Thursday, 2013-11-28

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sandy_lockefor people around, a new post I made on qwazix 's blog : http://play.qwazix.com/grog/?p=66503:21
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sledgesg_morning08:08
jussimorning mr sledges08:12
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zbenjaminmorning08:13
fk_lxhi guys08:14
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Stskeepsmorn08:15
DocScrutinizer05no fatalities?08:19
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fk_lxDocScrutinizer05: nope :-P08:22
Stskeepsnot a LG event08:22
DocScrutinizer05:-)08:22
stephgMORNING08:22
stephg(for all those with sore heads)08:22
Stskeepsstephg: @@$@$08:22
stephgshhh!08:22
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crevetorCongrate yall08:33
crevetorCongrats08:33
Stskeepsthanks08:34
crevetorStskeeps: from starting mer to this : hats off sir.08:34
stephg^that08:35
Stskeepshehe, libhybris made life a lot easier08:35
crevetormaybe but who wrote it ?08:36
Stskeeps;)08:36
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fk_lxhehe08:37
fk_lx:-)08:37
stephgonwards and upwards now though right?08:37
crevetorNow I have to devise an evil plan to get my Jolla shipped wherever I am when my parents get it in France.08:37
fk_lxcrevetor: libhybris Stskeeps idea - and also some good contributions from others08:38
crevetorfk_lx: yup08:39
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zbenjaminas soon as my jolla phone is here i can start to abuse my nexus for nemo development ;)08:59
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locusfgood09:02
locusfI already have m7jd09:02
locusfmind09:02
locusfmine09:02
locusfwill share details once i get home09:03
zbenjaminlocusf: i hate you ;)09:03
locusflol09:03
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ghzhello09:24
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niqtmorning09:25
gryhi09:27
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locusfcan somebody paste neme:devel:apps repo here?10:51
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sledgeslocusf: http://repo.merproject.org/obs/nemo:/devel:/apps/latest_armv7hl/11:21
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locusfthanks11:23
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locusfss ar did add it11:32
locusfbut pkcon doesnt install it11:32
locusfwill wait for Stskeeps11:32
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sledgesO_o11:50
sledgeszyppe?11:50
sledges;)11:50
locusfno zypper11:50
kaltsilocusf: what are you trying?11:51
sledgeslocusf:11:51
sledgespkcon upgrade-system nemo-apps-wayland complete11:52
sledgesO_O handle with care though :)11:52
locusfkaltsi to install mosh from devel.:apps11:54
sledgeslocusf: then don't run that command above :D11:54
locusflol11:54
kaltsilocusf: after you added the repo, did you do "pkcon refresh"11:55
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locusfno11:55
kaltsithat's just like zypper refresh or apt-get update, fetches the metadata from the repo11:56
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locusfdidnt find mosh after12:02
locusfhow do i search for packages12:03
locusfwith pkcon12:03
kaltsipkcon search name mosh12:03
locusfhmm no rezults12:04
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sledgeslocusf:12:05
sledgesmosh is not in repos12:05
sledgesbuild failed12:05
locusfoh12:06
sledgeshttps://build.merproject.org/package/show?package=mosh&project=nemo%3Adevel%3Aapps12:06
locusfshite12:06
locusf no wonder then :D12:07
sledges:)12:07
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faenilo/12:51
sledges\o12:51
locusfhey faenil12:54
fk_lxfaenil: hi12:54
fk_lxlocusf: hi12:54
fk_lxsledges: hi12:54
fk_lx:-)12:54
faenilhey guys :)12:54
locusffk_lx: hey12:54
sledgeshi hi all :)12:55
sledgeshow's the jphone? :D12:55
locusfstill getting used to it12:55
sledgessaw you on the stream fk_lx , but faenil didn't pop into the view this time12:55
* sledges feels outnumbered by already jusers around here ;D12:56
faenildm8tbr's stream?12:56
sledgesyes12:56
faenilno way12:56
sledgesand mtv3's12:56
sledgesmight have missed ;P12:56
faenilhe pointed at me with the camera and I pointed at him :D12:56
* sledges kept flipping between the two streams12:56
locusfI left  quite early, too cold12:56
sledgeshehe locusf you should've stayed with the nemo union ;D12:57
faenillocusf, yeah I saw you leaving :( it's a pity we didn't have much time to talk12:57
sledgesbut i bet you couldn't wait to try the gem out ;)12:57
locusffaenil: yeah sorry man :/12:57
faenillocusf, no problem :) I'm sure there will be another time12:57
locusfsledges: that too lol12:58
fk_lxsledges: hehe, dm8tbr did a lot of hard work going around with that tablet12:58
sledgeslocusf: devaamo?12:58
locusfsledges: ?12:58
sledgess/devaamo/fosdem/12:58
locusfhmm12:59
locusfwhere is it this year?12:59
sledgessame12:59
sledgesbrusseks12:59
sledgesls12:59
