Saturday, 2013-10-12

faenil:/ do you really want to handle that?00:00
qwazixor we create a new property columnInLandscape: true/false00:00
faeniland side scrolling in landscape?00:01
qwazixokay, let's do the simple edition first, and we see later if there is a point of doing column levels00:01
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qwazixyes sidescrolling00:01
faenil:/00:02
faenilok00:02
faenilqwazix, thanks for the specs though ;)00:02
qwazixnp! thanks for the deeply thought comments. Invaluable00:03
faenil:)00:03
qwazixI still think we have very much space in the dock and scrolling will be needed in really extreme cases00:03
faenilqwazix, I still would like to hear how silica does it for pulley menu00:04
qwazixyeah, good question00:04
faenilI didn't find any limit by skimming through the qml code00:04
qwazixwe can anyway forget page5 for now and leave it for Glacier 1.1 as it is more important to do more controls than capture all edge cases. I will still leave it there in the spec, but lets keep it simple for now00:06
faenilmy opinion is providing column level is something we shouldn't encourage00:06
faenilif the extreme dev wants to do that, he'll handle it all b himself00:06
faenilbut that's just my opinion00:06
faenilwe either limit the layout of the levels by providing something that works for both portrait and landscape00:07
faenilor fix it to rows both in portr/landscape00:07
qwazixthat's an approach too. Let's fix it to rows for now.00:08
faenilyeah I'll do rows00:08
faenilwe'll look into the rest later00:08
qwazixplease download again, I removed that clipping reference http://play.qwazix.com/shared/header.pdf00:08
faenilqwazix, oki00:08
faenilalso one thing before I forget00:09
qwazixI will push to the repo soon anyway, I just wanted your input before I did00:09
faenillet's suppose you have a paint application00:09
faenilthe kid has a page he can scratch on00:09
faenilnow you open header and kbd00:09
faenilthe page becomes 20px high (more or less :P )00:09
faenilwhat happens to the drawing of the kid?00:09
faenil(when he sets stuff back into closed position)00:10
qwazixthe same thing that would happen if he just opened the keyboard00:10
faenilyeah, which is?00:11
qwazixespecially for paint apps where scrolling isn't possible there should be another way to move the canvas (two finger drag for example)00:11
qwazix(that's how samsung does it)00:11
faenilyeah00:12
qwazixor a grab tool00:12
faenilbut what happens if the canvas is extremely expensive to draw?00:12
faenilyou get nice lags while opening the drawer00:12
faenilwhile closing, actually00:12
qwazixcan't you just cover it and leave it in memory?00:13
faeniland that's why the keyboard doesn't animate up, it just sets the height of the page all at once00:13
faenilqwazix, that's not for you to decide00:13
qwazixIt seems to me that it does animate00:14
faenilare you sure?00:15
faenilI'm quite sure it does not00:15
faenilit animates from bottom00:15
faenilbut the page is resized already00:15
faenilto a fixed height00:15
faeniljust the keyboard animates into the black rectangle which has been left for it00:15
qwazixok, probably I was just testing in notes, where page resize is not visible00:15
qwazixon BB10 it animates over the window00:16
faenilyep, different solution00:16
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qwazixI guess we'll have to try and see?00:17
faenilyeah...we have to waste time and see :P00:18
faenilnot many options unfortunately00:18
qwazixwe can just implement the resizing only and try, we don't have to do it all00:18
faeniland we need an app which exploits that behaviour...00:18
faenilanyway, I'll be going to be it's damn late :)00:19
qwazixyeah me too00:19
faenilnice, see you tomorrow guys00:19
qwazixo/00:19
faenilnice chat*00:19
faenilo/00:19
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alteregoHmm, 3am already ..01:57
alteregoEek01:57
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locusfqwazix: I don't know that much about maliit but I think the idea is great08:43
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rantomRegarding this: https://twitter.com/NemoMobile/status/38865765649311744008:57
locusfyou also need to update fingerterm :)08:58
rantomI only get a "package not found"08:58
rantomAnd same for updates, none available08:58
locusfhmm interesting08:58
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rantomThere is though "sensorfw-qt" in Packages, under System. (version 0.7.2.8-1.1.4)09:07
