Sunday, 2014-01-26

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thomas_schI saw on https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Nemo/Status/Matrix that the functionality of the n900 with wayland isn't yet tested?does this mean that there is no version yet that can boot it up or is there an image somewhere I could give a try/can I build it expecting it to show me something? :)00:38
faenilthomas_sch, you can ask vakkov the current status :) don't know if it boots already00:38
sledgesthomas_sch: vakkov has an image00:38
faenilI heard he had issues with wifi at least00:38
faenilFIRST! lol00:38
sledgesin the middle of the night ;) that's some support going on! :D00:39
faenilhighfive! o/00:39
sledges7o00:39
thomas_sch:D00:39
thomas_schhappy to see you all so lively ;) I will ask vakkov as soon as he answers00:40
faenilcool :)00:40
sledgesthomas_sch: you can also ping him on twitter (@crazybulgarian) so he senses more traction coming up ;)00:42
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M4rtinKI'd be quite interested what the performance of Wayland running on N900 is :)00:54
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faenilM4rtinK, did you see the perf on n9/n950?00:55
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M4rtinKfaenil: on the N95001:00
M4rtinKfaenil: pretty good I would say01:00
faenilreally? :/ I'd say noticeably worse than nemo x11, + no vsync01:00
M4rtinKfaenil: and surprisingly stable, not a single crash even when trying silly stuff01:00
faenil(buggy vsync actually)01:00
M4rtinKfaenil: considerable improvement for Wayland given its buggy state even quite recently01:01
M4rtinKfaenil: maybe I'm just less demanding :)01:01
sledgesfaenil is our >=60fps man ;)01:01
M4rtinKfaenil: having "used" the Neo01:01
faenilno really guys :D01:02
M4rtinKfaenil: and using N900 :)01:02
faenilI remember nemo x11 being much smoother01:02
faenilnot saying nemo wayland is unusable01:02
faenilbut when compositing, it's a lot worse01:02
sledgesit was smoother, but are you suggesting to go back to x11? :)01:02
faenilnot that subjective :D01:02
faenilsledges, well, I don't have experience with x11 (luckily, some would say), but since I heard many things lost mental sanity because of it, I won't :D01:03
faenils/things/people/01:03
sledgesand simply whole nemo has gone wayland01:03
faenilyeah, that as well01:03
faenilthere's no turning back :) but none would like to anyway ;)01:04
faeniljust have to optimize this stack, and it will FTW \o/01:04
sledgesso gotta fight with what's on the table..01:04
sledgesyep01:04
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faenilI just imagined it very different :) everything talking about wayland as if it were the best thing since sliced bread01:04
faenilspend a month trying to get nemo wayland to boot, and what I got was noticeable worse experience01:05
faenilit was a trauma, I'll never get over it :D01:05
sledgesit's not wayland's fault01:05
sledgesand we started talking about n900 ;P01:05
faenilyeah I know, it's the whole thing01:05
sledgesits performance might be the same as n95001:05
sledges;)01:05
sledgeson wayland01:05
sledgesbecause the stack is the bottleneck01:05
sledgesnot the hardware01:06
sledges(*more noticeable bottleneck)01:06
faenilactually according to master stskee it's the sgx530 that sucks at compositing01:06
sledgesso how does x11 ask it to do nicely?01:06
sledges;)01:06
faenilx11 did half half01:07
faenilit wasn't all composited as it is now01:07
faenilit was actually in direct rendering most of the time (afaiu)01:07
sledgesso you're saying that sgx530 chip itself sucks01:07
sledgesnot the driver01:07
sledges(quoting our master ;))01:07
faenilwell, I'm a bit confused about the matter01:08
sledgesif that is true (sadly), means we're fighting windmills01:08
faenilI've been asking so many people about this direct rendering01:08
faeniln9...01:08
faenilperformance01:08
faeniletc etc01:08
faeniland I haven't got a clear idea about it yet :D01:08
sledgesfor the fb matters, it's all about blipping01:09
sledgesbut where the frame is rendered01:09
sledgesthat's where bottlenecks come in01:09
faenilfor example sgx530 doesn't have hw overlays iirc01:09
faenilit only has video overlays01:09
sledgesGPU HW vs in-house SW/compositing/direct-rendering01:09
faenilso the optimization which will eventually be done for jolla won't affect n901:09
faenilwhich will stay in its rock-age status01:10
faenilstone-age01:10
sledgeswell i was pretty sure n9 can be improved mostly by improving hw-dependent wayland rendering stack01:10
sledgesbut also we should disable rendering the offscreen QML layers01:10
sledgeslike app switcher when a front app is on top01:10
sledgesthat's about lipstick-colorful-home01:11
faenilI've been discussing with aknight about improving perf on n9 and I think the final thing was that we could try using the video overlays of sgx53001:11
sledgeszbenjamin was poking that01:11
faenilno that's done already01:11
sledgesand no big improv?01:11
faenil(somebody afterwards confirmed that this was the current behaviour already, at least afaik)01:12
sledgesoki01:12
sledgesTI DSS has a nifty system for rendering a final frame01:13
