Sunday, 2013-08-18

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faenilMorpog_PC, qwazix Hurrian anyone around?08:45
Morpog_PCfell asleep on couch yesterday :D08:46
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Morpog_PCso whats up?08:48
faenilMorpog_PC, so, button? :D08:48
faenilI have about 30mins08:49
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Morpog_PCok, what do you need?08:49
faenilgraphics, behaviours :)08:50
Morpog_PClink to fork?08:50
Morpog_PCor is it the same?08:51
faenilwell, I just commented out the custom styles atm08:51
Morpog_PCoh I see you got your Tshirt :)08:51
faenil <---- Touch Gallery demo08:51
Morpog_PCso button, is the one on your twitter screen?08:52
faenilyea I did :)08:52
faeniltabs and buttons there08:52
Morpog_PCok, I forked and cloned it08:54
faenilnot sure it's needed, unless you want to style them :)08:56
Morpog_PCwas easier then downloading each image by its own08:57
faenilright :)08:57
Morpog_PCdoesn't look like we got a button at all yet?08:58
Morpog_PCin glacier ui08:58
faenilI was observing the same :O08:58
faenilyou can see one here
Morpog_PCI am creating one :)09:01
Hurrianohai Morpog_PC09:01
faenilo/ Hurrian09:01
Hurrianso, on-screen buttons?09:02
faenilwe can start from sliders if you need more time :)09:02
Hurrianideally, they'd be edge-to-edge like the time select dialog09:02
faenilHurrian, so if you put a button in a view, it goes edge to edge?09:03
Hurrianunless you really need to put text beside it09:03
Morpog_PCHurrian, thats how they look like atm:
faenilHurrian, forget toolbar, what if you have a button in the middle of a view09:03
faenildo you think it's okay to force it to be edge to edge?09:04
Hurrianso, there's just a button and nothing else?09:04
Morpog_PClook at the image09:04
Hurrianhow about lifting the style from the edge-to-edge buttons, but only have them occupy 60% of the screen, centered?09:05
faenilsounds better09:05
faenillifting as in using the same style?09:06
Morpog_PCwell faenil, as I see they don't need any graphics at all, they are plain flat blue or grey styled09:06
Morpog_PCi can tell you the exact colors09:07
Hurrianfaenil: yep. use grey unless it's the final control that closes out the dialog.09:07
faenilHurrian, ?09:07
faenilwe're not in dialogs yet, you're going too fast :)09:07
faenilwe don't even have dialogs in QtQuickControls :P09:07
Hurrianfaenil: :P09:07
Morpog_PChurrian, that blue should laso be used as color while it's pressed, or?09:08
Hurrianif it's a control that tweaks a knob, just make it grey09:08
Hurrianthe grey buttons, make them lighter grey-silver when pressed09:08
Morpog_PCah ok09:08
Hurrianblue buttons should mean "okay, confirm, take me away, mission done"09:08
faenilI need colours and behaviours, don't turn me into a graphics artist :D09:09
Morpog_PCbtw hurrian, your background is not total black, doesn't only true black save energy on AMOLED displays?09:09
Morpog_PCfaenil #474747 for button color09:10
HurrianMorpog_PC: haven't updated the mockup on Grog yet, but it is black now.09:10
Morpog_PCah ok09:10
Hurrianbut I'm kinda on the fence about it, though.09:11
Hurriandark grey looks really good, but white text on stark black looks good too.09:11
Hurrianso for now, let's stick with AMOLED off black.09:11
faenilI vote for the dark grey on grog :D09:12
faenilok so plain black09:12
Morpog_PCfaenil, i chosse #606060 as pressed grey color09:13
faenilMorpog_PC, 474747 for unpressed?09:13
faenilnot pressed*09:13
faenilwhat about text09:14
Morpog_PCheight is in hurrians mockup 50px09:15
Morpog_PCtext is #ffffff09:16
faenilin all cases?09:16
HurrianBTW: metrics in the Glacier mockup are all pretty correct, although we're supposed to use Source Sans now, the metrics don't really change that much09:16
faenilok, what about text size in the button :P09:16
Morpog_PCbutton text = source sans pro semibold 1309:17
faenilpoints I guess09:17
Morpog_PCand semibold09:18
faenilMorpog_PC, is source sans pro the one already used in VM?09:18
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Hurrianhmm, semibold looks to be the best option09:18
HurrianSource Sans Bold looks pretty bad at smaller sizes :/09:18
Morpog_PCfaenil, , i dunno09:18
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faenilis source sans pro semibold already installed by default?09:19
faenilor where does it come from?09:19
faenilis it packaged?09:19
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Morpog_PCwell, sailfishos emu has it09:21
Morpog_PCbut just light and extralight :(09:21
faenilnot installed in nemo vm09:22
faenilso, we don't even have the needed fonts \o/09:23
Morpog_PCWell, now you know your next mission critical :)09:23
faenilMorpog_PC, rpm -qf fontFile09:24
faeniltell me which package it is09:24
Morpog_PCit doesn't have all weights in it09:24
Morpog_PCpretty useless09:25
faenilbut maybe they have more packages09:25