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rantoms/qt/qt5/09:07
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rantomAnd "sensorfw-qt5-configs"09:08
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locusfwhich version of nemo are you using?09:09
locusfalso can you check with zypper lr if you have nemo:devel:mw repository enabled?09:10
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rantomlocusf: No nemo:devel:mw enabled nor installed09:11
rantomThat "might" explain it :)09:11
locusfrantom: ok09:11
locusfheheh :)09:11
locusfzypper ar http://repo.merproject.org/obs/nemo:/devel:/mw/latest_armv7hl/nemo:devel:mw.repo09:12
locusfthat should do it09:12
rantomJust the basics, adaptation0 & 1, mer-core and nemo-platform09:12
locusfthen you gotta be sure to zypper install fingerterm, do not do zypper dup09:13
locusfor should you09:13
locusfhm..09:13
locusfI don't remember wether its safe now09:13
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rantomIf you're talking about the blackscreen it was fixed09:13
rantomThis: https://twitter.com/sledgeSim/status/38727114876271820809:15
rantomlocusf: Also: regular N950 image, not Wayland09:17
locusfrantom: ok then it might not work09:18
rantom113 updates available though now09:19
rantomYeah, going to remove the repository since I can't find it from the Wiki09:24
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rantomAre most of the tweets posted to @NemoMobile for dev?09:31
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zbenjaminrantom: if you do a update don't forget this: https://twitter.com/faenil/status/38502493072460595210:18
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rantomzbenjamin: Ok, thanks. I'll stick to the normal image for now then11:08
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locusfI can now finally test the landscape keyboard too12:24
Morpog_PCwtf is going on? https://twitter.com/kwljz/status/38896900818547507212:25
locusfyeah I wondered about that too12:25
Morpog_PCa) launch is imminent and he got it from a supply chain12:29
Morpog_PCb) it was stolen somewhere12:29
Morpog_PCc) jolla lost it by "accident" (unlikely)12:30
dm8tbrone thing I'm pretty sure about is: this is not good12:31
Morpog_PCyeah12:32
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Morpog_PCqwazix, that nemo logo, is there a SVG version anywhere? I searched alot but couldn't find it anywhere.14:15
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qwazixno, not that I know of. We should ask the creator14:16
qwazixIIRC @realnorth on twitter14:16
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locusfqwazix: I don't know how to do the cursor selection but I guess its possible14:21
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Morpog_PCqwazix, I asked14:23
Morpog_PCif no SVG is available I'm going to recreate it then.14:23
Morpog_PCoh that was my 1000th tweet14:23
Morpog_PClocusf, just by kbd presses?14:24
Morpog_PCI'm sure maliit provides those already14:24
qwazixlocusf, :nod:14:24
qwazixit shouldn't be too hard I suppose...14:24
qwazixsince maliit already has arrows support14:25
Morpog_PCbtw qwazix what about a small overlay for that IBM key14:25
qwazixlike?14:25
Morpog_PCaslong as you press14:25
Morpog_PCsec, doing a fast prototype14:25
qwazixyeah, why not?14:25
qwazixthe corresponding quartertile can grow and fade a bit out as long as it's pressed14:28
qwazixsize can be analogous to the distance from the finger to the center or something14:28
locusfqwazix: where is the arrows support?14:29
* qwazix would love an etherpad equivalent with svg14:29
qwazixlocusf, on harmattan you can add arrows to the xml and they work fine14:29
locusfas in where in code :)14:29
qwazixah, I don't know14:30
qwazixI wonder if svgedit could be hacked to provide collaborative editing14:30
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Morpog_PCqwazix, something like that http://abload.de/img/examplevysem.png14:42
locusfqwazix: how was that cursor movement supposed to work, is it triggered at pressed left -> right gesture on the spacebar?14:42
locusfah so like that14:42
locusfthats nicer14:43
Morpog_PCand aslong you are on left for example it repeats keypresses accelerating14:43
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qwazixMorpog_PC, that suggests a bit that it can be tapped14:43
qwazixI think it should be more subtle14:44
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qwazixMorpog_PC, something like http://play.qwazix.com/shared/tmp_trackpoint.png14:53
