Saturday, 2013-11-16

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thomas_schtime to go to bed :) thx and good night faenil00:11
sledgesthomas_sch: what did you run ics on?00:19
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thomas_schsledges: just an old huawei phone x300:28
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sledgesc00l :) welcome to nemo, speak to you later :)00:33
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DocScrutinizer05<faenil> we have to write UI components (started already). then rewrite all core apps with those components04:26
DocScrutinizer05oh yeah, been there, seen that getting done. 5 times already04:26
DocScrutinizer05completed/finalized: ZILCH04:27
DocScrutinizer05not to start talking about _the_ _apps_04:28
DocScrutinizer05commonly attributed as "the ecosystem"04:28
DocScrutinizer05as long as you can reuse normal X11 apps and only slightly adapt them to a different set of "decoration", you can get quite a number of apps almost for free04:37
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faenilDocScrutinizer05, yes, it doesn't take long, it only takes a few people actively working on it ;)09:00
faenilbtw, morning people o/09:00
dm8tbrgood moaning09:04
dm8tbrany plans for the weekend?09:04
dm8tbrcoming to visit us in herwood for lunch or dinner?09:05
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dm8tbrfaenil: sure, can also meet downtown09:23
faenil2h just to be there and back is a bit long time :D09:23
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faenilunless you know of a shorter way ofc09:23
dm8tbrdon't have a car09:24
dm8tbrso you are not willing to take that upon you for free lunch/dinner and whisky? tsssssk...09:25
faenilI meant, maybe some alternative bus, don't know09:25
dm8tbrso where are you?09:25
faenildm8tbr, ahaha well it's tempting, it's just that I hate public transport :D and if I come there it means I have to be back at like 22:3009:25
faenildm8tbr, harmala09:25
dm8tbrhmm, that's not far from the bus line 609:26
dm8tbrreittiopas says 38min for a combination of 1/3009:28
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faenildm8tbr, yes, on one way09:29
faenilthe way back should be 50mins09:29
dm8tbrwould be the closest bus stop for line 6, but I don't think it operates on weekends09:29
faenil2521 is where I live09:30
faenilno 6 on weekends it seems09:31
aard_faenil: you don't have a bike? :p09:32
dm8tbrwe can also meet for a nice refreshing walk in arboretum09:32
faenilaard_, nu :(09:32
faenildm8tbr, nah I have to come there sooner or later :D09:32
dm8tbrfaenil: want to borrow one, I just bought riussi's bike09:32
faenildm8tbr, as we're going towards the winter I'm not sure I'd use it :D but thanks :)09:33
faenilI'd use to come there today :D09:33
dm8tbralso you have the Jolla to play with during the bus rides I don't see the problem ;)09:33
faenilbut I have to come there to get it first, so D:09:33
dm8tbrbike is at HVT3009:34
faenildm8tbr, nice point09:34
dm8tbrbtw: picked up a microsim replacement at Sonera store yesterday. The guys jaw dropped once he saw where I was inserting it...09:36
dm8tbrmissed my bus because he wanted to have it demoed09:36
faenilahaha :D09:37
dm8tbrhe also seemed quite interested in the fact if it will be locked to the DNA network and why sonera isn't going to sell it ;)09:39
faenildm8tbr, so, what time can I come? I'm bored here so anytime is okay :D09:39
faenilahah lol09:39
dm8tbrif you want to help cooking you can come over right now09:40
dm8tbrI haven't made any lunch plans yet, but I'm starting to get hungry09:40
faenilmm not sure I can meet your expectations :D showe + bus, it would take at least 1309:41
dm8tbrwell you can also just make it for lunch :)09:42
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* dm8tbr goes to check on the fridge what it's going to be09:48
dm8tbrI can defrost some steaks, or chili stew (mild or nuclear), I could also prep some wok or other food with chicken.09:50
dm8tbrfaenil: what are your preferences?09:50
faenildm8tbr, I hate onion :D apart from that, I can swallow the rest :D09:51
dm8tbrI love onion but it gives me digestive problems. So that's compatible.09:51
