Wednesday, 2014-10-08

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faenilgood morning o/07:35
faenilrozhkov_: it doesn't build with startupcache on, because it's missing libjpeg6207:38
faenildo you want me to try make it build? or is that option really not needed by nemo?07:38
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rozhkov_faenil: this option has been introduced in gecko33 and I remember there were other problems apart from libjpeg. It can stay disabled for now.08:00
faenilrozhkov_: ok, so I'll just leave the PR like it is?08:01
rozhkov_yep, looks good to me :)08:01
faenilvakkov: ping, did you fix the m4sugar error in the end?08:02
faenilrozhkov_: ok cool :) do you have to wait for upstream to merge it first?08:02
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rozhkov_faenil: I don't have to, but that's my behavioral pattern :) This particular upstream is quite responsive though08:06
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faenilrozhkov_: ok ;)08:22
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faenilfor those who're interested, here's where qtwebkit gets stuck (while trying to build locally, this problem doesn't seem to exist on OBS)08:48
faenilhttp://pastie.org/963057508:48
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faenilcannot open `/usr/share/bison/m4sugar/m4sugar.m4'08:48
faenilbut the file is actually there08:48
Stskeepsinstall m4 in sdk08:48
Stskeepsnot target08:48
Stskeepssame goes for bison08:49
faenilStskeeps: so the spec is missing a require? I haven't installed it anywhere :)08:49
Stskeepsno08:49
Stskeepsjust that mer sdk is not ~= what it accelerates all the time08:49
faenilwhat it accelerates?08:50
Stskeepsbison/m4/toolchain/etc08:50
faenilok08:51
faenilso there's no way to enforce the installation of those tools when building qtwebkit (to make it easier for the next person)08:51
faenilbtw, m4 was installed in sdk, bison wasn't... #justforthelog08:52
Stskeepsnod08:52
faenilok it builds, cool08:54
faenilStskeeps: so, BuildRequires installs the tools in the target, but this this bison was running on host?08:59
faenilthis time*08:59
locusfso qtwebkit is last?09:01
Stskeepsyes09:01
Stskeeps(faenil:)09:01
locusfnice09:01
faenillocusf: yep, unless xulrunner and qtwebkit unlock new failures09:02
locusfwhen will the copypac to other architectures happen?09:02
Stskeepsshould happen automatically09:02
locusffaenil: indeed09:02
locusfok09:02
faenilnow let's just wait an hour and see if webkit builds, lol09:04
faeniltime to get back to the thesis09:04
locusfyeah09:04
locusfI was thinking about being on the nemo stand at fosdem09:05
faenillocusf: I'd love to partecipate! it would cool to meet and hack there!09:05
locusffaenil: yep :)09:06
faenillet's see :)09:06
faenil45€ return flight atm, that's doable :)09:09
locusfnice09:12
SK_workfaenil: :D one hour :)09:12
SK_workthanks faenil :):)09:12
locusfI wanna save my tax returns to cover the flights09:12
SK_workit is good to see you back :)09:12
faenilSK_work: I should actually disappear if I don't want to risk postponing my thesis to March XD09:13
faeniloh btw, a bit of OT09:14
faenilthp: kimmoli I should receive 50mt cat5E double shielded cable today :D09:14
Stskeeps(don't you mean tbr?)09:15
tbryes he does09:15
faeniloops tbr I meant ^09:15
faenilhehe, didn't notice ,thanks09:15
faeniltbr: so using *any* of the pairs in that cable should be enough, right?09:16
faenilor are the pairs different?09:16
tbrfaenil: correct09:17
faeniltbr: ok cool...btw 15€ shipped...that's quite cheap, also considering the double shield09:17
tbras a start use the full cable length, just curl it up on one end09:17
faenil20mt of curl? :D ok09:18
tbrwith proper cable that shouldn't matter09:18
tbrand you might need it once you put it proper09:18
faenilI just hope the technician will put the mass wire where it's supposed to be...09:18
faeniltbr: oh I'm not going to do the stairs thing though, I'm passing it through the tubes09:19
tbraaah, so you found that? great09:21
faeniltbr: yeah I bought the special wire yesterday (don't know the english name for it) which showed the path :)09:22
faenilit's a stupid plastic narrow tube and it's 3x the price of a cat5e cable -.-09:22
tbryeah, I have that thing too09:22
faenillet's call the ISP so they can send a technician in the next few days09:23
dr_gogeta86corrugate faenil ?09:23
faenildr_gogeta86: just desperately trying to get rid of my adsl issues, since the ISP sent a technician 4 times and he didn't know what to try, he said there were no issues09:24
