeSim: you so should .. grab jellybean for pandaboard18:49
NeeDforKillwho need crapdroid :D18:50
StskeepsNeeDforKill: their drivers18:50
loinsledgeSim, i take it it's normal to bootloop with the warranty information thing ?18:50
NeeDforKillyeah only drivers18:51
sledgeSimloin, yes that will pop up18:51
sledgeSimStskeeps, what about going straight for wayland driver in current port18:51
loinsledgeSim, its not just popping up, it's bootlooping18:51
sledgeSimavoid libhybris altogether18:51
sledgeSimloin, ?18:51
StskeepssledgeSim: not really likely to happen18:51
Stskeepsrob clark moved to redhat18:51
loinsledgeSim, it just goes on and off18:52
sledgeSimafter what?18:53
sledgeSimok that is if wayland driver is no good18:53
sledgeSim*current18:53
loinsledgeSim, al@albuntu:~/mer$ sudo flasher -a /home/stuff/binary/harmattan/BACKUP/DFL61_HARMATTAN_40.2012.21-3_PR_LEGACY_006-OEM1-958_ARM.bin -k ./usr/share/moslo/zImage-moslo -f18:53
lointhe guide says i should see  You will see warning about warranty and after that green text that should say that device is repartitioning for the alternative os.18:54
loinbut i don't get the green text18:54
loini just get the bootloops18:54
sledgeSimloin, i recommend ubiboot tutorial18:58
loinsledgeSim, i did the single boot thing and i get the greentext now18:59
sledgeSimwell there ya go :)18:59
sledgeSimi have single boot18:59
sledgeSimevery time i reboot, i need a cable :) i know a nightmare, but i managed19:00
loinsledgeSim, that doesn't sound very nice19:01
loinis that what single boot is all about?19:01
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sledgeSimexactly19:03
sledgeSimnon persisten single boot19:03
sledgeSimyou can try as a dry-run19:03
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loinsledgeSim, so what do i do after i loaded in and stuff?19:05
loinsledgeSim, how do i start it19:05
sledgeSimit will start itself :)19:05
loinsledgeSim, not happening19:05
loinsudo tar --numeric-owner -xf nemo-handset-armv7hl-n950-*.tar.bz2 -C /media/Alt_OS/19:05
loinsudo umount /media/Alt_OS19:06
lointhats it right?19:06
sledgeSimyes19:06
loinwell, it's not happening19:07
loini just get bootloops again19:07
sledgeSimdid you have alt_os exported nice?19:07
loinreading from the guide19:08
loinNext thing is to move the rootfs to the device with Nokia N950 & Nokia N9 Rootfs Installation guide.19:08
loinAfter this is done disconnect the USB cable and press volumedown key when asked whether to boot to Alternate OS or to Harmattan. In subsequent boots, device will boot directly to Harmattan. To get Alternate OS booting you need to run the above flasher command again.19:08
sledgeSimyes19:08
loinnothing about exportin19:08
sledgeSimAlt_OS should appear19:08
sledgeSimwhen green screen is on19:08
loini extracted everything19:08
lointo alt_os19:08
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loinsledgeSim, anything else required on my part?19:10
sledgeSimhow long did it last?19:11
sledgeSimi use this command (please adjust paths):19:11
sledgeSimsequence is:19:11
sledgeSimpower off n9 completely19:11
sledgeSimexecute this command19:11
sledgeSimsudo modprobe -r cdc_phonet; sudo ../flasher -k usr/share/moslo/zImage-moslo -n usr/share/moslo/initrd-moslo -l -b19:11
sledgeSimthen plug usb into your host19:12
sledgeSimand then plug usb into n919:12
sledgeSimwill work like charm :)19:12
loinshould i get weird colors as a bootanimation?19:13
loinwell i did manage to get it running19:14
sledgeSimyes19:15
loini can't say i approve the speed side of things\19:15
sledgeSimhalucinogenic colours is ok19:15
sledgeSimlet it settle19:15
sledgeSimbut app launching time is qt4 problem19:15
sledgeSimonce it's up, it's fine19:15
loinstrange swipe ui imitation19:16
sledgeSimlocusf,19:16
sledgeSimnemo-armv7hl-n950-vmlinuz-2.6.32.20130129.1-n95019:16
sledgeSimyou used this?19:16
sledgeSimsorry i overlooked19:16
sledgeSimit's fine though19:16
loini have to say19:16
loinwhen no apps are running19:16
lointhis thing is quite smooth19:16
sledgeSim:))19:16
sledgeSimwell, happy testing19:17
sledgeSimwith wayland it will be buttered (droid reference lol)19:17
loinhow long till the wayland qt5 edition?19:17
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loinif the app loading wasn't so bad this'd be so awesome19:18