sledgeslike, it has a video layer from camera01:13
sledgesand then overlays an graphics layer01:13
sledgesusing a colour key (alpha if you are lucky)01:13
sledgesfor camera controls01:13
faenilthat could be what the video overlays are01:13
sledgesthat's as far as i worked with TI DSS01:13
sledgesbut we are talking about [Qt/QML] graphics layers/composition (not-video)01:14
faenilyeah but they're called video overlays01:14
* sledges always thought video means a stream from a DSP - capture device (camera/NTSC/PAL sources) 01:15
faenilI don't know man, you played with that you could be right, that's what I was told :)01:15
sledgesbut probably could be a stream from anywhere :)01:15
faenilyeah, that's what I got of it01:16
sledgesto aid compositing..01:16
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faenilbtw, good night :)01:19
sledgesa good btw :)01:21
sledgesnite!01:21
thomas_schhmm vakkov btw if you read this and want to answer you can query me :) and gn8 faenil01:21
faenilo/01:21
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wazdmorning people07:05
Stskeepsmorn wazd07:05
tbrmoaning07:15
coderushappy morning!07:17
coderus*Tea time07:17
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sledges\o12:52
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goroborohey all... I'm using OBS on the build.merproject.org to try to build a linux C util for sailfish... I'm having a little trouble... can someone help me out for a minute?18:23
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goroboroproblem is that I keep getting an 'unresolvable' build... nothing provides gcc, binutils etc... I'm new to OBS so I was wondering if I didn't set something up correctly18:25
faenilgoroboro, that most likely means you're building against the wrong repo18:26
goroboroI just added the sailfish repo18:27
faenilmm I don't know how that repo is handled, lbt probably knows18:28
goroboroI see that it is trying to build for i586... which I don't believe that I care about18:28
faenilmaybe you only added i586 repo to build against?18:28
goroborobrb phone18:28
wazdevening people :)18:34
faenilwazd, o/18:34
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goroborommm have to dash... will take a look at this OBS stuff tomorrow18:52
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wazdfaenil, qwazix: check it out, what do you think? (WIP) https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/96361817/Nemo/Glacier/ui1.png19:01
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qwazixwazd, we decided to keep the header up top and move the back arrow only, back arrow (or gesture for that matter is still TBD)19:02
wazdI think toolbar label for initial bar should appear when you open it and disappear when close19:03
qwazixback behaviour obvious choices are: (a) gesture like sailfish (b) overlay button like MicroB fullscreen on bottom left (c) edge swipe, but I strongly vote against (c)19:04
wazdyou mean header and drawer are still combined and back button is where?19:04
wazdoh, ok19:04
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wazdwhy are you against edge swipe?19:05
qwazixbecause different edge swipes are confusing. IMO harmattan nailed it19:05
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wazdwhy different? it's always "back/home"19:07
qwazixdifferent from each edge19:07
wazdhmm, so Glacier don't use edge swipes at all?19:08
wazdlike swipe down to close19:09
qwazixnow it is minimize from all 4 edges19:10
qwazixswipe to close is nice, but having each edge perform a different thing will be confusing19:11
qwazixas I said, I think harmattan behaviour is the best19:11
wazdNever heard of it from anyone19:11
wazdof confusion19:11
qwazixI wasn't clear, down to close is not confusing.19:12
qwazixif we add more edge-specific swipes IMO it will be19:12
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qwazixI tried harmattan with swipe-manager, BB10, W8 and sailfish and also gave them to other people, it's hard to muscle-memorize more than two different actions on swipes. It also makes operation with other hand weird.19:14
qwazixI like (a) - sailfish style back more, but qml has issues with direction recognition and it is obvious in sailfish, going back fails frequently enough to be annoying19:15
wazd_I think pull back the page from the left edge is so obvious guesture that I can't come up with more obvious one imo, especialy eith all these visual animations19:15
qwazixand if you are on the first page of the app?19:16
qwazixminimize?19:16
wazd_then you minimize it19:16
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wazd_back/home19:16
qwazixsounds sane19:16
wazd_even a book has 2 gestures :P19:17
qwazixso in general it does what other edges do, except if you are deeper in19:17
wazd_yes, that was the idea19:17
qwazixand if we make the back animation like ipad safari back gesture it will also be visually consistent19:17
wazd_what do you think of drawer visual style btw?19:18
qwazixhttp://cdn.iphonehacks.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/IMG_0032.jpg19:18
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qwazixwazd_, I like it19:18
qwazixbut is it better enough to warrant a change of course?19:19