faeniltell me the name09:25
faenilok they only have that one09:28
faenilso, should we change the font to source-sans-pro in the whole system?09:29
faenil(unless you want to use a different font in buttons than the rest of the system :D )09:29
faenilguys ...09:36
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faenilMorpog_PC, Hurrian alright, I'm leaving09:40
Morpog_PCsorry, was afk a few minutes09:42
Morpog_PCfaenil, as I see it's used everywhere in glacier UI. But I read on grog, that it doesn't support kyrillic09:43
Morpog_PCmaybe qwazix has an opinion too?09:43
Morpog_PChurrian, as in here qwazix suggested open sans instead of source sans pro09:45
Hurrianhmm, that's an i18n problem :/09:46
Morpog_PCwell, not issueing us now, but maybe later09:47
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grywhat problem?09:50
Morpog_PCno cyrillic letter support09:52
Morpog_PCand greek09:52
Morpog_PCso faenil, button font would be open sans semibold 1209:53
Morpog_PCand yes I guess open sans should be used system wide then09:54
qwazixSource sans and open sans look very much alike. It shouldn't be a problem to switch between them.09:55
Morpog_PCyeah looks very same to me09:56
qwazixWe can also use source sans and fall back to open sans for unsupported scripts until adobe fixes source sans09:56
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qwazixOr if there's a font designer here, fix source sans ourselves :P09:57
grywhere would you add these letters? thought they're at least readable in browser09:59
gryis there some app interface of which is now available in these languages?10:00
Morpog_PCwell, think of translations later10:00
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gryI'm just not understanding whether the problem is system-wide or app-specific10:00
qwazixNo, but one doesn't need the system to be in his language to send sms in it.10:01
Morpog_PCfaenil has to do a package for fonts anyway, if it's source sans pro or open sans i don't care that much, they look almost same10:01
qwazixHaving support for different scripts for editing is far more essential than i18n10:01
qwazixgry, the problem is that we need a font with as much unicode support as possible, to have consistency accross words written in different scripts for any reason10:04
Morpog_PCtop is source sans pro, bottpm is open sans, both semibold10:04
qwazixBe it user input or system strings10:04
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qwazixBrowsers make it easy. If a char is not there it tries to use the same one from a fallback font. I don't know if qt does that or displays squares. If it's the latter it makes using a font with many scripts even the more important.10:06
qwazixMorpog, I like source sans more, but for reasons above I vote for open sans.10:08
Morpog_PCI would say to minimize effort for all of us, let's use open sans10:09
gryLucida sans unicode comes to mind, but it might be closed; I understand the problem now at least10:09
Morpog_PCexchanging font later sounds horrible10:09
qwazixI think lucida is closed. Droid and Dejavu are similar and open, but we'd like something more humanist, like nokia pure10:10
Morpog_PCbbl in the evening, need to do coals for a family bbq party now :)10:11
Morpog_PCyeah, i like the style of nokia pure, source sans pro and open sans10:11
qwazixSource sans, open sans, nokia pure and segoe UI lookk very much alike10:11
qwazixI also like Transport very much but it only has one weight.10:12
Superpelicanhmm the Nokia Pure font seems to be designed by the same studio that designed the Ubuntu font10:19
* Superpelican likes the Ubuntu font a lot10:19
Superpelicanit's a shame it's not the "Fedora" or "openSUSE" font though ;)10:20
qwazixUbuntu font is nice too10:20
SuperpelicanDejavu Sans is nice too though10:21
qwazixBut its very distinctive10:21
Superpelicanit was my favourite font10:21
Superpelican(Ubuntu Font)10:21
SuperpelicanI reinstalled distro's so much10:21
Superpelican(non-Ubuntu distros)10:21
Superpelicanthat I didn't install the Ubuntu font each time again10:22
Superpelicanso eventually I stopped using it10:22
Superpelicannow I just use Dejavu Sans10:22
Superpelicanwhich comes with about every distro10:22
SuperpelicanAnd it's growing on me10:22
Superpelicanso +1 for using Dejavu10:22
qwazixDejavu is too much like arial10:22
SuperpelicanI don't think so10:23
qwazixFor my liking10:23
Superpelicanmaybe a little bit10:23
Superpelicanbut who cares10:23
SuperpelicanI mean Arial as *art* isn't that bad10:23
Superpelicanit's just10:23
* Superpelican whispers to qwazix: "It's a MS font"10:24
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SuperpelicanI actually like Dejavu more10:25
qwazixNo it's not bad. It just looks old nowadays10:25
Superpelicanmaybe if it's black/white10:26
qwazixPrevious generation.10:26
Superpelicanon top of the Glacier UI10:26
