Tuesday, 2013-10-29

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locusfhmm it seems that qtwayland now includes the patch to fix the issues with alpha in maliit09:40
locusfI'll test this now09:40
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locusfhmm it didn't work09:41
locusfinteresting, ping w00t09:41
w00tmake sure the keyboard is 32bit (so with alpha channel)09:42
w00tyou probably patched that in the past but i bet it didn't end up applied09:42
locusfbtw I have the jolla keyboard now :/09:43
locusfhow can I make sure btw, its done in maliit-plugins keyboard?09:46
locusfand the tags don't match: https://build.merproject.org/package/binaries?package=qtwayland&project=mer%3Aqt%3Adevel&repository=latest_armv7hl09:47
locusfso I'm not even using the correct qtwayland version09:48
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locusfok, tested with correct version, same symptom09:57
locusfI hope I didn't trigger the entire nemo world to build :)09:58
Sfiet_Konstantinlocusf: too bad, you will have to rebuild the glibc09:59
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eekkelundMorning! Could i have little bit help with removing nemo rootfs and the Alt_os partition?:)10:59
eekkelundwith N910:59
sledgeseekkelund: you sound like you're coming from this:11:00
eekkelundCause moslo said "Removal of Alt_OS partition completed successfully!" but when i booted back to harmattan i didnt get those 4gb back11:01
eekkelundyes !11:01
sledgeseekkelund: please paste `fdisk /dev/mmcblk0 -l` from harmattan (or moslo)11:08
eekkelund # fdisk /dev/mmcblk0 -l  Disk /dev/mmcblk0: 15.8 GB, 15896412160 bytes 4 heads, 16 sectors/track, 485120 cylinders Units = cylinders of 64 * 512 = 32768 bytes          Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks  Id System /dev/mmcblk0p1              17      160512     5135872   c Win95 FAT32 (LBA) Partition 1 does not end on cylinder boundary /dev/mmcblk0p2          288513      419584     4194304  83 Linux /dev/mmcblk0p311:09
sledgeseekkelund: please use pastee.org next time11:10
eekkelundhah ok :)11:10
sledgesplease use now :D11:11
sledgesyour paste got trimmed11:11
* sledges wonder how did underlining got enabled randomly &)11:11
eekkelundafter /dev/mmcblk0p3 there is nothing11:13
sledgeswell there were numbers that i was after ;)11:14
* sledges looks11:14
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eekkelund160512-288512 where are those :D11:16
eekkelundmy story is like this: i had old nemo image and i wanted upgrade it to latest. and i thought that safest and easiest would be removing nemo rootfs and altos, and then installing nemo completely again :)11:18
Sfiet_Konstantineekkelund: no11:20
Sfiet_Konstantinclearly, just remove what's inside altos11:20
Sfiet_Konstantinor reformat altos11:20
Sfiet_Konstantinand re"flash" nemo in it11:21
sledgeseekkelund: he's right11:23
eekkelundyes now i know it, i made little research after my failings:D11:24
sledgeseekkelund: just create again partition 411:24
sledgesstart 16051311:24
sledgesend 28851211:24
sledgeswith fdisk /dev/mmcblk011:24
Sfiet_Konstantinsledges: isn't modified moslo able to do that automatically ?11:24
sledgesSfiet_Konstantin: no, because partitions are already resized11:24
Sfiet_Konstantinsledges: ah :(11:24
Sfiet_KonstantinI never used fdisk thouhg11:24
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sledgesi never used anything else :) so sfdisk and parted (at least one of them used by moslo) are mistery to me11:25
eekkelundmm.. sorry to be noob with this, could i have more guiding?:)11:26
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sledgeseekkelund: launch11:26
sledgesfdisk /dev/mmcblk011:26
eekkelundyes :)11:27
sledgesif does not autoselect, say number 411:28
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eekkelundit autoselected11:28
eekkelundthen that size?:)11:28
sledgesfor the start say 16051311:29
sledgesfor the end11:29
eekkelund160513-288512 likethis?11:30
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sledgeseekkelund: no11:38
sledgeswhat is fdisk asking you now?11:38
eekkelundnothing anymore, i did it you told11:39
eekkelundi justdont know how to exit.....11:39
sledgespress p11:39
sledgessee if the layout is ok11:39
sledges(you can pastee it again)11:40