sledges&)12:59
locusfok13:00
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locusfso yeah lipstick-colorful-home does run and all icons look good, with Jolla icons, its just that apps are upside down :D15:11
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locusfprobably the Y-rotation needs to be enabled15:11
w00tmake sure you've enabled rescue mode on usb-moded if you're tinkering with UI15:15
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locusfw00t: how do I do that?15:20
w00tphdeswer: ^15:21
locusfw00t: were you in Finland yesterday?15:21
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faenillocusf, no w00t abandoned us :(15:22
w00tlocusf: unfortunately not15:22
locusfw00t: ok15:22
* w00t has to go out for a bit15:22
w00tbbiab15:22
phdeswerlocusf: find the usb-moded.service file and add -s to the arguments15:25
phdeswer-r sorry15:27
locusfphdeswer: thanks :)15:28
phdeswerlocusf: everything that can be done with usb_moded is documented here : https://github.com/nemomobile/usb-moded/blob/master/docs/usb_moded-doc.txt15:29
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locusfphdeswer: okay15:34
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timophoh. the username in Jolla is nemo18:24
sledgesftw18:24
timophyeah18:24
sledgestimoph: congrats on your jphone :)18:24
timophthanks18:24
sledgeshow is that piece of engineering?18:25
timophjust wish there would be a list of known issues and a public bug tracker18:25
timophI like the hw18:25
sledgesAard is busy gathering feedback, i think also busy dumping it all into their bz18:25
timophsw is still a little rought around the edges18:26
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faeniltimoph, +118:26
timophonly had to do two factory resets :)18:26
faeniltimoph, 2 factory resets? for what reasons? XD18:26
timophzypper/store stopped working18:26
sledgesputting nemo in? :)18:26
timophalways failed to install anything18:27
timophI think it was left in a weird state when trying to install developer mode in a car18:27
timophnetwork kept going on and off18:27
timophthat was the 2nd reset18:28
timoph1st one I did since account creation didn't work for twitter18:28
timophthe signin thing for twitter never showed up18:28
timophjust failed silently18:29
timophstill trying to figure out if contacts sync works and if it does how to do it :)18:29
sledgesAard, are you following this ^_^18:30
timoph:)18:30
sledgescarddav is his area too18:31
* sledges is backlogging #jollamobile atm18:31
timophon top of those there are some minor bugs that I can't remember all now18:33
timophshould've made notes18:33
locusftimoph: there is vcf import in the Jolla guide18:43
locusfno syncing afaik18:43
timophok18:44
timophhmm. can't find it18:45
locusfsettings -> apps -> people18:48
timophah18:48
sledgestimoph: i found this: https://jolla.zendesk.com/entries/28410037-What-is-the-People-application-and-how-do-I-use-it-18:48
sledgessilly it's not listed here: https://jolla.zendesk.com/forums/22779303-People18:48
sledgessome duplication here and there18:48
timophseems there's sim import only18:49
sledgeslooks like you can submit a bug: https://jolla.zendesk.com/anonymous_requests/new18:49
sledgesbut can't see what others have submitted :(18:49
sledgess/silly it's not listed here/silly "How do I import contacts" feature is not listed here/18:49
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qwazixo/18:56
qwazixjust read the backlog18:56
sledgesqwazix: wb \o18:57
qwazixDocScrutinizer05, btw, regarding the discussion about openness: You said about revenging the maemo closed bits. What I like about nemo and by association sailfish, is that there aren't any bits to reveng.18:57
qwazixOkay, there's the closed UI on Sailfish, but the situation isn't much better on maemo either. Can't use the phone without nokia closed apps. Only hildon is open, and we have colorful home18:58
sledgeshttp://wiki.maemo.org/Free_Maemo18:58
qwazixsledges, yep, I know...18:59
sledgessomeone posted this yesterday while on #jollamobile :)19:00
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sledgesall of those who care so much about open and free should look into whole Nemo as a top-bottom providing distro19:03
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timophyep19:03
sledgesand help it thrive and communicate (=enrich the community ;))19:03
* qwazix still believes that porting every single maemo extras package to nemo/X11 would be less effort than revenging all maemo closed bits19:03
timoph:)19:04
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timophI actually think that is true19:04
qwazixnot counting that the end result is much cleaner and up to date, and you get updates for free19:04
Stskeepsshould be entirely possible to strip away the sailfish ui and put nemo on top19:05
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timophhmmh. can't create my own ssh key19:07
timophno it worked19:08