locusfnice14:56
qwazixlocusf, trigger is a swipe that starts roughly over the trackpoint14:58
locusfand to the desired direction?14:59
qwazixyep14:59
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locusfhmm qmlmessages segfaults15:01
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Morpog_PCsorry, was on a videochat15:03
Morpog_PCsure, more subtle, was just to show the mechanics15:04
Morpog_PCmaybe all round15:04
locusfput in some specs and I can see what I could do15:06
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locusf(famous last words re trumpet)15:06
qwazixlol15:08
qwazixlocusf, try to make the cursor move in any way and when we have a relative consensus on design/functionality we'll spec it15:09
locusfqwazix: ok15:11
qwazixthe point of the trackpoint is precision, so moving your finger X pixels to the right, the cursor should move X/4 to the same direction15:11
qwazixslow enough that it will be easy to move only one character15:12
locusfargh15:12
Morpog_PCand I think it should repeat keystrokes15:12
Morpog_PCand accelerating15:12
qwazixyep, and yep15:13
qwazix(I have a hunch that acceleration might be hard to do thoug)15:14
qwazix*thoug15:14
qwazixcrap15:14
qwazix*though15:15
locusfwell nothing about this shouldn't come easy :D15:15
locusfor I might be surprised15:15
locusfone never knows15:15
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Morpog_PCmore subtle:15:41
Morpog_PChttp://abload.de/img/trackpoint130s9m.png15:41
Morpog_PChttp://abload.de/img/trackpoint2f0sin.png15:41
Morpog_PChttp://abload.de/img/trackpoint3c7scj.png15:42
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qwazixMorpog_PC, do we really need the arrows?15:50
Morpog_PCnot really15:50
Morpog_PCsu circles without arrow15:52
Morpog_PCso15:52
Morpog_PCar none at all?15:52
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Morpog_PCor15:52
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qwazixI still think we just need just a little indication of what is happening rather than a full-on overlay15:53
Morpog_PCsecond15:53
qwazixsandy_locke's quartertiles were a good indicator that this is a 4way control without need for arrows15:54
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Morpog_PChttp://abload.de/img/trackpoint1wcukf.png15:59
Morpog_PChttp://abload.de/img/trackpoint274u96.png15:59
Morpog_PChttp://abload.de/img/trackpoint3l7uij.png15:59
qwazixdon't hate me, but I still like sandy_locke's original more :/16:00
qwazixthe circle zooming in is a nice touch however16:01
Morpog_PChave a pic of sandy's idea again?16:05
Morpog_PCwasn't it a 45 degrees rotated square?16:05
qwazixsec16:07
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qwazixMorpog_PC, https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53739998/vkb-with-cursor-control2.png16:08
Morpog_PCah16:08
Morpog_PCi like the look16:08
qwazixmy take is something like http://play.qwazix.com/shared/tmp_trackpoint2.png and http://play.qwazix.com/shared/tmp_trackpoint3.png16:08
Morpog_PCbut how do you know you activated up when your finger is above it?16:09
Morpog_PCnice one qwazix, just a bit bigger16:09
Morpog_PCand the not activated one should be behind keys I think16:10
qwazixrefresh your page16:10
Morpog_PCbetter, maybe even bigger :)16:10
qwazixbehind keys? are you sure?16:11
Morpog_PClooks kinda strange on top I think16:11
qwazixhttp://play.qwazix.com/shared/tmp_trackpoint4.png16:12
Morpog_PCremovenah, not the activated trackpoint16:12
Morpog_PCwhen it's inactive and small of course :)16:13
Morpog_PCerr, ignore the remove16:13
qwazixah, ok16:13
qwazixI liked how sandy_locke carved out space around it16:13
Morpog_PCqwazix, yes, but I think locusf would hate us16:14
Morpog_PCin background small with less opacity could work well16:14
qwazixthis? http://play.qwazix.com/shared/tmp_trackpoint5.png16:15
Morpog_PClooks strange :)16:15
qwazixyeah, I don't like it either16:15
Morpog_PCtry it behind the keys with less opacity16:15
Morpog_PCmaybe a bit smaller16:16
qwazixhttp://play.qwazix.com/shared/tmp_trackpoint6.png16:16
Morpog_PCbit smaller and less opacity :)16:16
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qwazixreload16:17
Morpog_PCyeah betetr16:17
qwazixstill like number 416:17
qwazixit's a nice feature, it's good to be promoted IMO16:18
Morpog_PCerr, that one? http://play.qwazix.com/shared/tmp_trackpoint4.png16:18
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qwazixno sorry http://play.qwazix.com/shared/tmp_trackpoint2.png16:18