eekkelundi did it how you told*11:40
sledgesah ok, i got scared you entered exactly 160513-288512 :)11:40
eekkelundhaha no:D11:41
sledgeseekkelund: very good11:42
sledgesnow press11:42
eekkelund!! yeah11:42
Merboteekkelund: Error: "!" is not a valid command.11:42
sledgesit's not over :p11:43
eekkelundoh okay:D11:43
sledgesyou have to format it11:43
sledges`/sbin/mkfs.ext3 /dev/mmcblk0p4`11:43
eekkelundlike in wiki11:43
sledgesis it? :D11:43
eekkelundi think11:44
sledgesyes lol11:44
sledges-L 'Alt_OS'11:44
sledgesmkfs.ext4 -L 'Alt_OS' /dev/mmcblk0p411:44
sledgesthat's better11:44
sledgeswon't get you lost11:44
eekkelundgood :D11:44
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eekkelundbin/sh: /sbin/mkfs.ext3: not found11:45
sledgesok, reboot to moslo :D11:45
eekkelundrootfs of altos now exported via usb11:48
sledgesso on your host you're in linux i presum ;)11:49
Merbotsledges: Error: "yes" is not a valid command.11:50
sledgesgo to terminal and do11:50
sledgesdmesg | tail11:51
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eekkelundlike this http://goo.gl/zpx93V11:52
sledgesvery good11:53
sledgesnow do11:53
sledgessudo mkfs.ext4 -L 'Alt_OS' /dev/mmcblk0p411:53
sledgessudo mkfs.ext4 -L 'Alt_OS' /dev/sdc11:53
locusfalready mounted?11:54
eekkelunddev/sdc is entire device, not just one partition! Proceed anyway? (y,n)11:54
sledgesyou mean11:55
sledgesafter you ran that command11:55
sledgesit mounted?11:55
sledgessorry locusf didn't see your question11:55
sledgesno, it's not mounted11:55
sledgeseekkelund: ^11:55
sledgesno worries chaps :)11:56
eekkelunddev/sdc is mounted; will not make a filesystem here!11:56
eekkelundnow after command11:56
locusftold ya11:56
sledgesi cannot be mounted sdc: unknown partition table11:56
locusfcheck dmesg sledges11:56
sledgessudo umount /dev/sdc11:56
sledgesyou win locusf11:56
sledgesmeh this is nuts :D unformatted partition got mounted ;)11:57
sledgessudo mkfs.ext4 -L 'Alt_OS' /dev/sdc11:57
sledgeseekkelund: good12:00
sledgesall worked12:00
sledgesnow open your file manager and click on Alt_OS to automount it12:00
eekkelundso my n9 was tool of competition?:D12:01
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sledgeseekkelund: you know what to do from now ;)12:04
eekkelundone more question?:) what nemo image i should use? i read somewhere that newest one has bugs?12:04
sledgeswhich nemo would you like to try? latest greatest unusable here be dragons?12:04
sledgesor a usable but not latest one?12:04
locusfhttps://db.tt/NAwpxYQg here is latest12:05
sledgesnemo has switched to Qt5 and Wayland12:05
sledgesand is currently WiP12:05
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locusfbut the icons are cute :)12:05
sledgesanyone could contribute, from testing to developing, from graphics design to artwork12:05
sledgesi.e. user experience (UX) design navigation/brainstorming, to drawing icons :)12:06
sledgeseekkelund: or just click around and update everyday to see what's being worked on ;)12:06
locusfyeah we need people :)12:07
sledgeseekkelund: the 'greatest' nemo will look like this: play.qwazix.com/grog/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/SystemUI.png12:07
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sledgesthat's what's being worked upon12:07
eekkelundthat sailfishsdk/nemo looks cool! oh haha yeaah is that that glacier ui? :312:09
sledgesthe choice is yours :} that's what GNU/Linux is all about ;)12:09
eekkelundi would love to help some how, but as you can see^ im not that good..:D12:10
sledgesall cards are on the table eekkelund ;)12:10
sledgesim sure you're great at least in one above12:11
eekkelundso what do you sledges recommend as greatest image what is now usable?:)12:11
locusflatest hasnleast bugs thus far12:12
stephgbtw I think the light sensor does work I think12:13
sledgeseekkelund: just try it out first12:13
sledgeswill also show you glacier components gallery ;)12:13
sledgeswhich you will have to install manually (we'll tell)12:14
stephgthe other week (when I didn't have the wayland stuff installed byt also didn't have the X stuff either, the boot splash definitely changed brightness in different light12:14
locusfstephg: yeah it does work12:15