sledgesor fremantle on top ;)19:08
timophwho would want that?19:09
sledgestmo19:09
timophah. those people :)19:09
sledgesaren't them we are talking about?19:10
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sledgesas per qwazix' thoughts19:15
DocScrutinizer05wtf revenge?19:16
qwazixreverse engineer19:16
qwazixtimoph, actually fremantle has one of the most productive UI's ever put on a phone. Still finger friendly, but also not-so-limiting as other full touch UI's19:16
timophit was ok but I don't miss it that much19:17
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qwazix(I don't miss it at all, still using it :P)19:17
timophand I know noone wants to maintain the Qt version for it :)19:17
DocScrutinizer05and *I* said something abiut RE of maemo? in nemo context? sounds alien to me19:19
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qwazix[11:40:56] and we have some real fun RE'ing the closed blobs in it19:20
qwazix^^ that was you19:20
DocScrutinizer05I wouldn't know what for, tbh19:20
DocScrutinizer05sure, that was me, but not meant to suggest any future actions, particularly not regarding nemo19:20
qwazixno, no, I'm just commenting about why I find the "sandwich" situation better19:21
DocScrutinizer05it was just to explain what a PITA a closed GUI gives us19:21
qwazixand I am saying that the closed sailfish GUI should be much less of a pita, because the system doesn't break when you get rid of it19:22
DocScrutinizer05CSSU team strugglinh hard to smash bugs like memleaks in lockscreen and system status applets at large19:23
qwazix:nod: I was thinking the comment was more about middleware blobs19:23
DocScrutinizer05honestly, when the best property of a system is that you can get rid of it, then that tells a story about the system's foundation ideas19:24
qwazixhmm, it's not all black and white19:25
DocScrutinizer05sorry, I'm basically not really involved in all this. Got other pressing stuff to accomplish19:25
qwazixI mean if that closed UI layer makes Jolla money, and allows us to have a nice open nemo distro, I don't see the harm19:26
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DocScrutinizer05I'm basically not really interested in whether jolla succeeds or not, since they are dedicated to a device class that's not relevant for me: smartphomes19:27
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DocScrutinizer05I joined maemo not because smartphone but because NIT19:28
DocScrutinizer05and the NIT concept got abandoned with N9 already19:28
faeniltimoph, sorry I was multitasking and forgot to read your replies :P please highlight me :D19:29
DocScrutinizer05I nevertheless initially (on massive public demand) been willing to contribute to meego (harmattan) development despite I always said N9 isn't a device I'd consider using for myself. I changed my mind when it turned out all the promises about openmode been blatant lies19:33
faeniltimoph, did you get vcf import to work?19:34
DocScrutinizer05...and I would've been required to learn a whole new way to manage the OS thanks to abominations like aegis and the undocumented commands it came with, to replace stuff like su and whatnot else19:35
DocScrutinizer05the whole appeal of NIT been their similarity to any arbitrary desktop linux PC19:36
faenilDocScrutinizer05, ok, that was the past :)19:36
DocScrutinizer05when i need to learn a whole new way to do things, then why not for a widespread system like android instead of some niche OS?19:37
DocScrutinizer05but I won't do either19:38
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DocScrutinizer05and I won't use a N9 nor a jolla for my digital companion, no matter which OS running on it19:40
DocScrutinizer05simply because of the formfactor and general specs. So excuse me please19:40
qwazixDocScrutinizer05, we're talking software not form factor19:41
qwazixand nemo is still your normal linux distro19:41
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qwazixon form factor front we couldn't agree more19:42
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MricHey everyone ! Hope you are having an anwesome time with Jolla ?19:45
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Mricsledges, locusf, great job with Nemo/Glacier on wiki, I was really hoping that someone would do that. I have added the page on the main page of Nemo to publicise it more :)20:05
Mricsledges, locusf, great job with Nemo/Glacier on wiki, I was really hoping that someone would do that. I have added the page on the main page of Nemo to publicise it more :)20:05
Mricsorry for double post20:06
sledgesthanks Mric :)20:08
* sledges afk a bit20:08
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sledgesDocScrutinizer05: interesting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_Internet_tablet#cite_note-723:26
DocScrutinizer05well, a reporter claiming that doesn't make it true.23:28
sledgesok, just checking :)23:28
sledgeswas just stumbling of what you meant by saying NIT23:28