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sledgeSimit will be19:19
sledgeSimwe already had feedback, qt5 app launch times are awesome19:20
loinany way i could get involved in this thing?19:20
loini have no clue how wayland or qt works19:20
loinbut i'm a very good java programmer if that makes any difference19:20
sledgeSimsure!19:23
sledgeSimfirst you need to warm up19:23
sledgeSimyou can take wayland VM virtualbox image19:23
sledgeSimwhich we are working on atm19:23
sledgeSimand play there19:23
locusfsledgeSim: what?19:23
sledgeSimit will be lots of apps bugfixing waiting, and ui porting19:24
locusfsledgeSim: n9 kernel?19:24
sledgeSimyes19:24
sledgeSimanother bit19:25
sledgeSimneeds updating19:25
sledgeSimif you are good in porting kernels19:25
loinsledgeSim, sounds like a plan19:25
locusfhmm19:25
locusfI don't remember where19:25
locusfhttps://github.com/ruedigergad/nemo-n9-blobs/blob/master/zImage-kernel-moslo-n919:26
locusfthats what I'm using19:26
locusfthe kernel in wiki results to boot loop19:27
locusfand I'm not much a kernel guy :/19:27
sledgeSimbrilliant thanks19:27
sledgeSimyou're not the first to say that19:27
sledgeSimloin, which plan sounds good to you? ;)19:27
loingetting the vm virtualbox image and checking stuff out19:29
loinsledgeSim, i'm definitely interesting in seeing if i can do something of use here19:29
loinsomerhing useful that is19:30
loinsledgeSim, it probably won't happen any time soon since i'm stuck with two other projects at the moment19:30
loinbut i'm definitely interested19:30
sledgeSimhttps://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Wayland_Nemo_VM_Image19:31
sledgeSimwhenever you want to start ^19:31
sledgeSim;)19:31
loinbookmarked19:31
sledgeSimim off home, ttyl! thanks a lot for showing interest!19:31
lointhanks for all the help sledgeSim19:32
loinlaters19:32
sledgeSim:)19:32
sledgeSimyw19:32
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Morpog_Got some views done. Not sure if it's worth doing more stuff yet. Maybe you guys can have a look. faenil sledgeSim Hurrian qwazix20:51
Morpog_http://abload.de/img/browser-main-ui1ro3c.png20:51
sledgeSimmy 2p: I like your layout/settings/tabs ideas20:57
sledgeSimbut i prefer the look of glacier20:57
sledgeSimthe url bar is shading transparent towards its bottom20:57
sledgeSimand keep arrow (back/forward/stop) buttons minimalistic so it's uniform with the rest of glacier (see its other navigation screen on apps)21:00
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Morpog_sledgesim, nope, it's not getting transparent to bottom, it's totally 50% transparent in glacier UI21:04
sledgeSimah ok, so that one :)21:05
Morpog_I could do that easily too, there is just nothing behind it :)21:05
sledgeSimthe webpage would be21:05
sledgeSimas url bar tends not to linger around there for too long21:05
Morpog_that doesn't work with the idea that scrolling up/down shows and hides urlbar21:06
sledgeSimwhy not?21:06
sledgeSimurl bar disappears soon after page is loaded. you scroll down and bar pops up21:06
sledgeSimlike a tinted glass21:07
sledgeSim(pops down :))21:07
Morpog_hmm could work, but could feel weird.21:07
Morpog_well, that easy to change gave me some minutes21:08
sledgeSimmaybe weird, maybe differentiating nemo amongst others ;)21:08
Morpog_sledgeSim, urlbar 59% transparent like on Hurrian mockup only looks good on black websites like he used tehre :)21:16
Morpog_50%21:16
Morpog_90% would look ok, but I still prefer plain black :)21:17
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sledgeSiminterestong :)21:27
sledgeSimis because you cant see the white font ;)21:28
sledgeSimcould be worked around with black outline around on the font21:28
Morpog_believe me, it's ugly as hell :)21:28
Morpog_can show you a sample21:28
sledgeSimi believe you :)21:28
sledgeSimbut also interested to see21:28
Morpog_will do a final pic with 50 and 90%21:29
sledgeSimk thank you21:30
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Morpog_sledgeSim, also it's not blured behind, dunno if that could be done in realtime21:36
sledgeSimwe'll pre-blurr it21:37
sledgeSimqwazix knows sometricks remember him saying you can fade blurred image over normal - realtime blurring faker ;)21:38
specialyou might be able to get reasonable performance with a decently written blurring shader.21:39
