Thursday, 2014-01-23

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artemmaspecial: works fine, thanks! And actually seems to be a little faster than using invoker and shell. Is shell creation taking really noticeable amount of time?00:04
specialno idea00:08
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wazd_Moaning people, how's CES?06:09
wazd_VDVsx o/06:10
VDVsxwazd_, \o06:10
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wazd_VDVsx aren't you in Vegas? :)06:37
VDVsxwazd_, I wish :D, for sure better than here, -17c bruhhhhh06:38
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ZogG_laptopwazd_: you wanted to send me noob task :06:48
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merlin1991heh timeout party07:06
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stephgmorning everyone07:41
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faenilmorning o/08:16
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faenilsorry, that was sad :D08:56
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vakkovsledges: awesome nexus 4 :D09:13
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rcgheya :D10:01
fk_lxrcg: ah what an enthusiasm10:02
fk_lxrcg: hi there ;-)10:02
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faenilqwazix, so, do you confirm that the header should shrink app's viewport when opened?10:55
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faenil(suggested answer: no :D)10:55
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faenilqwazix, and also, what happens for example when you have a listview in landscape and you shrink its width?12:23
faenil(by opening the drawer)12:23
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alteregoRight, shower time.12:34
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faenilanyone wants to discuss about header? :)15:10
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qwazixfaenil, my opinion is yes, the header should shrink the viewport. The developer must take care that his list works okay when shrunk, or avoid placing a drawer there. If we have performance issues we can do a fake animation like window resize on ubuntu (resize a semitransparent rectangle and then re-arrange immediately once the user releases)16:31
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faenilmm :/ okay, it's the nth time we discuss this, so I'll just do as you say :)16:32
faenilqwazix, do you agree that if the drawer is shown in portrait then it's also shown in landscape?16:33
faenilI mean, that's up to the dev to hide it when not needed16:34
qwazixyep, agreed16:35
faenilqwazix, what about items inside the drawer, should we provide a "DrawerItem" or something for the common case?16:35
faenilif so, specs needed :p16:36
qwazixdrawerItem? hadn't you already implemented something like that?16:37
faenilqwazix, I mean like a ListItem16:38
faenilI have the header with the drawer logic16:38
faenilbut there is no auxiliary qml element for what to put inside the drawer16:38
faenilas it's not in the specs16:38
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qwazixhmm, what do you think? I'm inclined to say no, but if there is a good reason why not16:39
faenilnot sure16:40
faenilin any case I think it would just be an Item with predefined paddings16:40
faenilas that's all we can predict about the dev will do with it :)16:40
qwazixyep +1 to predefined paddings. I see that sailfish has this problem. Devs go and stick elements to the edges of the screen => ugly16:41
faenilqwazix, ok so we should provide a container16:41
faenilqwazix, specs :)16:41
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faenilI still think having the page pop arrow at top left is not a clever idea when you use it on mobiles16:50
faenilit will get annoying imho, because you always have to stretch your thumb to reach it..16:50
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sledgesthat's what venemo said the other day too on here16:52
faeniloh :)16:54
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alteregoI like bottom left like Harmattan17:11
faenilalterego, yes, close to your thumb17:11
alteregoNot good for lefties though17:11
faenilalterego, I'm one of those :p17:11
alteregoYou'd be fine with top left then :P17:11
Sfiet_Konstantinwhat about putting header on the bottom17:12
faenilno, it's still not doable with 4.5"+ displays17:12