DocScrutinizer05actually fremantle and diablo been pretty similar, except for minor changes in the GUI23:28
sledgesI thought NIT was also following some phylosophical/FSF trends23:29
DocScrutinizer05while N9 pretty much nuked everything, to a degree that we even got a new irc channel dedicated to harmattan, since answers on same question would differ significantly between freamntle and before, and harmattan23:30
sledgesthat's right, because technologies merged23:30
sledgesand swapped23:30
sledgesnot to mention the names :)23:30
DocScrutinizer05til fremantle you basically got a mini PC in your pocket, with N9 and HARM this changed to a smartphone with apps23:32
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DocScrutinizer05and frankly I hate apps23:33
Hurrianluckily, Harmattan doesn't dump eglibc for bionic :P23:33
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sledgeso_O23:34
sledgesall clearer now23:34
* sledges should really try to resurrect his n900 ooi23:34
sledgesmjones: im not seeing duplicate touch events :/ https://pastee.org/smuej23:35
Hurrianit's actually surprising how under the hood, Harmattan looks like Fremantle.23:35
Hurrianbut the whole Hildon thing was scrapped, so it's now more a phone than UMPC.23:35
DocScrutinizer05looks like != works like23:35
sledgesHurrian: under the hood = middleware ?23:36
Hurrianyep.23:36
sledgeswell23:36
sledgesmce dsme & Co ?23:36
mjonessledges: so there's something happening a little higher in the stack23:36
sledgesmjones: yup, whilst interpreting those events it seems23:36
DocScrutinizer05yeah, both OS have for example a dbus msg to control the indicator LED. Just in HARM it's... dead23:37
DocScrutinizer05killed by aegis23:37
Hurrianthe use of preinit instead of calling init, other scripts, mce, dsme, csd, excessive dbus use, etc.23:37
* sledges wonders if it's possible to recompile qtbase without recompiling packages depending in it23:37
DocScrutinizer05in fremantle you can patch stuff in preinit, in HARM you can kill device by editing preinit23:38
Hurriani was actually surprised that OSSO didn't base Harmattan on upstream MeeGo23:38
sledgesright so basically Nokia should've stayed with Maemo23:38
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sledgeshow would a Maemo n9 have looked like you think? ;)23:39
sledgesi'm of opinion Qt is more for embed devices than GTK..23:39
Hurriansledges: N950 running that really cluttered Harmattan concept23:39
Hurrianalso we'd have got it in 201023:39
DocScrutinizer05actually I think Qt is much more bloated and way slower than GTK23:40
sledgesis because GTK is less platform independent23:40
sledgesno?23:40
DocScrutinizer05and SURE I need and want and can't live without platform independence for my "apps"23:41
sledgesfor my whole ux layer23:41
sledgesfor all other boards im going to port the system to23:41
DocScrutinizer05so they can get ported to... errr..... WinP? Sybian? AAh maybe blackberry23:41
sledgesother architectures23:41
sledgeset al23:42
DocScrutinizer05and in the end it turns out they can't even get ported to anpother maemo device23:42
DocScrutinizer05X-P23:42
DocScrutinizer05another*23:42
sledgesbut probably im one of the few who want emails embedded into their fridge door, and need to go and find something more portable ;)23:42
sledgesprobably that's why MeeGo boasted to go on netbooks,ivi,phone, and then lot more places23:43
Hurriansledges: and unfortunately ended up on... none of them23:43
sledgesnot because it wasn't suitable23:43
sledgesbut again23:44
sledgesfunnily enough, meego for netbooks was GTK23:44
sledges:DD23:44
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DocScrutinizer05and btw one of the great achievements of Qt platform independence is: it implements its own brainfscked HID23:46
sledgesthat's worth the effort imho23:47
DocScrutinizer05isn't it great how your own kbd layout doesn't apply to all the Qt apps?23:47
sledgesand sadly too late to implement a less complex one now ;)23:47
DocScrutinizer05...how each and every tool you're used to employ to handle any aspect around input is simply futile with Qt23:48
DocScrutinizer05but well, let's perfectionize this: QtM23:49
DocScrutinizer05that's what you get when you GFX toolkit tries to become your OS sandbox23:50
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DocScrutinizer05then I heard - dunno if tue or not - that qt is using floats to calculate simple things like rescaling. OMG23:52
DocScrutinizer05true even23:53
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DocScrutinizer05or scrolling, or simple moving around a sprite23:53
sledgesone toolkit to rule them all :D23:53
DocScrutinizer05see puzzlemaster, which turned from *wow* to *dead slow* when the auther changed to using the Qt gfx stuff, iirc23:54
sledgesi spoke to the author, being very happy to notice how much faster it became in Qt523:55
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