Morpog_PChow about a smaller version of that which doesn't touch the keys?16:21
qwazixit will be too small, even No6 did touch the keys and it's already too small16:21
faenilwheew, what a long day16:21
Morpog_PCtyping could get worse with this on top16:21
faenilgood afternoon guys16:21
Morpog_PCello16:21
Stskeepsgood afternoon faenil16:22
Morpog_PCfaenil, we just think about stuff to complicate your and locusf lives ,)16:22
fk_lxfaenil: hi16:22
qwazixMorpog_PC, http://play.qwazix.com/shared/tmp_trackpoint_ibm_edition.png16:23
qwazixIBM edition :P16:23
Morpog_PClol16:23
Morpog_PCmmmh, I just got an Idea16:23
Morpog_PCwhy don't we just use the G button long press for it?16:23
Morpog_PCyou could integrate the circle logo above but  behind the G character16:24
Morpog_PClong press of G activates overlay16:24
qwazixbut it looks nice where it is :-) I guess we just have different taste16:24
Morpog_PCwell, it's not only about looking, you stiill have to comfortable typing16:25
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qwazixto be frank I did think about g button first, and then when trying to find a way to communicate it I thought of IBM16:25
qwazixtapping it won't do anything anyway16:25
qwazixonly swiping from that point to somewhere else16:26
Morpog_PCsure, but people will still avoid tapping it, thats a psychlogical thing16:26
qwazixhmm...16:27
qwazixI don't know, I think if we do it in the size of the red one, but in glacier blue it won't be in the way16:28
Morpog_PCwell, we can have a check if it works well or not16:29
Morpog_PCif locusf can implement it both ways16:29
Morpog_PCand then decide16:29
Morpog_PCshould be tried on device of course16:30
qwazix:nod:16:30
faenilMorpog_PC, nice to hear xD16:34
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* faenil goes back to Page16:34
faeniloh anyway, we have a rotating page :D16:35
Morpog_PCcool16:35
qwazix\o/16:35
faenilwith toolbar (the normal one) and gradient (which is overlay of the page)16:35
faenilI'll make a short video to show you16:35
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locusfMorpog_PC: whaa?16:36
Morpog_PCmmh?16:36
locusfwhat should I implement?16:37
faenilcrap Q10 sucks at camera settings16:37
faenilcan't show you, it sucks16:38
Morpog_PCthe trackpoint16:38
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Morpog_PCqwazix, http://realnorth.net/share/nemo-logo.svg16:57
Morpog_PCmaybe add it to some repo?16:57
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Morpog_PCoh and how about using glacier colors for it?17:05
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faenilqwazix, so, basically, default background of pages is black, toolbar is black, gradient is black17:12
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Morpog_PChow about such a bootlogo?17:25
Morpog_PChttp://abload.de/img/boot_shutdown_n9hnuzz.png17:25
faenilmuch better than the current one :P17:26
Morpog_PCwhat was shutdown logo?17:27
Morpog_PCsame?17:27
faenilnope17:28
faenilit's a lightgrayish screen with Nemo logo17:28
faeniland Mer too, iirc17:28
faenilsimilar to yours, but landscape and greyish17:28
Morpog_PCwhere to find?17:28
Morpog_PCsystemd made me think it's the same logo17:28
faenilMorpog_PC, let me check code17:29
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faenilMorpog_PC, it should be in the theme folder17:30
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Morpog_PCplymouth-lite-poweroff.service says its poweroff.png which links to shutdown-nemo-800x480.png which is just the same as splash-nemo-800x480.png17:31
Morpog_PCwell, a gray version of it17:32
faenilMorpog_PC, there you go17:32
faenilhttps://github.com/nemomobile/nemo-theme-default/blob/master/lgpl/icons/graphic-shutdown-logo.png17:32
faenilit's that logo on light-grayish page17:32
faenilin landscape17:32
Morpog_PCah, ok so it's a qml page?17:32
Morpog_PCwhere this is centered?17:33
faenilMorpog_PC, https://github.com/nemomobile/lipstick-colorful-home/blob/qt5/src/qml/ShutdownScreen.qml17:33
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Morpog_PCah!17:33
faeniloh it should be a white rectangle, lol17:33
Morpog_PCthis is not doable for boot, i reckon?17:34
faenilnice colours, n950 :D17:34
faenilMorpog_PC, I'm not sure about that, I don't know how plymouth works and why we need that17:34
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Morpog_PCstrange that I don't see the shutdown logo on VM17:34
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faenilmm17:38