Sfiet_Konstantinso it is actually a footer17:12
Sfiet_Konstantin\o/ everybody !17:12
faenilSfiet_Konstantin, hello17:12
alteregoActually yeah, that's pretty awkward still.17:12
Sfiet_Konstantinthink: WP footer toolbar, with the sort of pulley menu17:12
alteregoI wonder what a more vertical based interface would be like.17:12
Sfiet_Konstantinand what about configurable position for the back button ? :)17:12
alteregoWhere the pages go up/down rather than left/right17:12
faenilalterego, I did that in my first Qt app :D17:13
alteregoCould use shaders and have a swipe gesture from the edges, that "peels" the pages from where ever.17:13
faenilbasically you had a matrix of pages, you could go both up/down and left/right :D17:13
alteregoAs long as it's a side.17:14
alteregoThen maybe use swipe up or down to go home.17:14
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faenilI wonder if qwazix is still reading :D17:15
sledgesi offered to make browser nav bar at the bottom, but qwazix didn't like17:16
sledgeshe said it clashes with context/content-rollers iirc17:17
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alteregofaenil: I think liqbase had something like that17:17
sledgesinstead he went for something pullable -- i.e. pull as much as you like until you can reach without thumb stretch17:17
* sledges still wants to see that in actual practice :)17:18
alteregoI might have a play with shader page transition effects.17:23
alteregoI guess it's a bit close to BB10 though, though there's is a bit of a cheap fade.17:23
faenilwhat is close to bb10?17:24
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alteregoHaving a page peel effect. BB10 has something like that iirc.17:27
alteregoBut it's not a peel, just kinda fades in at odd angles.17:27
qwazixI'm not super happy with the back button either. But I've yet to see a soluction that doesn't require to lose a full-width rectangle of realestate17:27
alteregoI like how sailfish does it, though I sometimes think the "dots" should be at the bottom.17:28
qwazixI think qml has a severe problem with nested flickables, and it is manifested a great deal in sailfish.  Despite the amazing qml written by sailors, qml still mixes up vertical with horizontal swipes quite a lot.17:30
qwazixStill, I'm listening for suggestions for the back button as long as it works always and doesn't introduce a new toolbar.17:32
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faenilqwazix, what about header? do you think it's usable with those big displays ?17:37
faenilheader drawer17:37
faenilthis indecision makes me want to stop working on glacier :p17:39
situTried to boot latest nemo image from
situ it gives me a grey screen.17:41
faenilsitu, did you follow the instructions17:42
situyou mean the opaqueme fix ?17:43
faenilsitu, I think there's a vboxmanage command to run17:43
faenilsledges, isn't that vboxmanage command needed?17:44
situNot listed here
sledgessitu: vm-wayland wiki page17:44
faenilah ok, it's still my tutorial17:44
sledges(reachable from )17:44
sledgesfaenil: yes :)17:44
faenilsledges, worth putting a link to it from the download section?17:45
sledgesgo on ;)17:45
faenilnah, don't know :D17:45
qwazixfaenil, I acknowledge that big screens have induced thumb-stretching but what can we do? something should go up there. We could swap the header with content but not all apps are scrollable lists. When trying to be productive, the content IMO is more important than the toolbar, thus should be in a more accessible place17:46
faenilqwazix, imho we can avoid putting interactive controls in the upper part of the screen, that's what we can do :)17:47
qwazixand put what?17:47
faenilsomething like what was suggested, move header to footer17:48
qwazixThen we give more importance to the tools than the content of our app. Think about apps that have a canvas, spreadsheets, documents, drawings, photo editing17:49
qwazixyou'll have an open drawer with your tools right where you should have your content to edit17:49
faenilqwazix, I disagree, I don't see how moving your eyes a bit up would be a problem17:50
faenilvs stretching your thumb and changing hold of the phone every time you want to do something17:50
qwazixfaenil, please stop thinking about a twitter app. When you are in any app that is not list-based, the majority of interactions are with your canvas, not the toolbar17:51