dm8tbrI'll consult with maria and start cooking.09:52
dm8tbrDrop off at the stop "Ahvenisjärvi" (one after Duo shopping centre)09:52
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faenilo/ evening16:54
artemmaanybody with a real Jolla device here?16:57
artemmaI've got an RPM with a flash testing app to try16:57
faenilartemma, me, but I cannot test software sorry17:01
artemmafaenil: I just got test results on mailing list17:02
artemmaand they are just as I hoped! :)17:02
faenilokay,good ;)17:02
artemmathanks for caring to answer anywway17:02
faenilyeah I read the thread17:02
artemmaI still need more clarification though17:02
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locusfartemma: I could test but only on my N917:31
locusfno real device here yet :)17:31
artemmait's a pity17:31
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artemmaI have just got a confirmation on a mailing list that my approach for flash control works!17:32
artemmaneed more details for choosing the best parameters though17:32
artemmalocusf: I thought u were part of jolla17:32
locusfartemma: lol, just part of the community :)17:33
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MSameerartemma: just ping me if you need more testing ;)18:25
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artemmaMSameer: here's RPM -
artemmaand here are questions -
MSameera new one?18:28
artemmawell, latest. version as of few hours ago18:28
MSameerartemma: I am the same guy who have just answered your questions :-)18:28
artemmaah, cool! :)18:28
MSameerjust if you need farther testing or if you have farther questions18:29
artemmawell, basically I just want people to play with the controls n a darkish environment and tell which combination of timings works best18:29
artemmain* a darkish environment18:29
artemmaand also whether there is some clear (or clearish) dependency between timings and result18:30
artemmae.g. the less interval, the more light maybe. Or the earlier unlock() the more light18:30
artemmaI would use it to build the meaningful power slider18:30
MSameerartemma: i pushed the last slider to the max (500)18:32
MSameerartemma: and the other slider to 4 (could not get 1)18:32
MSameerartemma: and that seems to give the best results18:32
MSameerartemma: and please please unlock always18:32
artemmareally… hmm. That's unlocking timer18:32
artemmalemme adjust the build so that you could set for even longer18:33
MSameerok :)18:33
artemmaand the locking timer interval? No noticeable effect at all?18:33
artemmaI mean searching interval18:33
MSameeris that the 2nd slider or last?18:33
artemmauhm.. I need to adjust code that next search happens after unlock then..18:34
MSameeryes try that too18:34
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artemma2nd slider tells how soon after search() start we unlock18:34
MSameerlock, get signal, unlock and lock again ...18:34
artemmaah indeed, I can unlock after camera went into search mode. Currently I start unlock timer right after command to search18:34
MSameerartemma: there is a problem if you don't unlock and the user closes the app -> led will stay on18:35
artemmaapp can get an app closing signal18:36
MSameerartemma: that's why unlock is needed. I filed an internal bug for myself to fix that :p18:36
MSameerartemma: but if you crash, get killed, minimized, ... then it'd be an issue18:36
artemmaMSameer: I totally don't mind unlocking, looks like a proper practice. But if violating it will make LED show light all the time..18:36
MSameerartemma: let me try again18:36
* artemma is looking for a signal/property to tell that search has been started18:37
artemmaaha! lockStatus: Searching18:38
MSameerartemma: if I disable unlocking and drag the slider as low as possible then it's the best result18:38
MSameerartemma: but led will stay on after i close the app18:38
artemmahmm.. that means restarting searchandlock as quickly as possible and never unlocking it..18:38
MSameerso i cannot blame you but it's a misuse of the api which exposed a bug so i don't know what to do now :/18:39
artemmado u think that unlocking once per 20 searchAndLocks should be ok API wise?18:39