wazd_yeah, I was thinking about that kind of visual clues19:19
qwazixAIUI faenil is almost finished with it19:19
wazd_oh, didn't know that19:20
qwazixwazd_, would you like to spec the back behaviour?19:20
wazd_Yeah, I guess I can do that19:20
qwazix:-)19:20
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wazd_as for the drawer, I think faenil can still check it out and decide if it's worth his time :)19:21
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qwazixno problem with me19:22
wazd_It's almost completely spec'ed, no random dimensions and stuff19:22
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qwazixthough in accordance with hurrian's mockups the small labels (Font, File etc) should be uppercase19:23
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wazd_Well, not sure if that trick follows typography rules but I guess we can add some kerning19:25
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qwazixI don't generally love uppercase either but it doesn't look bad and we kept it like that up to now. In general, as we have looots of work to do I prefer we don't lose time backtracking except if it's a big mistake to go with what is already decided19:28
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wazd_alright, I need to get some sleep, cya tomorrow :)19:31
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qwazixbye!19:41
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superuserninehello, I need urgent help regarding my nemo22:38
superusernineI get 'Repartitioning failed! you might be in truble' on n922:39
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tbrthat's covered on the wiki, isn't it?22:39
superusernineno, it dosn;t cover my problem22:39
superusernineHow to reflash to meego? Nemo did something to my phone. I get bb5_rdc_cert_read failed.22:40
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tbrhttps://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Nemo/Installing#FATAL:_Re-partitioning_failed.21_You_might_be_in_trouble.2122:44
tbrit sure does cover this22:44
superusernineI looked at that for an hour22:44
superusernineActually, I used my whole day trying to do this yesterday, from that same page.22:45
tbr16G or 64G?22:46
superusernine16 BG22:46
superusernine16 GB22:46
tbrthen telnet in and check it out22:46
superuserninehow to telnet?22:47
tbrhttps://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Nemo/Installing#Nokia_N9_16GB22:47
tbrummm, you have usb connected right?22:47
superuserninetelnet 192.168.2.15. Keeps trying to connect, but dosn't.22:47
superusernineOf course I have usb22:47
tbryou need to set your PC IP address on the USB interface to 192.168.2.14 first22:48
superuserninehow22:48
superusernineim noobie at this22:48
superusernineusing linx22:48
tbrthen you shouldn't have been doing this AT ALL in the first place22:49
superusernineI mean at telneting22:49
tbrcomment stands22:49
superusernineHow do i 'set my PC IP address on the USB interface to 192.168.2.14 first'?22:50
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superusernineCan SOMEONE help please?22:52
Yanielwhat os?22:53
superuserninelinux22:53
Yanieldistro?22:53
superuserninefedora22:53
superusernine2022:53
superuserninehave flasher and beta flasher installed22:56
superusernineNo help yet?22:58
Yanielhmm so from my experience on arch linux22:58
Yanieluse ifconfig -a to find out what the usb interface is called22:58
superuserninegot this: em1: flags=4099<UP,BROADCAST,MULTICAST>  mtu 1500         ether f0:de:f1:05:18:f3  txqueuelen 1000  (Ethernet)         RX packets 0  bytes 0 (0.0 B)         RX errors 0  dropped 0  overruns 0  frame 0         TX packets 0  bytes 0 (0.0 B)         TX errors 0  dropped 0 overruns 0  carrier 0  collisions 0         device interrupt 20  memory 0xf2500000-f2520000    enp0s29u1u2c2: flags=4163<UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,MULT22:59
Yanielthen use ifconfig to set yourself an ip address on that interface, and finally, enable it22:59
superuserninehow, may i ask?22:59
YanielI don't know, I have iproute2 instead of ifconfig & friends23:00
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Yanielbut "how to set ip address with ifconfig" should not be too difficult to google23:00
superusernineso, how? No good answers when i binged it23:02
Eztranman ifconfig, anyone?23:02
superusernineI don't have command man23:03
Yanielwat23:03
EztranAmazed this didn't turn up when searching anyway: http://linux.die.net/man/8/ifconfig23:03
superuserninelet me try23:04
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superuserninewhen 'ifconfig 192.168.0.15 up' typed, this is shown: 192.168.0.15: ERROR while getting interface flags: No such device23:05
superusernineno answers?23:06
Yaniel192.168.0.15 is not a device23:06
Yaniel(device == interface)23:07
EztranIt's probably called usb0 or similar, but can't speak for your setup.23:07
superusernineshould i get arch23:07
YanielI don't think that would be a good idea23:07
superusernineanyway, i'll ask this at maemo talk23:08
YanielI have certain doubts that you would not get it installed23:08
superuserninewhat?23:08
superuserninebye... out of here.23:08
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