situactually it's a vdi image, it shouldn't be used as iso17:52
situI think this instruction is outdated then " After downloading change the extension of the image from .img to .iso and start VirtualBox. "17:52
sledgesNOTE: YOU DON'T NEED THE "Finalizing the installation" step. Also, you don't have any .iso to set, instead go to17:53
qwazix"every time you want to do something" can be translated to "change position of the cursor" or "draw on screen" or "change active cell"17:53
qwazixwould you prefer to stretch your thumb to do the above instead of, say Bold or Undo?17:54
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faenilqwazix, you should also compare how many apps are list based vs how many are not17:54
qwazixfaenil, it depends on the platform17:54
faenildoes it?17:55
qwazixsailfish for example only allows for list based apps17:55
faenilI'm inclined to say most of apps are scrolling based on mobiles17:55
qwazixand we can change this17:55
faenilthere are not many canvas based apps the way you mean it17:55
faenilwhat is the reason?17:55
qwazixI think that the reasons are that the canvas apps are harder to create, list based apps are mostly website adaptations17:56
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qwazixAs mobile platforms go forward, and responsive web design evolves, the need for one-app-for-each website will dwindle. On iphones people are already used to having apps that do things.17:57
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qwazixand doing things requires a canvas17:58
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qwazixYou are right that most apps are list-based. But are they the apps that really matter? Do those apps have many controls that would need a dock anyway?18:00
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qwazixOn the other hand putting the dock on the bottom edge allows us to hide it completely and use swipe from bottom to show it18:01
faenilso let's see, which are the apps that matter?18:01
faenilsocial apps --> all list based18:01
faenilthen, what do people use?18:01
qwazixre: social apps, the header will probably be tabbed, so no actions to click anyway18:02
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faenilqwazix, yes but you're forgetting the precious go back arrow, which is in the header18:03
qwazixand what actions do you actually do that do not involve clicking on a friend/update or generally something inside the list?18:03
faenilgoing back :p18:04
qwazixfaenil, do you think it would work if we just moved the header to the bottom, as a whole?18:04
faenilyes, if it doesn't shrink the view18:05
faeniland maybe we hide it in some clever way18:05
faenilor even without hiding it18:05
faenilsince then it would be too many steps to do something in the header18:05
qwazixwhile I'm willing to discuss header position, I'm adamant about the possibility of having the header open and continue working (i.e. shrinking)18:06
faenilbut that's what causes the issues you were talking about, shrinking..18:07
qwazixI'm sure it will provide much more productivity to the user, and will allow us to enter the tablet world more easily, instead of just having a huge phone interface18:07
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qwazixwhat about the title text? is it out of place at the bottom?18:09
qwazixI'm not sure, at first it sounds weird to have the name of the view at the bottom, but on the other hand why not18:10
Morpog_PCI kinda like the ide18:11
qwazixMorpog_PC, which one?18:13
Morpog_PCheader at bottom18:13
faenillet's see if wazd comes alive18:14
faeniland see what he thinks as well18:14
faenilfk_lx must be idle18:15
faenilsitu, oh, I've never used an iso, afair18:17
faenil(sorry I missed your earlier msg)18:18
situStill no luck with bootimg VM.18:18
situI am stuck on the grey window.18:18
faenilsitu, did you run that command using the name of your vm?18:20
situwhich one ?18:20
faenilvboxmanage blabla18:20
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situOhh right18:22
situI missed that command.18:22
situIt's running now.18:22
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situLooking nice. It has improved a lot since the last time I used nemo.18:32
faenilsitu, have you updated?18:33
faenilpackages etc18:33
situNot yet.18:33
situI just fixed the trasparency issue.18:33
situRunning zypper up now18:34
