Thursday, 2013-08-15

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sledgeSimg_morning05:49
Stskeepsmorn sledgeSim05:49
StskeepssledgeSim: wasn't being sarcastic on the pandaboard and libhybris; wayland is unlikely to really ever come there :P05:50
sledgeSiminteresting ideas! still context menu in a contentroll definition a bit blurry05:50
sledgeSimStskeeps, understood that05:50
sledgeSimbut the amount of onterest pamda gained half year ago took the wind out of my sales05:51
Stskeeps:nod:05:51
Stskeepstrying to see who can get some knowledge in using libhybris so05:51
sledgeSimand now i dedicate time for other rip roaring developmemt :)05:51
sledgeSimlol youre passing on the knowhow :)05:52
Stskeeps:nod:05:52
sledgeSimerm i got n4 here05:52
sledgeSimactually yyping from it05:53
sledgeSim(how ironic-typo in word typing)05:53
Stskeepsnexus 4? also good05:53
sledgeSimyup, need to finish soldering uart ftdi breakout cable05:54
sledgeSimzmc picked that up last time05:55
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sledgeSimdm8tbr started ;)05:56
* sledgeSim imagines a pre-coffee dm8tbr roaring from pings somewhere atm05:57
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* sledgeSim goes back to sleep, doesnt do mor.ings lol 7am here06:00
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* Stskeeps passes dm8tbr the coffee06:38
dm8tbrthanks *slurp*06:38
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drachensunstskeeps: thanks for the tips earlier, I've got the nemo root setup now08:02
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Stskeepscool08:04
drachensunthe next step is to build libhybris right? where should I get libhybris from?08:06
drachensunI didn't see it in the nemo repo08:06
drachensunor should I just get it straight from https://github.com/libhybris/libhybris08:07
Stskeepsjust clone straight from there08:09
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tablettehi. I'd like to try nemo on my cheap china tablet. I've got u-boot source, kernel-source, android-source. I compiled a custom kernel and got it booted. That's pretty much the best I can do. How to start?09:46
faeniltablette, https://github.com/libhybris/libhybris09:47
faenilStskeeps, ^09:47
Stskeepstablette: android ICS or JB?09:47
tabletteStskeeps: I think it's JB source.09:48
Stskeepstablette: got framebuffer console or the likes?09:49
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tabletteStskeeps: can you specify the question?09:50
Stskeepstablette: ok, so, if you're able to see kernel boot messages for example09:50
tabletteI got a debian image booting, includeing all logs and frambuffer console. I didn't try much of android source because I haven't looked into how android is build.09:52
tabletteStskeeps: ^09:52
Stskeepsokie then09:52
Stskeepstablette: http://phablet.ubuntu.com/gitweb?p=CyanogenMod/android_bionic.git;a=patch;h=8faa5a287f4da05070eb1c16ca651bffd9d48e36 - apply this to your android source tree and build an android image09:53
kjokinieAard: w00t: chriadam|away: https://github.com/nemomobile/ngfd/pull/1609:54
tabletteStskeeps: okay, that's the worst case scenario unfolding before me... ah, allright I look into how Android is build because I have no Idea where to start.09:56
Stskeepstablette: http://www.jayway.com/2012/10/05/setting-up-a-chroot-for-android-platform-development/ is very useful09:56
tabletteStskeeps: okay, seems like I could do that.09:58
Stskeepstablette: this yields you a android build tree you then can use with libhybris later to get GPU acceleration etc09:58
tabletteStskeeps: okay, just looked at the sources. It's actually ICS but there is a unofficial Cyanogenmod port for my tablet.10:00
Stskeepsokay10:01
tablettecyanogenmod would be JB.10:01
Stskeepsperhaps better to use the cyanogenmod then, i would recommend flashing the end result to test it10:01
tabletteStskeeps: this is the source, just posting for info https://github.com/christiantroy/android_device_ainol_elf210:04
Stskeepsok10:04
tabletteI'll check back when I got it. I expect it will take a few hours, days maybe.10:05
Stskeepsyep10:05
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faenillocusf, ping10:09
faenillocusf, have you tested OBS building before making PRs?10:09
locusffaenil: nope, only mb10:10
faenillocusf, I think you should do that, just to be sure you're not forgetting dependencies and the likes10:10
locusffaenil: ok will do10:11
faenillocusf, I will setup a webhook for you, it will do everything automagically, though you have to set the webhook URL in your repos settings10:11
faeniljust that10:11
locusffaenil: is there a wiki page for this?10:14
faenillocusf, https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Nemo/Development#With_tar_git_service10:15
faenilat least one commit per release must have [tag] prefix10:15
faenilbasically, you set URL in github repo webhook settings, then I create the webhook for you, then you tag a new release on github...and the rest happens magically10:16
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locusffaenil: ok10:17
faenillocusf, but you have to make sure you have one tagged commit per release :)10:17
