Sunday, 2014-04-06

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lpotterme01:37
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virtualdGOD MORGON GOD MORGON04:00
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Deformatqwazix sandy_locke http://mobile.theverge.com/2014/4/5/5585216/team-behind-webos-releases-mochi-redesign-open-source04:15
DeformatAlso, welcome back, qwazix04:16
Deformatlocusf as well, whoever is interested: basically, a lot of graphic work could be used from WebOS directly as temporary UI elements.04:19
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virtualdWhat can we run it on?04:20
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stephgning!08:09
Stskeepsmorning08:09
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locusfmorning08:32
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faenilo/ morning09:12
tbrmoaning09:18
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sledgesninging!11:00
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stephgnoonnoon! I think you mwan11:04
stephgs/w/e/11:04
stephgso I have questions11:08
stephgit's not immediately clear to me how lipstick gets started11:08
stephgas I can't seem to find systemd related settings for it in /etc/systemd11:08
stephgit clearly does, but where...?11:08
Stskeepsusr/lib/systemd/user11:08
stephgta11:09
stephgoh that looks alot more like it. Not very familiar with systemd yet11:09
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qwazixI suppose it's better to keep home-screen and app mockups in a seperate repo from controls, no?11:55
locusfsure that works too11:56
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qwazixalso, what do you think of stealing the sailfish dynamic accent color idea? Or do you prefer per-app accent color like harmattan?12:18
qwazixor we can go WP and make it user-configurable12:19
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locusfwell if user-configurable is doable then lets do that14:00
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qwazixhttp://play.qwazix.com/shared/homescreen.png14:09
qwazixand14:09
qwazixhttp://play.qwazix.com/shared/homescreen-editmode.png14:09
qwazixbbl14:10
locusfdynamically loadable qml as widgets, challenge accepted14:22
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Deformatqwazix14:44
qwazixyep14:45
Deformatlike the stuff you've done, perhaps you could move that bottombar with icons a bit more higher on the lockscreen, akin to WP814:45
qwazixright now the lockscreen doesn't have status icons at all, maybe we should put the most basic there yeah14:46
Deformatalso, I'd go with per-app accent a la harmattan14:47
qwazix:nod: I seem to prefer that approach too14:47
faenilDeformat, are you the guy who was working on graphics?14:48
Deformatqwazix is the boss arpund here, I have been working a bit as well, but haven't got to actually finish and upload stuff14:49
faenilyeah ok, anyway nice to meet you :)14:49
faenilI've been away while you joined as I was busy with exams14:49
faenilbut I'm kind of back now :)14:49
Deformatnice to meet you too! :)14:49
qwazixoo, hi faenil :))14:49
faenilwelcome ::)14:49
faenilqwazix, hey mate :) long time no talk eh? :)14:50
qwazixyeah, I guess we both been quite busy14:50
faenilyeah14:50
qwazixfaenil, what do you think about home screen? http://play.qwazix.com/shared/homescreen.png14:51
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AndChat|551025qwazix: here's something else I've been thinking at a while ago, whilst you were missing:14:52
faenilqwazix, it's cool, I just think it will take time to do that widget stuff :) but hey, we're here for that! :D14:52
faenilI'm also a bit bothered by the performance implications of having widgets there14:52
AndChat|551025(Deformat here, wait a sec)14:52
qwazixI like that attitude :-D14:52
faenilapps icons are already costly to draw at the moment, due to the fact that each icon is drawn with 1 gl call14:53
faenilso, having widgets as well could slow it down even more14:53
faenil(see sailfishos not being smooth when scrolling apps list)14:53
qwazixOn the other hand I think it shouldn't be that hard. I was thinking something like hijacking the freedesktop.org desktop files to for qml files instead of just icons14:53
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AndChat|551025Right.14:54
qwazix(I think that's how maemo5 handled widgets too)14:54
AndChat|551025http://alexandrutenie.deviantart.com/art/Nemo-icon-philosophy-440319111?ga_submit_new=10%253A139482134914:54
AndChat|551025Long story short: maybe we could bother with having special accents for some system apps14:54
faenilqwazix, I know nothing about widget implementations in any system , so I could be overcomplicating it ;)14:54
AndChat|551025As in: maybe we could have blue for texting and telephony apps, green for, let's say, terminal14:55
AndChat|551025Purple for media14:56
qwazixDeformat, not bad. It's cool to have alternate icon themes, and it's easy to switch too.14:56
AndChat|551025And let the devs do whatever they want in their apps.14:56
AndChat|551025Thanks14:56
qwazixfaenil, I was thinking something like including Loaders with dynamic sourceComponent inside homescreen14:56
qwazixthen load the src from .desktop files14:57
qwazixthe arrangement should complicate things a bit though14:57
qwazixit's not a flat grid anymore14:57
AndChat|551025Another thing I asked (but I know it's difficult to implement) is about a font change:14:58