specialespecially on post-n9 hardware21:39
sledgeSimMorpog_, behind = wallpaper in your case? :)21:41
sledgeSimif so, my phrase applies21:41
sledgeSimif not - special's :)21:41
Morpog_no, website21:41
Morpog_well, i can preblur it of course, but if that will work later well I doubt :)21:42
sledgeSimsorry, i missed the necessity to ever blur that21:42
Morpog_brrr, 50% is disgusting without blur21:43
sledgeSimbehind url bar is blurred?21:43
sledgeSimah got you21:43
Morpog_uploading21:44
sledgeSimta21:44
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Morpog_50% http://abload.de/img/preview-50percenthiq7k.png21:44
Morpog_90% http://abload.de/img/preview-90percentosp79.png21:44
Morpog_and 100% http://abload.de/img/preview-100percentkhjpk.png21:50
Morpog_Do you like the navigation buttons more now more?21:50
NeeDforKilllooks nice21:52
NeeDforKillwhat is this?21:52
Morpog_Mockup for Nemo Browser (icefox?) on Glacier UI21:53
sledgeSimsorry my lappy battery died :)21:57
sledgeSimMorpog_, I see what you mean21:58
sledgeSimbut i meant only the url bar is transparent21:58
sledgeSimlike in the glacier mockup21:58
Morpog_well, even with that it looks ugly, doesn't it?21:59
sledgeSimit doesn't look like in mockup21:59
Morpog_it looks fine on dark backgrounds21:59
sledgeSimit has opaque background where text is21:59
sledgeSimso i see a gray rectangle in the url bar :)21:59
sledgeSimcannot assess uglyness if there is one :)21:59
Morpog_wait, I put same background in glacier UI, then u see :)22:00
sledgeSimokedoke :))22:00
sledgeSimmaybe 66-74% transparency could do22:01
sledgeSim90 too much imho22:01
sledgeSim50=ugly22:01
Morpog_http://abload.de/img/unbenanntm6p8i.jpg22:03
Morpog_it starts to look good around 85%22:04
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Morpog_see how well it looks? :)22:05
Morpog_and thats glacier with 90% http://abload.de/img/unbenannt3ej35.jpg22:07
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sledgeSimare you being sarcastic about 'well'? ;D22:09
Morpog_nah, just showing it ;)22:09
sledgeSimi think it looks fine22:09
sledgeSimyet again im not a designer :)22:09
Morpog_with 50% or with 90%?22:09
sledgeSimps maemo header is dark ;)22:09
Morpog_yep, imagine google :)22:10
sledgeSim->90% does the trick ok22:10
Morpog_I apreciate your critics22:11
sledgeSimcheers, you now need 2nd opinions :)22:11
sledgeSimwe'll see when the crew ;) wakes up tomorrow22:12
sledgeSimthanks for your time!22:12
Morpog_yeah, that overlapping menu doesn't fit I still think22:12
sledgeSimeager to hear from Hurrian but he's busy..22:12
Morpog_btw, is the urlbar navigation buttons better now?22:12
sledgeSimas he created it22:12
sledgeSimyes they are22:13
sledgeSimi'd still get rid of the gray opaque rectangle :}22:13
sledgeSimin http://abload.de/img/preview-90percentosp79.png22:13
Morpog_which?22:13
Morpog_ah, hmm, then it's plain black and flat, those rectangles are the as hurrian used for the speech bubbles22:15
sledgeSimyes, plain black and flat :)22:19
sledgeSimas ~85% of that url bar is that url text input itself22:19
sledgeSimbubbles need boundaries, so he rectangled those22:20
Morpog_well, you need to know where to touch to enter text, or?22:21
sledgeSimanywhere22:21
sledgeSimas back/forth/stop buttons are on the outskirts22:21
sledgeSimso anywhere between them22:21
Morpog_hmm22:23
Morpog_not sure bout that22:23
sledgeSimplease disagree :)22:24
Morpog_lol22:24
Morpog_a nice thing of this rectangles is that you show that they are active atm or not by highlight color22:24
Morpog_editing that atm22:24
sledgeSimediting is shown by cursor, and if there is no hw kbd, by kbd popup22:25
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sledgeSimand probably initially qt will not allow a nice transparent text input box in editing mode :) so i see where you are coming from22:28
Morpog_damn photoshop just crashed :(22:36
sledgeSimyeap, heavy beast this ui thing22:37
Morpog_i love autosave feature :)22:37
sledgeSim:))22:37
sledgeSimwhen it is not the cause of the crash :D22:38
Morpog_lol22:38
sledgeSimwhich photoshop version are you using?22:38
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Morpog_cs622:43
sledgeSimi see22:44
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Morpog_btw without rectangle does look ok, but I prefer it with :)22:45