MSameerartemma: exactly. you start it all the time but camera will ignore your attempts as long as it's trying to acquire focus already18:39
artemmaor should there be precisely one unlock per one search?18:40
artemmaIf unlocking once is enough, I can make sure app calls it on exit18:40
MSameerdo you want the correct approach or the one which will work now and break later ? ;)18:40
artemmaI totally want a future proof one that will work now too :)18:40
MSameerthen one unlock per lock18:41
artemmathat's exactly why I am asking: trying to predict future api ecolution18:41
MSameerthat's the correct way18:41
artemmait it18:41
artemma's the correct way, so be it18:41
MSameerartemma: to be honest flashlight will be fixed when the torch api works anyway18:41
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MSameeri just can't provide info on when it will be available18:41
artemmaI just wonder logically what's bad if camera wants to restart searchAndLock. Like if user's not happy with the first trial18:42
artemmaMSameer: I will just to Torch API on the same day18:42
MSameerartemma: it's a limitation of hal18:42
artemmain fact I already have a Torch API based app ready. rejected in harbor of course :)18:42
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MSameerartemma: sorry for that18:42
artemmawell, I do hope you guys reject not working apps, so it's sorta good :)18:43
MSameerlet's see how many of my apps will make it :D18:43
artemmaokay, now I'll redo app to make sure one unlock happens exactly after one search and then we play with timers again18:43
artemmato be honest I am surprised to see that with so small number of apps it takes 4 days to get through the QA queue18:44
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artemmaif dashboard tells real numbers of submitted apps, I'd expect 1-2 full time QA persons to make a review in one day18:44
MSameeri am really on the sw/hw side and try to run away from these things. i cannot tell :/18:45
artemmaMSameer: BTW, did flash mode change have any effect? That's top slider. 0 is manual19:03
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artemmaHaha, interestingly emulator camera is able to lock and unlock just fine :)19:05
artemmaso I can debug tester on emulator (to check if all timers, locks and unlocks are executed when expected)19:05
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MSameerartemma: i remember it stopped when i switched it but i really left it as it is19:11
MSameer(focus slider)19:12
artemmaI was interesed in checking FocusContinuous, but I just figured out it's 16 :/19:12
artemmaso simp slider won't work. Will do a clever one with proper values now19:12
artemmaactually default value 0 means.. not Manual.. Manual is 1 :/19:13
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MSameerwhat's 0 then? :)19:16
artemmano idea19:16
artemmamaybe treated as unknown and falls back to manual19:16
MSameeri can check19:16
artemmayou know the code :)19:16
MSameerartemma: qt code is open19:17
artemmayes, but you know it, I don't :)19:17
artemmahmm, then maybe Manual improves everything automagically!19:18
MSameeri am only the gstreamer and below guy19:18
* artemma needs 5 min more to finish code19:18
artemmaoh.. me remembers his streamer times. Was doing a SW side of a Skype based video call solution. Was tough19:18
MSameerartemma: auto is fine too19:19
artemmaI am not sure as Auto can stop searching when it's focused. While manual might search forever19:20
artemmawell, that was your idea if i remember correctly :)19:20
MSameerauto focus mode is not continuous auto focus mode19:21
MSameerthey are different ;)19:21
MSameerQCameraFocus::AutoFocus0x8One-shot auto focus mode.19:22
MSameerQCameraFocus::ContinuousFocus0x10Continuous auto focus mode.19:22
artemmaah, focus modes are bit based19:22
artemmajust discovered it myself.. so you can.. combine them19:23
MSameerto be honest i have no idea what 0 is. I need to dig through the camera backend but i cannot do that now19:23
MSameerbut I see that the focus being set is auto19:23
artemmahmm.. I wonder if some combination of flags could work better then19:23
artemmalike continuous manual maybe19:24
MSameeri don't think so :)19:24
artemmaanyway, I completed next iteration19:24
artemmawould you be willing to try?19:24