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eekkelundlatest it is then :) thanks a lot sledges and locusf!:)) i hope i could somehow contribute..:)12:17
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sledgesenjoy! im sure you will if you like linux in your pocket ;)12:21
eekkelunda lot!12:25
sledgesyou welcome :)12:25
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eekkelundi didnt know that people here are so help full:)12:28
locusfwe try our best :)12:29
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eekkelundi want to help too, so: https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Contribution12:34
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Morpog_N9_it's a great bunch of people12:53
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zbenjaminhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGz-NIBZwEw lol12:55
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zbenjaminsledges: didn't we talk about the modular phones?14:28
zbenjaminnow it happens14:28
zbenjaminsledges: we need one now so we can port nemo to it ;)14:29
sledgeszbenjamin: yup read about that #jollamobile and #sailfish :) all over the place!14:30
sledgesseen as copycat jolla14:30
sledgesbut also interesting to read the comments ;)14:30
sledgesvery skeptic receival of a Lego phone14:30
sledgesSfiet had a point, it's awesome for geeks (remember we all like to assemble our desktops and laptops from bits when we buy them)14:31
sledgesbut mass market target is under a big question mark14:31
zbenjaminyeah true14:31
zbenjaminwell depends, if its easy to replace something that broke14:31
zbenjaminlike really removing 2 screws and plug in something new14:32
zbenjaminthe phones have to come preassembled of course14:32
sledgesthe most often thing that breaks in today's mobile phones is the TS+LCD ;)14:32
zbenjaminlike mist desktops do14:32
sledgesis what im fixing friends' phones 99%14:32
zbenjaminah touchscreen ;)14:32
sledgesbut replaceability feature is attractive (like the other half, but taken to another level)14:33
sledgesand modular design HW wise i always said looks like a terra incognita, and very interested what motorola would come up14:33
sledgesand whether they will make other businesses chip in (literally ;))14:33
zbenjaminheh ;)14:33
zbenjaminwell it targets android, so we should be able to run on it14:34
zbenjaminif its not locked down14:34
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zbenjaminbut how totally wrong would it be to build a modular phone but close the sw down , maybe we even look at the next nexus14:35
zbenjaminthats perfect for a developer phone, just replace the slow cpu and pack in some memory and you are good to go14:35
mordmaking something like that available would make no sense without coordinating with module manufacturers so that an array of pluggable bits were available at launch14:36
mordjust the promise of "you can replace this thing here" is unlikely to win any buyers if no options are immediately available14:37
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sledgesbut no 3rd party manufacturer will build anything before launch14:43
sledgesso motorola will have to produce a sufficient bunch of modules themselves14:44
sledgesand make it deliberately cheap ;) so other can 'produce a better replacement' :)14:45
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locusfis there a way to tweak github emails?15:01
locusffilter worked ok15:20
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alteregoI was talking about modular phones last week.15:49
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alteregoI was thinking that screens, which are a substantial cost, don't really have to be replaced from phone-to-phone.15:50
alteregoI'd be happy with an 800x480 still.15:50
sledgeswe were talking that screen is the most frequently broken bit15:51
sledgesdefeats the purpose of modular design from that perspective15:51
sledgesbut surely there are other benefits15:52
alteregoIt might be, but by separating those components, you're free to replace each as you wish.15:53
alteregoAnd you don't have to buy a whole new phone, which is what most normal people do when they break a screen ..15:53
sledgestrue, (even though you just said that screens don't really have to be replaced from phone-to-phone)15:54