AndChat|551025http://www.mail-archive.com/mer-general@lists.merproject.org/msg01419.html14:58
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qwazixI didn't know about clear sans, and Fira sans came a little late (after we decided to go with open sans)15:00
qwazixwhat languages does clear support that open sans doesn't?15:00
AndChat|551025Greek15:01
AndChat|551025Vietnamese15:01
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AndChat|551025Russian15:01
AndChat|551025Not sure about Turkish15:01
qwazixOpen Sans does support Greek and Cyrillic, that's why I chose it15:01
AndChat|551025Ah.15:01
qwazix(I'm Greek)15:01
AndChat|551025Ah, kalimera! :D15:02
qwazixI would have chosen Source Sans if it wasn't for that.15:02
qwazixΚαλημέρα :)15:02
AndChat|551025Neah, I'm just a Romanian dude who went to Corfu once xD15:03
AndChat|551025(Kerkyra)15:03
qwazixIt's just kalimera with greek letters15:04
AndChat|551025Anyways,  I was mislead somehow that you guys had issues with the font, and tried to fix something xD15:04
AndChat|551025I know :p15:04
qwazixFor the time being the only issue is that it's a bit overused, so we might consider a change, but I'm still reluctant to do revisit decisions that somebody has spent time on (Open Sans is already in the repos and made default, which required some effort - packaging etc)15:06
qwazixs/do revisit/revisit/15:07
AndChat|551025Understood.15:10
AndChat|551025Btw qwazix , I was working on the music player UI, maybe I could come up with a calendar one as well?15:11
AndChat|551025Respecting the guidelines ofcourse15:12
qwazixyep, every app needs UI design15:12
faenilcome up with as many as you wish :p15:12
AndChat|551025Yay!15:12
faenilof course you have to use Glacier components15:13
qwazixI seem to remember that Morpog_ already has an app mockups repo, if not I'll create one15:13
AndChat|551025Will see what can do. I'll have Easter holidays soon.15:13
faenildon't just plan UIs to be custom for each app :p15:13
qwazixfaenil, +115:13
faenilsee which UI components are planned/available15:13
faeniland use *those* components15:13
faenilif there's any component missing which you think is vital or is needed for many apps15:13
faenilcome here, we'll discuss about it, hopefully make a spec, and implement it :)15:14
AndChat|551025Aren't the ones on the blog good enough? There was also a browser mockup...15:14
AndChat|551025(for reference)15:14
faenilhttps://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Nemo/Glacier15:16
faenilsee style there15:16
faenilthose are the components we can use15:16
AndChat|551025Ah, yeah15:17
AndChat|551025That as well15:17
faenilgtg guys, bbl :)15:19
faeniltime to get off some butt :p15:19
locusfwtf15:19
AndChat|551025Laters! I'm going as well15:20
faenilAndChat|551025, oh btw15:20
AndChat|551025?15:20
faenilAndChat|551025, if you look at that wiki, you'll notice not all components are specced15:20
faenilthat is actually a higher priority than having mockup for apps15:20
faenilwe'd first need to fill those gaps15:21
faenillaterssss15:21
faenilo/15:21
AndChat|551025By "specced" you mean "vectorized" or...15:21
faenilI mean15:21
faenilthere's a pdf saying how coders should implement that component15:21
AndChat|551025Ah, ok15:21
faenilwith measures and everything15:21
AndChat|551025Got it15:21
faenilpossibly with all the usability cases covered15:22
AndChat|551025Ok :)15:22
faenil:)15:22
AndChat|551025Ciao!15:22
faenilo/15:22
locusfsomething like here: https://github.com/qwazix/glacier-controls-spec15:22
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locusfok bye all15:22
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qwazixanybody has a screenshot of the lockscreen handy?15:41
locusfhttps://twitter.com/locusf/status/45031723645327360015:42
qwazixmany thanks15:47
Morpog_qwazix, no app mockup repo yet15:54
Morpog_just nemo-artwork15:54
qwazixMorpog_, thanks. I'll make one15:55
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faenilturns out, I'm still alive!16:59
locusfyay16:59
faenilbut after 1:20h running, you can imagine I need a shower :D16:59
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: :D17:00
Sfiet_Konstantingo make yourself clean and come after17:00
faenilxD17:00
faenilyessir!17:00
Sfiet_Konstantinlocusf: was wondering: how do you run the nemo lipstick on Jolla ?17:00
Sfiet_KonstantinPM based or simply override jolla's lipstick executable ?17:00
locusfRPM17:00
faeniloverride should work too I guess17:01
faenil(dirty though)17:01
faenilbbl17:01
Sfiet_Konstantinactually the Jolla might be the best device to develop Nemo17:01
Sfiet_Konstantin(ironically)17:01
Sfiet_Konstantinno need to have a rootfs, etc. and no issues with drivers17:01
locusfit is right now :)17:02
Sfiet_Konstantin:)17:02
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: thanks for the email in sailfish ml btw17:03
Sfiet_Konstantinit goes to the point17:03
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faenilSfiet_Konstantin, I was already using Jolla for the header, in January :)17:24
Sfiet_Konstantinah ?17:24
Sfiet_Konstantin:)17:24
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: did you put the topics to be discussed during the SF OSS meeting ?17:25
Sfiet_KonstantinI'm thinking of them, I'm sure that I missed some of them17:25
faenilSfiet_Konstantin, no I didn't17:25
Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: http://piratepad.net/SailfishOSSMeeting17:25