artemmanow it unlocks properly. After given number of ms after Locked or after Searching19:25
artemmabuilding arm version..19:25
MSameerif the code is public then i can clone it and rebuild too if needed19:25
MSameerif it makes your life easier19:26
artemmaoh, it is public19:27
artemmaI am generating short links to make it easier if you are on IRC from the phone :)19:27
artemmaor if you type URL to phone19:27
MSameeri am at home so no worries19:27
MSameercan't use irc much from phone (tiny screen no matter how large it is)19:27
* artemma remembers time when he was using IRC from pocketpc to chat with his ex-wife. Romantic times these were19:30
artemmafingers crossed19:31
artemmathere might be some magic combination of lock-unlocks19:31
artemmae.g. maybe we wait for Locked mode and then unlock and search ASAP19:31
artemmain a manual mode19:31
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MSameershould I check "unlock after locking" ?19:32
artemmatry both19:32
artemmaslider description should change accordingly19:32
artemmathat's the point from which unlocking timer starts. Either from Searching or only after camera is fully Locked19:32
MSameeri hate to disappoint you but the previous one was better19:34
MSameernow i am unable to find anything reasonable wrt led19:34
MSameeri get small pulses of led19:34
MSameercannot yet figure out how to make them longer19:35
artemmaHmm, the the previous one was doing unlocks too actually19:35
artemmaas long as unlock timer was smaller then search timer19:35
MSameerflash on checked19:36
MSameerunlock checked19:36
artemmaactually the current version should be identical to the pref one if FocusMode is auto and "Unlock after Locked (not just searching)" is false19:36
MSameerfocus manual19:36
MSameerfirst slider 43 ms19:37
MSameer2nd slider 7 ms19:37
MSameeror 019:37
MSameernow there is a difference between dark and light19:38
MSameerdark room -> fast pulses19:38
MSameernormal light  -> longer pulses19:38
artemma"Unlock after Locked (not just searching)"?19:38
artemmado they look like fast enough to find keys or a keyhole? I mean would you for example you such a flashlight?19:39
artemmaI guess it's mode important how long is delay between pulses19:39
MSameerthe previous version produced better results in dark areas19:39
artemmamore* important19:39
artemmafunny. the current version should be identical to the previous one if FocusMode is auto and "Unlock after Locked (not just searching)" is false19:39
MSameerlet me try19:40
artemmaor nearly identical19:40
* artemma assumes camera enters Searching mode instantly19:40
MSameerpulses are fast19:41
MSameerthey are not as long as the previous one19:41
artemmaand well, if pref version was better (for whichever reason, then it was better). Can you tell the best values for it?19:42
artemmaHere's the link for that previous version (build 09) -
artemmayou can also play with focus mode slider. As we now know 0 is Auto, 1 is manual19:43
artemmaI am sorry for asking for so many trials. If I had a device at hand, I would just spend an hour or two trying all possible combinations of everything19:44
MSameeri think we need someone else's opinion here19:44
artemmaYou sound like there's no clear dependency from the slider values (meaning that meaningful "Power" slider is impossible)19:45
MSameerthe issue is if we invoke a timer fast then it affects the smoothness of the ui too and might be affecting something else deep below19:45
artemmaWell, for right now I'll be fine with any OKish combination of values. Something good enough for you to find a keyhole. If there's any sort of Power-like dependency - that's bonus. Final values I'll adjust when I get device - just want to get something OKish by the launch moment19:46
artemmaMSameer: I don't think timers would affect UI smoothness19:46
artemmaJS timers anyway have something like 16ms granularity19:47 web browsers at least19:47
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artemmacamera lock I hope is happening in another thread. Calling camera once in 16ms is nothing for CPU19:47
MSameerartemma: back to 11 release, i can get long pulses in a dark room19:49
MSameerartemma: but i cannot get them fast enough (period of darkness is large)19:49