sledgesbut the point was - all other bits on the phone practically don't break15:54
sledgesratio of camera lens to LCD broken is ~1:10015:54
alteregoPlus, if you're careful, then you don't have to replace your screen and you could just upgrade the device module.15:55
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alteregoI'd like a 3 tiered device. 1) Screen. 2) Device. 3) Battery & Connectivity, Camera, Speakers, etc.15:55
sledgesnever-the-less, testing your phone underwater causes different bits to stop working (but not all)15:56
alteregoWe're talking about waterproof phones now? :)15:56
sledgesor a friend drove over his phone while parking, replaced the screen, but GPS never worked again15:56
sledgesno, we are talking about conventional - the non-waterproof ones15:57
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alteregoProbably cracked the antenna.15:57
sledgesim sure he checked that (my ex colleague), lol worth pointing out15:57
alteregoWell, it'd be the most obvious thing I guess, as it's the largest part of a GPS setup.15:59
alteregoAnd GPS antenna are extremely sensitive :)15:59
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locusfhumm interesting stuff on UX, could you take a look at this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEvhxJKTQK8 Morpog_N9_ qwazix and tell me about your thoughts reflecting this view of UX to Glacier?16:06
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* zbenjamin is so busy these days... not even time for nemo stuff :(16:09
locusfalso the second part is quite interesting too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCpp0W-znJ016:09
locusfzbenjamin: me too, figuring out my thesis stuff + exams16:09
locusfI should continue on the slider16:10
zbenjaminlocusf: lots of stuff to do @ work ...16:10
locusfzbenjamin: ah you're at work stuff, good :)16:10
zbenjaminalso on moving my gf's stuff away from her second apartment16:11
zbenjaminfixing lots of stuff on my house16:11
zbenjaminpreparing to hopefully sell it next year16:11
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Sfiet_Konstantinzbenjamin, locusf same16:17
Sfiet_Konstantinno time for Nemo :(16:17
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locusfSfiet_Konstantin: didn't you have the project work on Nemo?16:21
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alteregoKind of wish my computer had eye tracking.19:37
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qwazixlocusf, I don't necessarily agree with the guy...20:58
qwazixI mean all the theory has some sense, but when he started talking about products, I think he kind of lost it, or used a wrong example20:59
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qwazixThe iPhone especially is something that one could say is being designed with that philosophy in mind. It isn't the multitouch that made the iPhone great, nor kinetic scrolling. It's that the average person could do so many things easily and worry-free.21:01
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qwazixStay connected, capture photos, surf the internet...21:02
qwazix(yeah there were smartphones before the iPhone but I don't know anybody who even knew his N95 could do email)21:02
qwazixThis whole design philosophy however means hiding things from the user, locking him down, and we don't want to do that. We're always going to be an enthusiast mobile OS, and people like us like to experience the technology as is.21:05
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qwazixSo in a way, we're still thinking about our users' experience when we expose our technology at the outer level. It might sound silly but it's an awesome experience for any geek to see the terminal front and center when he navigates to the app grid :)21:08
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* ryukafalz agrees with the terminal thing :P21:12
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alteregoI think the average user of high-end smart phones is probably someone that wants a terminal.21:18
alteregoSysadmins, etc.21:18
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ryukafalzNow that I'm not sure I agree with.  In my experience the average user of high-end smartphones is someone who doesn't know anything about phones but just bought the fancy new thing21:22