faenilso, you'll need some --amend :P10:17
locusfI did make them10:18
locusfw00t told me to10:18
locusfI used rebase -i10:18
faenillocusf, not in qmlmail? (or I missed them)10:18
locusffaenil: not qmailmail yes, I have yet to port it as I can't test it yet10:19
locusfsee wiki10:19
faenillocusf, yeah I've read already10:19
locusfok10:19
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Hurrian:o10:31
Hurrianthe first Glacierified app!10:31
Stskeepsoh?10:31
HurrianStskeeps: the browser mockup!10:31
Stskeepsah10:32
locusffaenil, what will be the webhook target repo?10:36
locusfor project that is10:36
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sledgeSimHurrian, what do you think of its looks? the url bar mainly10:42
HurriansledgeSim: icons should be flat white, progress bar should be white, otherwise, I'm cool with it.10:43
HurrianHow would the tab list be brought up?10:43
sledgeSimHurrian, from this: http://abload.de/img/preview-withoutulqfi.png ?10:43
sledgeSimdon't know yet the navigational aspects, tbd10:43
Hurrianyep, looking at that10:43
HurrianDo I pull down, or press the three-stripe button?10:43
sledgeSimthat was my first10:43
sledgeSimquestion to Morpog_PC as well lol10:43
sledgeSimwhich I didn't ask :D10:43
sledgeSimwe were discussing looks first mainly10:44
HurrianFor system apps, I'd like their settings to be placed in the Settings app.10:44
HurrianThen we can expose an API to load settings panes into it, if the devs target us specifically.10:44
HurrianDigging around per-app for settings isn't my thing.10:44
HurrianOther notes:10:45
HurrianDo people want the URL to be there in the navbar, or do people want the page title there, with the URL editable when you press it?10:46
sledgeSimHurrian, point note taken10:46
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sledgeSimHurrian, 00:04 < qwazix> It will rarely be beautiful (unless you're looking at a picture gallery) and there's no usability gain by reminding the user in what page he was10:53
sledgeSimalso Hurrian what do you think about transparency of url bar?10:53
sledgeSimhttp://abload.de/img/preview-90percentosp79.png10:53
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sledgeSimfor mere mortals - page name in url bar is better. for geeks - the -end part- of url is better :D10:59
HurriansledgeSim: mmm, understandable.11:03
HurrianURL bar transparency isn't very important - not like it'll always be in view11:04
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Hurrianif transparency hurts usability, no harm in taking it out.11:04
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faenillocusf, well, I'd like to create webhook for all the ports11:42
faenillet me know when you've set the URL and on which repos11:42
locusffaenil: url to what?11:47
faenilwebhook11:47
faenilon github repos settings11:47
locusfok, whats the webhook url then?11:48
faenilread on the wiki link I sent you11:48
locusfah you don't have m yet11:48
faenil?11:50
locusfmistyped, I have a webhook url for qmlmaps now11:50
locusfI have clicked Test Hook but I don't get any visible feedback11:51
faenilnormal11:51
locusffaenil: now I have hooks for qmlmaps, qmlgallery, qmlfilemucher11:52
faenilok good11:52
locusfand qmlmusicplayer11:53
faenillocusf, now setup repositories https://build.merproject.org/project/repositories?project=home%3Alocusf11:53
locusffaenil: advanced or simple interface?11:53
faenilI'd use advanced, as I had problems with simple, WebUI on OBS is bugged11:54
faenilhere's my setup https://build.merproject.org/project/repositories?project=home%3Afaenil11:54
faenilbut you don't need all archs of course11:54
locusfok got em11:57
locusfcibot as maintainer too11:57
faenillocusf, you need i486 for the VM11:58
faeniland armv7hl, possibly, for n95011:58
locusffaenil: ok, added i486, will add armv7hl11:58
faenilok11:59
faenilonce you're done11:59
locusfok got both11:59
faenilgo to the repos on github11:59
faenilclick on test webhook (previous attempt was void because I hadn't created the webhook yet) and then tag a new release12:00
faenilon the right branch12:00
locusfok saw em on #mer-boss12:02
Morpog_PChurrian,extened meni is brought up by menu button (which is active blue there)12:02
locusffaenil: right branch?12:02
Morpog_PCHurrian, why should progress bar white? isn't active stuff all blue in your mockups?12:03
HurrianMorpog_PC, so, pressing the menu button brings up the tab list?12:03
Hurrianabout blue: valid point. Keep pressable controls blue, but animated, system UI stuff white, though.12:04
faenillocusf, well yeah, the one where the qt5 port is int o:D12:04
HurrianInactive controls should be greyish-silver, I guess.12:04
locusffaenil: ok12:04
Morpog_PCpressing it, moves urlbar down and exposes the 3 top tabs (tabs, privacy, sync). In the screenshot the tabs tab is active and shows the tablist. This area could expand more for privacy and sync. Settings button could jump you to system settings.12:05
locusffaenil: could you also put one for qmlmusicplayer?12:06
faenillocusf, sure12:07
faenillocusf, done12:08
locusffaenil: thanks12:09
faenillocusf, folderlistmodel12:09
faenilas well12:09
faenillet's create that one12:09
locusfah yes12:09