sledgeSim:D22:47
sledgeSimi believe the best argument is when you explain why you think so22:48
Morpog_it doesn't feel empty :)22:48
Morpog_can do 2 compare pics with final edits today, after that i get to sleep too22:48
sledgeSimi think best to ask creators Hurrian & qwazix, they'll explain the guidelines and evaluate our points22:49
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sledgeSimnite, soz im switchin off lol22:54
Morpog_ok sleep well22:54
sledgeSimta u222:55
Morpog_5 seconds, lol22:55
Morpog_http://abload.de/img/preview23r0x.png22:56
Morpog_http://abload.de/img/preview-withoutulqfi.png22:56
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qwazixMorpog_, nice work there23:03
Morpog_thx23:03
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qwazixI prefer the pure black version23:03
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faenilsledgeSim, good night23:03
qwazixWebsites are 90% of the time text, and putting text over text even with  90% transparency just harms readability23:04
Morpog_and what do you think about transparency like sledgeSim wanted?23:04
Morpog_ah ok :)23:04
faenilqwazix, hey o/ how you doing mate23:04
Morpog_so the pure black was refered to the opacity23:04
qwazixIt will rarely be beautiful (unless you're looking at a picture gallery) and there's no usability gain by reminding the user in what page he was23:04
Morpog_and in the last 2 pics do you prefer a URLB bar with that rectangle or without?23:05
qwazixfaenil, what's up!23:05
Morpog_qwazix, yeah that was my concern too23:05
qwazixfaenil, I changed carrier and guess what? BB10 update :P23:05
faenilqwazix, ehehe :P23:05
qwazixMorpog_, that said, 90% looks good23:05
Morpog_with rectangle http://abload.de/img/preview23r0x.png and without rectangle http://abload.de/img/preview-withoutulqfi.png23:06
qwazixI still prefer the black one though23:06
Morpog_oh i see you still read backlog :)23:06
qwazixwithout23:07
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qwazixand certainly without rounder corners :P23:07
Morpog_round corners?23:08
Morpog_ah the round buttons? those were basically your breeze icons :)23:09
Morpog_so I choose 100% black and no rectangles23:10
qwazixyeah, but they don't fit there23:10
faenilqwazix, what is the situation with qtquickcontrols styling and extra controls planning?23:10
qwazixwe should ask Hurrian for input too23:10
faenilor even apps mockups23:10
Morpog_qwazix, sure23:10
qwazixfaenil, I didn't do anything yet, but Morpog_ here is doing a good job23:10
faenilqwazix, I see, ok23:11
qwazixHurrian also has cut up Glacier into pieces23:11
faenilqwazix, we're very close to the point where we need you graphics artists the most23:11
qwazixfaenil, :nod:23:11
qwazixwe have to solve some of the patterns Hurrian has not yet touched23:12
qwazix(like context menus)23:12
Morpog_the dark harmmatan ones aren't that bad, with glacier style of course23:13
qwazixbtw regarding blurring (I see it was discussed in the log) while I like it, however powerful chipset, is eating up processing power just when you need it most, and I'd say we should avoid it23:13
Morpog_also the pure black stype saves energy on amoled displays23:14
qwazixMorpog_, what would you say if we put the context menus on the top of the screen?23:14
faenilqwazix, I see...well, we're on your back now :D23:14
qwazixwhen you long-tap, the menu as it is in harmattan appears under your thumb23:15
qwazixI think it would be more usable if it appeared from the top. We don't have a status menu anyway in Glacier to confuse it with23:15
qwazixfaenil, I'll try my best23:16
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faenilqwazix, I'm sure you will ;)23:16
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faenilgood night people! See you tomorrow23:17
Morpog_qwazix, but then you need to stretch your thumb for top options?23:17
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Morpog_night faenil23:18
qwazixMorpog_, hmm, there's that too, and screens are getting bigger23:18
qwazixnight faenil23:18
Morpog_well, every browser has the same problem :)23:18
qwazixMorpog_, BB10 has the urlbar at the bottom23:19
qwazixthough this breaks the swipe-hide thingie23:19
Morpog_hmm23:19
qwazix(microB too)23:19