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sledges** situ has quit IRC (Time pingout)18:44
faenilqwazix, let me know your final feelings :D18:46
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*** ChanServ sets mode: +o faenil19:46
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ZogG_laptopjust read news on russian linux site with sledges video19:54
faenilcool :)19:58
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jet247Hi all, I'm having a bit of trouble with the partitions on an N950, I'm following the Mer Wiki but my exact issue doesn't seem to be there, can anyone help?22:29
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faeniljet247, sledges usually can help with that, but he's probably not active atm, I suggest to try again tomorrow  ;)22:30
sledgesactive active ;P22:33
sledgesjet247: fire away ;)22:33
* faenil shoots sledges 22:33
* sledges dead X_x22:33
* sledges ' ghost: ok, where were we?22:34
jet247Hi Sledges, I've managed to telnet into the N950 to see whats up with the partitions and it seems that i have 3, rather than 4 (?) and it gives two of the same errors - Partition 1 does not end on cylinder boundary and Partition 2 does not end on cylinder boundary22:34
sledgesjet247: boundary endings are not errors22:34
sledgeswhat partitions are there?22:34
sledges1 2 3 ?22:35
jet247Yeah it shows 1, 2, 322:35
sledgesstarts and ends?22:35
sledgesof each ;) helps :)22:35
* sledges looks22:37
sledgesjet247: you have a case of
* sledges feels like a doctor for a moment22:39
sledgesjust with different numbers22:39
sledgesdelete partition 222:40
jet247Ah okay, that's what was getting me confused22:40
sledgesre-create partition 2 with start 288513 end 41958422:41
sledgeswrite partiton table22:41
sledgesmoutn partition 2 and see if it's valid data first22:41
sledgesthen if it is, create partition 4: start 160513 end 28851222:41
jet247Just trying to do that now22:44
faenilI should get informed about these issues sooner or later :)22:45
* sledges many times thought Äof fixing the @#§# moslo or just writing instructions how to DIY partition things22:46
jet247when I mounted partition 2 it didn't do anything is that normal?22:46
sledgesbut how do you test this - by scrubbing your device and hope partitioning to fail? :)22:46
sledgesjet247: do ls /mnt22:47
sledgesis data there? :)22:47
sledges(and yes, if mount does not output anything, that's good news in the world of linux)22:47
jet247Well there's certainly a lot of data that just popped up when I did that22:48
sledgesfaenil: I also think it's the moslo kernel problem. we use kernel from rcg in moslo, but it might be braking partitioning sometimes (race condition?). but we can'Åt revert to moslo kernel because that one doesnt boot nemo :D22:48
sledgesjet247: very very good22:48
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faenilsledges, ah, lol22:48
sledgesnow umount and back to fdisk22:48
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sledgesprobably we could use original moslo kernel to partition, and rcg's for all subsequent boots (or just use ubiboot)22:49
jet247unmount before creating partition 4?22:49
sledgesi think the latter is less messy22:49
sledgesjet247: yes22:49
sledgesfaenil: yet again, all depends how much traction around n9xx will get pulled in..22:50
jet247This may sound slightly obvious but is that 1s /unmount? (learning as I go!)22:50
sledgesumount /mnt22:51
faenilsledges, yeah..22:51
sledgestype less, execute many :)22:51
jet247when i've gone to create partition 4, it says that 160513 is already allocated?22:52
sledgesjet247: what's the layout currently?22:52
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jet247it seems to have gone back to what it was before?22:54
sledgesdid you press 'w' to write the partitions?22:56
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sledgesalso, if it shows files under partition2 the way it is now, we better not format that yet ;)22:57
jet247Ah no i didn't, I've gone and redone the deletion on partition 2 and added partition 4 in and it's let me do it... I now have.....22:58
sledgesjet247: ok looks good22:59
sledgesso have you pressed 'w' now ?22:59
jet247not yet, I'm guessing I should do though?22:59
jet247The partition table has been altered. Calling ioctl() to re-read partition table23:00
sledgesnow let's moutn partition223:00