tbrfaenil: all you need them for is the hookup in the basement?09:24
faeniltbr: yep09:24
tbr*nod*09:24
tbryou'll have an awesome line to the basement, hopefully that was your source of problems and you'll get a great line09:25
faeniltbr: yeah, let's hope so...09:26
tbrif not, you'll have to progress to changing pairs between building and the exchange point09:27
tbrstill having a great line to the basement is very important09:27
tbryou get rid of all the transient errors09:27
tbrlike someone along the way turning on their CFL or washing machine09:27
faeniltbr: yeah...the problem being I can't touch the cables between the building and the exchange point, they're ISP's09:30
tbrsure, that's what you need the ISP technician for.09:31
tbrbut first see if the in hous cabling helps09:31
faenilthey're not going to change the cables for me ;) he hasn't done it so far, why would he09:31
tbrno, but they have dozens if not hundreds of pairs to the building09:31
tbrswitching the line to a different pair is standard fault management procedure09:32
tbrif it's adjacent line interference09:32
faenilhe said he changed the "primary line", which I guess it's what you're talking about, twice09:32
tbrok :(09:32
tbrlet's hope it's the in building part that sucks, then09:32
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faenillet's just hope it's that, yeah :D09:33
tbrthat means though that they are at least trying, which is nice of them09:33
faeniltbr: any way I can check if the shield is working?09:33
tbrshoot it with a 9mm? ;)09:34
faenilhaha09:34
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faenilyou know, I really don't trust the technicians :D09:34
Stskeepsget an internship as a tiscali technician and fix it yourself?09:35
faenilhaha :D09:35
faenilwhat hw is the OBS running on?09:40
Stskeepscan't recall.. lbt?09:41
Stskeepssimilar-ish09:41
faenilok, strange, it seems to be sensibly faster (comparing partial build times)09:41
* lbt sees shield ... they're not arduinos, I can tell you that much09:41
faenillbt: lol09:41
Stskeepsfaenil: they run in kvms on tmpfs09:42
faenilokay09:42
lbtyes - lots of RAM stuff makes builds super quick09:42
lbtovercommitted too nowadays09:42
lbtcpu is 8-core but I think single CPU09:42
faenil8 core or 8 threads09:42
lbtyeah09:43
lbtdo you really need to know ?09:43
faenilnono ;)09:43
lbtie do you want to buy HW09:43
lbtOK :)09:43
faeniljust curious :)09:43
lbt2-3 year old Hetzner hosts. Don't have the specs now09:44
lbtmodel name      : Intel(R) Core(TM) i7 CPU         920  @ 2.67GHz09:45
lbtand similar09:45
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faenilok, ok :)09:45
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faenilthanks09:45
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faeniltbr: want to hear latest news?10:23
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faeniloops lol10:23
faenilI'll take that as a no XD10:23
SK_work:D10:24
SK_workfaenil: webkit building atm ?10:24
kimmolifaenil: late ack10:24
faenilOH YES BABY, qtwebkit5 build succeeded!10:24
faenilwoohoo10:24
SK_workawesome :)10:25
faenilnow just waiting for the ok from upstream and rozhkov_, and we should be done! \o/10:27
faenilyay https://github.com/mer-packages/qtwebkit5/pull/2110:32
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faenilveskuh: maybe you can review https://github.com/mer-packages/qtwebkit5/pull/21 ? :) 1 line commit :p10:42
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veskuhfaenil, should be fine but still better that VDVsx checks that accounts, email, etc. will work with that.10:58
veskuhnah, its fine.11:00
faenil:)11:00
VDVsxwas - and now is also - for us since no x11, seems safe11:01
faenilyay11:01
faeniljust a bit unsure that's the ideal way to do it, so I'll wait for some advice on that before merging11:02
faenil(actually I can't merge)11:02
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zbenjaminhey guys where can i get the flasher from nowadays?11:25
zbenjaminand a n9 firmware image ... oO the servers are gone11:33
zbenjaminfaenil: ^11:33
SK_workzbenjamin: http://mirror.thecust.net/11:34
SK_workzbenjamin: not sure if everything is here11:35
zbenjaminSK_work: hm are there the original firmware images too?11:36
SK_workzbenjamin: maybe11:36
SK_workdon't know11:36
SK_workneed to search tmo11:36
SK_workone sec11:36
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faenilzbenjamin: don't remember, I remember there are a couple of mirrors though11:37
