Thursday, 2013-12-19

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coderusvaldur55: lol :D03:02
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Stskeepswhat'd you blow up09:33
stephgmy head, xmas party last night09:33
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sandy_lockeqwazix: I just found something odd in header's specs...11:45
sandy_lockeheader's dimensions are 240u x 75u11:45
sandy_lockewhich gives really too much height^^11:45
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sandy_lockeif you give those dimensions in pixel for instance, and then lock the proportions and adjust to 480px width, height becomes 150px11:47
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sandy_lockewhich does not seem right11:47
sandy_lockeI must have missed something I assume...11:47
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sandy_lockeqwazix: just ping me when you see those^11:48
smokexthe stock background images certainly aren't that size11:51
wazdheya people11:54
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sandy_lockesmokex: what stock bg images ?12:05
wazdsandy_locke: heya12:05
sandy_lockewazd: how are you? long time no see :)12:06
smokexthe flower12:06
smokexwhatever is in the splash screen folder12:07
wazdsandy_locke: I've decided not to mess with Glacier, since you've already done quite a big deal of things and now I'm working on crystalizing my concept into full featured UI12:08
sandy_lockeso you're making a theme then ?12:08
wazdsandy_locke: whole new concept12:09
sandy_lockeso with API mockups and all ?12:09
wazdsandy_locke: I hope so12:09
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sandy_lockenice :)12:10
sandy_lockeyou have some mockups to show ?12:10
wazdsandy_locke: not yet, but now I have a pretty solid vision of the visual styling to guide all things :) I hope to render some descriptive video somewhen in january. Now I'm "adjusting" the looks with some minor art, like:
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sandy_lockeok, that's a nice icon and bg btw12:14
sandy_lockeit's a pretty big deal, you may take some time to finish this project^^12:15
wazdsandy_locke: I'm used to these things, when I will have sharp vision in my head, then everything else will pop up like a popcorn :D12:16
wazdhappens every time :)12:16
sandy_lockeyeah, but if you're going to make a full fledged new UI, and want it to be implemented someday, you'll need solid specs & api definitions12:17
sandy_lockealong with adjusting with what can be done and what cannot12:18
sandy_lockeimplementation wise12:18
wazdsandy_locke: yeah, that's why it's so crucial to design "skeleton" really well12:18
sandy_lockeyup, pixel perfect as they say :P12:18
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wazdsandy_locke: well, sorta kinda :D12:21
wazdsandy_locke: more like "logically perfect" :D12:21
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sandy_lockestill, takes some time though12:22
wazdyeah, but I hope it will wirth it :)12:23
smokexI made a small collection of nemo/sailfish wallpapers based on the old C7/N9/50 stuff12:25
smokexnot sure if those were copyrighted or not12:25
wazdwell, n9 had some copyrighted photos12:29
wazdor not, I guess it was n900's art12:30
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smokexanything that was in the N9 release should belong to mer iiuc because of the foundation?12:48
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Aardwin 14212:52
Stskeepssmokex: what?12:53
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smokexok maybe not lol12:58
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Stskeepsno legal relationship between mer and nokia12:58
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sandy_lockeHurrian, qwazix : So I made a first draft of the mail app ==>
sandy_lockeneed insight to see if I'm in the right direction14:13
sandy_lockeI'll continue with the different views14:13
Hurriansandy_locke: it shouldn't be transparent14:13
sandy_lockeHurrian: why not ?14:14
sandy_lockeit's a stock app14:14
Hurriandisplaying the wallpaper's only done for the home screen14:15
Hurrianapps in general are black, and only peek through when there's a notification or the user swipes them away14:15
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Hurrianalso, the view is very confusing for me - is that a threaded conversation with many recipients, or a date-sorted view?14:16