locusffaenil: all passed thus far12:10
faenilgood :)12:11
faenilso we can install those as well12:11
faenilfolderlist created as well12:11
locusfyes and building them too12:13
locusfhmm folderlist failed12:13
locusfI thought it already went too smoothly :)12:14
faenil:)12:14
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faenillocusf, I think you forgot somethign :)12:17
faenilin qmlfilemuncher you added "Requires:   nemo-qml-plugin-folderlistmodel-qt5"12:17
faenilbut then in folderlistmodel you didn't change the package name, and you're just modifying the qt4 .spec file12:17
locusffaenil: https://github.com/nemomobile/nemo-qml-plugin-folderlistmodel/pull/312:18
locusffaenil: it didn't retrigger on tag push?12:18
faenillocusf, ok, but then you have to change the Requires on filemuncher :P12:19
faeniland other packages which may require it12:19
locusffaenil: ah indeed12:19
faenilI don't know why w00t proposed to drop the postfix, since that's a standard in Nemo :/12:20
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locusffaenil: https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Nemo/Development#FAQ_2 <- what does this mean?12:21
locusfhttps://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Nemo/Development#FAQ <- this I meant12:21
faenillocusf, don't know12:21
locusffaenil: ok, since I didn't get a rebuild with new tag12:22
faenilI use github WebUI to tag :)12:22
locusffaenil: how do I retrigger build?12:22
faenilwell usually new tag works12:23
faenilbut I can retrigger from webhook UI12:23
faenilwhich package? filemuncher?12:23
locusffaenil: wait a moment12:23
locusffaenil: ok, so both filemuncher and folderlistmodel12:25
locusffaenil: thanks12:26
faenilnp12:26
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faenilfolderlist still fails12:27
locusfyeah12:27
locusfargh12:27
locusfforgot to update spec12:27
faenilforgot a pkgconfig maybe12:27
locusffaenil: does it do specify automatically then?12:28
faenilI don't know...12:28
faenilI usually do it manually12:28
faenildon't know if tar_git would do it automatically12:29
faenilanyway, you're using Qt5Declarative instead of Qt5Quick and Qt5Qml12:29
locusfyes12:29
locusf5 succeeded12:31
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faenillocusf, you forgot to change the Requires of filemuncher? :D12:34
locusfin spec yes12:35
faenildid you rebuild?12:35
locusfyes12:36
faenilI wouldn't say so :D12:36
faenilhttps://build.merproject.org/package/view_file?file=_service%3Atar_git%3Aqmlfilemuncher.spec&package=qmlfilemuncher&project=home%3Alocusf&rev=73aa4454653ceaf52cb38bbf03d49b0612:36
locusfhmm now it won't rebuild12:37
faenillocusf, are you always using the same release number?12:38
locusffaenil: yes12:38
locusfbut I always git tag -d and then git push -f --tags12:38
faenillocusf, maybe that's why (just guessing)12:38
faenilanyway12:39
faenildoesn't matter I'll trigger from webui12:39
locusfthx12:39
faenillocusf, but, why did it succeed on OBS, if you were using a non-existent Requires? :/12:40
locusffaenil: I have no clue :D12:40
faenilsomething must be providing that :/12:40
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locusfyeah12:43
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alteregoIs there anything that handles LPM currently?12:45
faenildon't know12:47
alteregoI guess getting lipstick to do something might work.12:47
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Hurrianhmm, how /is/ the display switched into Low Power Mode?12:50
Hurrianon the N9, resolution clearly goes down as it shuts down subpixels12:50
sledgeSimand colourness12:50
sledgeSimi think it falls back to 2-bit (4 colour) CGA mode :D12:51
Morpog_PCi think it's 8 to 16 colors12:58
Morpog_PCrefined browser mockup based on critics. Hurrian, qwazix, faenil, sledgeSim12:59
Morpog_PChttp://abload.de/img/previeww9unt.png12:59
locusfwow13:00
faenillooks okay to me :) I'm not a graphics artist though13:01
sledgeSimcan I say a nitpick :}13:01
jukkaeklundI fear that LPM mode is something closed stuff by Nokia..13:01
faenilnot saying it can't be improved :D13:02
sledgeSimMorpog_PC, looking good; back arrow should be taken from glacier, i.e. pure white (or the other way round - unified in short)13:02
Stskeepsyou can switch display into LPM mode in /sys13:02
Stskeepsthe magic behind it in HW, no clue13:02
faenilI'm leaving, town festival today :) see you tomorrow!13:03
sledgeSimhave funil! :))13:03
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Morpog_PCsledgesim, it is from glacier, just 75% opacity, pure white was a bit aggressive?13:04
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sledgeSimi know, it look to aggressive to me13:05
sledgeSimthat's why i added "or the other way round" ;)13:05
sledgeSimi like your opacity of back and stop and settings13:05
sledgeSimHurrian, ^ ?13:05
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Morpog_PCback stop and settings is same as back button13:05
HurriansledgeSim, Morpog_PC: looks good.13:05
Morpog_PCforward button is inactive in the shot and thus less opacity13:06
Hurrianso, pulling down on the URL bar pulls down the tab bar?13:06