zbenjaminfaenil: ok, i needed to send in my jolla and need a device for the wait11:37
zbenjaminfaenil: found this but i don't know if that is a reliable source http://www.mrcrab.net/nokia/Nokia_N9.html?productID=4823499691&productType=RM-696&releaseID=7048842309&version=40.2012.21.311:38
zbenjaminbut it seems to directly link to the nokia servers11:39
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faenilzbenjamin: yeah...12:02
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AdrianoCampos#MauiProject12:11
faenilAdrianoCampos: ? :)12:12
Stskeepsfaenil: locusf: SK_work: succeed 582, failed 1, unresolvable 212:15
Stskeepsgood work12:15
SK_workStskeeps: which one failing ?12:15
faenil\o/12:15
StskeepsSK_work: xulrunner12:15
faenilxulrunner, waiting for upstream to merge ;)12:15
Stskeepsfaenil's on it12:15
SK_workfaenil: :)12:15
SK_workcool12:15
SK_workis upstream rozhkov_12:15
SK_work?12:15
Stskeepsat this point you guys should start looking into what is missing from nemo:mw in there that you'd need to overlay as glacier12:15
faenilno, he's nemo, upstream is tmeshkova12:15
faenilStskeeps: which means: build all nemo apps and see what fails? xD12:17
Stskeepspretty much12:18
Stskeepsplus components12:18
faenilsure12:18
Stskeepsthere's still armv7hl breakages12:18
faenilI don't know what is supposed to be there though, except what's needed by the apps12:18
Stskeepsyou'll find out pretty quickly12:18
Stskeepsdoing a rebuild -f of mer-core:armv7hl:devel12:19
faenilokay, the world is going to explode in 5..4....3....2...1...12:20
bencohyay flesh and blood all over12:20
Stskeepsso a few of https://build.merproject.org/project/monitor/mer-core:armv7hl:devel?arch_armv8el=1&defaults=0&failed=1&repo_Core_armv7hl=1 is stuff i need to poke (sb2-tools related)12:25
faenilok12:26
faenilmany "error while loading shared libraries: libQt5Xml.so.5: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory" around12:27
faenilor libQt5Core.so12:28
Stskeepsyes12:28
faenilStskeeps: you can stop xulrunner, which is building now12:29
faenilsince it should fail anyway12:29
faenil(and it takes longer than qtwebkit to build)12:30
Stskeepsit'll die in a moment anywy..12:31
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faenilfilippz: sorry if I ask again, so, kernel 3.5 kind of works on n9 right? we just need a working nemo on top12:35
filippzfaenil: yes - it works OK (I've been playing with Sailfish OS - there is a problem with latest lipstick - orientation is broken)12:37
faenilgreat :)12:37
faenilyeah I saw you wrote a pdf about it12:37
faenil(haven't read it yet though)12:37
filippzon nemo latest lipstick was unbildable (AFAIK there was missing glib or something to that effect)12:38
faenilyeah not an issue, we'll get to that later12:38
faenilonce nemo-mer merge progresses12:38
filippzwho knows wheter that problem will be on nemo also12:38
faenilhehe12:38
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faenilI'm looking forward to getting to that level, it seems it will still take some time though ;(12:41
faenil;)12:41
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SK_workfaenil: weired that it is qdoc related12:42
SK_workmissing Qt5Xml12:42
faenilare those the sb2-tools related errors Stskeeps ?12:43
Stskeepsyes12:43
Stskeepsworking on it12:43
faenilSK_work: ^ ding! :D12:43
SK_work:)12:43
faenilStskeeps: great, thanks!12:43
faenilbbl12:44
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locusfoh we probably need to change the build target of nemo:devel:ux to the latest mer+nemo repository13:16
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Stskeepsnod13:18
Stskeepswait for armv7hl to rebuild imho13:18
locusfyep13:18
locusfmaybe tomorrow13:22
SK_workwill it build for sure ?13:26
Stskeepsjust add another repo13:27
locusfyeah should be as simple as that13:28
locusfif we keep nemo:devel:ux as glacier project13:28
locusfbut there is the components package which is in nemo:devel:mw13:28
SK_worklocusf: I think we should pull it out of components and push in ux13:29
SK_workhum13:29
SK_workmaybe13:29
SK_worklocusf: which components package ? qqcn ?13:29
locusfhttps://build.merproject.org/package/show/nemo:devel:mw/qtquickcontrols-nemo13:32
locusf3 yeah13:32
SK_worklocusf: I think QQCN should be pull out of nemo and go to nemo ux13:32
locusfSK_work: ok will do when I have maintainer rights to them13:33
SK_worklocusf: thanks :)13:34
zbenjaminhmm if i flash the emmc and firmware image from here: http://www.mrcrab.net/nokia/Nokia_N9.html?productID=4823499691&productType=RM-696&releaseID=7048842309&variantID=7076942645&productCode=059K0Z2&version=40.2012.21.3  will that reset the device to factory state?13:37