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jet247right okay, through mount /dev/mmcblk0p2 /mnt; ls /mnt/; umount /mnt ?23:01
sledgesyou're learning fast :P23:02
jet247I'm getting there :P23:02
jet247right it came up with loads of purple words when I did that?23:02
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sledgescould you paste the (no worries, no privacy issues there)23:03
sledgesif it's like /bin /etc etc :)23:03
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jet247yeah it starts with bin then dev23:03
sledgesi know, but i need to see :P23:03
jet247haha :P23:03
sledgesbecause partition4 might be similar23:04
sledgesbut not quite :P23:04
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sledgesok, let's do the partition4 now23:04
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jet247mount: mounting /dev/mmcblk0p4 on /mnt failed: Invalid argument umount: can't umount /mnt: Invalid argument23:05
jet247that sounds good!23:05
sledgesand now format it ;)23:05
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sledgesmkfs.ext4 /dev/mmcblk0p423:06
sledgesif it can't find ext423:06
sledgesthen reboot ;)23:06
sledgesand let's see if you can boot to harmattan23:06
jet247Writing inode tables: done                             Creating journal (16384 blocks): done Writing superblocks and filesystem accounting information: done23:07
sledgesfair play ;)23:07
sledgesso now you can quite telnet23:07
jet247that's one thing I don't actually know how to do haha23:07
jet247brilliant, then unplug?23:08
sledgesand see what it writes on screen23:08
jet247it said unable to write alternateOS kernal, rebooting to harmattan23:08
sledgesnow check if you still hava harma ;P23:08
sledges(if that's amongst your intentions ofc)23:09
jet247I'd actually like to dualboot nitdroid and harmattan, but this was hard enough! haha23:09
sledgesok, so you wanna keep harma, fair play23:09
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sledgesand fingers crosscompiled23:09
jet247Yes! it worked! Thank you :D23:10
sledgesyou want nemo, right?23:10
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* sledges *cough* *cough*23:10
jet247haha yes!23:10
sledgesso get back to moslo!23:10
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jet247on my way!23:11
jet247Haha didn't expect that ;)23:12
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sledgesi can't unsee that video since days! keeps coming back that random stumbling:)23:13
jet247right im back in moslo23:13
sledgesit should've exported your fresh partition to your PC23:14
sledges(linux pc ;))23:15
sledgesor cm23:15
jet247I'm actually on a mac at the moment, but yeah it does seem to have done that23:15
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sledgeswell mac has notorious problems about extracting tar.gzs to ext423:16
sledgeskeeping ownership, permissions etc23:16
sledgesgot a linux vm handy?  ;)23:16
jet247I'm afraid I don't :(23:16
sledgestime to get one :)23:17
sledgesis all free23:17
sledgesalternatively, you can go back to harmattan23:17
sledgesand do it from there23:17
sledgeswithinside the phone :)23:17
faenilisn't it enough to install tarbsd?23:17
faenilbsdtar sorry23:17
jet247oh really? I never knew you could do it from harmattan23:18
faenilI've never used a MAC, fyi :D23:18
jet247I'm not even sure what bsdtar is haha. Still around sledges?23:23
* sledges nods23:23
sledgesfaenil: also problems with rw mounting ext4s..23:23
sledgessandy_locke had those23:24
faenilsledges, ok, remember me to stay away from that OS :D23:24
sledgeslet's not scare jet247 away23:24
sledgesbut yes23:24
jet247Ah okay, how easy is it to do straight from harmattan?23:24
sledgesjet247: quite cool23:25
sledgesgive it a shot23:25
jet247I definitely won't be scared away :), without you guys I'd still have an unusable phone!23:25
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* sledges next up in agenda, getting jet247 a nice linuxy laptop23:25
jet247Haha the way it's going.... it's definitely a possibility23:26
* sledges hides23:26
jet247haha, i can just unplug this now can't i? even though it's loaded the rootfs23:26
sledgesjet247: heads up - nemo is wip ;)23:26
sledgesjet247: yes23:27
jet247I'm looking forward to trying it23:27
faenilah, he's never tried nemo?23:28
faeniljet247, don't get your hopes high :p it's nothing close to a daily usable distro :D23:28
sledgesbut you can make calls23:28
sledgesvia terminal23:29