sledgeSimMorpog_PC, you just said back is the same as back button ;P13:06
HurrianGood idea rounding the favicons.13:06
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Morpog_PCit's actually not whole round13:07
HurrianAlthough, one thing:13:07
sledgeSimso shall we dim the arrows in the rest of glacier Hurrian ?13:07
Morpog_PCit's a mask of webbrowser breeze icon13:07
HurrianWhy not make the site previews vertically rectangular?13:07
HurrianSimilar to the task-switcher view of the Glacier-Home.13:07
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HurriansledgeSim: dim them only when the background isn't pure black13:08
Morpog_PChurrian, it could work with pulling down, I thought it should pull down by menu button press13:09
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Morpog_PChurrian site previews = tabs?13:09
HurrianMorpog_PC: ah. it's confusing - 3 stripes means settings modal, showing tab bar should be two squares (see the iOS 5/6 icon for this)13:09
HurrianYep, site previews are as good as tabs.13:09
sledgeSimHurrian, undimmed arrow on black background is too agressive - what we just raised with Morpog_PC13:10
Morpog_PCoh ok, for settings I got that gear icon13:10
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alteregoHurrian: there's a file in sysfs that toggles LPM13:10
Hurrianalterego: ah.13:10
HurriansledgeSim: ah, well, testing it on the N9's LED screen - yep, too strong a contrast.13:11
alteregoI was thinking of having some kind of LPM plugin system. Thought it'd be nice to have navigation in LPM and other things.13:11
Morpog_PCHurrian, what do you mean by "site previews vertically rectangular"?13:11
HurrianMorpog_PC: check the task switcher view for Glacier Home13:12
sledgeSim"portrait"13:12
Hurrianyep13:12
Morpog_PChurrian, I used 75% opacity for you as a reference13:12
Morpog_PCand 25% for inactive13:12
HurrianMorpog_PC: looks good enough - not bright enough to hurt at night, but still white enough to be a control13:13
Hurrianmake sure it doesn't look like an Inactive Control13:13
Morpog_PCvertically takes alot of space wouldn't it?13:14
Hurrianmakes more room horizontally, though13:14
Hurrianand it's a "drawer", so it'll only be active when you pull up the tab view13:14
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Morpog_PCit would allow bigger previews13:15
Hurrianan overview of the site, yeah - you don't necessarily need to read the text up top in a preview13:17
Morpog_PCbtw favicons has 3 modes, big favicons get masked, no favicon gets a default gray breeze icon and small favicon gets displayed on top of a dimmed gray breeze icon13:17
HurrianLooks good. I assume the middle screen is the browser's "start screen" ?13:18
Morpog_PCno, it's the screen when you touch urlbar13:19
Hurrianah.13:19
Morpog_PCbrowser start screen would be a mix between most viewed and speed dials13:19
HurrianSpeed dials! :D13:19
Morpog_PCaren't they called like that?13:20
Hurrianyep, love the look of those.13:20
Morpog_PC:)13:20
HurrianMorpog_PC: you do know what I'm getting at with the Glacier Home multitasking view, right?13:20
Hurrianscreenshot of app, icon center-bottom, text below icon?13:20
Morpog_PCthirc screen on top13:21
Morpog_PCthird13:21
HurrianYep.13:21
Morpog_PCwait, or 2nd row 3rd?13:22
Hurrian2nd row, 3rd col13:22
Morpog_PClike harmattan?13:22
HurrianI guess a 3-site-per-row layout would be good for speed dials?13:22
HurrianLike Harmattan, but tweaked.13:22
HurrianI'd say it's more like Auxo, or OS X's Mission Control.13:22
Morpog_PC3x3 sounds fine for speed dial13:22
HurrianMorpog_PC: how the tab previews should kinda-look-like: http://media.idownloadblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Auxo-1024x751.jpg13:23
Morpog_PCaaah, now I understand, lol13:24
Morpog_PCso still horizontally aligned but shaped vertically?13:24
HurrianYep.13:24
Morpog_PCI thought you meant vertically aligned :)13:24
Hurrianoh, and where Glacier's multitasking view was taken from:13:24
Hurrianhttp://i.i.cbsi.com/cnwk.1d/i/tim/2011/07/20/4_OSX_Lion_Mission_Control_610x343.png13:25
Morpog_PCexpose :)13:25
Morpog_PCOk, will do some more changes and add the start page13:26
qwazixHurrian, Morpog_PC, i like the idea of vertical previews. Can we put the title on top rather than the bottom?13:29
Hurrianqwazix: it'd make it inconsistent with the rest of the system though :/13:29
Morpog_PCbtw, hurrian, the 3 tab icon is not only opening tabs, you can hoose there privacy and sync too13:29
qwazixhmmm... I was thinking to have a mode where only the tab titles would be visible13:29
sledgeSimalso guys don't forget the thumb stretching - to get to top url bar ;)13:30
qwazixfor quick switching13:30
sledgeSimor is it where we could use ContextRoller ;)13:30
qwazixsledgeSim, that's a toughie13:30
HurrianMorpog_PC: What's in "privacy" and "sync"?13:30
Morpog_PCI still like toilet paper roller more :)13:30
qwazixbottom bar can solve this but it's very hard to do automatic fullscreen then13:30
sledgeSimor put top url bar as bottom bar instead13:30
Morpog_PChurrian, privacy has private tabs and sync has mozilla sync settings13:31
Hurrianmmm.13:31
Hurrianhow about putting private tab previews under the regular tabs?13:32