zbenjamini cannot find a moslo image to remove the alt partition13:38
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SK_workzbenjamin: I do think so13:40
SK_worknot sure13:40
SK_workzbenjamin: ever asked on #harmattan btw ?13:41
zbenjaminSK_work: well then i will find out i guess ;)13:41
zbenjaminSK_work: nop13:41
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zbenjaminSK_work: i asked there, lets see if someone responds13:44
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locusfStskeeps: do you know who maintains nemo:devel:ux at the moment?13:59
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faenillocusf: https://build.merproject.org/project/users/nemo:devel:ux14:47
faenilw00t and Sage14:47
locusffaenil: ah thanks14:48
faenilhttps://twitter.com/faenil/status/51986185721809305814:48
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faenilStskeeps: you said it would fail fast? lol https://build.merproject.org/package/live_build_log/mer-core:armv7hl:devel/xulrunner-qt5/Core_armv7hl/armv8el14:55
faenil4111secs :D14:55
locusffaenil: Sage is also in twitter afaik14:56
faenillocusf: yeah but he's usually very busy14:57
faenilwith top-secret jolla plans :D14:57
locusffaenil: sure he really is :)14:57
SK_work4111s is nice14:59
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locusfoh w00t doesn't know how give maintainer roles16:53
SK_worklocusf: that's not hard :/16:55
SK_workgo to users > select faenil, and select maintainer :/16:55
locusfI guess not16:55
locusfhmm16:55
locusfSK_work: you might wanna holler at him in twitter thoguh or should I?16:56
SK_worklocusf: well I said this, but I'm clearly not sure :(16:57
SK_workmaybe give him a hint at looking at the users tab :) ?16:57
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locusfSK_work: okay :)16:58
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Sage_faenil: did you get that already?18:20
Sage_well now you do ;)18:20
locusfSage_: what about me? :)18:21
Sage_done18:24
locusfthanks :)18:25
* Morpog_PC__ fears all the power locusf and faenil now got :D18:25
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locusfqqcn is now branched to nemo:devel:ux repo from nemo:devel:mw to adjust to webhooks18:30
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faenillol18:38
faenilthanks Sage_ ! I hope you're fine! You're basically like a ghost since last year :D18:38
faenilMorpog_PC__: YOU SHALL DIIIIIE18:41
StskeepsO_o18:41
Morpog_PC__:D18:42
faenilyay, xulrunner fixes have been merged upstream, we'll hopefully get them merged on nemo repo as well tomorrow :)18:43
locusffaenil: anf that will finally fix things, hopefully? :)18:43
locusf*and18:43
faenillocusf: yeah! on i486! hehe18:43
locusflol18:43
faenilthen many bad things will happen on other archs :D18:44
faenilrozhkov_: oh I see you've merged them already on embedlite_31!18:46
faenilshould I use that branch for nemo? or wait for 33?18:46
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locusftheres 9 xulrunner builds happening now, wow18:50
Stskeepswell18:50
locusfthats gonna take a while now then18:50
Stskeepsthere's a rebuild going on, on all the ports18:50
locusfyep18:50
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faenilholy s*** :D18:56
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WikiwideHello! I am trying to re-flash N950 per instructions here: https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Nemo/Installing#Single_boot.2Floading19:51
WikiwideHowever, both sudo umount /dev/sdb and sudo umount /media/Alt_OS fail with "not mounted"19:53
WikiwideAnd then, instead of booting, the green letters say: "No MeeGo kernel image found"19:53
WikiwideAnd accordingly, powers off after 5 4 3 2 1 0 count.19:54
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faenilWikiwide: I've always used ubiboot myself ;/19:55
faenilnever tried the singleboot method19:55
WikiwideMulti-boot sounds attractive, but more complicated ;/19:56
WikiwideAlright, it is possible that 'on the first go' flasher did not flash the kernel correctly19:57
Wikiwide6 kB/s does not sound right19:57
faenildon't remember19:58
faenilhttp://www.swagman.org/juice/ubiboot/README  <--- follow the RECOMMENDED path, and you'll be good :D19:59
WikiwideStill the same! What's happening?20:03
faenildunno :/ could be expected? Don't know how reliable that single-boot method is20:04
faenilI think locusf used that a while ago though20:04