alteregoYeah, thinking about it, you're probably right. I'm just going by my nerd friends ...21:24
alteregoI suppose I know a few girls with S3s and one non-tech gamer type with a S421:24
alteregoMy nerd friends seem to love the Nexus 421:24
alterego3 of them got the same one.21:24
alteregoI still lean slightly towards maybe an Xperia Z21:25
alteregoAs my next hybris experiment :)21:25
ryukafalzOh, I wish I had a Nexus 421:25
ryukafalzMy current phone is a CDMA Galaxy Nexus21:25
ryukafalzAnd our nerd friends are very rarely an indicator of the general population ;)21:26
alteregoMeh, they don't care21:26
alteregoBecause they don't care :P21:26
alteregoHrm, I should have said: They do not matter, because they don't care :)21:26
alteregoBoth groups require the same things, it's just one requires a bit more.21:26
ryukafalzhaha yep21:26
alteregoThis is why I like the "developer mode" or "power user" mode or something.21:27
alteregoI quite like how they hide it in Android and in Harmattan, but it's there if you need it.21:27
ryukafalzAndroid's is clever, confused me when it disappeared after an update though21:28
ryukafalzHow does Harmattan do it?21:28
zbenjamini would always prefer a nexus, you don'T need to jailbreak it21:28
* ryukafalz also wishes he had an N921:28
alteregoMeh, I've not jailbroken my Nexus 721:29
ryukafalzMy N7 is running Android, Ubuntu Touch, and Plasma Active21:29
alteregoJust unlocked the bootloader, that's all I care about really. I don't like Android, and don't plan on using it on there for much longer.21:29
zbenjaminryukafalz: N9 seems to die atm, we can't get a decent performance out of the driver21:29
alteregoMy goal is to have Mer installed on the device, with my own UI, side-by-side with Android, so I can use the applications from the Android install, from within my Mer based system.21:30
alteregoSimples. :)21:30
alteregoThat way I can use all the Android apps I use (all 4 of them) and I have a much nicer system to use as my tablet.21:31
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zbenjaminalterego: sounds just like sailfish ;)21:32
alteregoMy own hobby UX21:32
alteregoIt's more of a research project really.21:32
alteregoI don't plan on using any sailfish specific stuff.21:33
ryukafalzalterego: I just hope I'll be able to get a Mer/Android dual-boot going haha21:34
ryukafalzrunning multirom on my N7 at the moment21:34
alteregoryukafalz: on what device?21:34
alteregoAh N721:34
alteregoWell, that's what I'm working on right now actually :)21:34
ryukafalzThere's an image packer for Plasma Active images, which are Mer-based, but I'm not sure how much of it is PA-specific21:34
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alteregoWouldn't take much to change a .ks to use wayland and nemo ux.21:35
alteregoSeveral people have managed it already.21:35
alteregoMy current work is making it easier for people to create and customise their own adaptations for these devices.21:36
alteregoEffectively with one command, it creates kernel, libhybris, configs and adaptation packages for a chosen Android device. They are branched in your own git repo. It creates OBS packages using git-pkg and will submit them to your OBS project.21:37
ryukafalzOoh, cool21:37
alteregoNot done completely yet, but it will also create a wireframe/template .ks to get you started.21:37
ryukafalzThe device I'm really interested in running Nemo on is my Galaxy Nexus, so I'll be taking a look at that myself later on :P21:38
ryukafalzsince it is supported by cyanogenmod21:38
alteregoI'm working on an initramfs at the moment, allows easy flashing and debugging.21:38
ryukafalzbut it seems like I'm always busy when I stop in here haha21:38
alteregoYeah, cyanogen repos are what I'm using for this.21:39
ryukafalzI'm looking forward to giving it a try :)21:39
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alteregoWell, configs done, kernel is done, libhybris is done, once I've done initramfs, it's then on to the base images.21:40
ryukafalzIf that really does make it easy to get Nemo up and running on devices supported by cyanogen, it'll be huge21:40
ryukafalzbecause that's how many devices? ;)21:40
alteregoI think 17021:40
alteregoBut there are issues, can't target all of them just yet.21:40
ryukafalzAhh okay21:40