jet247haha still interesting to see and make a phone call on :P23:29
faeniljet247, that's the spirit!23:29
sledgesbring it on!23:29
faeniljet247, we're working on a new UI, codename glacier23:29
sledgesjet247: and is very easy to contribute back *cough* *sniff*23:29
faeniljet247, this is what it *will* be like, kina23:29
faeniland yeah, as sledges says, it's *very awesomely* easy to contribute :D23:30
jet247looking good guys!23:30
sledgesif you like IRC that is ;P23:30
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jet247how do you contribute?23:31
sledgeswell, what makes you itch?23:31
sledgesyou fix it - you scratch it :)23:31
sledgesanything goes, testing, design, coding23:31
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jet247Ah okay, hmm I'll have to think of what I could contribute then23:32
faeniljet247, do you know Qt/QML?23:33
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sledges"learning new things"Â also works out23:33
faenil*or*, are you willing to learn23:33
* faenil highfives sledges 23:33
jet247I'm definitely willing to learn23:34
* sledges faenil 7o23:34
sledgespeople on this channel are here to help23:34
sledgesso, jet247, where were we?23:35
jet247booted into harmattan, ready to give nemo a go23:35
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sledgesjet247: have you got a image ready?23:35
sledgeswith nemo23:36
jet247Erm no I don't23:36
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sledgeslet's see how fast your internet is *g*23:36
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jet247it's not bad, fibre 60meg I think, last time i checked haha23:38
sledgesconnect your phone23:38
sledgesand choose usb mass storage23:38
jet247yep done that23:39
sledgescopy the tar.bz2 into there23:39
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sledgeslaunch terminal23:41
jet247on the phone?23:42
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sledgesfor a laugh ;)23:42
sledgesis faster if you do from ssh, but isn't that just more fun (there wont be much typing, no worries)23:44
jet247I presume to do this I've gotta do this in developer mode on the phone?23:44
faenilgood night o/ and good luck jet24723:44
sledgesafter devel-su23:44
jet247Thanks faenil!23:45
sledgesfaenil have a go/od one23:45
jet247after devel-su?23:45
sledgesjet247: yes, open terminal, and write devel-su23:45
jet247just installing all the extra developer bits23:47
sledgesabout time ;)23:47
jet247just restarting.....23:48
jet247as a side note.... any easy way to get rid of the warning on bootup?23:48
jet247not that it matters that much, just thought i'd ask :)23:49
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sledgessorry to break the news :)23:50
jet247not that simple then haha23:50
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jet247right i've typed in devel-su and its asking for a password?23:50
sledgesis fine, i never minded that nag screen :D23:50
sledges(hence the name)23:50
sledgesok so23:50
sledgeswhat's your password?23:50
jet247which password? haha23:50
sledgesis your password23:51
jet247now it says busybox?23:51
* sledges had to look that up... it's bin a while!23:51
sledgesjet247: good23:51
jet247haha i hopefully won't forget it23:52
sledgesand # in front? means you're r00t :D~23:52
jet247ahh yeah now it starting to make sense23:52
jet247slightly haha23:52
sledgesmount the 4th partition ;)23:53
jet247haha which is.... through mount /dev/mmcblk0p4 /mnt; ls /mnt/; umount /mnt23:54
sledgesjust the first one23:54
jet247mount /dev/mmcblk0p4 /mnt23:54
jet247mount: permission denied (are you root?)23:55
sledgeswhen you have identity crisis as well)23:56
jet247just says root23:57
* sledges kicks aegis23:57
alteregoWow, you're still using Harmattan? ;)23:57
jet247Sounds like i'm the only one still using harmattan!23:58
alteregoThe is nemo mobile ..23:58
sledgesdoes `aegisctl-s` do anything?..23:58
jet247true haha, I'll give it a go23:58
sledgesalterego: ;) he has a mac on his desk/lap ;P23:58
sledgesso we're flashing nemo from within :)23:59
sledgessorry jet24723:59
sledgesaegisctl -s23:59
alteregoWhy not use mer sdk and virtual box?23:59
sledgesalterego: he refused23:59
alteregoOh well.23:59
sledgesand accepted when i offered to do this in harmattan23:59
sledgesi shouldn't have :D23:59
jet247I didn't refuse? haha23:59

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