Thursday, 2014-01-02

wazdsledges: well, horizontal curvature is the same as n900's keys, I guess it will be alright most of the time :)00:00
wazdsledges: and size and spacing btw :P00:00
wazdsledges: as for the white part, actually it can not :(00:01
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wazdheya people :)08:49
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stephgwooooooord!08:51
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Venemohi08:53
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wazdIf someone is still interested in discussion, http://i.imgur.com/avJaV10.jpg :)10:28
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fk_lxwazd: nice!10:34
fk_lxdoes it cover the camera?10:34
wazdd-pad geometry is a little messed up, but I guess you can see the idea10:34
wazdyep, there's no other way for current device not to10:35
wazdBut it's visible when opened10:35
fk_lxwazd: well I think that is a major usability issue for using such TOH10:35
fk_lxI would expect narrower keyboard but with some of the cover being glass to make possible usage of camera10:36
wazdfk_lx: well, it was not my design decision to move the camera to the center :D10:36
wazdfk_lx: I'd rather use large keyboard and shoot with slider opened :D10:36
fk_lxwazd: keep in mind it's in top center10:36
fk_lxthat means you can make your keyboard smaller by that area10:37
fk_lxpersonally I wouldn't buy keyboard TOH that covers my camera, sorry10:37
wazdfk_lx: sorry to hear that :)10:37
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fk_lxwazd: ;-)10:37
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wazdfk_lx: you should realize though that any "glass" will ruin your photos10:59
wazdfk_lx: due to internal reflections10:59
wazdfk_lx: you can make a hole in the other half for camera and flash large enough for light to spread, but then again I don't quite understand what's so wrong with shooting with slider opened.11:01
fk_lxwazd: sorry no glass, I mean just hole11:01
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fk_lxshooting with slider opened makes shooting problematic11:02
fk_lxfaenil: hi11:02
wazdfk_lx: how come?11:02
faenilo/ people11:02
fk_lxwazd: because you must do it11:02
wazdheya :)11:02
fk_lxwazd: you must move the slider, that's another action to required to take picture11:03
faenilanyone who has experience with SNN clustering by any chance?11:03
fk_lxwazd: that's why I'm so for the hole solution :-)11:03
wazdfk_lx: was n900's cover a problem to you?11:03
fk_lxwazd: and you won't loose that much keyboard space :-)11:03
fk_lxwazd: yes, because I had to open it, when on N9 or Jolla I can make photo instantly11:04
faenilfk_lx, hole is not enough, you need a lot of free space around the camera11:04
fk_lxwazd: and what counts is capturing the right moment, which can be lost after a second required to push the slider keyboard11:04
faeniljust try taking a pic with your finger like 3-4cm from the camear11:04
faenilthe pic will still be bad11:04
wazdfk_lx: even though it launches camera and actually saves you another action? :)11:05
faenilimho it's impossible to do a TOH that will keep camera quality ;)11:05
faenilmaybe cutting the TOH in half...maybe...11:05
fk_lxfaenil: that's why I opted for smaller keyboard, that wont use the whole width11:05
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fk_lxfaenil: in other words will leave the upper part of the cover just like in the ones we have11:05
faenilfk_lx, yes but read again, leaving out a small portion of width is not enough11:06
faenilyou need a keyboard which is like width/2 wide...11:06
faenilbecause even if you put something slighly close to the camera it will reflect and pic will be very bad11:06
fk_lxfaenil: well I just thought that keyboard could start just below "I'm the first one" label11:07
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fk_lxwon't that be enough?11:07
faenilthat's not enough, imho11:07
faenilnope :(11:07
faeniltry putting a straight finger there, take a pic with flash, and see results11:07
wazd_you can't just make a round hole11:07
fk_lxwhat about slide down keyboard in portrait mode ?11:08
wazd_it will obscure fov due to thickness11:08
faenilfk_lx, don't know, the phone is very tall already :) it would be difficult to balance the weight11:08
faenilbut who knows11:08
wazd_it's not only tall11:08
wazd_keyboard would be thin and holding the whole body11:09
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wazd_or it would be thick and you'll carry it in a bag :D11:09
fk_lxbesides guys, to be honest, on screen keyboard is very good, who needs hardware one :-P11:09
fk_lxand if so, maybe external one connected through bluetooth for hardware keyboard lovers :-)11:10
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wazd_fk_lx: what's the point of the whole toh concept then?)11:10
fk_lxfaenil: that's wazd concept: http://i.imgur.com/avJaV10.jpg11:11
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wazd_if you can plug things via usb/bt/irda11:11
faenilwazd_, are you kidding? what about Arduino lilypad? :D11:11
faenilfk_lx, yeah saw it :)11:11
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wazd_I just wanted to design uncompromised solution for power users :) And with a proper gaming d-pad :)11:22
wazd_it would certanly not fit everyone11:22
wazd_but hwkb lovers should have their own dream to pursue :)11:23
stephgwazd yeah seems to me there's at least 3 toh keyboards on the go here :)11:23
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faenilwazd_, one thing to account for though imho would be something that doesn't let dust/etc scratch the camera while kbd is open11:24
faenilclosed*11:24
wazd_  oh well, unfortunately you can't protect it for 100% with reasonable methods, but I guess slightly bigger gap above the camerawould work11:30
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wazd_cause you will have overall gap thickness + about 0.3mm of 'body' slider part11:31
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DocScrutinizer05(hw kbd) please don't forget to leave whatever support feet needed on both sides or at least in left and right upper corner to allow device to sit on flat surface and user typing without holding the device19:34
DocScrutinizer05I thnk a ~5mm frame like inverted U with noth ends of U at lower right and left corner would serve nicely as both a stand and also for the slide mech on *sides* of kbd slideout19:36
DocScrutinizer05s/noth/both/19:37
DocScrutinizer05(up/down/left/right in above relating to landscape orientation)19:37
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DocScrutinizer05sliding whole kbd TOH (minus right short leg of U-frame) 20mm to the left (downwards in portrait orientation) would open up enough of a window for camera to operate19:40
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DocScrutinizer05...and allow to hold the device naturally on both long sides in portrait orientation for taking videos/photos19:41
DocScrutinizer05I know designing that mech would be quite a call19:42
DocScrutinizer05btw sliding left xould expose the D-pad (portrait-)under the screen, which might be useful for other usecases as well19:44
DocScrutinizer05would*19:44
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