sandy_lockeso app's background should be completely black or dark grey ?14:16
Hurriansandy_locke: yep, completely black or dark grey14:16
sandy_lockeno no, it's just a date sorted view14:17
Hurriandark grey for highlighted items14:17
sandy_lockeit's the main view of the mail app as thought by qwazix and myself14:17
Hurrianthere is way too much empty space between mails.14:17
sandy_lockeFrankly, I think it's for the better14:18
Hurrianthe font is also too small - resize this to the N9/50's screen dimensions and it's miniscule.14:18
sandy_lockenarrowing space between conversations may clutter the screen very much14:18
Hurriangiven, but i'd prefer that spacing between items happen inside the box the text is enclosed in14:19
sandy_lockeit's actually a mockup with width and height of the N914:19
HurrianIf you look at the N9's Messages app, that is a very sane and safe way to do things.14:20
sandy_lockeso what px should I not go under ?14:20
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HurrianAround 12-14.14:21
HurrianDecorative small text is nice, but not when I have to scroll around a list, scanning for relevant stuff.14:21
sandy_lockeok right14:22
sandy_lockeso you also think I should add one conversation top and bottom ?14:22
HurrianTop and bottom?14:22
sandy_locketo narrow the space between them ?14:22
sandy_lockea conversation in past events, and one in recent events14:23
HurrianI'd say that the screen should be occupied by 6.5 conversations.14:23
sandy_lockeok, I see14:23
HurrianThe conversation items taper off too long, by the way.14:24
sandy_lockewhat do you mean ?14:24
HurrianThey should fade away in around only ~25-50px.14:24
HurrianThe gradient is too long.14:24
HurrianIt's alright to have most things at full opacity, as long as the item of interest is highlighted (when selected)14:25
sandy_lockeso no fading  for the items ?14:25
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sandy_lockeor should I lower the opacity of top and bottom most conversations ?14:26
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HurrianJust the top and bottom-most.14:27
sandy_lockeI'll do that then14:28
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sandy_lockethx Hurrian :)14:28
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Hurriansandy_locke: something I made really quick14:41
sandy_lockeyeah that's nice, but I wanted to get out of the legacy harmattan style14:43
sandy_lockeand also the old concept that mails should look like atom feeds14:43
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Hurrianeach conversation should be a thread, couldn't find the motivation to change the names though14:46
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Hurriani don't know about others, but I don't particularly like distracting chrome from a UI14:46
sandy_lockeit's not so distracted14:47
sandy_lockewe have some kind of bulleted lists14:47
sandy_lockeand conversations treated the same as the messaging app14:47
sandy_lockeI was also planning on adding a header toolbar on swipe as specced in the repo14:48
sandy_lockeHurrian: look with adjusted stuffs :
sandy_lockeit's not so distracted from the rest of the UI14:54
sandy_locke(not all is adjusted)14:55
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DocScrutinizer05does nemo dialer work under sailfish?14:55
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DocScrutinizer05incl "dial a friend"14:56
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DocScrutinizer05a glance at that jolla device makes me think the stock dialer is unbearable crap14:56
DocScrutinizer05and AIUI the sourcecode isn't and never will be available for dialer (among others)14:58
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sandy_lockeit's me ^16:24
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coderuswhere to add paths to global PATH env?19:17
coderusbtw, what is n950-plymouth-start-update.service for?19:24
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merlin1991iirc plymouth does splash screens19:55
merlin1991(on bootup)19:55
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qwazixsandy_locke, the width is wrong in the header, no the height20:14
qwazixshould be 480u20:14
qwazixDocScrutinizer05, nemo dialer should probably work on Jolla, if you add the right repos20:15
sandy_lockeyes, but if height is 75px, it's really huge!20:15
sandy_lockeso qwazix, how do you like the mockup?