* artemma is all ears19:49
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artemmaeven if "Unlock after Locked (not just searching)" is off and 2nd time is small?19:50
artemmaand 2nd slider* is small?19:50
MSameerartemma: manual focus, unlocked after lock _not checked_19:50
artemmahmm, it seems to indicate that unlock is to happen even before camera is Searching..19:51
MSameerand both sliders around 1500ms19:51
artemmaor maybe camera never enters Searching19:51
artemmamove 1st slider to zero19:52
artemmain your current values app waits for 1.5 sec before starting to search() again19:52
artemmain your current values app waits for 1.5 sec after Unlocked before starting to search() again19:52
MSameerartemma: that seems to work fine in a dark room19:53
MSameersecond slider ~1500, first 019:53
MSameerthere are moments of no led but they vary19:53
MSameerbut i got led stuck wfter closing the app19:53
MSameerso there is an unlock missing apparently19:54
artemmaMSameer: led stuck I'll fix, current code just doesn't track it very well19:54
artemmaactually currently it doesn't monitor app exit at all19:54
MSameerartemma: but also note that the pulses will vary depending on the light but i tested in a dark room19:54
artemmathe rest of situations are probably fine, but I didn't verify 100%. I optimize for availability of kind ppl in this chat room :)19:54
MSameerwhich is the main use case I assume ;)19:55
artemmaokay, just to verify the final good settings:19:55
MSameerfeel free to ping me for testing. I cannot promise I will always do but I will do my best19:55
artemmaFocus Manual, first slider 0, 2nd slider 1500, unlocked after lock _not checked_ - correct?19:55
MSameerlet me go to the dark room to double checlk19:56
artemmait would also be great if you could tell whether any slider movement behaves power slider-like19:56
artemmaor more/less strobe like19:56
* artemma wants to add one slider to the button in the flashlight app19:57
MSameerartemma: that seems fine19:57
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MSameerartemma: increasing the value of the last slider beyone a limit (i don't know the limit yet) will give strobes19:57
MSameerbut i really think we should not do it now. will not be easy to test and adjust properly19:58
artemmaand observed behavior with these best values is like "about 1.5sec of light that short break (abt 100ms?) that 1.5s light again"?19:58
artemmaokay. If there is no clear power-like behavior, then we shouldn't do it. I just hoped one of the sliders will behave like a strobe control19:59
artemmaand observed behavior with these best values is like "about 1.5sec of light that short break (abt 100ms?) than* 1.5s light again"?19:59
MSameerit will behave like a strobe control indeed but it will be a "random" control ;)19:59
artemmahmm, randomize me slider! :)19:59
artemmaWe'll call it "Funk level" :)20:00
* artemma recalls some funk animated video clip with Putin doing it all at funk level 11 while all the robots break earlier20:00
artemmathis one -
artemmasorry to annoy again, but just ant to understand20:03
artemmais observed behavior with these best values is like "about 1.5sec of light that short break (abt 100ms?), then 1.5s light again"?20:03
MSameernot sure about 1.520:04
MSameermaybe yes but i am not sure20:04
artemmatell what it feels like to you20:04
MSameeri can time it for you :)20:04
artemmasure exact numbers are not important20:04
artemmaso long(ish) 1-3 sec period of light, then short (100-300) ms dark, then light again?20:05
* artemma just figured that he washed 17.60 euros out.. two lunch coupons were in jeans20:06
MSameerartemma: yes around 1.520:06
MSameerartemma: darkness period varies, can be 200ms maybe or 5020:06
MSameerartemma: sorry for that20:06
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artemmaMSameer: thanks a lot again! Now I know the flashlight is possible for lunch, know what to do and even have an option for the funkiness slider!20:09
MSameerartemma: glad to have helped you Artem :)20:10
MSameerkeep up the good work!20:11
artemmafor launch*20:23
artemmaI'll try, thanks :)20:23
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