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WikiwideIt used to be reliable ;/20:05
WikiwideThird time is the charm... This time, I am insisting on mounting Alt_OS manually, even though it pretends to have mounted automatically20:10
faenil:)20:10
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WikiwideLipstick started! Nemo blue screen passed... Green letters passed...20:13
WikiwideHooray! Thank you! :D20:14
WikiwideHow is it going with migration to Qt5.2, I wonder?..20:14
faenilWikiwide: haha20:16
faenilWikiwide: well, Jolla is fighitng hard against its bugs it seems20:17
Wikiwide:)20:17
faenilthey're at the 11th RC for the last update20:17
faenilso I guess Qt5.2, which is the biggest change, brought a lot of new issues :)20:17
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WikiwideI hope that when dependency hell of Nemo Mobile is resolved, a new image will be posted :) I cannot test new software if I cannot install it...20:18
WikiwideAnd currently, the latest image is 2014-02.20:19
WikiwideThank you! Good bye!20:19
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gogetahi guys20:20
gogetafaenil, you are an hero20:20
faenilgogeta: no way, I don't want to hear that, I'm just cleaning the floor on the ship!20:21
M4rtinKI'll sure test the next image once it is available :)20:26
gogetahttp://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130728224205/villains/images/e/e4/Nautilus-Class123.jpg20:27
M4rtinKBTW, any idea where is qwazix ? I kinda think I haven't seen him for a while20:27
gogetasomething like this20:27
gogetatwo weeks ago on irc20:27
crevetorHi guys !20:28
faenilM4rtinK: next image will be in*months* imho20:28
faenilcrevetor: hey!20:29
faenilM4rtinK: he's always busy with job, I guess20:29
M4rtinKok :)20:29
crevetorI'd like to fork https://github.com/nemomobile/buteo-sync-plugins-social in order to try to fix https://together.jolla.com/question/39236/bug-google-calendar-events-off-by-12-hours/ is there a guide somewhere on how to get started doing that ?20:31
crevetorI think this https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Nemo/Development is it. Am I right ?20:32
faenilcrevetor: not sure how up to date that is, but the process goes like this:20:33
faenilyou fork it on github, you mod it, send a pull request when you're done20:33
faenilto do local builds you use "mb2" on a MerSDK, using an armv7hl target20:34
crevetorOk that's what I was wondering20:34
crevetorthanks20:34
faenilno problem20:34
faenilyou can also use sailfishsdk of course20:35
faenil(I haven't tried that myself though)20:35
crevetorI'll use mb2, it should compile faster ;)20:35
faenilwell, I guess sailfishsdk uses mb2 as well20:41
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crevetorwhen I do an mb2 build it complains that it's missing its build dependencies but doesn't install them. How do I fix that ?21:20
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faenilcrevetor: you add BuildRequires to the .spec file21:28
faenilit is says "nothing provides"21:28
faenilthen try refreshing the repos cache21:28
faenilwith zypper refresh21:28
faenilif it says*21:28
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OksanaKaIRC: are you here?22:38
KaIRCOksana: yes, I am22:39
KaIRCwhat's up?22:39
OksanaI wanted to ask, why Mozilla donated N900s to Neo900? It does not seem like Mozilla-related project?22:39
OksanaUnless they will get Firefox OS to run on N900/Neo900?22:40
OksanaCurious :) https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=70178422:40
MerbotMozilla bug 701784 in Other "figure out what to do with the n900s" [Normal,New]22:40
KaIRCOksana: mostly just because we had those old N900s lying around from back when we did actually run automated tests for Fennec (old mobile Firefox) for Maemo, and we didn't want to throw them away if someone would still be able to use them22:42
OksanaSo, they were the only ones able to take them en masse ?22:42
M4rtinKheh22:42
M4rtinK"We have a total of 84 devices"22:42
KaIRCOksana: and I read about Neo900 (and met some people at FOSDEM) and said in the bug that we should give the left-over old devices to them as they are doing open hardware stuff with it and that's in our line philosophically :)22:43
M4rtinKinteresting little tidbit indeed :)22:43
KaIRCthat is, after asking the Neo900 folks if they could need them ;-)22:43
OksanaYes :) http://infobot.rikers.org/%23neo900/20131103.html.gz22:44
KaIRCOksana: exactly that snippet :)22:45
M4rtinKI find it quite funny that the N900 (~2009) has more RAM than the latest FirefoxOS smartphone that was just released in India :)22:45