Hurrianswipe left to right to get regular tabs13:32
Hurrianthen swipe down to see the "hidden" private tabs13:32
HurrianI thought "privacy" was privacy settings13:32
HurrianAnd Sync can be hidden inside a menu13:32
Morpog_PCwell, then there is no need for the top tabs at all13:33
HurrianThe Add Tab button should probably be a blank tab, to the very left of all other tabs13:33
Morpog_PChurrian, the add tab is there because before there is the menu button at the same place13:33
Morpog_PCso you can basically do a double tap to add a tab13:34
Hurrianmmm.13:34
HurrianMorpog_PC: could all system app settings be hidden inside the Settings app (like Harmattan, iOS)?13:35
Morpog_PCsure, but you still could do a shortcut to there from the app13:36
Hurrianapp packages could install their own settings panes into some directory and then the Settings app would pick them up13:36
Morpog_PCso no need to swipe app away, open settings app, search for your app there and enter it's settings13:36
Hurrianmmm.13:36
qwazixHurrian, I find the consolidated settings thing very bad design13:37
HurrianMorpog_PC: in that case, Add Tab still stays at top-right, and Settings cog is below it, saving us the space of the tabs up top13:37
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Hurrianqwazix: not a fan of context-switching away from the app?13:38
Hurrianyeah, it has its problems13:38
qwazixBecause some settings always have to be within reach (camera settings for example) and that already introduces inconsistency13:38
Hurrianah.13:39
qwazixAlso dev's usually don't bother to create system control panel applets and this makes the inconsistency even greater13:39
Morpog_PCthats true, happened like 98% on harmattan13:39
qwazixhaving some apps with in-app settings and others with control panel settings13:39
Morpog_PCi can count the apps on my fingers that use settings app for its settings13:40
sledgeSimHurrian was referring to only system apps having cpanel settings13:40
Morpog_PCwell, is a browser a system app or a stock app?13:40
sledgeSim:D13:40
qwazixApple got away with it because they scrutinize each app before publishing and because devs know they are strict. We can't do that.13:41
Hurrianoh, yeah, regarding that, it'd be cool if users could change default apps.13:41
sledgeSim(like browser ;P)13:41
qwazixsledgeSim, still more inconsistency13:41
sledgeSimhm tru, settings should be only system wide settings13:42
sledgeSimaccounts app+its settings fall into grey area then13:42
qwazixsledgeSim, accounts app shouldn't be an app13:42
qwazixit should be a control panel applet13:42
sledgeSim(and it is now?13:42
sledgeSim(and it is now)13:42
qwazixI think it is in the latest image, yes13:43
sledgeSimwe'll talk about accounts some later time13:43
sledgeSim:) browser now13:43
Morpog_PCwell, those are questions that all apps should be settled for13:44
sledgeSimso, should avoid clogging up settings app with other apps' panels13:45
qwazixsledgeSim, regarding url bar the problem with the end of url is security (might be vulnerability to phishing)13:45
sledgeSimand have guideline that app has to have an easy reachable settings button (a gear)13:45
sledgeSimwell, qwazix i was just geeky because many times i knew what i was browsing, i was interested in parameters insteda13:46
sledgeSimso we coul left-align with /?... url bit13:46
sledgeSim(i.e. the first forward slash)13:47
sledgeSimbut thats again for a geekphone again13:47
qwazixI would do something like      http://releases.nemomobile.org/something      becomes in the url bar       nemomobile.org - Page Title13:47
qwazixso that the top level domain is always shown for security reasons, and the title of the page for knowing exactly where you are13:47
sledgeSimyup13:48
sledgeSimthat was originally on glacier mockup13:48
sledgeSimpage title - top.level.domain13:48
sledgeSimswap the two, because domain name is usualy shorter13:49
sledgeSim+1 qwazix13:49
sledgeSim(/me imagines requests coming in for gmail unread count bit :D )13:49
sledgeSimor trim the page title13:50
qwazixthat's in the title isn't it?13:50
Hurriannot just that - IIRC firefox glows tabs when something changes13:50
Hurrianthat could be neat13:50
sledgeSim|(1) Inbox - Gmail  mail.google.com|13:50
Morpog_PCpage title I would add under, they are very long most times13:51
sledgeSimalthough full page title tis "(1) Inbox - Gmail youremail@blablabla"13:51
qwazixHurrian, another reason we should have a mode with the tabs visible and the page interactive at the same time13:51
qwazixah and another thing, that I still haven't found a good solution in any mobile I've used13:51
Hurrianqwazix: pulling down the tab bar should keep the page interactive, but selecting a tab, or pressing the tab drawer button closes out the tab bar13:52
Hurrianno big.13:52
qwazixwe should have open new tab *and* open new tab in the background13:52
sledgeSim|(1) Inbox - Gmail… mail.google.com|13:52
sledgeSimyou could also fade out instead of …13:53
qwazixIt probably isn't very popular, but I like the Nokia idea that browser opens new system windows instead of tabs, can we have this option, even as an about:config pref?13:53