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Morpog_PCany reason why it's white?17:39
faenilMorpog_PC, it's just background17:40
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Morpog_PCsure, but with thought of glacier we maybe should change it to black17:41
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faenilyeah why nont17:42
faenilanyway did you read my question to qwazi17:42
faenilstandard page bg is black17:42
faeniltoolbar is blacak17:42
faenilgradient is black, so you can't see it17:42
Morpog_PCbut content on page ain't black17:43
faeniltrue, but you can't see the gradient unless there is something exactly underneath it17:45
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qwazixfaenil, yes it's all black. That's by design, gradient will only be visible when text or other elements go under it18:08
qwazixMorpog_PC, we could make "nemo" in logo white for dark backgrounds, and even make it monochrome for some uses, but I would get the authors permission before changing colors18:09
faenilqwazix, ok ;)18:11
qwazixMorpog_PC, we might want to think about the license of the specs...18:14
qwazix(and glacier as a theme too...)18:14
qwazixWhat if a corporation forks it and starts selling phones with it? Would we want the fork to be closed source?18:15
locusfhmm18:21
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Morpog_PCqwazix, good question, but isn't most parts of nemo BSD or gpl V2?18:30
qwazixeven if the question is "BSD or GPLv2?" it's still a tough one.18:31
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Morpog_PCyep18:34
Morpog_PCwe should discuss this with all of us18:34
Morpog_PC@Morpog @NemoMobile no problem, feel free to change the colors to match the #GlacialUI palette18:44
Morpog_PCapproved :)18:44
qwazixok18:49
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NeeDforKillhi guys18:51
qwazixhey18:52
NeeDforKillhow going glaicer ui?18:54
qwazixlot's of things to iron out, but we're progressing18:55
* qwazix wonders if we should patent everything18:57
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Morpog_PCwould that work? http://pastie.org/private/npjal5u5cyrwumlwee4jyq#9,1718:58
NeeDforKillglaicer concept looks very nice18:58
Morpog_PCadded L9 and changed L17 from white to black18:58
qwazixL9 probably wont work18:59
qwazixL17 should suffice18:59
Morpog_PCyeah L17 is useless without L9 :)19:00
qwazixI don't think so19:00
qwazixThe rectangle covers the whole screen19:00
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Morpog_PCah wait, default screen color is black?19:00
qwazixdoesn't matter19:01
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Morpog_PCqwazix, on line 46 to 49 that rectangle opacity is changed to 019:01
qwazixRectangle covers the whole of Item, and Items do not have color anyway19:01
Morpog_PCIf I understand that code right :)19:02
qwazixIt does, but I think it fades in from whatever it was visible before, not from white19:02
qwazix(let me check)19:02
qwazixyep, like I described19:05
Morpog_PCok, will PR and see how reviewers will react :)19:07
qwazix:)19:08
Morpog_PCshall I commit the altered nemo logo svg to glacier-controls-spec?19:15
qwazixhmm, maybe we should make another repo nemo-artwork?19:15
Morpog_PCsounds good19:16
qwazixand we should move those to nemo mobile github organization instead of our private repos19:18
Morpog_PCwho can merge there?19:19
Morpog_PCbeside the Jolla guys19:19
qwazixhttps://github.com/nemomobile?tab=members19:20
Morpog_PCah, ok19:20
qwazixI don't know if all members can merge19:20
Morpog_PCah, okĀ²19:20
qwazixMorpog_PC, I don't see any artwork related repos in nemo github, so feel free to create a new and we can transfer it when somebody gives us permission to do so19:24
Morpog_PCno license yet?19:26
Morpog_PCseems I need to chose one19:27
Morpog_PCnope19:27
qwazixartwork could probably be some cc-something, but I'm completely illiterate regarding cc licenses19:27
Morpog_PCno cc to choose from19:27
qwazixthen choose none and we add our license once we decide on it19:28
Morpog_PCyep19:28
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qwazixI'll go afk to watch a movie or sth. Cya later19:31
locusfdunno if slegdes could19:34
locusfwe alsk need opensans19:34
Morpog_PCok feel free to add related artowrk https://github.com/Morpog/nemo-artwork19:41
Morpog_PCgoing to watch a movie now too :)19:41
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NeeDforKilllocusf hi20:17
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