qwazixsandy_locke, I'll come to the mockup too. What header spec are you looking at?20:16
qwazixlatest is and height is 5020:16
qwazixplus 15u gradient20:17
sandy_lockeyeah, I was talking about the svg file20:17
sandy_lockefor the mockup I used specs from the PDF since they seemed right20:17
qwazixwhich one?20:17
qwazixah yeah, the png is wrong20:18
sandy_lockeyeah png sorry20:19
qwazixyeah, I forgot to export that when I fixed it20:19
sandy_lockenp I figured there was an error so I used the ones in the pdf20:19
qwazixabout the mail app, I agree with Hurrian, there's too much chrome20:20
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qwazixif we lose the border of the circles, make the line darker and maybe even lose the bubbles...20:20
qwazixjust a line with an arrow that fades quickly to the right is enough20:21
qwazixsomething like this20:22
sandy_lockeso pure minimalism ?20:23
qwazixmore getting in line with the rest of glacier I'd say20:23
sandy_lockethe bubbles are a bit like the one in the messenging app (not quite but almost)20:24
qwazixyou are right, we can still keep the background color, but we've since gone darker than Hurrian's original mockup20:25
qwazixif we lessen the contrast it might look good20:26
qwazixI'd also like the possibility of having more than one face, for conversations with many people, don't know how this can be done20:27
sandy_lockeI see how it can be done20:27
sandy_lockereload the link above, and tell me if you prefer this for the messages, the blue one20:28
qwazixand we could also play with the spacing, not go time-proportionate, but have slightly longer space for longer times of inactivity (that might not look very nice, but we can try)20:28
sandy_lockemmmh, I don't know about the spacing, already when I was mocking up, it was strange when conversations did not have the same spacing20:29
qwazixit's too thick20:29
qwazixwe can lose it altogether20:30
qwazixit's obvious which conversation is which dot20:30
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sandy_lockeok, but if you reload I've lightened the thing20:30
sandy_lockeI'll test w/o20:31
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qwazixthe light one is better, but try w/o too20:31
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qwazixtry centering the bigger avatar on the axis of the centers of the others also, even if it might go over the contact name20:33
qwazixnow it's like the beginning (blue bubble)20:33
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sandy_lockeyou can reload now20:34
qwazixnow the vertical lines look wrong :P20:35
sandy_lockeyup, seems misplaced with all the colors20:36
qwazixis this an svg?20:36
sandy_lockeno it's png20:36
sandy_lockeI can upload an svg if you need20:36
qwazixI mean the one you are working on20:36
sandy_lockeyes ofc20:37
sandy_lockesorry, misunderstood20:37
qwazixcan I play with it a bit?20:37
sandy_lockehere it is :)20:37
qwazixhm.. can't see the avatars, I suppose they are linked, not embedded20:38
qwazixcan you upload those too?20:39
sandy_lockehmm, ok I'll see into that20:40
sandy_lockedo you want the actual pictures ?20:41
sandy_lockebecause it's just svg circles with pictures as a texture20:41
sandy_lockeqwazix: ^20:41
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qwazixsandy_locke, :nod: I'll put some random ones from the net20:42
sandy_lockebut if you need I can upload those I used20:42
sandy_lockethey are public domain20:42
sandy_lockeso we can embed them in our specs20:42
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sandy_lockeqwazix: and what about like this ?20:50
qwazixI don't know, there is something, but I'm not sure what. Give me a couple minutes.20:52
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qwazixalso please upload the avatars if you've checked for licenses, as I just copied off google images20:53
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sandy_lockeok, I'll do that20:53
sandy_lockeI'll upload the actual pictures20:53
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sandy_lockeor we can go with this (link = reload ^)20:56
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smokexLast phase is stable that is currently not used, but it will contain more testing and where nothing should not break.21:14
smokexdouble negative21:14
smokexwhere nothing should not break21:14