Morpog_PCcould be a setting, not sure how many memory that sucks though13:54
sledgeSimit's gecko, i hope it could without eating memory13:54
Morpog_PClol13:54
sledgeSimneed to ask at #embedlite13:54
sledgeSimat irc.mozilla.org13:54
sledgeSimwhere our cutefox authors sit13:55
qwazixwhy would it eat more memory?13:55
sledgeSimit would, if it's done wrong13:55
sledgeSimquestion: can it do it right?13:55
Morpog_PCwell, qwazix sits there too for a long time :)13:55
qwazix(FYI that is the current behavior of cutefox)13:55
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Morpog_PCqwazix, just compared to tabs13:55
Morpog_PCI dunno which eats more mem13:55
qwazixthese aren't more instances of the app, they are just more qt windows13:56
qwazixunless we do stupid androidy things like unloading inactive tabs from memory memory consumption should be about the same13:57
Morpog_PCWell, I think we should set a fixed behavior. Either new windows or tabs. Bot at the same time won't work well I guess on mobile13:57
Morpog_PCBoth13:57
qwazixMorpog_PC, not at the same time. I was just thinking a hidden pref saying "open new windows instead of tabs : true/false"13:57
qwazixfor those of us used to the maemo way of things13:58
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sledgeSimwhat's difficult about fullscreen and bottom url bar?14:14
Morpog_PCwell, rest of glacier UI is top bar driven14:18
sledgeSimtrue.. which is a thumb stretcher!14:19
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qwazixsledgeSim, when the url bar is at the top you can let it hide when the user scrolls down and it feels natural, as it just goes away along with the top of the page14:23
qwazixthis can't be done when the bar is at the bottom, and that's why bottom-bar browsers (bb10 and microb) either don't have full screen or have a button for it14:24
sledgeSimyou enter url, press go (or enter), page loads, url bar stays, you scroll down, and push the url bar down ;)14:24
sledgeSimany (threshold-ed) swipe up bring bar up14:25
qwazixand then how do you reveal it again?14:25
sledgeSimsame as top bar, but reverse14:25
qwazix:nod:14:25
qwazixIt will feel a bit weird, pull down to make something come up from the bottom14:25
sledgeSimpull up14:25
qwazixpull up scrolls down, you'd have to reach the bottom of the page14:26
sledgeSimnope, with Morpog_PC we discussed yesterday14:26
qwazixalso pull up happens much more often than pull down, you would end up having the url bar almost always visible14:26
sledgeSimnew ff and android browsers have bar shown from top on any pull down14:27
sledgeSimi know that scrolling down happens more often14:27
sledgeSimso threshold could be adjusted14:27
Morpog_PCyou shouldn't mix up pull down and scroll down14:27
sledgeSimit's not conventional, i agree14:27
Morpog_PCscroll down = pull up14:28
sledgeSimi'm not mixing it if you look closely ;)14:28
sledgeSimyes14:28
sledgeSimscroll up = pull down14:28
Morpog_PCi thought, maybe in mind14:28
qwazixI think it's gonna be difficult to discover, I don't mind being unconventional, but this feels unnatural to me14:28
sledgeSimall difference is that you see url bar when you don't want14:28
sledgeSimotherwise a thumb-stretcher-solver14:28
sledgeSimtradeoff ;)14:28
Morpog_PCwhat would you guys prefer as GO button? instead of stop and reload button in urlbar?14:29
Morpog_PCwhen opening browser you don't have to stop or reload14:29
Morpog_PCor just no button at all?14:29
Morpog_PCor reload button inactive?14:29
qwazixsledgeSim, I thought of another, more universal solution for thumb-stretching, but it's also a bit unconventional. Allow the whole canvas to be pulled down until it reaches the middle of the screen14:30
sledgeSimwow a windscreen wiper approach qwazix lol14:30
qwazixMorpog_PC, I think we should copy harmattan in that regard,14:31
sledgeSimMorpog_PC, for GO use a copy of a forward button? (also re-uses 'play' button metaphor)14:31
Morpog_PCsledgeSim, would interfere with back/forward button?14:31
sledgeSimand you go 'forward' into the url ;))14:31
sledgeSimyes, it would create duplication14:31
sledgeSimbut why not14:31
sledgeSimsly ;)14:31
sledgeSimor have like this:14:32
sledgeSim< x  url.here >14:32
sledgeSim;)14:32
qwazixI like this ^^14:32
Morpog_PCharmattan doesn't show a button at all wehn opening startpage14:32
sledgeSimso when you click back/forward you dont misclick14:32
sledgeSimand forward stays for url input14:32
qwazixto make things clear, forward should become blue when urlbar is focused, and white otherwise14:33
qwazixbut then what about reload?14:34
sledgeSim< 0  url.here >14:34
Morpog_PChmm14:34
qwazixon the other hand go button is not really needed14:34
qwazixkeyboard will be up so one can press enter (rebranded as go)14:34
sledgeSimyes, less thumb movements14:34
qwazixwe could get rid of back/fwd too by using the gestures of the harmattan gallery (see last post in grog) but it will be quite hard to implement this in embedlite14:36
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qwazix(I tried to take a screenshot of the previous page with qt and keep it to make a safari(mac) style back animation on fremantle with embedlite and it isn't the easiest thing in the world)14:37