SuperpelicanI think it would look quite modern10:26
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Superpelicanqwazix:You could always use the Silica font10:26
Superpelican(or however it's called)10:26
Superpelicanit's open10:26
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qwazixThat's source sans I think10:27
Superpelicannever heard of source sans10:27
qwazixThat was our first candidate but it doesn't have as many scripts as open sans and we pretty much decided to go with the latter10:28
* Superpelican <3 Source Sans Pro10:29
qwazixMe too.10:30
Superpelicanqwazix:What about Nimbus Sans (L)10:30
qwazix Not bad10:31
qwazixBut I'd like a bit more rounded, less formal font.10:31
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qwazixThat's source sans vs open sans10:32
Superpelicanhmm I really can't choose10:32
Superpelicanthey both look really, really nice10:32
SuperpelicanI like the l of source sans10:32
Superpelicanbut the open sans one10:32
Superpelicanis very nice too10:32
SuperpelicanI like both Cs10:33
qwazixThat's why we went with open sans as it's technically better10:33
qwazixSupports Greek and Cyrillic10:33
qwazixIt's more important for these scripts that have some letters common with latin to be in the same font as Latin that say, Mandarin or Japanese10:35
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qwazixSo that A and Α have the same design10:36
qwazixSee this for more details10:39
Superpelicanqwazix:That link gives a 40410:40
Superpelican :O10:42
qwazixSorry, fat fingers10:42
qwazixBye for now! Cya later.10:45
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zetazHi. Anyone knows the command to check the network adapters states and ip addresses ? ifconfig doesn't exist in the nemo VM image apparently12:14
Stskeeps /sbin/ifconfig12:14
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zetazstskeeps : thanks !!! I didn't though of looking here...12:15
Stskeepspath is a little funny12:16
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gry"a little"12:16
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zetazStskeeps: Is there reason /sbin is not in path ? I could understand it being a difference between normal user and root, but it seems root don't have it either (with "su -").12:20
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Stskeepszetaz: i think it's cos /sbin isn't in path for user, just root..12:25
Stskeepsand it gets inherited through su or something like that..12:25
zetazStskeeps: I tested on my computer (Fedora), if "su" then the path from the user is kept (no /sbin), if "su -" then I have the path of root with /sbin (as well as other environment variables like PS1).It is the same in Nemo, I didn't read it correctly...12:29
zetazthe main difference with the desktop if that ifconfig is in /usr/sbin/, which is in the path of all users12:30
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iekkui might not able to host bug triage tomorroe17:25
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sledgeSimfaenil, sorry im in spain lol20:35
sledgeSimis all good now?20:36
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Morpog_PCsledgeSim, we started styling qtquick controls21:05
Morpog_PCwell, better said, faenil did setup verything and on the first element we struggled and discussed a while and now we have to package fonts first :)21:06
faenilsledgeSim, evening21:09
faenilevening people :)21:09
Morpog_PCello faenil21:09
Morpog_PCwe discussed fonts a bit more and came to the conclussion that we need open sans instead of source sans pro21:10
faenilMorpog_PC, o/21:10
faenilyeah read all the backlog while I was out today ;)21:10
Morpog_PCah ok :)21:10
Morpog_PCyou can get it here: la!21:10
Morpog_PC<sledgeSim> faenil, sorry im in spain lol21:10
Morpog_PC<sledgeSim> is all21:10
faenilsledgeSim, what are you doing in Spain? holidays? :D21:11
Morpog_PCyou can get it here: opensans.com21:11
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Morpog_PCI guess, what else can you do in spain? :D21:12
faenilright, right :D21:12
Morpog_PCmy holidays end today :(21:13
faenilsame here :(21:13
faenilI should start studying tomorrow :( I'm in terrible delay already..21:13
Morpog_PCso your next break is in 3 minths I guess?21:13
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Morpog_PCor 4?21:14
faenilyeah well it all depends on quite a few factors21:14
faenilbut I should have some more time after half of November for sure21:14
faenilmaybe earlier, if I'm lucky21:15
Morpog_PChmmm, maybe official qt quick controls for mobile are then ready :)21:16
faenildon't think so :) but they will be in better shape for sure :)21:16
Morpog_PCwell, maybe we can still tinker a bit on weekends21:17
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faenilMorpog_PC, study doesn't stop on weekends :P21:21
faenilbut yeah well, I think I'll still join the chat in the evenings :)21:22