sandy_lockesmokex: so evrything must break ?21:17
smokexapparently :D21:17
sandy_lockeoh yeah, I see the typo on your link21:18
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sandy_lockeI'll edit that21:18
sandy_lockedone :)21:19
sandy_lockethe whole sentence is a mess though (no disrespect to the author ofc^^)21:21
sandy_lockeI do not dare to change it all up21:21
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sandy_lockeqwazix: ping me when you're done21:22
sandy_lockeI'll watch an tv show21:22
sandy_locke(or if you've sth to show me I stay ofc ;))21:22
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smokex here's a bit of light entertainment21:28
smokexwhich I'm watching atm21:28
sandy_lockesmokex: self-taught don't always use old books21:32
sandy_lockewhat's your man saying ? :P21:32
smokexthe creator of c++?21:33
sandy_lockethe old guy yeah21:33
sandy_lockehe says, bad code can come from self taught that use old docs21:33
smokexhe's talking about why different languages are good for different applications and where c++ fits in right now21:34
sandy_lockeyeah, but he also say those stuffs above in the beginning21:34
sandy_lockewell at 17:xx21:35
smokexI'm at 9:1021:35
sandy_lockeah :)21:35
sandy_lockeyou'll see ;)21:35
sandy_locke(my bad, I spoiled you the 17th minute :P)21:35
smokexwife keeps telling me her oh so important crap about the girls she's currently mad at, at work21:35
sandy_lockeshe should just avoid the other girl21:36
smokexso its taking me a while to watch it21:36
sandy_lockeif she pisses her off21:36
smokexshe gets pissed at everyone21:36
sandy_lockethat's another issue21:36
smokexthis one is her best friend21:36
sandy_lockeanother one...21:37
smokexshe's pissed at me atm too21:37
smokexbecause I unblocked my sister from her facebook21:37
smokexguess what... she was pissed at my sister21:37
sandy_lockeI was gonna say it :P21:38
sandy_lockeblock your sister from her facebook back then21:38
smokexnah I'm letting her do that21:38
smokexmy sister has been blocked for 2 years21:39
sandy_lockeno wonder she's pissed off21:39
sandy_lockeoh, honey, I broke your computer...21:39
sandy_lockeI'll let you repair it then21:39
smokexand I couldn't show her my pictures on wifes facebook from Bon Jovi concert21:39
sandy_lockenighty night21:39
smokexnn lol21:40
sandy_lockeah :(21:40
sandy_lockeyou should organize a family diner21:41
sandy_locketo let your sister and wife get along21:41
smokexI'm in Australia21:41
smokexsister is in Tennessee21:41
sandy_lockeoh, yeah...21:41
qwazixit has 2-3 different styles21:42
sandy_lockeyeah see that21:42
sandy_lockelike them21:42
sandy_lockeparticularily like the yesterday 12o'clock one21:43
sandy_lockebut will the font be big enough on small screens ?21:43
qwazixthe text of that that might be a little too small21:43
sandy_lockeyeah that what I thought21:44
qwazixwe can also put the text there, only if the whole message fits21:44
sandy_lockealthough we could propose all three in mail prefs ?21:44
qwazixusually the first few lines don't say anything really special21:44
qwazixsandy_locke, no I don't think we should propose design in prefs21:45
sandy_lockeat least : show excerpt, show only subject21:45
qwazixdesign is our job. Prefs are for things like sorting, grouping etc21:45
qwazixsandy_locke, that's okay to have in pref, yeah21:46
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sandy_lockeqwazix: and why not show only subject, and excerpt as in yesterday 12 only when conversation appears in the middle of the timeline ?21:48
sandy_lockeonly bigger21:48
sandy_lockethe excerpt could overflow top and bottom since we only show subject for the others21:49
qwazixalso the day is only needed the first time it appears21:50
sandy_lockethe first time what appear ?21:51
qwazixsandy_locke, the first in the list might be better to be bigger21:51
qwazixyeah, you don't need to have "today" in every entry21:52
sandy_lockeyeah that's right21:52
qwazixyou can show it on the first entry, and then only the time for the next entries, until "yesterday"21:52
sandy_lockeor... we could use the style from the top messages and let user scroll messages directly from this view21:52
sandy_lockeoverall scrolling could be done by swiping on contacts21:53
sandy_lockeyeah like the idea for "today"21:53
sandy_lockesame for yesterday21:53