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Merbotphaeron lbt sage SR#401 waiting for review at https://build.merproject.org//request/show/40115:04
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Morpog_PCSo, worked on startpage and tabs. qwazix, hurrian, sledgeSim, faenil16:28
Morpog_PChttp://abload.de/img/previewq4uj3.png16:28
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Morpog_PCcan I twitter that mockup?16:29
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alteregoMorpog_PC: I imagine the "Touch to enter web address" should be a bit greyed down.16:34
alteregoAs it's place holder text.16:34
Morpog_PCtrue16:34
Morpog_PCthx16:36
sledgeSim14:09 < Hurrian> Morpog_PC: ah. it's confusing - 3 stripes means settings modal, showing tab bar should be two squares (see the iOS 5/6 icon for this)16:37
sledgeSim(the menu button)16:37
sledgeSimi like this more and more! \o/16:37
Morpog_PCwell, it doesn't only reveal tabs, but also privacy, sync, settings button, new tab button16:37
Morpog_PCso it's kinda a menu isn't it?16:38
sledgeSimehrmmm yes point made :)16:38
sledgeSimand in there we will also add harmattan relics16:39
sledgeSimbookmark, share, pin to desktop16:40
Morpog_PChmm, well but firefox also has 2 squares and has same settings as I have, hmmmm16:40
sledgeSimbare necessities ;) (although i -barely- used pin to desktop :)16:40
Morpog_PClet'S see how iOS icon looks like16:40
sledgeSimchrome has stripes :)16:40
Morpog_PCalmost same as firefox icon16:41
Morpog_PCwell, shall I replace it or not?16:41
Morpog_PCit shows also how much tabs you have16:41
Morpog_PCnot that bad16:41
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Morpog_PCscrew it, I replace it :)16:41
* sledgeSim thinks either one is fine16:41
sledgeSimlol16:42
Morpog_PCI could replace the gear icon with the menu icon :)16:42
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sledgeSimthat's where we need guidelines ;)16:43
sledgeSimi think we need to put up guideline open questions somewhere (etherpad?)16:43
sledgeSimand in the end it will rule them all :))16:44
Morpog_PClol16:44
Morpog_PCguidelines sounds good16:44
sledgeSimfirst question: gear or menu icon for settings16:44
alteregoscrewdriver :P16:46
sledgeSimand pliers :))16:46
sledgeSimi think stripes means menu16:47
sledgeSimnot settings16:47
sledgeSimgear means settings16:47
sledgeSimmenu can be anything16:47
Morpog_PCwell yeah16:48
Morpog_PCbut in menu there could be more stuff like settings, about, etc.16:49
Morpog_PCin settings there should be only settings16:49
sledgeSimah that depends on the looks of that screen16:49
sledgeSimwhich we haven't masterminded yet ;)16:49
sledgeSimandroid settings has about16:49
sledgeSim:)))16:49
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Morpog_PCI like tabs, but could get crowded with two many pages16:50
Morpog_PCtwo, lol --> too16:50
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qwazixMorpog_PC, how can the user access the speed-dial other than the first time he enters the app?17:02
qwazixI find the fact that on firefox mobile you can't do that at all unless you close all the tabs frustrating17:03
Morpog_PCby opening new tab maybe? or add a home button somewhere17:03
qwazixand then there's the other thing, do we really need the two different screens 1 and 3 in your mockup?17:04
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qwazixthey pretty much have the same functionality17:04
qwazixMy proposition is to replace the most viewed tab with your start screen and call it quick destinations or something17:05
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Morpog_PCwell, urlbar is active there and beyboard hides stuff17:05
Morpog_PCkeyboard17:06
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qwazixmake it 4 tabs maybe then?17:06
qwazixspeed dial on the left with a small icon  like   : :17:07
qwazixhave this active on launch, and new tab, and the most viewed one when keyboard is active17:07
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Morpog_PChmmmmm17:07
Morpog_PCpurpose of 3rd screen is to have most space visible for urlbar17:08
Morpog_PCso you see what you enter17:08
qwazixwhat I'm saying doesn't change that17:08
qwazixI'm saying change the tab bar to be like  | : : | Most Viewed | Bookmarks | History |17:09
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Morpog_PCyeah, I understand. Need to think about it.17:10
qwazixand btw, I vote leaving the shapes of the buttons as is17:12
Morpog_PCbuttons? shapes?17:14
Morpog_PCmenu button?17:14
Morpog_PCjust replaced em all...17:14
Morpog_PChttp://abload.de/img/unbenanntaxuv3.jpg17:15
Morpog_PCI kinda like it17:16
qwazixhm, I think the old one was better. Because that is not only the tab bar but access to everything17:20
Morpog_PCbut with that icon, you can see if you got other tabs open17:20
Morpog_PCwithout opening the view17:20
qwazixso what? useless info17:20
Morpog_PCnot when links open in backround in a new tab and you wonder why nothing happens :)17:21
qwazixwe should provide a cue in that case anyway (glow the button or something)17:22
qwazixI wouldn't remember the old number anyway to notice a bump of 117:22