faeniloh :)17:25
faeniljust read your reply on ml17:26
Sfiet_Konstantinindeed it's important to focus on topic, however, which topic ?17:27
faenilI'll write there later ;)17:29
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Sfiet_Konstantinfaenil: don't forget :)17:29
Stskeepsfwiw, we're down for a long discussion if we focus on the closed component parts, the problem that ought to be solved is that of the collaboration on open components17:29
Stskeeps(imho)17:30
Sfiet_KonstantinStskeeps: ok17:30
Sfiet_Konstantinhowever, I think that, when SF is advertized as an open OS, it should be considered17:30
Stskeepsyes, but, scope :)17:30
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faenilpiratepad is down, cool17:31
* Stskeeps hides his ddos tools17:31
faenilhahah17:32
StskeepsSfiet_Konstantin: of course; but one problem at a time .. :)17:32
Stskeepsif you can't be open on what's open, it's not going to help anything to just open more source17:33
Sfiet_KonstantinStskeeps: understood, I just wrote down that line because this is tickling me from the beginning17:33
Stskeepsnod17:33
qwazixhttps://github.com/qwazix/glacier-apps17:36
qwazixfork away17:36
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qwazixhttp://qwazix.github.io/nemomobile.github.com/#navigation <-- please comment if you agree with this kind of navigation paradigm or not, and why18:07
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Morpog_PCnot sure if the swipe from left to navigate back would work that well in real life situation18:12
Morpog_PCis this killing the back button?18:14
Morpog_PCor optional?18:14
qwazixMorpog_PC, it's killing the back button18:19
qwazixnobody liked the back button in the upper corner and wazd proposed this solution18:19
qwazixat first I didn't like it at all but the fact that when on the main screen of the app it goes to the home screen convinced me18:20
Morpog_PCcould work or not :)18:20
qwazixalso, we can leave a small column of the previous page visible on the left edge to hint people18:20
qwazixsec18:21
Morpog_PCpeople coming from other os than harmattan and sailfishos are most times confused about swipe actions from outside18:21
qwazixsomething like this http://play.qwazix.com/shared/app-page-stack.png18:23
qwazixnowadays all OS'es use them. Android uses them on the lockscreen (to launch the camera), iOS for the control center, windows 8 uses them extensively, WP8 introduced them at v8.118:24
qwazixpeople are already getting used to it I think18:25
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Morpog_PCqwazix the stack idea is nice, but eats screen estate18:33
Morpog_PCwhy not doing it only in the header? a bit like the sailfishos dots18:34
qwazixMorpog_PC, it doesn't eat. It's just a design inside the margin we already have18:34
qwazixI have to make a more proper mockup of that18:35
Morpog_PCbut what if tehre are 5 or more pages?18:36
qwazixthen we should stick to a standard image that means 4+18:36
qwazixno point in tracking more than 4 pages deep18:37
Morpog_PCvalid point18:37
qwazixnot to mention that such deep navigation should be discouraged by the guidelines18:38
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sledgesamazing progress fellows!19:02
* sledges is breaking cars atm :) nice to catch up on backlog19:03
Morpog_PCno one of you should start this addicting browser game i'm addicted to since 2 weeks :D19:03
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faenilback :) Morpog_PC what game is it19:09
Morpog_PCcoockie clicker :D19:11
Morpog_PCdon't start it faenil ;)19:11
Morpog_PCat first you think what the hell, how boring is that and how senseless19:11
Morpog_PCbut soon.....19:12
faenil:D19:12
faenilI've been playing Path of Exile with friends recently19:12
faenilif there's any hack'n'slash RPG lover here, please join :D19:12
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stephgevening20:33
faenilevening20:34
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stephgso lipstick has me confused20:43
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stephgtrying to start it manually so I can do so via gdb and get traces for the new homescreen and the segfaults20:43
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stephgI see in the lipstick.service there's a relevant EnvironmentFile20:44
faenilyes20:44
stephgbut when I source or export those variables20:44
stephgthe thing still won't launch20:44
faenilif you're on ssh remember the env is different20:44
faenilbtw I'm watching a movie, bbl :)20:44
stephghehe20:44
stephgrun!20:44
faenilnah :)20:45
faenilwhat error do you have btw20:45
stephgnot at that pc but iirc it's trying the wrong plugin20:45
stephgtrying to use xcb or xsomethingsomething20:46
faenilyou'er probably missing variables from /var/lib/environment20:46
stephgso I export them exactly as they are in the lipstick.service but still no dice20:46
faenilthe systemd user session has more variables defined, which you need20:46
stephgah20:46
faenilno, not only those20:46
stephgok20:46
stephgthat would make more sense20:46
faenillook into that dir ;)20:46
* stephg goes to get the n9 from next door20:46
faenilnow, bbl :)20:47
faenileheh20:47
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stephggetting somewhere21:07
stephgwhat's the wayland analogue for localhost:0 ?21:07
stephgnevermind, think I found it: WAYLAND_DISPLAY sound reasonable?21:09
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