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sandy_lockealso, we could allow tap on a pic (even when there are several) to answer directly only to .this. one21:54
qwazixif the "big" message is in the middle, user won't be able to move the first (and usually most important) message to the "big" position21:54
qwazixif it is the first of the screen, then you can move any message to the "big" state21:54
sandy_lockeyeah that's right too21:54
sandy_lockeo/ Venemo21:54
qwazixmorning Venemo21:54
qwazixVenemo, we're talking qmlmail21:55
sandy_lockeqwazix: on phone21:55
sandy_locketake you back in few mins21:55
qwazixsandy_locke, ok21:55
Venemonice mockup, which part are you discussing about?21:56
qwazixhow (and if) to show excrept21:57
qwazixwe're leaning towards the "yesterday 12:00" style21:57
Venemoyes, excerpts are very useful21:57
qwazixsandy_locke, had a nice idea, a certain position in the list to be shown with more details21:58
VenemoI think both yesterday 12:00 and 12:32 are okay. I think that 12:00 is very original :)21:58
qwazixso that you can scroll and view more info21:58
qwaziximagine like moving a paper under a stationary magnifying glass21:59
qwazixthis was his mockup
qwazixsee 12:32, though I don't know how that will look with animation22:00
Venemowell, I think the except should be something that you can't interact with. it is, after all, just an excerpt22:00
Venemoyou tap the item and you see the full message anyway22:01
qwazixVenemo, we were also thinking, maybe to have different spacing, relative to the time between messages22:01
Venemobut I must say that I very much like the general feeling of the mockup22:01
qwazixbtw the circle size is the size of the conversation, while the color is the importance22:01
qwazix(simple things, like if the contact is in favorites, if you have many messages with this person stuff like that)22:02
Venemoqwazix: I wouldn't complicate it that much. I appreciate the idea of indicating things in the list view, but I vote against varying spacing - QML list views work optimally if all items are of equal height22:02
qwazixVenemo, :nod:22:03
Venemootherwise I very much like the concept22:04
Venemofirst feeling I got was WOW22:04
qwazixhappy to hear that :)22:04
qwazixteam work!22:04
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Venemoyou guys are AWESOME22:09
Venemoanyhow, I've been looking at the UI control specs from github22:10
VenemoI generally like their look but not everything's clear for me yet22:11
Venemocan we talk about them tomorrow qwazix? :)22:11
qwazixVenemo, hopefully yeah, but I'm not sure I'll have too much time tomorrow22:12
qwazix(last day @work and you know how it is)22:13
Venemoqwazix: ah, yeah I know22:13
Venemoqwazix: maybe day after tomorrow then?22:13
qwazixyeah, saturday should be ok22:13
VenemoI'll be here around 7PM by my time22:14
Venemowill have an exam earlier and a tennis match after that22:14
qwazixyour time is?22:15
Venemoit's CET22:15
EztranJust been reading the logs. +1 to WOW at the mail concept.22:16
Venemo I think it's +1 now and +2 in summer22:16
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qwazixokay, we'll talk then, if not sooner22:17
qwazixVenemo, also, Morpog has a pretty good idea about the specs, you can talk to him too22:19
sandy_lockeback, sorry22:19
sandy_lockereading the backlogs22:19
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Venemoqwazix: surely, I will :)22:22
sandy_lockeok qwazix I was thinking the same thing22:23
sandy_lockeabout the scroll magnifying thingy for excerpt22:23
sandy_lockebut as Venemo said, maybe we should stick with static excerpts22:23
sandy_lockeI don't know22:24
sandy_lockeit may take a lot to load for only the main view (loading all the messages at once)22:24
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Venemosandy_locke: if we have it working in the static mode, we can always improve on it later22:26
sandy_lockeqwazix: also what was this about : had a nice idea, a certain position in the list to be shown with more details22:26
sandy_lockeyeah ofc22:26
sandy_lockeI think it would be the best approach22:27
qwazixI was trying to explain that "big" item we were talking about22:27
qwazixthough, I presume it might be too hard to implement22:27
sandy_lockewhat was it ?22:27
sandy_lockewe agreed that the big item should be topmost22:27