qwazixor anyone for that matter17:22
Morpog_PCwell, I got the old layers just deactivated, so we can quickly change back to menu icon. Lets see what others say.17:23
qwazixokay17:23
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Morpog_PCqwazix, I added your idea, have a look?19:06
Morpog_PChttp://abload.de/img/preview28lu57.png19:06
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qwazixMorpog_PC, I think it's good, what do you say?19:24
Morpog_PCyeah, I like it too, as the main urlbar is samne size now everywhere19:25
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Morpog_PCnot sure about the house icon though :)19:25
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Morpog_PCHurrian, sledgeSim any comments to latest version? http://abload.de/img/preview28lu57.png19:28
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Morpog_PCqwazix, maybe nemo logo instead of house logo?19:31
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qwazixnah, it'll look like it'll go to nemomobile.org19:36
qwazixeither house or 4 squares a'la opera speed dial icon19:36
Morpog_PCok19:36
qwazixor maybe the icefox icon19:39
qwazixbut I think the home is good, and easy to guess19:39
qwazixmovie time. cya later19:40
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Morpog_PCcya19:42
Morpog_PCqwazix, maybe later (or others) http://abload.de/img/unbenannt9ku4x.jpg19:43
Morpog_PClooks better imho19:43
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sledgeSimniiice :)21:28
sledgeSimi like™ :)21:28
Morpog_PCfull preview with icon updated http://abload.de/img/previewsxuyw.png21:30
sledgeSimgood stuff21:30
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sledgeSimtweet tweet? :D21:31
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Morpog_PCI did already :)21:31
Morpog_PCbut with old icon21:31
Morpog_PCyou can retweet or do a new one with latest preview if you want21:31
sledgeSimi'm in love with both icons :D21:31
sledgeSimtbh21:32
Morpog_PCwell the house one I hust recycled from my QmlMozBrowser icons :)21:32
sledgeSimbut you know, it looks homy :D21:32
Morpog_PCthe new one looks more modern21:33
detroutThat's a nice looking mobile browser21:33
sledgeSimic21:33
Morpog_PCare you maintaining @nemomobile twitter account?21:33
sledgeSimyup21:34
Morpog_PCah :)21:34
sledgeSimi can put up with latest icon then21:34
Morpog_PCwell, feel free :)21:34
sledgeSimhow you say, without homy icon :)21:34
Morpog_PCPoor guy who has to implement this into code, lol21:34
sledgeSim:DDD21:35
sledgeSimwas thinking the same21:35
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sledgeSimwill come to you with fury :D21:35
Morpog_PCyay, without home icon21:35
sledgeSimok21:36
sledgeSimgot an idea for a nice tweet ;)21:36
sledgeSimsec21:36
Morpog_PCdon't upload via twitter pic, it downsamples the pic....21:37
sledgeSimi know ull c ;)21:38
sledgeSimcheers though :)21:38
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sledgeSimMorpog_PC, https://twitter.com/NemoMobile/status/36812561736495104021:44
sledgeSim:)21:44
Morpog_PCnice, thx :)21:44
sledgeSimthank you!21:44
sledgeSim& Co; well done21:44
Morpog_PCnemo will look awesome when all apps are ported to glacier UI :)21:45
sledgeSimwas thinking the same :)21:46
sledgeSimbut also21:46
sledgeSimcurrent ui is quite thumb stretching21:46
sledgeSimso will be a good toughy this one21:47
sledgeSimor we'll just run it on <=4.5in screens :D21:48
sledgeSimcould implement sailfish tabs navigation21:48
sledgeSimthat one does not have to stretch to the top to go back/forward through app's screens21:49
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sledgeSimi guess it's been a long day for you Morpog_PC , sleep well deserved in order :D21:51
sledgeSim*past couple of days21:51
HurrianMorpog_PC: looks good!21:55
Morpog_PCsledgeSim, sorry, my sister called via skype from her holidays in Miami :)22:07
Morpog_PCwell, sailfishos's swipe down to close is also a thumb stretcher22:07
Morpog_PCthx Hurrian22:08
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faenilcrap, got disconnected while I was out22:39
faenilMorpog_PC, last preview looks good :) I vote for the house icon :D22:39
Morpog_PCtoo late :)22:39
Morpog_PChehe22:39
faenilcrap! :D22:40
Morpog_PCwhich latest preview are you refering to? I did a few latest ones today ;)22:40
Morpog_PCshould be the latest http://abload.de/img/previewsxuyw.png22:41
Morpog_PCfaenil, are you going to implement this in code? :D22:42
* faenil hides22:42
Morpog_PC:D22:42
Morpog_PCI'm sending the pics to my N9 now, wanan check how it looks on device :)22:43
faenilthough I have to say I don't like the look of the tabs very much :)22:44
faenilI see :)22:44
Morpog_PCwell, they are minimalistic22:44
faenilwell, I love WP's UI, so, I'd say that's not the problem :D22:44
Morpog_PCIf hurrian implements other tabs in glacierUI, then I will replace them22:45
faenilbut maybe it's just a matter of getting used to it :)22:45
Morpog_PCit was just my idea of tabs22:45
faenilsure ;) thanks for prototyping22:45
Morpog_PCsmaller than I thought in device22:47
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