M4rtinKthe thraget group is widely different, but still, 5 years :)22:45
KaIRCtook long enough after all to get that to a closure but I think it's finally getting done22:46
KaIRCM4rtinK: yes, it appears that RAM prices still matter if you do real mass-production (and that's what Spreadtrum does there - they do the full board integrated with the software as a turn-key solution and multiple "phone makers" just put a nice case and screen around it22:48
M4rtinKnow when I think about it, my Neo FreeRunner also has 128 MB of RAM :)22:49
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KaIRCM4rtinK: so you're in the same boat as those users in India that are running Firefox OS with a full modern browser stack on that size (which is IMHO a bit crazy, but perf is not very enlightening anyhow)22:51
KaIRCto be fair, we're using some RAM compression there, I think zram22:51
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M4rtinKsure, but that it can get you just so far :)22:59
M4rtinKbut zram itself is nice :)22:59
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M4rtinKI'm using it on quite a few devices already (on my Jolla, the N9 has it by default, on my computer at work and we have it at one of our virtualization servers at work)23:01
M4rtinKand we recently added it to the Fedora installer environment so that people can install with less RAM :)23:01
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qwazixM4rtinK: alive and kicking! Just a tad busy23:29
M4rtinKqwazix: glad you are fine :)23:30
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qwazixM4rtinK: how are things on your side?23:37
M4rtinKM4rtinK: still a bit busy, but it is always like that :)23:39
M4rtinKqwazix: ^^23:39
qwazixyeah, always. I've learnt to love it though.23:39
M4rtinKI've also finally managed to do new modRana release & my talk about modRana got accepted to a local Linux/open-tech conference :)23:40
M4rtinKqwazix: yeah, it is all just so interesting, but so much to do and so little time :)23:41
qwazixOh, nice :) I've been spending some time learning blender and CGI so my mobile related work has slowrd down23:41
M4rtinKI've also tried if I can run current modRana on current Nemo, but the system was too broken to do anything :)23:41
M4rtinKinteresting, that can be handy for your design work :)23:42
qwazixtrue that, I've already filled a drawer with new gadgets that I haven't really found the time to play with23:42
qwazix(that was about the 'how little time' comment)23:43
qwazixyes, (re: design work) i've realised that doing 3d opens possibilities in 2d design too23:43
M4rtinKwell, I've tried that too long ago23:48
M4rtinKbut decided it is too much fiddling for little gain :)23:48
M4rtinKso I'm rather trying to get better with normal pencil and paper :)23:49
qwazixyeah probably most of the time. It's just that you add a few things to your 'I know how I can achieve that effect' list23:50
M4rtinKit is also much more portable than current digital art stuff (either 2D or 3D) :)23:50
M4rtinKsure :)23:51
qwazixtrue, but you can't ship icons with p&p23:51
M4rtinKwell, that would be rather innovative :)23:51
qwazixeven then, there's postprocessing to be done23:52
M4rtinKwell, I'll have to learn a bit about 3D modeling anyway due to 3D printing :)23:52
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qwazixnice idea though, would be a first, a completely handdrawn UI23:53
M4rtinKyou need to know that to make your own models or to change the existing ones23:53
M4rtinKwell they told us in the HCI class that information systems don't really need computers at all :)23:53
qwazixyeah, and one thing that I learnt by fiddling with blender was that what I thought was the obvious way to model sth, almost always was the hardest one23:54
M4rtinKand they provided the information system (information tables, orientation arrows, etc.) at the local ZOO one of them did as an example :)23:54
M4rtinKhh23:55
M4rtinKBTW, OpenSCAD has a nice idea for 3D modeling: http://www.openscad.org/23:55
M4rtinKat least for people used to programming :)23:55
M4rtinKmost 3D printer prats are designed as OpenSCAD models, sou you can submit pull-requests on them :)23:56
M4rtinK*parts23:56
qwazixNice, I always thought that you should be able to edit underlying code of WYSIWYG apps for when things become tough23:57
qwazixthat's the reason I like svg23:57
qwazixnot actual programming, but at least it's text based23:58

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