Morpog_PCthats why I said "maybe" :)21:22
Morpog_PCIt's clear that we won't see faenil in powermode for a long time now :)21:22
faenil:( sad21:22
Morpog_PChey, you really achieved alot in the last weeks21:23
Morpog_PCThat was some great work!21:23
faenilthank you :) it was a lot of fun21:24
faenilit would have taken much shorter time, if I already knew some stuff :)21:24
faenilbut it was good to learn, always better to learn new stuff than keep using old one :)21:25
Morpog_PCyeah, even more when the old stuff is obsolete21:26
Morpog_PCimagine what happens when you start your VM in 4 months and do a zypper ref and up :)21:27
faenilI hope I'll see gorgeous things :)21:27
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faenilanyway I'm having a quick look at fonts packaging files...and it seems every font has its special things to do when installing :/21:28
Morpog_PCwhy can such stuff never be easy :(21:29
Morpog_PClike copy in folder and add to a config file, and voila21:30
faenilyeah :D21:30
sledgeSimremember old nemo was on droid21:33
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sledgeSimwhen i was labelling up shutdown screen21:34
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Morpog_PCwell, thats a minute fix for me :)21:34
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sledgeSimsorry didnt read backlog: what will we do for the dpi factor?21:36
Morpog_PCthats a good question21:36
Morpog_PCwhat was done before?21:37
Morpog_PCfixed size?21:37
Morpog_PCdifferent themes for different resolutions?21:37
Morpog_PCscalable is hard to master21:37
sledgeSimthere is dpi in config21:37
Morpog_PCwas the old theme scalable?21:38
sledgeSimwhich causes old old settings app to resize its icon spacing (list margins)21:38
sledgeSimbut all icons, even svg ones didnt scalr21:38
Morpog_PCwell I guess we will see that once work on restyling begins. I dunno if glacier would work scalable21:40
sledgeSimdepends on hw21:41
Morpog_PCI guess there should be 3 themes, one for qHD and smaller, one for 720p and one for 1080p21:41
sledgeSimsame question for realtime blurring etc21:41
sledgeSimwas about to suggest the same21:41
Morpog_PCas glacier doesn't use that many graphics it shouldn't be too complex to do21:43
faenilso, I guess i need some help with font packaging21:44
Morpog_PCdon't look at me, I'm clueless21:45
faenilsledgeSim, do you know anything? why are those three packaging so different?21:45
* Morpog_PC surfs to his couch21:46
faeniland I surf to my bed :P see you tomorrow!21:46
sledgeSimwill look. do you have opensans packaging skeleton?21:46
sledgeSimi also suef to bed lol21:47
faenilsledgeSim, packaing skeleton?21:47
sledgeSimyes, the draft21:47
sledgeSimor just examining existing?21:48
faenilsledgeSim, examining mer ones21:48
sledgeSimok, will look in morning, continie your hard work, thank you fellows!21:49
faenilsledgeSim, it's actually more about knowing what I should Provide21:50
faenilfor example droid provides   37 Provides:  scalable-font-zh-TW21:51
specialyou don't, unless you're trying to get it pulled in by default21:51
faenilspecial, why?21:52
specialafaik you shouldn't have two packages providing the same thing21:53
faenilok, that is ok21:54
faenilwhat I meant is, how do I know what my package should "Provide" in this case?21:54
faenilI wouldn't have never thought droid would provide that package21:54
specialyou can think of Provides like an alias for the package21:55
faenilspecial, yes I know how Provides work in RPM packaging :)21:56
specialyou don't need any unless there's an explicit reason you do.21:56
faenilI've been playing with rpms quite some time lately21:56
specialin this case, it sounds like you just need a basic package for the font and a dependency on it from whatever UI package uses it21:56
specialunless you're looking to change default fonts platform-wide21:56
specialin which case it touches on patterns or dependencies elsewhere21:57
faenilspecial, exactly, "unless there's an explicit reason"21:57
faenilspecial, yes I am, we want Open Sans platform wide it seems21:57
specialwhy? If it's glacier's font, why not just depend on it and set it as the default when using glacier?21:59
faenilspecial, I think the rest of the system would look "weird"22:01
faenildroid's packaging is very simple, apart from those "scalable" provides which I didn't know had to be there22:04
faenilbut the others use "mkfontscale"..22:05
faenilalso, droid has .conf files for fontconfig22:06
faenilliberation doesn't have them...22:07
faenilwhat is the freaking correct way to package a font? XD22:07
faenilspecial, do you know something about it?22:10
specialI'd guess it doesn't matter that much, if everything is doing it differently22:10
faenilok..I'll try to get more info tomorrow22:11
faenilgood night!22:11
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