sandy_lockeso I was thinking about the scroll area22:29
sandy_lockeit should be on the favicons column22:29
sandy_lockeand allow tap on favicons for quick reply to one recipient only22:29
sandy_lockeso for instance, a short email would have it's whole message displayed in main view, and you can answer to one of the recipient (if many) or the recipient by taping it's favicon22:31
sandy_lockeqwazix: ^22:31
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sandy_lockealso some actions like new mail, quick draft... should be on header toolbar by swiping down on header22:32
sandy_locketo keep header clean22:32
sandy_lockeqwazix: are you drafting sth right now ?22:33
qwazixsorry, I was afk22:33
sandy_lockeok np22:33
sandy_lockealso in your mockup, I think list view should go all the way down the screen22:34
qwazixabout the "big" item, any item should smoothly transition from "small" state to "big", that might prove too hard to code (or to make it feel right)22:34
qwazixyeah, it should22:35
sandy_lockeyou think it may be too hard ?22:35
qwazixthe tap on contact to reply is nice22:35
qwazixsandy_locke, I'm not sure, we must ask a QML wizard22:35
sandy_lockethe scrolling method on harmattan for instance AFAIK it uses some advanced animations to display i.e: date or alphabet letters22:36
sandy_lockeno ?22:36
qwazixnew mail  should be available without opening the header22:36
sandy_lockeok, yeah, most used actions should be available directly22:36
qwazixrefresh can be done with swipe down, like on twitter, though I liked harmattan's implementation that put the search there22:37
sandy_lockeyeah, iOS stole it too (search)22:37
qwazixsearch is good, because it takes advantage of the available space22:37
qwazixrefresh doesn't take much space anyway22:37
sandy_lockesearch is better, or could we use long swipe to refresh, short swipe to search ?22:38
Eztransandy_locke: was just thinking about that. Would seem a bit pulley menu-ish.22:38
sandy_lockeyeah, that's where the idea came from :P22:39
EztranAh. That'd be why :)22:39
sandy_lockebut why not use it ? it's good design I believe22:39
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sandy_lockeqwazix: you're the one in charge of the mockup now, since you took the file for editing in Inkscape ;)22:40
sandy_lockemy vector program mess up Inkscape svg, sadly...22:41
qwazixsandy_locke, that's unfair!22:41
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sandy_lockehinhinhin >-)22:41
sandy_lockeor you can send me the svg and I'll see what I can do :)22:43
sandy_lockeqwazix: the "Mails by people" header text is elegant22:43
sandy_lockewe should keep it22:43
sandy_lockealso, should we use long tap on mail actions ?22:44
qwazixor swipe to the right actions22:44
qwazix(see listview medium mockup)22:44
sandy_lockeI was thinking it could open an unobtrusive dialog at bottom22:44
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qwazix(or a contextroller)22:45
sandy_lockeyeah I prefer swipe right22:45
sandy_lockebut in this case it should be swipe left, no ?22:46
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sandy_lockealthough, delete in people view should be avoid, since it should gather all emails from the people in each conversation22:47
sandy_lockespeaking of which...22:47
sandy_lockepeople view should show only people names in main view22:48
sandy_lockenot last messages22:48
sandy_lockeqwazix: ^22:48
sandy_lockethe view we made is actually conversation view22:48
qwazixah, now I got it22:49
qwazixno we won't delete a person, we can delete all the history with him however22:49
sandy_lockeand we should think of a way to highlight when a mail has not been read22:49
sandy_lockeit's dangerous22:50
sandy_lockeyou could ask the mail app to just delete years of conversations !22:50
sandy_lockeit should be an option hard to access22:50
sandy_lockenot with swipe for instance22:51
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qwazixand yep22:57
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sandy_lockeqwazix: so this should be people view23:05
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qwazixI gotta go, have a good night23:13
sandy_lockeok you too23:13
sandy_lockesee you23:13
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sledgesgreat work on mailer!23:29
sledgesgnite :)23:29
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