Morpog_well, hurrian has back button top left23:20
qwazixyeah me too23:20
qwazixVenemo was objecting but I can't find a better place23:20
Morpog_so we can't avoid thumb strecthcing23:20
qwazixbottom left means we need to waste a whole toolbar just for the back button in many apps23:21
qwazixvery apparent in harmattan23:21
Morpog_thats a waste of screen space23:21
Morpog_sailfishos is clever here, but has problems with large canvas apps I guess23:21
qwazixsailfish hasn't convinced me yet with neither pulley nor back-swiping23:22
qwazixboth very clever ideas, but both don't work 100%23:22
qwazix*in 100% of cases23:22
Morpog_I think it will be great for one hand use23:23
qwazixand inconsistency is worse than a little waste of space or a bit more clutter23:23
Morpog_well, we will see if they can avoid that by clever design23:23
qwazixI mean imagine you're reading the 200th tweet and need to do something in the pulley23:24
Morpog_hehe23:24
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qwazixOr that you have to show a context-menu in a grid like interface23:24
qwazixOr you have to swipe back while in a maps view23:25
Morpog_stuff like tabs that jump you to top could work, like tweetian does23:25
qwazixand then you lost your position23:25
Morpog_well, we will see when they release or do some preview videos in front of launch23:26
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qwazixyeah,23:27
Morpog_we could try a top context menu23:28
qwazixI was thinking another solution for the big-screen devices23:28
Morpog_maybe I'm gonna give it a try tomorrow23:28
Morpog_middle popup menu?23:28
qwazixMaybe all lists could scroll down a bit more than normal, and leave some space up the top23:29
Morpog_then you have to scroll also on small lists?23:30
qwazixI mean scroll down until the first item is in the middle of the screen, or at 1/323:30
qwazixno, the list appears as normal, but if you pull it down up to half a screen it doesn't bounce back23:31
qwazixso that you can click the first item easily23:31
Morpog_sounds irritating to use23:32
qwazixthink so?23:32
Morpog_well, such a thing is nowhere lese used23:33
Morpog_else23:33
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qwazixwell, we should innovate shouldn't we?23:33
Morpog_and wouldn't something like a 3d roll work better?23:33
qwazixmaybe the view can click into place when it's near the edge of the screen, so that you don't have to carefully position it, and if you pull hard enough it can go anywhere you want it. BB10 for example has an option to enable pinch to zoom anywhere for accessibility reasons23:34
qwazix3d roll?23:34
Morpog_like a toilet paper roll23:35
Morpog_where you see 3 to 4 items23:36
qwazixYou lost me there23:36
Morpog_lol23:36
Morpog_and you can roll it uo and down23:36
Morpog_up23:36
qwazixyou mean to wrap around?23:36
Morpog_yeah23:36
qwazixhmm...23:37
qwazixit sounds very good for non-infinite lists23:37
qwazixand then you could for example reach the Z contacts with just a small downward swipe23:38
Morpog_a bit like hurrians date selector, just smaller23:38
qwazixIt could work for full screen lists too, just roll indefinitely23:39
qwazixit allows you to bring any one item just under your thumb to click it, and allows quick access to the bottom half of the list23:40
qwazix(on a sidenote I strongly object to that timepicker)23:40
Morpog_most used options should beplaced that you don't need to scroll the toilet roll at all23:41
qwazixlet's invent a better name for this interaction shall we? :P23:41
Morpog_It could be a running gag ,)23:41
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qwazixI can already imagine the qml23:42
qwazixToiletRoll { id: upperFloor; used: true }23:43
Morpog_every coder would have a msile in his face while doing nemo apps :)23:43
qwazixmissile?23:44
qwazix:P23:44
Morpog_a smile :)23:44
Morpog_getting late here :)23:44
qwazixhere too.  almost 3AM23:45
Morpog_context barrel sounds better23:45
Morpog_or context scroll23:46
Morpog_context roller23:46
qwazixContentRoller23:47
Morpog_sounds good too23:48
qwazixso that it can be used as context menu and as a full screen roller too23:48
Morpog_going to bed now, falling asleep here....23:48
qwazixhave a nice night!23:48
Morpog_same for you, thx23:48

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