alteregoThe sources are a mess and inconsitent so allowances have to be made for some devices, currently I've got a black list of 10.21:41
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ryukafalzStill way better than what we have for native support haha21:41
alteregoSome kernel trees are not clean and have kernel images in the source tree.21:41
alteregoThe kernels are supplied by different vendors, and are subject to whatever spoon of an idea they come up with for organisation and structure.21:42
alteregoThis is why no Android kernel is 1/1 with mainline Linux.21:42
alteregoThat and the Google Android extensions to the kernel that are not also in Linux.21:42
alteregoAnd finally, some devices are too old and wont work with libhybris, so modifications to libhybris would need to be made to support older Android versions.21:43
ryukafalzWeren't they working on merging those upstream?21:43
alteregoMaybe, about 4 years ago.21:43
alteregoNo one is going to want "Android" in the Linux kernel ;)21:44
alteregoFeatures they have implemented, extended, whatever, would need to be named generically, and that's only if they're welcome. For instance, I'm not really sure I see much point in having the RAM logger they have in the kernel.21:45
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mike7b4_on_x230trying make image for n9 from Wayland kickstartfile but fails with repo problem: pattern:nemo-n950-wayland-.noarch requires pattern:nemo-complete-wayland, but this requirement cannot be provided, uninstallable providers: pattern:nemo-complete-wayland-.noarch[nemo-ux]21:46
alteregoBut like I said, that's only half the problem, at least Google are consistent with what they do. But unfortunately what vendors do with Android rarely is. CyanogenMod is handly, because they ease the differences between these vendor abominations. But it looks like even they have given up on creating an "uber-clean-kernel" which it looks like they were doing until not-so-long ago.21:47
alteregoBut now they just patch vendor trees .21:47
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alteregoYou need to maintain binary compatibility with the proprietary-blobs you see :)21:49
alteregoOtherwise nothing will work ;)21:49
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alteregoI guess my hope would be, that Mer running on all these things, will make chipset manufactures realise that it would be much better if they wrote and released better code.21:50
alteregoAnd pushed it upstream.21:51
alteregoHey vgrade, how goes it?21:51
vgradeok. trainig course this week, so double work21:52
alteregoyeah, busy, trying to be more active too, going swimming three days a week, two mornings and one evening.21:54
alteregoAnd trying to stay out of the pub ;)21:54
alteregoWhat's the training for?21:54
vgradepalamida, license scanning tool21:55
vgradegrep + 80TB OSS database21:56
alteregoThat sounds wonderful.21:56
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vgradetool is ok, more intersting is watching the auditing process being done21:57
alteregoWell, as long as it's not like watching paint drying ;)21:57
vgradethe manual step once the code has been scanned21:58
alteregoLike the 50th time I compiled Linux over the past few days ;)21:58
vgradequite interesting findings we've made, things we did not expect to find21:59
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vgradeblock of code pasted into a larger block from some random guys blog!22:00
vgradeprogramming by google22:00
Stskeepsi really think that if an accurate analysis and enforcement of copyright in all computer code was done, we'd have to start from scratch22:01
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Stskeepsie, back to the dark ages22:01
alteregoWe should make all the keys on your keyboard finger print readers, so we can encode your biometric data into your source code as you type :)22:02
alteregoOr just get rid of software patents ..22:02
vgradeStskeeps: been slow progress today, lawyers involved22:05
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alteregoWell, this looks positive.22:05
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alteregoNo back to doing kickstarts, then I'm done!22:09
alterego~Now ..22:09
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